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Whats the real Reason Holden was appointed?


Atticus

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27 minutes ago, Robbored said:

 

It makes no difference which level any club is at. Promotion from within can have distinct advantages, one of which the stability that SL desires.

It can. But it’s not a guarantee. Every appointment is a risk and our track record of internal promotion is far from great. 

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Bottom line is that DH said what those appointing wanted to hear. That made it the “easy” rather than necessarily the “cheap” option. That’s often how interviews go in many walks of life.

However when appointing a manager or Head Coach the CV is the critical part. What have you achieved elsewhere? Demonstrate where you have had real success, not just a few wins as a caretaker at this level. That was the bit that was lacking from the process.

The “5 pillars” may have gone but the club’s model remains very similar, and it’s not a guarantee of success.

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52 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The ‘boot room’ approach is a model that worked fantastically well at Liverpool back then. A model or approach is all it is but with DH getting promoted from within suggests a similar approach from City.

It makes no difference which level any club is at. Promotion from within can have distinct advantages, one of which the stability that SL desires.

No it doesn't! They key difference is the success. With the Liverpool model, the success made it justifiable. We are a middling Championship club, it's not a valid comparison at all. 

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4 hours ago, One Team said:

I don’t think there really is a ‘cheap’ option; he will still be on several hundred k a year. Cheaper than LJ perhaps, but he’s not doing it for free.

For me the one and only reason is that he is a “yes” man to Ashton and SL. 

Definitely probably a yes man. However what is big money. If he’s on say 400 K a year that’s nothing if we paid for a real manager at 800K a year and we were in the top 3 of the league week in and week out. The status quo of recent seasons would be a blast in the pass and we would all be on a high.

the point is the board put a manager in that was relatively cheap to gain some stability but the board decision shows that they have little minds and need to broaden their horizons.

its always a COYR ,s for me but this season I’m afraid is all over which is totally disappointing. 

Love to hear from the DH dreamers on this and they would probably blame injuries.. 

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Holden is the cheapest option not in terms of his own personal salary but the budget that he would be happy to work with. Of course he is a yes man aswell - like any other line of work when you are given your first big break you are willing to bend over backwards to firstly get the job and you normally carry on in that vein - football management is no different IMO.
 

Obviously he said all the right things in the interview aswell.. ‘’im happy to work within said budget’’ ‘’im also happy to bring through as many academy players as i can’’ etc etc.. the bloke knows full well what the club and the board wants going forward and he played right up to it to get the job.

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We couldn’t have someone come in and disrupt the Bristol City cosy club. We needed someone happy to work within the structure / empire established by the CEO / Director of Football / Head of Recruitment. A “yes” man appointed by said CEO / Director of Football / Head of Recruitment to go with all the other “yes” men / women in senior roles at the club who have been appointed during his tenure. That way no one will dare question the CEO / Director of Football / Head of Recruitment. 

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Why was he appointed?

  • Because no manager worth their salt would work under Ashton
  • Because appointing someone from the outside would've cost more in transfer fees
  • Because of the "direction of travel" he wants us to go in
  • Because he was "the outstanding human"

But don't worry, he wasn't appointed because of the financial effects of the pandemic and the PL is the goal. Cough cough. 

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in summary, and other posters have said the same, he interviewed the best***.

Of course with that you could question whether the interviewers were up to the job.

I had no problem with Holden’s appointment, but I don’t think anyone could come out and say we did a global search and DH was the best choice.  That’s just MA spin.  Would’ve been much better to say something along the lines of there were others out there with more experience, etc, but their job demands were too high, or they didn’t match the ethos, or whatever else.

The bit I can never get my head around is that the process went along the lines of:

- application

- filter

- initial chat / mini interview with 10+

- more interviews with 3 or 4

- appointment

At what point was Hughton unprepared because if he was, why didn’t they filter him out after the first chat?

I can certainly imagine Hughton thinking this isn’t the club for him.

(*** gave the answers the interviewers liked)

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

in summary, and other posters have said the same, he interviewed the best***.

Of course with that you could question whether the interviewers were up to the job.

I had no problem with Holden’s appointment, but I don’t think anyone could come out and say we did a global search and DH was the best choice.  That’s just MA spin.  Would’ve been much better to say something along the lines of there were others out there with more experience, etc, but their job demands were too high, or they didn’t match the ethos, or whatever else.

The bit I can never get my head around is that the process went along the lines of:

- application

- filter

- initial chat / mini interview with 10+

- more interviews with 3 or 4

- appointment

At what point was Hughton unprepared because if he was, why didn’t they filter him out after the first chat?

I can certainly imagine Hughton thinking this isn’t the club for him.

(*** gave the answers the interviewers liked)

We don’t know the Hughton bit is even true though, do we?

It is really easy these days to leak this sort of stuff afterwards to a journalist & it then becomes “fact”, this government literally currently does this on a daily basis.

Hughton may or may not have been the right choice but what is obvious is the decision made wasn’t made on track record or achievement, but a set of criteria which appear to be unique and let’s be honest, didn’t remotely stand up to serious scrutiny at the press conference when Holden was appointed.

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What some posters are overlooking is the guidelines set down my SL. Namely promotion but having to sell your better players pretty much every window and not many, if any experienced managers would be prepared to adhere to them - that’s what happened to SC who got the job but eventually reneged having agreed at interview to follow SLs strategy.

