Time for a clear out - starting January

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Hold on, a minute ago it was Google and now it is the Welsh Press. What about the Beano ?

Look Tone,

This isn’t the time to be arguing about Baker , he’s gone , binned in the revolution ..... now can we move on now 

I’m eager to get to the replacements 

[BigTone]

5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Look Tone,

This isn’t the time to be arguing about Baker , he’s gone , binned in the revolution ..... now can we move on now 

I’m eager to get to the replacements 

Viva la revolution !!  Let's sign that young chap from Bayern called Dennis Von Menace.

[davidoldfart]

1 hour ago, Bassomylord said:

Let's be honest we ain't going up and we certainly aren't going down....Time to start the clear out in Jan and get some money for some of these players.

Funny how Paterson has suddenly become injured.....im guessing a club might be in for him Jan.

Sell Diedhiou Hunt Pato Baker Walsh, if we can, if not release in the summer....good servants but we need to freshen this club up. Keep Mariappa, Rowe, Brunt, Gilmartin Weimann until the summer as zero resale value anyway....thanks for your efforts but we need to upgrade.

Moore,Massengo,Adelukan, O'Dowda thank you for your efforts but sell at the end of the season....none of them are good enough for where we want to be.....if there are any suiters of course.

Palmer, Wells and Martin will be impossible to shift.....a shame especially Wells very surprised we forked out a long contract on high wages for a 30 year old.

Build this team around Bently Kalas and Vyner.

This club is too soft, too nice and too comfortable for people to coast through their careers, time to change tact!!

Prat

[Swede]

I would turn your argument around and say that it's up to the Head Coach and his staff to get the best out of the likes of COD and KP45.

Don't forget that we have two ex England coaches on the staff so surely they can get the best out of the playing staff.

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Let's be honest we ain't going up and we certainly aren't going down....Time to start the clear out in Jan and get some money for some of these players.

Funny how Paterson has suddenly become injured.....im guessing a club might be in for him Jan.

Sell Diedhiou Hunt Pato Baker Walsh, if we can, if not release in the summer....good servants but we need to freshen this club up. Keep Mariappa, Rowe, Brunt, Gilmartin Weimann until the summer as zero resale value anyway....thanks for your efforts but we need to upgrade.

Moore,Massengo,Adelukan, O'Dowda thank you for your efforts but sell at the end of the season....none of them are good enough for where we want to be.....if there are any suiters of course.

Palmer, Wells and Martin will be impossible to shift.....a shame especially Wells very surprised we forked out a long contract on high wages for a 30 year old.

Build this team around Bently Kalas and Vyner.

This club is too soft, too nice and too comfortable for people to coast through their careers, time to change tact!!

Staggered

[Lrrr]

Wait why are we releasing Walsh when if we offered him a new deal and Walsh rejected it we’d be due compensation.....

[MC RISK77]

8 hours ago, lenred said:

I find it odd that you seem to want to belittle this guy all the time for changing his forum name when you did the very same thing.

Yeah I find it very odd as well that a grown man or woman is that obsessed with the goings on of people on a forum as well. 

Bit like that guy who used to stalk Robbored!! Very strange 

[Phileas Fogg]

11 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Let's be honest we ain't going up and we certainly aren't going down....Time to start the clear out in Jan and get some money for some of these players.

Funny how Paterson has suddenly become injured.....im guessing a club might be in for him Jan.

Sell Diedhiou Hunt Pato Baker Walsh, if we can, if not release in the summer....good servants but we need to freshen this club up. Keep Mariappa, Rowe, Brunt, Gilmartin Weimann until the summer as zero resale value anyway....thanks for your efforts but we need to upgrade.

Moore,Massengo,Adelukan, O'Dowda thank you for your efforts but sell at the end of the season....none of them are good enough for where we want to be.....if there are any suiters of course.

Palmer, Wells and Martin will be impossible to shift.....a shame especially Wells very surprised we forked out a long contract on high wages for a 30 year old.

Build this team around Bently Kalas and Vyner.

This club is too soft, too nice and too comfortable for people to coast through their careers, time to change tact!!

