Diedhiou contract

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I’d quite like that to happen. If it means more game time for Walsh/Morrell/Bakinson then I’d be all for it.

I like Nagy but a decision has to be made as to whether he is in the manager's plans and, if not, he needs to be moved on. Having young players like Massengo, Bakinson and Morrell as part of the squad pushing for first team chances is healthy but having a 25 year old international doing it is not, especially as there is a major tournament at the end of the year. Nagy is going to want to be playing regularly and it's surely going to affect the team dynamic if younger players are pushing in ahead of  him. I'd like him to stay and be one of six players pushing for three places in our midfield but, if that's not how Holden sees it, it is better that he is moved on.

[Coxy27]

1 hour ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Whilst I agree with you that those 4 strikers will not get us promotion, the Nketiah bit is not true. Only scored 3 league goals for Leeds

Did he bang those three in though? 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Great if it works out and you (not "you" but people generally) are prepared to accept a year or 2 of them establishing themselves at this level and aren't demanding promotion with them playing more games. 

I don’t think Nagy is going to be the difference between us getting promotion or not personally. 

Not quite the same as advocating Kalas making way for Zak Vyner.

[Phileas Fogg]

17 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Isn't Wells a proven goalscorer at this level?

Get him playing to his best with a suitable partner. Maybe Weimann, maybe Martin. Then why couldn't that fire us into prem?

For Huddersfield he played nearly every game when they got promoted.

Does anyone really need 4 quality strikers? If Semenyo is much improved this season then maybe he's fine as 4th choice. 

We don’t know whether Semenyo is ready yet it’s far too early to judge. It would be a risk to have 4 forwards I think.

If Diedhiou goes I hope we look to bring in another - but someone pacey and direct not a like for like stylistic replacement. 

[Lenners]

58 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Isn't Wells a proven goalscorer at this level?

Get him playing to his best with a suitable partner. Maybe Weimann, maybe Martin. Then why couldn't that fire us into prem?

For Huddersfield he played nearly every game when they got promoted.

Does anyone really need 4 quality strikers? If Semenyo is much improved this season then maybe he's fine as 4th choice. 

When has Wells ever scored 20 goals at this level? I think last season was his best scoring season.

[RedRoss]

27 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

When has Wells ever scored 20 goals at this level? I think last season was his best scoring season.

He scored 17 in 15/16  in the Champ which is very respectable.. he's hardly unproven like your suggesting and should be at his peak now.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

GMcG reporting City have not received any bids for Fam. 

[Bar BS3]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don’t think Nagy is going to be the difference between us getting promotion or not personally. 

Not quite the same as advocating Kalas making way for Zak Vyner.

No, but the point was more about its all well and food wanting unproven players given a chance, but expectations need to be realistic in line with doing that.

Hopefully they'll excel, but if they don't, then patience will be needed. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

4 hours ago, REDOXO said:

The aim is promotion! LJ was sacked because he didn’t get it. However Holden will be given a free hit this season if he keeps us competitive and up there.

We have tooooo many players. Thank You LJ! Some will have to leave. As forwards we have Wells Martin Weimann and Semenyo with Patterson playing a much more forward role. 

I think that Holden and Kalas have made it clear that they are expecting goals from all over the field. The constant referencing forwards as strikers, like a cheap cartoon, is part of the problem people have. Of course you want forwards to score goals but you need them from all over which has been our problem for years, not enough goal power in other areas, with one or two notable exception since 2010.

The forwards we have invite runners. Also Walsh has goals in him as I think Bakinson will. The style is changing  and the squad size will change with it.

I’m not sure the tiresome dig at Lee Johnson was justified.  You could argue that we have too many players because we’ve brought in five in the summer and only got rid of one first-teamers, possibly two.  I don’t think our squad was too big last season, if anything we were short of one or two quality players. 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

No, but the point was more about its all well and food wanting unproven players given a chance, but expectations need to be realistic in line with doing that.

Hopefully they'll excel, but if they don't, then patience will be needed. 

Walsh and Morrell are expected to be playing lots of games this season and Nagy hasn't impressed really so it's not the best comparison. 