DH would have been 100% aware of what the job entailed having worked as LJs assistant and seen first half what expected and that clearly gave him a huge advantage at interview - along with the stability that SL wants.

 

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36 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

We don’t know the Hughton bit is even true though, do we?

It is really easy these days to leak this sort of stuff afterwards to a journalist & it then becomes “fact”, this government literally currently does this on a daily basis.

Hughton may or may not have been the right choice but what is obvious is the decision made wasn’t made on track record or achievement, but a set of criteria which appear to be unique and let’s be honest, didn’t remotely stand up to serious scrutiny at the press conference when Holden was appointed.

No, I was poo-poohing that notion, by saying if he was really unprepared why didn’t we filter him out earlier.

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23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

in summary, and other posters have said the same, he interviewed the best***.

Of course with that you could question whether the interviewers were up to the job.

I had no problem with Holden’s appointment, but I don’t think anyone could come out and say we did a global search and DH was the best choice.  That’s just MA spin.  Would’ve been much better to say something along the lines of there were others out there with more experience, etc, but their job demands were too high, or they didn’t match the ethos, or whatever else.

The bit I can never get my head around is that the process went along the lines of:

- application

- filter

- initial chat / mini interview with 10+

- more interviews with 3 or 4

- appointment

At what point was Hughton unprepared because if he was, why didn’t they filter him out after the first chat?

I can certainly imagine Hughton thinking this isn’t the club for him.

(*** gave the answers the interviewers liked)

Ahhhh the Hughton unprepared rumour (Not your rumour I appreciate Dave) ............. Does he strike you as somebody so unprofessional to do that 

And don’t forget that all those interviewed were told that all signings and sales were MAs remit .......


Those still blaming all ills at Ashtons door amaze me - Do they really think SL and JL jump to his tune

Or does MA jump to theirs .........
 

I would suggest that MA might throw his opinion in but it is SL , via JL , and increasingly , JL himself that has the major decision making power


FWIW Personally my gut feeling is that DH was a JL choice

MA is a decent administrator , but is also a (highly paid)  ‘puppet’ / ‘front man’ who will follow the party line and say what the Lansdown’s want him to say

What is clear is that , setting aside administration , SL , JL and MA have little football knowledge / credibility between them 

Add a new learning coach with a professional career to date that is limited and the reality is there is no one in power at BCFC with a football pedigree 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Ahhhh the Hughton unprepared rumour (Not your rumour I appreciate Dave) ............. Does he strike you as somebody so unprofessional to do that 

And don’t forget that all those interviewed were told that all signings and sales were MAs remit .......


Those still blaming all ills at Ashtons door amaze me - Do they really think SL and JL jump to his tune

Or does MA jump to theirs .........
 

I would suggest that MA might throw his opinion in but it is SL , via JL , and increasingly , JL himself that has the major decision making power


FWIW Personally my gut feeling is that DH was a JL choice

MA is a decent administrator , but is also a (highly paid)  ‘puppet’ / ‘front man’ who will follow the party line and say what the Lansdown’s want him to say

What is clear is that , setting aside administration , SL , JL and MA have little football knowledge / credibility between them 

Add a new learning coach with a professional career to date that is limited and the reality is there is no one in power at BCFC with a football pedigree 

 

 

See my post above yours.

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50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

in summary, and other posters have said the same, he interviewed the best***.

Of course with that you could question whether the interviewers were up to the job.

I had no problem with Holden’s appointment, but I don’t think anyone could come out and say we did a global search and DH was the best choice.  That’s just MA spin.  Would’ve been much better to say something along the lines of there were others out there with more experience, etc, but their job demands were too high, or they didn’t match the ethos, or whatever else.

The bit I can never get my head around is that the process went along the lines of:

- application

- filter

- initial chat / mini interview with 10+

- more interviews with 3 or 4

- appointment

At what point was Hughton unprepared because if he was, why didn’t they filter him out after the first chat?

I can certainly imagine Hughton thinking this isn’t the club for him.

(*** gave the answers the interviewers liked)

To add to this, and another thing I think is an outright lie, is Ashton said they him and JL interviewed the 3 finalists ‘5 or 6 times’. 
 

Now, either they have just stupid and think that that sounds rigorous and acceptable/sounds like they worked really hard. Or, they’re stupid to think that the SAME two people need to speak/interview someone on at least 5 different stages before making a choice?

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5 hours ago, Chappers said:

At a guess, continuity, quality and ideal choice in times of Global uncertainty.it’s not normal times, we have a long injury list, and we are finally looking at our own youth players as the future. This type of transition season was inevitable at some time, no great problem really as I can’t see normality returning next season, and who wants a PL season with limited fans and no away trips?

Closest answer to the truth in my opinion. It's just a shame that:

a) the club can't be up front about it and you have to work it out for yourself.

b) we can't do a "transition season" and play a nice drop of proper football, now and again like QPR do, at the same time.

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53 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

What is clear is that , setting aside administration , SL , JL and MA have little football knowledge / credibility between them 

Add a new learning coach with a professional career to date that is limited and the reality is there is no one in power at BCFC with a football pedigree 

 

 

Ain't that the truth...........

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