People think that transfers work like they do on FIFA. It's absurd to think we'd do a total rebuild during a pandemic in January. It simply won't happen. A rebuild like that would take several seasons. 

[Oh Louie louie]

A good manager, will get a team promoted within two years.

History tells me that.

Somebody pointed out the other day, jj, sc, gj, all did this.

 

[A Horse With No Name]

12 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

So you want to sell 12 and release 4 (I’ll discount Gilmartin) , including releasing Weimann for nothing ,

and replace them

In one window.......well two then

 

 

 

 

Football Manager has a lot to answer for 

And you tell me to think before I post. Hilarious.

[Son of Fred]

12 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Let's be honest we ain't going up and we certainly aren't going down....Time to start the clear out in Jan and get some money for some of these players.

Funny how Paterson has suddenly become injured.....im guessing a club might be in for him Jan.

Sell Diedhiou Hunt Pato Baker Walsh, if we can, if not release in the summer....good servants but we need to freshen this club up. Keep Mariappa, Rowe, Brunt, Gilmartin Weimann until the summer as zero resale value anyway....thanks for your efforts but we need to upgrade.

Moore,Massengo,Adelukan, O'Dowda thank you for your efforts but sell at the end of the season....none of them are good enough for where we want to be.....if there are any suiters of course.

Palmer, Wells and Martin will be impossible to shift.....a shame especially Wells very surprised we forked out a long contract on high wages for a 30 year old.

Build this team around Bently Kalas and Vyner.

This club is too soft, too nice and too comfortable for people to coast through their careers, time to change tact!!

You missed Semenyo...

Couldn't hit a 's arse with a banjo...

[GrahamC]

12 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Let's be honest we ain't going up and we certainly aren't going down....Time to start the clear out in Jan and get some money for some of these players.

Funny how Paterson has suddenly become injured.....im guessing a club might be in for him Jan.

Sell Diedhiou Hunt Pato Baker Walsh, if we can, if not release in the summer....good servants but we need to freshen this club up. Keep Mariappa, Rowe, Brunt, Gilmartin Weimann until the summer as zero resale value anyway....thanks for your efforts but we need to upgrade.

Moore,Massengo,Adelukan, O'Dowda thank you for your efforts but sell at the end of the season....none of them are good enough for where we want to be.....if there are any suiters of course.

Palmer, Wells and Martin will be impossible to shift.....a shame especially Wells very surprised we forked out a long contract on high wages for a 30 year old.

Build this team around Bently Kalas and Vyner.

This club is too soft, too nice and too comfortable for people to coast through their careers, time to change tact!!

It’s change tack, not tact.

The rest of this post is just too stupid to respond to, beyond saying it takes absolutely no account at all of the fact that a Covid influenced transfer market is virtually dead & that someone has to want a player for you to sell him.

This really is badly thought out fantasy stuff with some incredible insight like “keep Gilmartin” (as if there is suddenly a market for retired goalkeepers who are now U23 coaches).

[SouthS22]

Despite all the criticism and some of the obvious limitations in terms of reality, the OP here does raise some interesting points for discussion.  We do need a bit of an overhaul I think in terms of personnel,  though of course were probably looking at 3-5 changes max rather than 12-14. 

Sorry, Baker has to go - decent but too often injured and can’t be relied on. never really replaced Webster - that kind of player would be ideal

 Mariappa - no extension beyond Jan.  too error prone

Looks like Walsh will not sign a deal - shame, looks decent but we need an attacking mid link between attack and defence

Pato - sorry, too inconsistent, only ever get half a game from him

Weimann - many may disagree with this one. Love his energy but he gives the ball away too much and I think we would benefit from a more creative and accurate wide player

Fam - sadly doesn’t look to be signing.  Need to replace with pace and the ability to consistently hit the target.  This is where the main investment is needed. 
 

[Atticus]

People going mental at the OP....

But Baker, Walsh and probably Diedhou will be off. So too will Mariappa. So thats 4 gone. 

There is also clearly no future for Palmer and Adelukan. So, 6 that will more then likely go. 

