Did we lose yesterday?

[City 62]

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

[Robin101]

Yeah they picked up points against Watford and Brentford... but they also haven’t won in 11 games and earlier this season lost 7 games in a row. We made it look like extremely hard work.

As DaveFevs helpfully pointed out, our starting 11 is not far removed from our early games this season, despite injuries.

It’s not good enough. That’s why there’s negativity.

[Capman]

Well put. Holden has probably had the worst possible time to start in management. He has had injuries, covid rules, players self isolating, training ground issues and yet if the team puts in a poor performance people are straight on his case. 
The season should be judged at the end, not 21 games in. 
I agree we have not been good enough in the last month but every team goes through difficult spells. Holden watches the matches, he knows as well as we do. The over reaction of some is embarrassing. 

[ReggyRed]

Win, lose or draw one thing can be sure this forum will be toxic. Doesn’t surprise me anymore.

[Robbored]

Like all teams in or near the Championship drop zone Wycombe made it difficult and city struggled to break them down - no surprise there.

Having only seen the Robins Tv highlights it seemed that Bentley had bugger to do except pick the ball out of the net after the unfortunate deflection.

Had Wells and Semenyo passed to the unmarked Martin instead of shooting the score line  could have been greater.

CoD looked a real threat and deserved the assist for Martins goal  and Famara’s rocket was a spectacular finish and no more than City deserved.

It seems the match wasn’t great to watch but a win is a win. 

[Andy082005]

18 minutes ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

Stop being so short sighted 

We played a team who have no right to be in this league. 

7 of the 11 started away against Stoke. Arguably our best performance of the season 

[Super]

23 minutes ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

Agree with your last point. The main issue is the actual football which is as bad as i can remember slow boring and predictable. 

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, ReggyRed said:

Win, lose or draw one thing can be sure this forum will be toxic. Doesn’t surprise me anymore.

While I may not agree with some posts, and some are frankly ridiculous , it is a forum and would close down pretty quickly if A) Everyone agreed B) No one moaned.

It does surprise me when some people say we won, you should be happy or, we lost you can't be happy. There have been plenty of games we've won, but there have been lots to complain/analyse/question . Similarly there have been games we've lost I've seen things that have been promising .

Yesterday we started ok, got a goal up but wasted any positions or chances we made by lax or poor play, bad touch etc. Then we settled into a pattern we have had lately, dominated and out passed by a side that doesn't rely on possession. Rightly people question where we are and what we are doing. I find it interesting when a poster points out things I've missed, good or bad.

Yesterday a win was important, there was plenty to question but 3 points were the main thing. 

[Blackbird1]

So relieved to get three points, but there is a serious lack of understanding on here as to how football really works. Even one usual suspect suggests we sack everyone including Steve and start from scratch! Baby and bathwater? If anyone in their right mind thinks our injuries don't  have an impact on playing style need to give their heads a wobble. Don't fall into that trap Dave your better than that. Talk about over reactions? Basso,comes over as someone with not only multiple accounts, but multiple personalities too, rarely have I read so much rubbish, even on here. But its a free World, so carry on with the madness. 

[Top Robin]

It doesn't matter if we win, lose or draw if the performance is dreadful and team is not really showing signs of improvement. 

I do appreciate we have players coming back who could make us better but for the here and now - we are really poor.

[Alex_BCFC]

The football should be better despite the injuries but the amount of points kind of balances that off.
 

I will judge Holden when he doesn’t have a huge list of injuries including keys ones like Masson, Baker, Williams and Dasilva.

Having said that, I don’t expect us to get hammered by Rotherham even with the current situation.

[bcfc01]

26 minutes ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

Prior to yesterday, Wycombe had played 10 with five being draws and the rest defeats by a one goal margin.

That suggests to me that they are not a pushover and to expect us to routinely beat them is naive.

However, if Martin, Wells, and Semenyo had scored it may well have turned out that some of the people on here wouldn't be posting. Its fine margins and we did just enough to get the points. Not a great performance, especially second half, but three points in the bag.

