Famara

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

If you mean when Wells choked the shot, I'm not sure a goal scorer baring down on goal is going to pass. I think it would be risky as Martin isn't quick and there are 2 defenders back. Even I'd shoot with my wrong foot in that position. If you'd seen me play you'd know how wrong my wrong foot was.

Can't think of the Semenyo one.

The problem is service has been so bad, tbf better today, he has been hunting the ball. He still ended up wide on a few occasions. That doesn't excuse his awful touch at times, and why he didn't chase down 2 through balls.

Holden said they thought they could get 20 minutes out of him today. Not sure what that means for Tuesday .

When he shot past the far post second half when he should have squared it to Martin for a tap in

[Matty Taylors a Red]

I disagree, he tends to be poor when he starts. Seems to be a lot more effective coming on as a sub. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Sky just had a graphic in the Watford-Norwich game about goals scored by subs. We`re second behind Norwich with six - three of them down to Fam!

[Sheltons Army]

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Interesting. I think he's been pretty poor most games. In fact, terrible some games like today. 

We don't play to his strengths to be fair. But I'd expect him to be able to control the ball far better and his passing has been so poor too. 

Today his passing was not so bad as he couldn't get it under control to pass it!

No doubt it would help him if we played him in his best role. Up top in the lone role with Palmer/Pato type in behind.

I wasn’t thrilled by his signing

And he’s performing , only just  under what I expected tbh

His QPR half season was his career hot spot

[Bassomylord]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

I wasn’t thrilled by his signing

And he’s performing , only just  under what I expected tbh

His QPR half season was his career hot spot

He was a terrible signing. A club like us should not give a 3 year deal to a 30 year old on high wages with no resale value.

If you were going to sign Wells it should have been when he was at Bradford. Not last season.

[Davefevs]

55 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Interesting. I think he's been pretty poor most games. In fact, terrible some games like today. 

We don't play to his strengths to be fair. But I'd expect him to be able to control the ball far better and his passing has been so poor too. 

Today his passing was not so bad as he couldn't get it under control to pass it!

No doubt it would help him if we played him in his best role. Up top in the lone role with Palmer/Pato type in behind.

I don’t think he was terrible today.  He was a 5/10 for me.

In an earlier post you called out Semenyo having a couple of superb moments?  What about Wells, spin, control and nutmeg in the first half, or the dribble inside his man and the ball drifted into Martin’s path late in the first half.

Yes, he wasn’t great today, but you have to have a bit of consistency across player evaluation Jon.

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think he was terrible today.  He was a 5/10 for me.

In an earlier post you called out Semenyo having a couple of superb moments?  What about Wells, spin, control and nutmeg in the first half, or the dribble inside his man and the ball drifted into Martin’s path late in the first half.

Yes, he wasn’t great today, but you have to have a bit of consistency across player evaluation Jon.

I think it is fair to criticise the guy that has been a professional in England since Semenyo was 11 years old. Semenyo should get more room for error as he cost us nothing in terms of a fee and is probably on 1/3 or less than Wells per week. Wells was pretty bad today played in a role more like he would be used to.
 

I guess what I am saying is, we expect a lot more from Wells than Semenyo. So it is fair to be more harsh towards Nakhi. Same with Chris Martin and Fam as well. Keep in mind Semenyo has been asked to play left right and centrally on top of learning his trade.

[Sheltons Army]

28 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think it is fair to criticise the guy that has been a professional in England since Semenyo was 11 years old. Semenyo should get more room for error as he cost us nothing in terms of a fee and is probably on 1/3 or less than Wells per week. Wells was pretty bad today played in a role more like he would be used to.
 

I guess what I am saying is, we expect a lot more from Wells than Semenyo. So it is fair to be more harsh towards Nakhi. Same with Chris Martin and Fam as well. Keep in mind Semenyo has been asked to play left right and centrally on top of learning his trade.

Good post Joe

And well explained 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Thought that first thing Wells did was superb for sure. At 5 million and probably one of the highest earners I would expect him to be able to control a ball better though and his passing this season has been so poor.

