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Kent/ Tavenier ??


Roadrunner

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Just been watching on Sky one Rangers v Hibs. Mainly to see how two on two of are ex players Ryan Kent and James Tavenier are getting on. Playing for a Rangers team sitting well on top of the league and getting some good results in Europe. Ryan now playing as a creative midfield player, rather than on the wing.  He played for us 10 times 0 goals.. He is on a much better goals to games figure. James full back  12 games and 3 goals for us. Is having a fantastic season and scoring lots of goals. I understand people will say the standard in Scotland is not so good, but they have been playing well in Europe as well. So was it once again the managers at City could not see what they might achieve   or have they found their level? 

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5 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Are some of the teams in the Europa League group stages better than Championship standard? 
 

Benfica are clearly, but I can’t imagine the two other clubs in their group would be better than Championship standard.

our team would look like world beaters in Scotland .... Kent and tavernier are playing in Scotland for a reason ... they aren’t good enough for English football 

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I’ve not seen too much of them yet, but I’m gonna start following Ryan Porteous, the Hibs CB and Jay Doig, the Hibs LB. 

Only managed to watch about 25 mins of this game and both took my eye immediately.  Gonna watch a few of their games and see what these 2 are made of. Porteous is 21, Doig 18. 

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I think the real problem with Kent was he put in poor performances when playing at City. Playing on the wing may not have been his best position but he displayed a general lack of determination. Perhaps he thought he was too good for City. Not getting into the City team may have given him the dose of realism he needed 

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3 minutes ago, Bristolisredd said:

our team would look like world beaters in Scotland .... Kent and tavernier are playing in Scotland for a reason ... they aren’t good enough for English football 

     Don’t think the current team are looking like world beaters in any league tbh.

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11 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Just been watching on Sky one Rangers v Hibs. Mainly to see how two on two of are ex players Ryan Kent and James Tavenier are getting on. Playing for a Rangers team sitting well on top of the league and getting some good results in Europe. Ryan now playing as a creative midfield player, rather than on the wing.  He played for us 10 times 0 goals.. He is on a much better goals to games figure. James full back  12 games and 3 goals for us. Is having a fantastic season and scoring lots of goals. I understand people will say the standard in Scotland is not so good, but they have been playing well in Europe as well. So was it once again the managers at City could not see what they might achieve   or have they found their level? 

Well the Hibs left back has skinned Tavernier a couple of times, Connor Goldson who is decent don’t get me wrong but looks like Beckenbauer at that level and you also look round the Hibs team full of players who would be hard pressed to get regular Championship football and I lean towards the found their level side of it.

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4 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I think the real problem with Kent was he put in poor performances when playing at City. Playing on the wing may not have been his best position but he displayed a general lack of determination. Perhaps he thought he was too good for City. Not getting into the City team may have given him the dose of realism he needed 

As Kent goes on to pick up his SPL winners medal, I think we might be stretching it to say we made him as a player....

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10 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I think the real problem with Kent was he put in poor performances when playing at City. Playing on the wing may not have been his best position but he displayed a general lack of determination. Perhaps he thought he was too good for City. Not getting into the City team may have given him the dose of realism he needed 

Spot on, plus he was incredibly greedy, he chose to shoot when others were in a better position on a regular basis.

Tavenier would have improved us at the time definitely, as he is clearly a better player than Mark Little.

We chose to sign Ryan Fredericks instead, who is playing at a higher level than us but that one went badly wrong for other reasons..

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The other key thing, you're not comparing either of them to how they were as players for us.

They've clearly developed their games since being at Rangers. 

36 minutes ago, Bristolisredd said:

our team would look like world beaters in Scotland .... Kent and tavernier are playing in Scotland for a reason ... they aren’t good enough for English football 

I often thought that about Foderingham that was nothing special at Swindon 

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46 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’ve not seen too much of them yet, but I’m gonna start following Ryan Porteous, the Hibs CB and Jay Doig, the Hibs LB. 

Only managed to watch about 25 mins of this game and both took my eye immediately.  Gonna watch a few of their games and see what these 2 are made of. Porteous is 21, Doig 18. 

Interested in Josh Knight for Wycombe today.

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49 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’ve not seen too much of them yet, but I’m gonna start following Ryan Porteous, the Hibs CB and Jay Doig, the Hibs LB. 