Someone mentioned that we had 7 starters that had played in the Stoke game earlier in the season which, for me, is a meaningless observation. It could also be said that we had 4 missing from that game or 36.4% which may affect the formation and tactics. As I said, a meaningless observation.

Also, we don't know who is playing whilst not 100% fit after knocks or the effects of Covid. Its not all black and white and I didn't see many complaining about our early season form (other than the usual ones). Form is temporary and there is every reason to think that it will return at some point when we have a squad free from injury, niggles, and the effects of Covid.

The main criticism I have is the squad having a soft underbelly (aside from a few individuals tbf) which showed up in the Rotherham game where they just bullied City for most of the game. That isn't acceptable and needs sorting out pronto.

[TonyTonyTony]

18 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

It doesn't matter if we win, lose or draw 

That seems to sum the forum up at the moment.

[Bobbie]

48 minutes ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

Thank you. Completely agree. The negativity on here really puts me off coming on here. We don’t have a given right to win games in this league, it’s tough and we have a huge injury list and are still fighting.
 

Good on you Dean, the silent majority will support you through the good and the tough times. 

[petehinton]

I’ve enjoyed winning a game To go one point off playoffs, has somehow turned into Brentford being better off after selling Bentley in some quarters

[Rossi the Robin]

I can’t remember 2 halves of good football in a while now, just glimpses but generally poor

Let’s see how we get on against Luton and Brentford- if we get anything from these games will be a bonus unfortunately 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Prior to yesterday, Wycombe had played 10 with five being draws and the rest defeats by a one goal margin.

That suggests to me that they are not a pushover and to expect us to routinely beat them is naive.

However, if Martin, Wells, and Semenyo had scored it may well have turned out that some of the people on here wouldn't be posting. Its fine margins and we did just enough to get the points. Not a great performance, especially second half, but three points in the bag.

Someone mentioned that we had 7 starters that had played in the Stoke game earlier in the season which, for me, is a meaningless observation. It could also be said that we had 4 missing from that game or 36.4% which may affect the formation and tactics. As I said, a meaningless observation.

Also, we don't know who is playing whilst not 100% fit after knocks or the effects of Covid. Its not all black and white and I didn't see many complaining about our early season form (other than the usual ones). Form is temporary and there is every reason to think that it will return at some point when we have a squad free from injury, niggles, and the effects of Covid.

The main criticism I have is the squad having a soft underbelly (aside from a few individuals tbf) which showed up in the Rotherham game where they just bullied City for most of the game. That isn't acceptable and needs sorting out pronto.

That was me!

My meaningless observation () is that people keep saying we have a whole team out, which although true, is a situation we’ve had all season.  Hence 7 starters the same, and Kalas, Nagy and O’Dowda are all full internationals.  The point imho is that I don’t think injuries are the reason for some of the very poor football we are playing at the mo’.  The players are of sufficient quality to play better than I have seen of late.

There were some nice flashes of play yesterday, but I honestly do not think we should be so poor as we were second half.  Wycombe controlled large spells in the second half. I liked our defending, albeit got dragged deeper and deeper.  No coincidence that we are seeing deflected goals conceded since we’ve sat deeper either.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

Thank you. Completely agree. The negativity on here really puts me off coming on here. We don’t have a given right to win games in this league, it’s tough and we have a huge injury list and are still fighting.
 

Good on you Dean, the silent majority will support you through the good and the tough times. 

I don’t think any / many of us think we have a right to win any game.

I’m still fully behind Dean, but I think he’s made mistakes of late, and I think also that the team that cross the line aren’t playing well either.

Delighted with 3 points, but of character to be second best second half and snatch the win, that looked very likely at h-t.

I think we played much better football earlier this season, we aren’t doing many of the basic things we were doing then.  I expect more from the players on show yesterday, especially after an 8 day prep.

[Numero Uno]

I do get the frustration tbh. The football has been generally poor and year after year of watching a 42% possession side at home is grating with many. I just happen to think blaming Holden is the easy way out, the cowards way even because the people who are really at fault are people many fans do not want to question.