I thought the examples of Semenyo beating players really was superb play. I don't think Wells can do what Semenyo can in the way he can beat players. Maybe we are getting used to seeing it from Semenyo and taking it for granted! Wells doing the odd bit like that in the first half more of a surprise.

Semenyo works so much better for the team too. Is actually a very good player in coming back and helping out defensively.

Wells when wide will work back a bit, but generally likes to work hard in attacking areas. Not got the discipline of Semenyo who at times has shown he will more than happily go right back to help out for long spells.

Up top Wells link up play poor imo. He's certainly not very versatile. Just seems an out and out number 9 who needs creativity threading balls through.

I thought Wells was a 4, Semenyo a 6. I believe Semenyo plays better most games than Wells if scoring them out of 10. 

I don’t disagree over the season Wells hasn’t reached the levels I expect from him, but I’ll also say he was getting better and contributing more until he got switched out to the wing.

I’m not gonna debate the merits of each defensively, I really don’t think either want to be back there, and do / try their best.  I appreciate players have to be part of a team, but it probably suggests we have bigger issues with team set-up / system that we are debating their relative merits defensively .

No probs on ratings, it’s all subjective.

45 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think it is fair to criticise the guy that has been a professional in England since Semenyo was 11 years old. Semenyo should get more room for error as he cost us nothing in terms of a fee and is probably on 1/3 or less than Wells per week. Wells was pretty bad today played in a role more like he would be used to.
 

I guess what I am saying is, we expect a lot more from Wells than Semenyo. So it is fair to be more harsh towards Nakhi. Same with Chris Martin and Fam as well. Keep in mind Semenyo has been asked to play left right and centrally on top of learning his trade.

Don’t have a problem with expectations being different.  I think my issue today was that Antoine was pretty much anonymous first half, had a couple of really good runs at the start of the second half, and that was it.  I don’t have a problem with that, he’s raw, he’s learning.  He’ll give up and down performances.

But I do get a bit fed of, Wells wants to be at QPR, he’s moody, etc.  Not you, but I do think it clouds people’s views of what he does on the pitch.  Every mis-control is picked up on, but until the last 3/4 games, nobody criticised Martin for giving it away often, they’ve only noticed it because we are losing.

I want more from Wells, because I expect more too....there’s a better player in there than we are seeing at the mo.  It’s not helped by the way we are playing.

How many times did we have controlled possession in the final third today where we teased an opening by being a bit patient, probing until it was right for the killer pass?  Once....it brought us a goal.

Haven't seen any of the game back, but from memory Nagy intercepted a ball high up, and then Bakinson was on the ball before playing in the advancing Rowe (really good run), who slipped it wide to O’Dowda, who moved towards the box, got his half a yard and stood up a cross that Martin under pressure headed home really well.

On an aside, a left footed cross from the left wing....much easier to judge flight, and attack for a player like Martin.  I think both Callum and Antoine are better on the left side....could really do with someone on the right if we continue to play like this.  Opi might get a start v Luton.

[Numero Uno]

7 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I think it is fair to criticise the guy that has been a professional in England since Semenyo was 11 years old. Semenyo should get more room for error as he cost us nothing in terms of a fee and is probably on 1/3 or less than Wells per week. Wells was pretty bad today played in a role more like he would be used to.
 

I guess what I am saying is, we expect a lot more from Wells than Semenyo. So it is fair to be more harsh towards Nakhi. Same with Chris Martin and Fam as well. Keep in mind Semenyo has been asked to play left right and centrally on top of learning his trade.

Spot on assessment imo. Yesterday I would give Wells a 4, Semenyo a 4.5 and Martin a 5 (and that’s only because he scored). It’s great seeing individual moments in a game but when your three forwards miss sitters then compound it by weakly surrendering possession all second half and thus allow the weakest team in the league to build up a head of steam I cannot see how any of them deserve higher ratings.

All three of them have to give us far more than they did second half yesterday for me. That was unacceptable in my eyes.

