Time for a clear out - starting January

[Sheltons Army]

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Dasilva and Pring should be enough by then I think. And Nurse apparently impressing in league two, though injured at the moment.

Rowe will be 33 a month into next season.

I actually don't mind him centre back in a 3, but realistically not really good enough there if we want to push on.

I think he's improved this season at full back or wing back. But recent performances not been the best. I think Hunt's not been so good recently either on the other side, but he does offer more going forward.

Pring now impressing in league one, I think he will be competing with Dasilva next season.

I'd actually recall Pring next week for the remainder of this season.

I don't see the point in having 3 left backs. One will likely not play much or at all.

Yes Jon

Your point about Pring is very valid

If DH & Co are satisfied re JDSs injury issue and availability and Pring is ready for regular first team action then I’d think again on Rowe

Pring has only recently or in the middle of getting a starting spot at Pompey so it’s still a big ask

Depends what wages he’s on but he’s dead handy ,covering 3 or 4 positions,  and Reliable , and a good influence / role model , to have in the squad

[RedRock]

Whatever.

We need to start getting ruthless. We’ve been a cosy little option for too long.

Why are we so inconsistent? Because we play inconsistent players who know they’ll get away with it, week in, week out.

Seriously. Bents, Kalas possibly Wells - if he was interested - are the only players that can get us to the next level. Need another 4 more of similar quality and then - provided they are all welded into an efficient machine -  pad out with top Academy products and decent  journey-men. 

We’re currently light years way. 

 

[GrahamC]

5 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

If DH & Co are satisfied re JDSs injury issue and availability and Pring is ready for regular first team action then I’d think again on Rowe

Pring has only recently or in the middle of getting a starting spot at Pompey so it’s still a big ask

Depends what wages he’s on but he’s dead handy ,covering 3 or 4 positions,  and Reliable , and a good influence / role model , to have in the squad

I would definitely give Rowe another year.

This season Dasilva has only been fit enough to start 8 games so far, last season he didn’t manage to start even half of them, Rowe has a far better availability record, is a bottom third wage earner, has a superb attitude & although he hasn’t featured there much for us, is also midfield cover.

This season has showed we are prone to injuries (& certainly have a fair few injury prone players), no way could we have just Pring as the LB option if Dasilva is out injured yet again.

Brunt, Adelakun, Mariappa, Watkins, Hinds & Wollacott are all certs to go for me, I am in two minds about Baker, I would probably offer Hunt another year, because we have no young RB coming through who could be first choice.

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Yes Jon

Your point about Pring is very valid

If DH & Co are satisfied re JDSs injury issue and availability and Pring is ready for regular first team action then I’d think again on Rowe

Pring has only recently or in the middle of getting a starting spot at Pompey so it’s still a big ask

Depends what wages he’s on but he’s dead handy ,covering 3 or 4 positions,  and Reliable , and a good influence / role model , to have in the squad

I’d be looking to bring him into the coaching set up....assumes he’s doing / done some badges.  Talks like a coach / manager.  I’d be thinking the same for Chris Martin the year after too. Ditto assumption applies.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

22 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Let's be honest we ain't going up and we certainly aren't going down....Time to start the clear out in Jan and get some money for some of these players.

Funny how Paterson has suddenly become injured.....im guessing a club might be in for him Jan.

Sell Diedhiou Hunt Pato Baker Walsh, if we can, if not release in the summer....good servants but we need to freshen this club up. Keep Mariappa, Rowe, Brunt, Gilmartin Weimann until the summer as zero resale value anyway....thanks for your efforts but we need to upgrade.

Moore,Massengo,Adelukan, O'Dowda thank you for your efforts but sell at the end of the season....none of them are good enough for where we want to be.....if there are any suiters of course.

Palmer, Wells and Martin will be impossible to shift.....a shame especially Wells very surprised we forked out a long contract on high wages for a 30 year old.

Build this team around Bently Kalas and Vyner.

This club is too soft, too nice and too comfortable for people to coast through their careers, time to change tact!!