Only managed to watch about 25 mins of this game and both took my eye immediately.  Gonna watch a few of their games and see what these 2 are made of. Porteous is 21, Doig 18. 

Thanks Harry

Saw your comment and decided to switch on at 55 mins and play watch the player(s) as a bit of Boxing Day Interest

Could see straightaway what caught your eye - even as I tied to identify who was who , both caught the eye for small reasons

 

FWIW - just as a bit of fun / second opinion on a snapshot-

Pourteous - More difficult to judge him , due to what he had to do - But Combative, comfortable on the ball , looked a bit of a leader , looked quite mature for 21 - Reminded me a bit of a young Curtis Nelson

Doig - Was very impressed , especially  for 18 , bit of a unit isn’t he , great attitude and worked really hard , was played very high as a wing back and had a lot of ground to cover , strong , used his build well, decent pace and athleticism , decent left foot and looked to play , with his head up - Lots of box ticking and to like there

He reminded me very much of the little I’ve seen of Pring in many ways - He’s one Id definitely be watching very closely and if it wasn’t for Pring the very sort of player at 18 we should be picking up and developing 

Would force a decision on Pring but the sort of decision we should constantly be considering 

 

Will be interested in your post match thoughts 

 

Two good pick outs there 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Thanks Harry

Saw your comment and decided to switch on at 55 mins and play watch the player(s) as a bit of Boxing Day Interest

Could see straightaway what caught your eye - even as I tied to identify who was who , both caught the eye for small reasons

 

FWIW - just as a bit of fun / second opinion on a snapshot-

Pourteous - More difficult to judge him , due to what he had to do - But Combative, comfortable on the ball , looked a bit of a leader , looked quite mature for 21 - Reminded me a bit of a young Curtis Nelson

Doig - Was very impressed , especially  for 18 , bit of a unit isn’t he , great attitude and worked really hard , was played very high as a wing back and had a lot of ground to cover , strong , used his build well, decent pace and athleticism , decent left foot and looked to play , with his head up - Lots of box ticking and to like there

He reminded me very much of the little I’ve seen of Pring in many ways - He’s one Id definitely be watching very closely and if it wasn’t for Pring the very sort of player at 18 we should be picking up and developing 

Would force a decision on Pring but the sort of decision we should constantly be considering 

 

Will be interested in your post match thoughts 

 

Two good pick outs there 

 

 

 

Good summary Shelts. Pretty much how I saw it. 
Both young lads and both looked incredibly composed with the ball in what is usually a bit of a blood n thunder league. 
Both were positionally good too. Porteous made many good decisions in when to close, when to nip into a challenge, when to stand off. As you also said, looked like he was leading too, and his use of the ball for a CB was very good. 
Gonna keep my eye on these 2. 

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8 minutes ago, Harry said:

Good summary Shelts. Pretty much how I saw it. 
Both young lads and both looked incredibly composed with the ball in what is usually a bit of a blood n thunder league. 
Both were positionally good too. Porteous made many good decisions in when to close, when to nip into a challenge, when to stand off. As you also said, looked like he was leading too, and his use of the ball for a CB was very good. 
Gonna keep my eye on these 2. 

I know , due to backgrounds you will agree , but it makes you wonder whether someone like them pops up due to stats , on somebody’s laptop in a swish office in BS3

 

- I very much doubt it

Stats don’t identify an understanding of the game , early maturity , attitude and anything ‘in the context of the game played’

 

In our position I’d have a full time eyes on Scottish Scout  , and Irish - The markets we should be all over

I guess they can watch every Scottish Game and suchlike on their laptops but I wonder how much is actually done and the eyes of those picking out rough diamonds 

 

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2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I know , due to backgrounds you will agree , but it makes you wonder whether someone like them pops up due to stats , on somebody’s laptop in a swish office in BS3

 

- I very much doubt it

Stats don’t identify an understanding of the game , early maturity , attitude and anything ‘in the context of the game played’

 

In our position I’d have a full time eyes on Scottish Scout  , and Irish - The markets we should be all over

I guess they can watch every Scottish Game and suchlike on their laptops but I wonder how much is actually done and the eyes of those picking out rough diamonds 

 

Shelts - you’ve nailed one of the issues I have with our recruitment ?