[Hampshire Red]

Bit by bit from posts on this thread. Pongo may think all forum readers know Wells is playing badly. He is and he is rubbish, a poor man's Matt  Taylor. Most forum posters have an appalling record of evaluating players and coaches so I would diel regards what others say as a reason for criticing Deano. He's got us in a good position with half his first team unavailable and he has nowhere near the tactical experience nor nouse of Johnson. He's doing OK. 

Fam is great, he has a good record over 3 seasons for City, not just the odd goal and odd good game. He is head and shoulders the most likely to score in our current squad. Anyone who has watched him from the stands regularly knows his effort and contribution. Would be hard to replace his strike record. 

 Missi g the new ground at Brentford is a real shame after some battling performances there in recent years. I wonder if Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan will be in the stands?! 

[daored]

Assume Fam can sign a pre contract with another club from Friday (aboard)? 

[RedEyez]

If it was so abundantly obvious that he didn’t wanna be here, would we have signed him? Thought we were really good and sniffing out good and bad “DNA”  ...

[Top Robin]

15 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I neither know nor care whether he is signing a new contract but he simply has to start.

Far more likely to score than Martin or Semenyo, far more heart than Wells, it should be who partners him, not whether he starts..

I would play Fam and Bell up front for now.

Bell can't do any worse that Wells and will probably do better.

[extonsred]

11 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

I wasn’t thrilled by his signing

And he’s performing , only just  under what I expected tbh

His QPR half season was his career hot spot

QPR were getting the ball in the box far quicker n more often than we do. That's when Wells is at his best - good poacher. 

[Bassomylord]

Good player Fammy but time to move on.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Comparing Fammy with Wells, last 3 seasons not including this one.

Wells:

17/18 Playing in the PL, 0 goals.

18/19 Championship 7 goals

19/20 Championship 18 goals

Average in Championship: 12.5

Fammy:

17/18 Championship 13 goals

18/19 Championship 13 goals

19/20 Championship 12 goals

Average in Championship 12.66

The conclusion, if the figures are correct, would appear to be that both players are about equally potent at Championship level, and, if anything, Fammy the more consistent.

[The Bard]

On 27/12/2020 at 08:09, RedEyez said:

If it was so abundantly obvious that he didn’t wanna be here, would we have signed him? Thought we were really good and sniffing out good and bad “DNA”  ...

The right DNA for Mark Ashton is blandness.  Strong characters not wanted.  He'd never have signed Flint, Pack, Smith, Ayling, Wade Elliott, Wilbraham.  

[Calculus]

54 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Comparing Fammy with Wells, last 3 seasons not including this one.

Wells:

17/18 Playing in the PL, 0 goals.

18/19 Championship 7 goals

19/20 Championship 18 goals

Average in Championship: 12.5

Fammy:

17/18 Championship 13 goals

18/19 Championship 13 goals

19/20 Championship 12 goals

Average in Championship 12.66

The conclusion, if the figures are correct, would appear to be that both players are about equally potent at Championship level, and, if anything, Fammy the more consistent.

.... and Fammy is a big asset in defence, as well as being a warrior with a good attitude.

[bcfc01]

36 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Comparing Fammy with Wells, last 3 seasons not including this one.

Wells:

17/18 Playing in the PL, 0 goals.

18/19 Championship 7 goals

19/20 Championship 18 goals

Average in Championship: 12.5

Fammy:

17/18 Championship 13 goals

18/19 Championship 13 goals

19/20 Championship 12 goals

Average in Championship 12.66

The conclusion, if the figures are correct, would appear to be that both players are about equally potent at Championship level, and, if anything, Fammy the more consistent.

I think your figures are correct but for completion the overall the stats (taken from transfermarkt) for the Championship are;

Wells        248 games  75 goals  23 assists 

Diedhiou  132 games   41 goals   7 assists 

Both generally 1 in 3 players or 14 goals a season and a few assists, but I think Wells is a more intelligent footballer and can get across his marker in the box (not seen too much of that lately though). Diedhiou is good at defending near post set pieces but Martin is at least his equal in that respect. He is there to be effective at the other end of the pitch and thats where his performances should be rated.

But both are prone to woeful finishing and going awol in a game and neither are up to the top end of the Championship or beyond imo. I don't rate either of them very highly tbh - average at best.