**** me it would be cheeper to buy a new club.  That's the whole squad nearly who we going to play until May? 

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, RedRock said:

Whatever.

We need to start getting ruthless. We’ve been a cosy little option for too long.

Why are we so inconsistent? Because we play inconsistent players who know they’ll get away with it, week in, week out.

Seriously. Bents, Kalas possibly Wells - if he was interested - are the only players that can get us to the next level. Need another 4 more of similar quality and then - provided they are all welded into an efficient machine -  pad out with top Academy products and decent  journey-men. 

We’re currently light years way. 

 

Wells? He has got to be one of the worst strikers we've had, needs 8 chances to score one,

I'd rather we had Steve Torpey back then Wells 

[Bassomylord]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not the 3 i specifically mentioned. Weimann does though.

Certainly no bigger an assumption than your OP...

Hunt also said that he’s happy to sit down when club / agent decide it’s the right time.

At Championship level, must players who beyond their development years, e.g. 25/26+ are likely to be on the best wage they are gonna get because of Covid.  That’s not to say they can’t get a deal somewhere else, but I don’t think they’ll be able to command a better wage in lieu of being a free transfer like they have previously.

If Baker is on £15-20k pw (Kid said he was on £17k) is he likely to get that elsewhere in the summer.  As a free transfer he might be able to make some of that up as a signing on fee, but I don’t think his position as a free agent is as strong as previously.

So I think there’s a bit of parity between club and player in the free agent market this summer.  Gonna be interesting to see how this window plays out first.

Very sensible post....and I can see that being very much the case.  Protect your young assets, especially if through academy or bought v.young.  Rely on free transfers for your over 27/28s.  Sheffield Utd did a bit of that when they came up.

So again there is an argument that all 3 of them will look elsewhere. Yes I do agree wages will almost certainly be lowered now due to Covid I think players are going to have to bite the bullet on that.

Free agents, loans, the odd signing....there is plenty of talent free in the summer....and there is nothing wrong with signing older players....that is the route we should go down. After all, the likes of Vyner, DaSilva,Bakinson,Nagy, Semenyo are all young with potential to go up in a lot of value.

 

[Bassomylord]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I would definitely give Rowe another year.

This season Dasilva has only been fit enough to start 8 games so far, last season he didn’t manage to start even half of them, Rowe has a far better availability record, is a bottom third wage earner, has a superb attitude & although he hasn’t featured there much for us, is also midfield cover.

This season has showed we are prone to injuries (& certainly have a fair few injury prone players), no way could we have just Pring as the LB option if Dasilva is out injured yet again.

Brunt, Adelakun, Mariappa, Watkins, Hinds & Wollacott are all certs to go for me, I am in two minds about Baker, I would probably offer Hunt another year, because we have no young RB coming through who could be first choice.

Give Rowe another year? Seriously?

We want to be fighting for promotion and yes he could do a job but like Smith we need better.

 

[redsquirrel]

waste of time getting promoted this season. id keep rowe for another year,and hunt,both pretty reliable. see how things pan out next season,wont be much funding about for a bit until things get back to normal and no point reaching the dizzy heights if we cant go and watch.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

I've got it, we're going to sign Dean Windas in January for free and play him in 6 different positions. 

[Simon79]

52 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

Give Rowe another year? Seriously?

We want to be fighting for promotion and yes he could do a job but like Smith we need better.

 

The same Smith who has played fairly regularly for the team sitting second currently. COYR 

[Bassomylord]

1 minute ago, Simon79 said:

The same Smith who has played fairly regularly for the team sitting second currently. COYR 

Release Smith but not Rowe would be a very BCFC thing to do.

[lenred]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

If we look at where we are in the table and that we should be better when injured players return, then that suggests to me we aren't too far away.

I'm sure they will be ruthless like we showed we are with letting Korey go in the summer.

Incredibly ‘ruthless’ letting our best and only combative midfielder go to a rival currently sitting near the top of the table. Brilliant bit of business that! 