Welcome aboard ?

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6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I know , due to backgrounds you will agree , but it makes you wonder whether someone like them pops up due to stats , on somebody’s laptop in a swish office in BS3

 

- I very much doubt it

Stats don’t identify an understanding of the game , early maturity , attitude and anything ‘in the context of the game played’

 

In our position I’d have a full time eyes on Scottish Scout  , and Irish - The markets we should be all over

I guess they can watch every Scottish Game and suchlike on their laptops but I wonder how much is actually done and the eyes of those picking out rough diamonds 

 

Irish market still ok post-Brexit too.

Cotterill and Burt scouted with their eyes.

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

Shelts - you’ve nailed one of the issues I have with our recruitment ?

Welcome aboard ?

I’ve never been a great one for analysts on laptops identifying targets Harry , although I accept that with the various software available to them it stretches way beyond stats

Probably of more use in analysing opponents and our own performances 

So on that , I am anti Ashton Empire

What I don’t believe is players being forced upon any head coach , certainly first team wise

 

I think we’ve not invested in the human side of our recruitment empire and I accept that may well / is likely to be at the hands of Ashton

(As HC Id be chipping away at SL about this) 

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5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I’ve never been a great one for analysts on laptops identifying targets Harry , although I accept that with the various software available to them it stretches way beyond stats

Probably of more use in analysing opponents and our own performances 

So on that , I am anti Ashton Empire

What I don’t believe is players being forced upon any head coach , certainly first team wise

 

I think we’ve not invested in the human side of our recruitment empire and I accept that may well / is likely to be at the hands of Ashton

(As HC Id be chipping away at SL about this) 

The problem is that the Analysts should be using video as their default, not stats (got their place)...it’s an efficient way of not being able to get to matches.  But of course much of the video is tv angle video, not wide angle stuff.

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The problem is that the Analysts should be using video as their default, not stats (got their place)...it’s an efficient way of not being able to get to matches.  But of course much of the video is tv angle video, not wide angle stuff.

Yes - that’s a good / fair point 

Tbf I don’t know how much they do or what they are looking for - would love to be a fly on the wall !

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Spot on, plus he was incredibly greedy, he chose to shoot when others were in a better position on a regular basis.

Whilst many pinpoint the turning point of that season at the Wolves game where Mad Frankie had a Mad Frankie moment, I actually think it was a couple of weeks later. We were 3-0 up at home to Sunderland and Ryan Kent went through on goal with Diony (?) alongside him. Instead of the simple pass for Diony to make it 4-0, he shoots and his shot is saved. We end up drawing 3-3 and Diony never recovers, this for me was the turning point of the season. I'm still annoyed. 

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1 hour ago, Bristolisredd said:

our team would look like world beaters in Scotland .... Kent and tavernier are playing in Scotland for a reason ... they aren’t good enough for English football 

You sure about that, I don’t think we would look like world beaters in division 1

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2 hours ago, Harry said:

I’ve not seen too much of them yet, but I’m gonna start following Ryan Porteous, the Hibs CB and Jay Doig, the Hibs LB. 

Only managed to watch about 25 mins of this game and both took my eye immediately.  Gonna watch a few of their games and see what these 2 are made of. Porteous is 21, Doig 18. 

Porteous has a real chance - but he has a real rashness to his game that you have to hope he grows out of as he develops. Picked up a few nonsense red cards and suspensions.

He has potential though, would be interested to see if an English side takes a chance on him at some point.

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5 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

I know , due to backgrounds you will agree , but it makes you wonder whether someone like them pops up due to stats , on somebody’s laptop in a swish office in BS3

 

- I very much doubt it

Stats don’t identify an understanding of the game , early maturity , attitude and anything ‘in the context of the game played’

 

In our position I’d have a full time eyes on Scottish Scout  , and Irish - The markets we should be all over

I guess they can watch every Scottish Game and suchlike on their laptops but I wonder how much is actually done and the eyes of those picking out rough diamonds 

 

Whether they do or don't, clubs who use the model aren't exactly doomed to failure. Here or overseas.

A fine example of using analytics and stats to strong effect here is Brentford. It's a reason they got rid of Warburton, wouldn't fully buy into the system.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/31527831

I also wonder whether over time, it will make managers who don't buy into such systems at clubs less employable.

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