 

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I think your figures are correct but for completion the overall the stats (taken from transfermarkt) for the Championship are;

Wells        248 games  75 goals  23 assists 

Diedhiou  132 games   41 goals   7 assists 

Both generally 1 in 3 players or 14 goals a season and a few assists, but I think Wells is a more intelligent footballer and can get across his marker in the box (not seen too much of that lately though). Diedhiou is good at defending near post set pieces but Martin is at least his equal in that respect. He is there to be effective at the other end of the pitch and thats where his performances should be rated.

But both are prone to woeful finishing and going awol in a game and neither are up to the top end of the Championship or beyond imo. I don't rate either of them very highly tbh - average at best.

 

Both decent enough strikers at this level....and both very different strikers.

Both also having to play roles not suited to their natural game.

That’s a strange way of spending £8-10m combined isn’t it?

 

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Both decent enough strikers at this level....and both very different strikers.

Both also having to play roles not suited to their natural game.

That’s a strange way of spending £8-10m combined isn’t it?

 

 

With Diedhiou, as I have said many times on here, I didn't expect him to be playing as he is considering the clips I saw of him before signing which seemed to show him as anything but a "target man."  He looked more like a slower version of Kodjia to me and I've seen glimpses of that over his years here, especially when he occasionally drops deep for the ball, but LJ obviously wanted something different from him and DH has carried that on. I believe he isn't playing his natural game but I can only rate him on what I've seen of him at this club and I find him to be largely immobile, static in the box, and unable to make any runs across his man. 

I'm not sure what Well's natural game is tbh as I've only seen him at this club and little snippets from elsewhere, but he looks an intelligent footballer to me who should be able to play across the front line and he is adequate in doing that but his finishing is not consistently good enough for the top end of this division and certainly not anything beyond that imo. 

The fees are stupidly inflated in football, as are the wages, as we all know and over 5m for Diedhiou was stupid money if he isn't to be played to his strengths. It was too much for Wells imo.

[big dosser]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Both decent enough strikers at this level....and both very different strikers.

Both also having to play roles not suited to their natural game.

That’s a strange way of spending £8-10m combined isn’t it?

 

agree with you dave ,i think wells fammy sem and martin all bring something different but are lacking in confident and snapping at shots' would like to see wells down the middle like pukki this is where he can do damage. Also think we need to find a top 2 partnership that works get to know each others game, I feel because of injuries and having to swap positions around this has been tough on all four. I would like to see 442 with fam and wells up top and cod and sem out wide. We have had some great wingers in the past with some great partnerships upfront. Another thing i would try and lets be honest he can not do no worse is to bring palmer back and play him up top.

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

 

With Diedhiou, as I have said many times on here, I didn't expect him to be playing as he is considering the clips I saw of him before signing which seemed to show him as anything but a "target man."

me too.  I watched Angers a lot during his season there because of Kodjia, and as you say he was anything but a target man.

He looked more like a slower version of Kodjia to me and I've seen glimpses of that over his years here, especially when he occasionally drops deep for the ball, but LJ obviously wanted something different from him and DH has carried that on.

imagine spending £5.3m on someone and trying to significantly change their natural game.

I believe he isn't playing his natural game but I can only rate him on what I've seen of him at this club and I find him to be largely immobile, static in the box, and unable to make any runs across his man.

yep, all of that....and yet we see some flashes of sublime skill and technique in space around the corner of the box, especially left side / channel.

I'm not sure what Well's natural game is tbh as I've only seen him at this club and little snippets from elsewhere, but he looks an intelligent footballer to me who should be able to play across the front line and he is adequate in doing that but his finishing is not consistently good enough for the top end of this division and certainly not anything beyond that imo.

Saw a lot of Wells for Bradford way back, and less at Huddersfield, but he is an in-to-out runner in general play.  You need to find him early, you need the wide midfielders / wingbacks to such the full-back towards them and let Wells spin into the channel.  The silly thing first half Saturday was the early balls were left side to Martin (he ran the channel quite well for him!!!), and I think that’s because Semenyo doesn’t quite know how to create the space for a teammate yet.  O’Dowda dragged Grimmer short well 1st half....stopped doing it second half!