Plus we are left with some players that are clearly not good enough for the "aspirations" of our saviour Owner. 

So, I would suggest there may well have to be some kind of semi clearout, rejigging in the summer. Under DH of course. 

[TonyTonyTony]

It’s amazing to me how some fans think players are so disposable. Get rid of him, get rid of that one - it takes a while to build and gel a team. To suggest to get rid of so many players at once is just mental. 

On the other hand he could just be on an attention seeking wind up

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

People think that transfers work like they do on FIFA. It's absurd to think we'd do a total rebuild during a pandemic in January. It simply won't happen. A rebuild like that would take several seasons. 

Three windows!!!

17 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

It’s amazing to me how some fans think players are so disposable. Get rid of him, get rid of that one - it takes a while to build and gel a team. To suggest to get rid of so many players at once is just mental. 

On the other hand he could just be on an attention seeking wind up

What we need to do is improve recruitment, so that we are left with less players nearing the end of their contracts that we think we should let go.

We should be thinking that any player we sign is here for the long-haul unless they improve so much that we sell them on.  If that means a policy of pretty much u24s only, I’m ok with that.

We need to be smarter with pillaging the really good youngsters (with high ceiling) at the lower end of the Champ, or PL players being let go with a point to prove.

In fairness Joe Williams fits that profile perfectly....yeah, yeah, he’s been injured, but that is the type of transfer where we can flex our muscle financially and attract those types of player.

[Nogbad the Bad]

14 hours ago, Capman said:

Personally I would like a clear out of forum contributors. Try and get a more sensible discussion. 

At least the Op is trying to initiate discussion.

If you don't like the quality of debate on OTIB it is within your power to improve it by starting threads, and posting more, yourself.

Then of course we can all better judge the sense, and quality, of your own contributions.

[cidercity1987]

4 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

A good manager, will get a team promoted within two years.

History tells me that.

Somebody pointed out the other day, jj, sc, gj, all did this.

 

Bit easier in League One where we will always be one of the biggest clubs

[Oh Louie louie]

Nope, i think i top drawer manager at this level, with a budget like ours, will get you out this leauge.

Somebody, with maybe a few promotions on their cv.

[SuperRed]

Whilst it’s unrealistic to think we will be able to get rid of so many players at once and replace them with better ones, I do share the OP’s frustrations with the squad we have compiled. There are not many players in it I would miss watching if they were to leave. 

[Bassomylord]

People can criticise the post as much as they like. 

Baker,Paterson,Diedhiou,Walsh, Hunt could all leave....that is realistic

Mawson, Sessagnon will be gone at the end of the season.....realistic

Rowe,Brunt, Gilmartin, Mariappa,Watkins,Adelukan? All out of contract them leaving is realistic.

Nagy, ODowda 1 year left with an option....realistically could be sold.....moore parmer out of favour.

13 players out of contract, can't force them to sign on the dotted line, wait and see, turn over of players will be bigger than any in our recent history.

 

[Davefevs]

I think some will be re-contracted, Baker, Hunt and Paterson.  Some financial benefits re Baker and Hunt  that even extending by a year, helps cut Amortisation costs by the best part of £700k for this year.  That needs to be factored in against the cost of replacing them.

[cidercity1987]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think some will be re-contracted, Baker, Hunt and Paterson.  Some financial benefits re Baker and Hunt  that even extending by a year, helps cut Amortisation costs by the best part of £700k for this year.  That needs to be factored in against the cost of replacing them.

Is that for FFP because it's obviously not an actual cost saving?

[Sheltons Army]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think some will be re-contracted, Baker, Hunt and Paterson.  Some financial benefits re Baker and Hunt  that even extending by a year, helps cut Amortisation costs by the best part of £700k for this year.  That needs to be factored in against the cost of replacing them.

Good point - Weimann too,  I would assume 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Is that for FFP because it's obviously not an actual cost saving?

Believe it or not it’s a cost saving. In the P&L (which is also used for FFP), depreciation (amortisation) of the players value is a cost.  In our last set of accounts the total amortisation cost was £10.8m!