On yesterday everyone knows, whether you are positive, negative or in between, that we played well ENOUGH first half yesterday to have put the game to bed. We should have been 3-0 up at the break no doubt about it.

We didn’t, the lack of confidence crept in, we got deeper because the bloody ball wouldn’t stick up top, the inevitable if slightly fortunate equaliser was banged in and we found it hard work. That was down to three players primarily rather than a whole team shit show I think. Three players who are normally blame free because the ball doesn’t get to them as often as it did yesterday!!!

The question now is can we show a positive outlook against teams who are better than Wycombe and teams who sit in which Wycombe most certainly didn’t. They had a go and gave us room to play. The next time we meet a Birmingham type side at home will show whether work on the training ground is paying off.

[Sixtyseconds]

It’s not what people want.

Or quite a lot don’t.

It’s not front foot football.

If this was boxing its like expecting to see somebody go out like Hatton.

And getting a shit Johnny Nelson.

Boring.

AND.

Shit.

[BanburyRed]

Judging by the highlights we had enough chances to win 2 games, let alone just one.  A deflected shot for their goal and one other half chance.  Wells, COD, Martin, Semenyo all wasted chances to add to the score when in control in the first half.

Ninth in the table, 30+pts on the board, yes our home form ain't the best right now, but christ, we'd have taken that with any new manager in charge after LJ. I'd rather be where we are right now than Derby, Sheff Wed, Forest et al - negativity or otherwise.

[bcfc01]

Just now, Davefevs said:

That was me!

My meaningless observation () is that people keep saying we have a whole team out, which although true, is a situation we’ve had all season.  Hence 7 starters the same, and Kalas, Nagy and O’Dowda are all full internationals.  The point imho is that I don’t think injuries are the reason for some of the very poor football we are playing at the mo’.  The players are of sufficient quality to play better than I have seen of late.

There were some nice flashes of play yesterday, but I honestly do not think we should be so poor as we were second half.  Wycombe controlled large spells in the second half. I liked our defending, albeit got dragged deeper and deeper.  No coincidence that we are seeing deflected goals conceded since we’ve sat deeper either.

Agree with the bold bit. But with regard to injuries my point is that, whilst we are aware of the long term and some short term injuries which are keeping some players out, we are not fully aware of who is playing through injuries or Covid effects. If a player(s) is/are not 100% they aint going to perform at 100%. Reading between the lines from what Holden has said, I'm thinking that this could be the case and, as you are aware, it only takes a couple or three players at less than 100% to have an effect on the team. And while its good to see the likes of Opi Edwards getting a few minutes, there is a reason for it other than he has earned it imo.

(I picked up the 7 starters thing from this thread btw - not really had the time to be on here and read through threads for a while until today).

 

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Judging by the highlights we had enough chances to win 2 games, let alone just one.  A deflected shot for their goal and one other half chance.  Wells, COD, Martin, Semenyo all wasted chances to add to the score when in control in the first half.

Ninth in the table, 30+pts on the board, yes our home form ain't the best right now, but christ, we'd have taken that with any new manager in charge after LJ. I'd rather be where we are right now than Derby, Sheff Wed, Forest et al - negativity or otherwise.

Totally agree with all that. However there does come a time when players are fit, transfer windows come and go and people want to see us play on the front foot at home as a principle rather than a rare occurrence.

Holden is doing alright with what he’s got imo.

[CityFarAndWide]

6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Totally agree with all that. However there does come a time when players are fit, transfer windows come and go and people want to see us play on the front foot at home as a principle rather than a rare occurrence.

Holden is doing alright with what he’s got imo.

This.

Ill snatch every point we can get our hands on at the moment and I certainly don't expect much, both results and performance wise at the moment but when does that change? when 2 players are back? 5? I share the same frustration as many others I imagine that even when players were/are fit we especially at home are rarely on the front foot. 

[BCFCGav]

Performances are the issue and are what’s causing frustration. We do go a LONG time without carving out a chance lately. 

That said we are expectant buggers on here. We have between 9 and 12 injuries as things stand, and need to temper our expectations as such. I’m over the moon with yesterday, as I just want us safe this season given circumstances. They aren’t Holden’s fault. It’s the physios that I think need looking at...