Both are new to the first team at this level, but neither are youngsters in their fledgling seasons, they're not exactly unproven - just not that experienced at the level. You'd expect both, at this stage of their careers, to be establishing themselves in the first team squad. 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

33 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

No, but the point was more about its all well and food wanting unproven players given a chance, but expectations need to be realistic in line with doing that.

Hopefully they'll excel, but if they don't, then patience will be needed. 

Fat chance of that on here. One game in and some have already written off Vyner, Moore and Massengo as not good enough. 

[Swede]

On 09/09/2020 at 13:10, Prinny said:

I think the most likely scenarios in order are

1) He stays and runs out his deal.

2) We sell him now if he gets an acceptable offer.

3) He waits until the end of the season and we match whatever deal he gets somewhere else and he stays.

4) He signs a contract now.

We want him to stay, but being realistic we want him to go now rather than running out his deal, so that's why we're keeping Semenyo here until we know for sure.

I'm not really comfortable with our four strikers being Wells, Martin, Weimann, Semenyo though.

What we have to look at is the fact that he has reached the highest point he could have reached as far as a saleable asset is concerned.

The club are/will be looking at him and Eliasson as saleable assets to generate the necessary income to help fund the recent incomings to help balance the books.

IMO don't be surprised to see the club back in for Afobe.

Looking at your scenarios IMO

1) That won't happen as the club will generate a sale.

2) A likely outcome.

3) That won't happen as its too risky. He runs his contract down to go for nothing and we still have to try and pay bigger wages on top? Simply won't happen. 

4) He could do but he's going into the last year. Why stay put? He won't improve an already enhanced reputation here. His agent will naurally be saying he can get him a better deal elsewhere as he's a marketable asset (at the moment). 

[old_eastender]

1 hour ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

GMcG reporting City have not received any bids for Fam. 

No surprise to me if we are looking to get the £5.3m back we reportedly spend on him, can't see anyone paying it.

[Prinny]

17 minutes ago, Swede said:

What we have to look at is the fact that he has reached the highest point he could have reached as far as a saleable asset is concerned.

The club are/will be looking at him and Eliasson as saleable assets to generate the necessary income to help fund the recent incomings to help balance the books.

IMO don't be surprised to see the club back in for Afobe.

Looking at your scenarios IMO

1) That won't happen as the club will generate a sale.

2) A likely outcome.

3) That won't happen as its too risky. He runs his contract down to go for nothing and we still have to try and pay bigger wages on top? Simply won't happen. 

4) He could do but he's going into the last year. Why stay put? He won't improve an already enhanced reputation here. His agent will naurally be saying he can get him a better deal elsewhere as he's a marketable asset (at the moment). 

You have to look from his point of view. Multiple clubs are allegedly interested. He sits tight for a year, he gets some of the fee as a signing bonus and we don't. Obviously if they pay him a lot more then that's irrelevant.

We can't force him out, without selling him we can't really afford not to use him unless Semenyo is ready right now which we just don't know from a cameo.

"The club WILL generate a sale" What if he says "no"? He can just say no. 9 months left, not that long to wait. 3 months until he can start talking to foreign clubs unless that rule has changed. If a club is interested now, they'll be more interested in not having to pay a transfer fee for him, which means more money to him and a saving to them.

You have to really incentivize him to leave right now.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Prinny said:

You have to look from his point of view. Multiple clubs are allegedly interested. He sits tight for a year, he gets some of the fee as a signing bonus and we don't. Obviously if they pay him a lot more then that's irrelevant.

We can't force him out, without selling him we can't really afford not to use him unless Semenyo is ready right now which we just don't know from a cameo.

"The club WILL generate a sale" What if he says "no"? He can just say no. 9 months left, not that long to wait. 3 months until he can start talking to foreign clubs unless that rule has changed. If a club is interested now, they'll be more interested in not having to pay a transfer fee for him, which means more money to him and a saving to them.

You have to really incentivize him to leave right now.

1. We can if we think the Martin, Wells and Weimann are capable.  Semenyo need only be back-up.  He didn’t start when Afobe joined last season.

2. Or as I said in a previous response to you, that incentive is “move on or we’ll freeze you out”....his attractiveness after 9 months frozen out will be slightly tainted.  Those clubs are interested NOW, not next season too.  Things change.