Assuming Baker’s fee was indeed £3.5m, then each year there is a cost of £875k. If we were to extend his contract that final £875k is split by the new term, so a one year extension gets split £437.5k this year and £437.5k next year.

Thats just doing it simply. I’ve no idea whether City amortise annually or monthly.

if monthly or even half yearly then Baker’s value is less. He probably sits in a monthly book of £437.5k value left in which case you’d apportion it 1/3 : 2/3.

But every little helps!!!

Especially when comparing to playing out a transfer fee, agent fees, signing on fees etc for a new player. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Good point - Weimann too,  I would assume 

Yep

[Bassomylord]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think some will be re-contracted, Baker, Hunt and Paterson.  Some financial benefits re Baker and Hunt  that even extending by a year, helps cut Amortisation costs by the best part of £700k for this year.  That needs to be factored in against the cost of replacing them.

Do they have 1 year extensions in their contracts? If not then there is a big assumption that they would be happy to sign on.

Hunt for example openly said there have been no talks, and that his family still lives up north?

I would be amazed if Baker got a new deal....both long and short term injuries, on a decent wedge.....granted due to covid wages elsewhere may be different to what he may have expected pre virus but will have suiters.

 

[The Bard]

Always find these kind of original posts a bit weird as though getting rid of well paid, underperforming players in the middle of their contract in the middle of a global pandemic that has created huge financial uncertainty is straight forward.

I can see the future being very much like Rugby with more players going to the end of their contracts.  Contracts will become shorter and more performance related.  When you think about it the transfer fee is slightly bonkers - I can only really see it staying for young promising players or top level proven players.  Our  'model' if that what it is, is based on being the middle man.  Buying lower league and selling to lower half prem.   

In theory we are in a strong position but one can't help but look at the decision makers we have and worry.  

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Do they have 1 year extensions in their contracts? If not then there is a big assumption that they would be happy to sign on.

Hunt for example openly said there have been no talks, and that his family still lives up north?

I would be amazed if Baker got a new deal....both long and short term injuries, on a decent wedge.....granted due to covid wages elsewhere may be different to what he may have expected pre virus but will have suiters.

 

Not the 3 i specifically mentioned. Weimann does though.

Certainly no bigger an assumption than your OP...

Hunt also said that he’s happy to sit down when club / agent decide it’s the right time.

At Championship level, must players who beyond their development years, e.g. 25/26+ are likely to be on the best wage they are gonna get because of Covid.  That’s not to say they can’t get a deal somewhere else, but I don’t think they’ll be able to command a better wage in lieu of being a free transfer like they have previously.

If Baker is on £15-20k pw (Kid said he was on £17k) is he likely to get that elsewhere in the summer.  As a free transfer he might be able to make some of that up as a signing on fee, but I don’t think his position as a free agent is as strong as previously.

So I think there’s a bit of parity between club and player in the free agent market this summer.  Gonna be interesting to see how this window plays out first.

55 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Always find these kind of original posts a bit weird as though getting rid of well paid, underperforming players in the middle of their contract in the middle of a global pandemic that has created huge financial uncertainty is straight forward.

I can see the future being very much like Rugby with more players going to the end of their contracts.  Contracts will become shorter and more performance related.  When you think about it the transfer fee is slightly bonkers - I can only really see it staying for young promising players or top level proven players.  Our  'model' if that what it is, is based on being the middle man.  Buying lower league and selling to lower half prem.   

In theory we are in a strong position but one can't help but look at the decision makers we have and worry.  

 

Very sensible post....and I can see that being very much the case.  Protect your young assets, especially if through academy or bought v.young.  Rely on free transfers for your over 27/28s.  Sheffield Utd did a bit of that when they came up.

[Sheltons Army]

56 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I would not mind seeing quite a few released, or some sold if there is interest and for the right money.

Not as many as suggested here though.

The likes of Rowe, Baker, Adelakun, Watkins can be moved on. I expect Walsh might be leaving, who knows what is going on there.

Why would you ‘move on’ Rowe ?

Value for money wise , availability wise , flexibility wise...... I’d be keeping him without question 

Ideal to have in squad IMHO