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, redsquirrel said:

waste of time getting promoted this season. id keep rowe for another year,and hunt,both pretty reliable. see how things pan out next season,wont be much funding about for a bit until things get back to normal and no point reaching the dizzy heights if we cant go and watch.

The only advantage of getting promoted this year would be the parachute payments we would receive when we come straight back down.

[Simon79]

19 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

Release Smith but not Rowe would be a very BCFC thing to do.

Totally agree. Really silly decision in my opinion. I don’t think many of our other players would of had a choice of Swansea, Notts Forest & a few others if they were released. COYR

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, lenred said:

Incredibly ‘ruthless’ letting our best and only combative midfielder go to a rival currently sitting near the top of the table. Brilliant bit of business that! 

16 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Looks a mistake now of course. I guess they were thinking Williams takes his place. Not sure if they knew how bad Walsh injury was.

Brunt signing seems a weird one though.

His contract was effectively over on 30.06, and he was playing whilst picking up his obligatory one month wage having not signed anywhere else (at that point).  He didn’t play final game as the Swansea defeat ruled out mathematically any hope of a play-off spot and he didn’t want to risk injury.  Sensible imho.  Wasn’t on retained list either.  Nor was he offered a contract by City.

In terms of the point he went to Swansea, Walsh had done his quad at that point, but it was an 8-weeker, due back early September.  Williams was probably well in the melting pot at that point too.

Semantics, but we didn’t let him go to a rival...he wasn’t our player.

I loved Korey Smith, and although I would’ve been keen to retain him, even to cover RWB too, I totally see why we didn’t offer him a new deal.  Speculation only, but I very much suspect any Swansea wage would’ve blown ours out of the water.

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

His contract was effectively over on 30.06, and he was playing whilst picking up his obligatory one month wage having not signed anywhere else (at that point).  He didn’t play final game as the Swansea defeat ruled out mathematically any hope of a play-off spot and he didn’t want to risk injury.  Sensible imho.  Wasn’t on retained list either.  Nor was he offered a contract by City.

In terms of the point he went to Swansea, Walsh had done his quad at that point, but it was an 8-weeker, due back early September.  Williams was probably well in the melting pot at that point too.

I loved Korey Smith, and although I would’ve been keen to retain him, even to cover RWB too, I totally see why we didn’t offer him a new deal.  Speculation only, but I very much suspect any Swansea wage would’ve blown ours out of the water.

I loved him too (& honestly would have kept him over Brunt, if I knew that was someone we had lined up, that isn’t said with hindsight) but he started just 19 games last season, only 3 in the one before, so I doubt very many people were thinking someone who had made 22 starts in the previous 92 games was worth another deal when we thought we had both Williams & Morrell to do that job.

Walsh is a red herring for me, as fit or not, he’s a different type of player.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

35 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

Totally agree. Really silly decision in my opinion. I don’t think many of our other players would of had a choice of Swansea, Notts Forest & a few others if they were released. COYR

Or maybe he felt he needed a new challenge and the club, recognising his value for City over the years, felt it couldn’t stand in his way.

[Simon79]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Or maybe he felt he needed a new challenge and the club, recognising his value for City over the years, felt it couldn’t stand in his way.

I’m fairly sure he said the club told him that they couldn’t offer him anything at that point. He was keen to get things sorted as his little lad was about to start school & at that point didn’t know where that would be. COYR 

[Major Isewater]

22 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

A good manager, will get a team promoted within two years.

History tells me that.

Somebody pointed out the other day, jj, sc, gj, all did this.

 

That Alan Dicks was rubbish according to your theory.

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Brunt signing seems a weird one though.

We needed a bit of experience in the treatment room.

 

[Major Isewater]

10 hours ago, BigTone said:

The only advantage of getting promoted this year would be the parachute payments we would receive when we come straight back down.

Don’t you just know that we will go up the same year they decide to end parachute payments . 
 

 

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Don’t you just know that we will go up the same year they decide to end parachute payments . 
 