In summary it’s a complicated scenario, but my opinion is he won’t be here if he won’t sign by the end of this window.

[REDOXO]

47 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I’m not sure the tiresome dig at Lee Johnson was justified.  You could argue that we have too many players because we’ve brought in five in the summer and only got rid of one first-teamers, possibly two.  I don’t think our squad was too big last season, if anything we were short of one or two quality players. 

Our squad was to big last season. Way to many choices and he lost his way, particularly in midfield, where we were ironically ridiculously light weight who ever played. (To your comment on what was missing. It was LJ pulling the trigger on signings) 

We had a lot of players In the middle that pretty much did the same thing  half a dozen five irons and no driver for the clubs in the bag analogy most of them brought in by LJ. 

At the beginning of last season we had injury problems which led to the side picking itself, ironically one of our best periods.
 

Toward the end of the season LJ ended up seating Wells on the bench and playing Afobi on the wing, replacing Moore with Benkovic that had little game time and not Bringing back Morell and Walsh preferring Henrickson who had no game time and little training  adding to a huge squad, do you think it wasn’t noticed up the food chain?

Benkovic Afobi and the Henrickson fella all gone back and we still have to trim ask Dean Holden he’s said it before bringing anyone in not me. 
 

The four coming in two/three of them are to add much need guts in our team. Brunt will not be bullied and nor will Martin or Moreson. This gives me hope that someone could see what most of us did. 
 

Lee Johnson bought in player after player and still relied on Korey Smith. 
 

The one thing I will say is, he was unlucky with a couple of injuries, including Kalas Afobi Nagy Smith and Desilva, which meant Williams the ones mentioned above and the awful Rohdri being bought in With Patterson coming back.
 

But when it mattered everyone was available we were a point outside the play offs and we looked awful. Afobi stumbling over his words regarding how LJ decided to play him was the last straw for me. Clueless. 
 

The reactions of Walsh And Taylor Moore among others when he was sacked told there own story. Players stating publicly that no one really knew how they were wanted to play was key. 

The new manager will assess the squad and try and off load a few Through sales and loans if he can, that is clear. We will see who goes and one or two may not be popular as in these times few are worth that much and cash flow is key, thus selling a decent asset in either a Morell or Walsh is a possibility, I guess we will see.
 

As for tiresome I think Steve Lansdown found the whole charade tiresome long before he fired LJ don’t you?

 

[Prinny]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

1. We can if we think the Martin, Wells and Weimann are capable.  Semenyo need only be back-up.  He didn’t start when Afobe joined last season.

2. Or as I said in a previous response to you, that incentive is “move on or we’ll freeze you out”....his attractiveness after 9 months frozen out will be slightly tainted.  Those clubs are interested NOW, not next season too.  Things change.

In summary it’s a complicated scenario, but my opinion is he won’t be here if he won’t sign by the end of this window.

He's striker number 2 or 3 right now. Freezing him out hurts us more than him IMO. It's only 9 months, it's less than a serious injury. Our bargaining position is not strong enough to freeze him out or threaten him IMO.

Things change you're right, more people might be in for him, unless there's a another pandemic global crisis, the economy will pick up. Works both ways. It's a gamble to go, stay, or sign financially. Can't say which is best without seeing the future or the contract details.

Semenyo needs to be able to play well at championship level. If he can't that leaves us with 3 capable strikers. That's not enough for a full season. I think it's a HUGE risk gambling on Semenyo. Because I haven't seen enough of him playing well vs playing poorly. And if you're Dean Holden, you'd probably want to use the asset to help yourself and the team, so why would he freeze him out past the end of the window? Depends who we could get as a replacement. But we won't be able to get a replacement if he goes unless we magic up a bargain. And we don't have money for a replacement until he goes, and every second he waits will drive up the replacements price. Eliasson is in the same situation, and I don't think we'll get much for Palmer once you factor in the wages.

I just think it depends on the details. Undoubtedly the club wish to sign or sell him. If the offers make sense for him, he can go, if they don't we can't do anything about it. He has the power here IMO. 9 months of being frozen out, which I don't think we'd do, because that hurts our team, and therefore Dean Holden, also means he won't get hurt which is one of the bigger risks in not signing a deal somewhere.