When around the box, he’s off the shoulder...looking to get clever passes.

He’s never been a build-up player, he’s very hit and miss....and I think he plays in confidence.

The fees are stupidly inflated in football, as are the wages, as we all know and over 5m for Diedhiou was stupid money if he isn't to be played to his strengths. It was too much for Wells imo.

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Comparing Fammy with Wells, last 3 seasons not including this one.

Wells:

17/18 Playing in the PL, 0 goals.

18/19 Championship 7 goals

19/20 Championship 18 goals

Average in Championship: 12.5

Fammy:

17/18 Championship 13 goals

18/19 Championship 13 goals

19/20 Championship 12 goals

Average in Championship 12.66

The conclusion, if the figures are correct, would appear to be that both players are about equally potent at Championship level, and, if anything, Fammy the more consistent.

You can go back further, looking at their entire careers at our level, and Fam still comes out on top. I've looked at comparing the two before (to counter the ridiculous "Wells is a 20-goal a season striker" line) and the other big thing in Fam's favour is his consistency. Across his whole career he rarely goes more than 5 games without a goal. Conversely he rarely gets 2 or 3 in a game but  15 single goals across 15 games will return more points than 5 hat-tricks over 5.

When we signed Wells he was scoring at double the rate of his xG for QPR. Double. He was so far above his career average goals per game. It was madness to think he'd come to us and keep it going. If Ashton's recruitment algorithm is that short-sighted then I despair.

Add to that his shite passing in the midfield and lack of any defensive responsibility and I really start to think Burnley had our pants down.

Vive le Fam. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

I think your figures are correct but for completion the overall the stats (taken from transfermarkt) for the Championship are;

Wells        248 games  75 goals  23 assists 

Diedhiou  132 games   41 goals   7 assists 

Both generally 1 in 3 players or 14 goals a season and a few assists, but I think Wells is a more intelligent footballer and can get across his marker in the box (not seen too much of that lately though). Diedhiou is good at defending near post set pieces but Martin is at least his equal in that respect. He is there to be effective at the other end of the pitch and thats where his performances should be rated.

But both are prone to woeful finishing and going awol in a game and neither are up to the top end of the Championship or beyond imo. I don't rate either of them very highly tbh - average at best.

 

I'm highlighting their relative scoring prowess at this level in recent seasons after noting that many on here seem to think of Wells as a consistently high goalscorer at this level, with Fammy giving a poorer return.

That's not the case - as you say each has a record of about 1:3.

Imo Fammy adds far more to the team overall (and very likely the dressing room too judging by their respective demeanours) and as he is 2 years younger and proven to score just as many as Wells I'd certainly like to see him stay.

Must admit I'm not too bothered about Wells and if we could sign a younger replacement (e.g. Jephcott) I wouldn't be disappointed to see him move on.

 

[Sheltons Army]

56 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

You can go back further, looking at their entire careers at our level, and Fam still comes out on top. I've looked at comparing the two before (to counter the ridiculous "Wells is a 20-goal a season striker" line) and the other big thing in Fam's favour is his consistency. Across his whole career he rarely goes more than 5 games without a goal. Conversely he rarely gets 2 or 3 in a game but  15 single goals across 15 games will return more points than 5 hat-tricks over 5.

When we signed Wells he was scoring at double the rate of his xG for QPR. Double. He was so far above his career average goals per game. It was madness to think he'd come to us and keep it going. If Ashton's recruitment algorithm is that short-sighted then I despair.

Add to that his shite passing in the midfield and lack of any defensive responsibility and I really start to think Burnley had our pants down.

Vive le Fam. 

This

Have said this a number of times

Lees shiny new toy , as Wells was having the hottest Few months of his career 

Ashton and Johnson couldn’t resist , and this was reflected by the ‘excitement’ and ‘expectation’ of many on here who were judging Wells on his previous few months at QPR only

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

This

Have said this a number of times

Lees shiny new toy , as Wells was having the hottest Few months of his career 

Ashton and Johnson couldn’t resist , and this was reflected by the ‘excitement’ and ‘expectation’ of many on here who were judging Wells on his previous few months at QPR only

The Wells we have signed does not appear to be the Wells I mentioned most summers previously.  But then again, apart from a 12 game spell (5 goals and improving not perfect team contribution) under Holden playing one system (last season and early this) Wells has been messed about a bit too.  Criticised regularly by LJ after arrival I think it really highlights poor recruitment.