 

That had crossed my mind also

[City oz]

39 minutes ago, BigTone said:

That had crossed my mind also

Well no need to worry about it this season then  oops or probably the next 

[The Bard]

14 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Give Rowe another year? Seriously?

We want to be fighting for promotion and yes he could do a job but like Smith we need better.

 

You've got a remarkably consistent record.

Of being wrong.

[Prinny]

We definitely need to make better transfer decisions and evolve the squad with quality. If you look at the first team and ask yourself the question (ignore their current deals) (ignore the youth players)

"Who would I be comfortable giving a new three year contract to based on how they're playing?"

It's not a long list IMO. Mine would be Bentley, Kalas, Vyner, Bakinson, Semenyo. Anyone else? Maybe Nagy. Maybe Dasilva (injuries a concern now though)? Who are the players who are the future?

So while a big clear out sounds rash, it's also a good time to buy (or pick up frees) when the market is low. There's a lot of people coming out of contract, who clubs will not want to give long deals to, and a lot of clubs much worse off than us. Smart choices now could be huge. Re-signing all the players who have already failed multiple times to achieve promotion here isn't a great idea if you want to go up.

So if the OP said, we need to evolve the squad and these players (listed in the OP) aren't that good, which I think is what was meant, I pretty much agree.

[REDOXO]

FFS we need a clear out in the window with a dozen players injured. Who the eff is going to buy them. We are so strapped for players we may well be giving starts to our apprentices tomorrow and still people on here talk shite!

[Davefevs]

43 minutes ago, Prinny said:

We definitely need to make better transfer decisions and evolve the squad with quality. If you look at the first team and ask yourself the question (ignore their current deals) (ignore the youth players)

"Who would I be comfortable giving a new three year contract to based on how they're playing?"

It's not a long list IMO. Mine would be Bentley, Kalas, Vyner, Bakinson, Semenyo. Anyone else? Maybe Nagy. Maybe Dasilva (injuries a concern now though)? Who are the players who are the future?

So while a big clear out sounds rash, it's also a good time to buy (or pick up frees) when the market is low. There's a lot of people coming out of contract, who clubs will not want to give long deals to, and a lot of clubs much worse off than us. Smart choices now could be huge. Re-signing all the players who have already failed multiple times to achieve promotion here isn't a great idea if you want to go up.

So if the OP said, we need to evolve the squad and these players (listed in the OP) aren't that good, which I think is what was meant, I pretty much agree.

Re your bold question (in more ways than one!) Yep, that is a good way of looking at it, and adds a better black and white dimension to my earlier comment about thinking beyond the current contract and recruiting for long term.

So, yes a good starting principle.

What you might want to then look at a few that didn’t make cut and consider the same question but for a 2 year deal.  I might add Pato into the list....but you do have to stop somewhere.

The final but about evolving the squad is in effect exactly what we haven’t been doing.  I’d love to know what the recruitment strategy really is.

[Never to the dark side]

When I saw the title for the first time I thought the OP was disposing of their footy programmmes and match day videos and DVD's.

Ah well I can't hit the target every time

[Prinny]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The final but about evolving the squad is in effect exactly what we haven’t been doing.  I’d love to know what the recruitment strategy really is.

We've made every type of signing IMO. Which is fine right? You want the club to explore every avenue to success. We've failed with the talent ID in two areas.

The Wells signing as the final piece or the jigsaw, when we still haven't attempted to use him how he's been successful previously.

And the home runs of young talented (and expensive) players who will naturally improve along with our great coaching! and generate transfer fees for us. Dasilva (hurt and not much/better than Rowe) Massengo (benched) Palmer (loaned out).

That's ~£10-15 million and ~60k p/w wages (a total guess) of failed squad evolution. That's a lot of failure.

Isn't it kinda scary that we can't come up with a bunch of players we definitely want to keep for the medium to long term.

I'd be more inclined to "clear out" the transfer team and whoever is constructing the squad.