I see your points but I have the weight in his favour.

 

[GrahamC]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don’t think Nagy is going to be the difference between us getting promotion or not personally. 

Not quite the same as advocating Kalas making way for Zak Vyner.

The other big difference here is the number of alternatives.

At present with Baker injured we have 4 realistic options for 3 CB places, Kalas, Mawson, Moore & Vyner. Rowe could play there in an absolute emergency but he isn’t a centre back (he is a left sided midfielder who can do a job at LWB) & nor is Brunt, there is a good reason he has never played there in his 520 league appearances.

In midfield however Nagy is up against Williams, Walsh, Morrell, HNM, Brunt, Rowe, O’Dowda, Palmer, Paterson, Eliasson, Bakinson & Weimann as his competition for a place. So 13 for 3 spaces, many of us may see Weimann as more of a striker but so far Holden doesn’t & even if he does go back up front if Famara left, our midfield options are still ludicrously overloaded when compared to everywhere else.

At a bare minimum 2 of those listed need to go, my hunch is that Palmer & Nagy are the 2 but time will tell.

What will not happen is us keeping all 13 of them, this list doesn’t include Adelakun or Morton, either..

[Major Isewater]

Just a bit more info on the situation at Dijon . They have unconfirmed interest in their midfielder from certain Prem clubs but as the President of Dijon football club said  in a press conference yesterday ‘ there has been , no contact and no offers ‘ for Chouiar .

His transfer fee would be in the order of fifteen to twenty million euros , more than enough to buy and pay Diedhiou.

Maybe they’re waiting on this deal to go through before bringing in our player . 
 

Here’s the quote for all you cunning linguists.

’ "Aujourd’hui, il n'y a rien du tout concernant Mounir Chouiar, continue Olivier Delcourt. Nul n'est intransférable, après ce n'est pas du tout souhaité ni envisagé. Je n'ai aucun contact et aucune offre. Aucun contact et aucune offre". Alors vrai coup de gueule ou coup de bluff du président dans cette grande partie de poker menteur que représente le mercato ? ‘ 

 

[Major Isewater]

18 hours ago, JollyestOli said:

I’m pissing myself reading this thread.

That’ll be an age thing .

[Lenners]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

That’ll be an age thing .

You’ve split my sides

[Major Isewater]

15 minutes ago, JollyestOli said:

You’ve split my sides

Also an age thing .

[Kibs]

17 hours ago, JollyestOli said:

When has Wells ever scored 20 goals at this level? I think last season was his best scoring season.

Obviously fantastic to have a regular 20 goal a season striker but they are like gold dust at this level!!

Say there's what, 80-100 First team strikers in the Championship? How many strikers do actually manage 20 league goals in a Championship season? Normally only a few a season and I bet a few of their goals are penalty's. 

 

[David Brent]

20 hours ago, JollyestOli said:

I’m pissing myself reading this thread.

Fam goes and people think the other 4 striking options are enough to fire us to the PL?

The Leeds comparison was laughable, they create countless chances for their front man and they had Nketiah half the season banging them in from the bench too.

If Diedhiou goes for the average side that we looked Saturday we’ll need a quality striker to get us into the top six, otherwise forget about it.

“Banging them in” ....he scored 3

[RedRoss]

2 minutes ago, David Brent said:

“Banging them in” ....he scored 3

Woooo hang on! Don't let real facts get in the way obviously @JollyestOli has done his research!  

[downendcity]

5 minutes ago, David Brent said:

“Banging them in” ....he scored 3

If he played for us, scoring 3 would equate to banging them in!  

[TonyTonyTony]

9 hours ago, David Brent said:

“Banging them in” ....he scored 3

You just owned him as my son would say 

[Red Army 75]

Excellent account if my memory serves me correct. 

[Banjo Red]

If he wants to go don't play him, let Semenyo, Martin etc have a crack.

[Shtanley]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Could possibly be Fam and Martin tonight I reckon. Want to see Semenyo though. But I am interested to see how Fam and Martin would do. A target man alongside him might be his best type of partner.

They were tremendous away at PNE on Semenyo's debut. Not sure we've seen Semenyo and Fam play up top too many times since then.