Back to last January, would we have been better widening our net, than trying to do a deal with Burnley? According to kid the fee was significantly less than £5m, but there were add-ins.  I guess it was a case of  - if you want Brownhill now rather than a bun fight in the summer then let us have Wells cheap / cheaper.

I do agree that I don’t think LJ had really thought about how he’d play him.

I don’t need to look back at the fixtures to recall we’d just won 3 on the trot playing Fam up top on his own...in a stumbled upon 4141/4411 (started 30 mins into Wigan (a)). The fourth game in that spell was Wells debut against QPR....Fam with a magnificent header.

Our front 6 throughout those games were:

Weimann | Brownhill | Smith | Eliasson

                            Paterson

                            Diedhiou

In different phases of play it morphed to:

                              Smith

Weimann | Brownhill | Paterson | Eliasson

                            Diedhiou

It wasn’t massively dissimilar to the little run we had pre-Xmas when Weimann played the Pato role, and Brownhill played narrow RM (with Nagy and Massengo in CM).  Recall Fulham (a), Huddersfield (h) and Luton (h)?

But LJ couldn’t resist changing something that worked.  As you say Wells his shiny toy.  Had he replaced Diedhiou with Wells and carried on the supply, then who knows.  I accept he had to replace Brownhill, but that’s what Henriksen was for.

I do think there is more to Wells than we are seeing though.  But I can’t help think that the thinking is muddled in terms of how to play him, as was recruitment.

 

[Sheltons Army]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The Wells we have signed does not appear to be the Wells I mentioned most summers previously.  But then again, apart from a 12 game spell (5 goals and improving not perfect team contribution) under Holden playing one system (last season and early this) Wells has been messed about a bit too.  Criticised regularly by LJ after arrival I think it really highlights poor recruitment.

Back to last January, would we have been better widening our net, than trying to do a deal with Burnley? According to kid the fee was significantly less than £5m, but there were add-ins.  I guess it was a case of  - if you want Brownhill now rather than a bun fight in the summer then let us have Wells cheap / cheaper.

I do agree that I don’t think LJ had really thought about how he’d play him.

I don’t need to look back at the fixtures to recall we’d just won 3 on the trot playing Fam up top on his own...in a stumbled upon 4141/4411 (started 30 mins into Wigan (a)). The fourth game in that spell was Wells debut against QPR....Fam with a magnificent header.

Our front 6 throughout those games were:

Weimann | Brownhill | Smith | Eliasson

                            Paterson

                            Diedhiou

In different phases of play it morphed to:

                              Smith

Weimann | Brownhill | Paterson | Eliasson

                            Diedhiou

It wasn’t massively dissimilar to the little run we had pre-Xmas when Weimann played the Pato role, and Brownhill played narrow RM (with Nagy and Massengo in CM).  Recall Fulham (a), Huddersfield (h) and Luton (h)?

But LJ couldn’t resist changing something that worked.  As you say Wells his shiny toy.  Had he replaced Diedhiou with Wells and carried on the supply, then who knows.  I accept he had to replace Brownhill, but that’s what Henriksen was for.

I do think there is more to Wells than we are seeing though.  But I can’t help think that the thinking is muddled in terms of how to play him, as was recruitment.

 

I think Wells , ironically , was the start of the final episode of LJ here

Im sure he sold the promise that with Wells he could get us over the line , and certainly in the play offs

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I think Wells , ironically , was the start of the final episode of LJ here

Im sure he sold the promise that with Wells he could get us over the line , and certainly in the play offs

It was a strange signing in a way as it went against our recruitment ethos to a certain extent - was it perhaps a bit of a kneejerk reaction to previous years` criticism of us not going for it in January when we had the chance?