[2015]

Can't keep blaming injuries on poor performances. As Davefevs highlighted in another thread, there is only 4 players who didn't play our best game vs Stoke in September who didn't play yesterday.

Yes we had chances to win the game heavily, but we didn't take them. We also were relying on counter attacking to get these opportunities, against bloody Wycombe... At home!

It's just not what you expect when you get promised front foot football and with the money been spent over the last few years, to yet again be so disappointing at Home, just for me it isn't good enough

The result we got was the bare minimum in my eyes and performance was again, below par.

[Blackbird1]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think any / many of us think we have a right to win any game.

I’m still fully behind Dean, but I think he’s made mistakes of late, and I think also that the team that cross the line aren’t playing well either.

Delighted with 3 points, but of character to be second best second half and snatch the win, that looked very likely at h-t.

I think we played much better football earlier this season, we aren’t doing many of the basic things we were doing then.  I expect more from the players on show yesterday, especially after an 8 day prep.

Losing three on the trot we are hardly going to play  exciting expansive football, was always going to be a tight scrap, we all knew that.

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Agree with the bold bit. But with regard to injuries my point is that, whilst we are aware of the long term and some short term injuries which are keeping some players out, we are not fully aware of who is playing through injuries or Covid effects. If a player(s) is/are not 100% they aint going to perform at 100%. Reading between the lines from what Holden has said, I'm thinking that this could be the case and, as you are aware, it only takes a couple or three players at less than 100% to have an effect on the team. And while its good to see the likes of Opi Edwards getting a few minutes, there is a reason for it other than he has earned it imo.

(I picked up the 7 starters thing from this thread btw - not really had the time to be on here and read through threads for a while until today).

 

I think my other thread was also saying that we’d had 8 days to prepare too (a rarity this season), yet I didn’t see much difference.  Footballers rarely play feeling 100%, they are always carrying niggles.

30 minutes ago, CityFarAndWide said:

This.

Ill snatch every point we can get our hands on at the moment and I certainly don't expect much, both results and performance wise at the moment but when does that change? when 2 players are back? 5? I share the same frustration as many others I imagine that even when players were/are fit we especially at home are rarely on the front foot. 

Every point is worth something in the Champ, those points here and there instead of a defeat are most welcome indeed.  Sometimes, e.g. Brum, you play ok first half, but then struggle second half.  At 0-0 after an hour / 65 minutes, I think sometimes you have to accept that it’s not your day and although you want the winner you don’t over-push for it....don’t lose one point, take what you’ve got.

25 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

Performances are the issue and are what’s causing frustration. We do go a LONG time without carving out a chance lately. 

That said we are expectant buggers on here. We have between 9 and 12 injuries as things stand, and need to temper our expectations as such. I’m over the moon with yesterday, as I just want us safe this season given circumstances. They aren’t Holden’s fault. It’s the physios that I think need looking at...

Forget the xG scores, I know it’s not for everyone, but I use these timelines to see the regularity of chances.

From the Wells chance in the first minute of the second half we then went over 35 minutes before creating another.  During that period Wycombe controlled parts and you can see they had several chances, albeit little of note.

Its those long spells that get me.  We don’t control games.

18 minutes ago, Blackbird1 said:

Losing three on the trot we are hardly going to play  exciting expansive football, was always going to be a tight scrap, we all knew that.

I’m not asking for expansive football, honestly I’m not.  But second half was just win it back, give it away, go deeper and deeper.  I expect better than what I saw yesterday.  I don’t think I’m asking too much.  More of the first half type stuff would’ve been fine.

[Bassomylord]

2 hours ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

#clearoutneeded

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

My meaningless observation () is that people keep saying we have a whole team out, which although true, is a situation we’ve had all season.  Hence 7 starters the same, and Kalas, Nagy and O’Dowda are all full internationals.  The point imho is that I don’t think injuries are the reason for some of the very poor football we are playing at the mo’.  The players are of sufficient quality to play better than I have seen of late.

Sorry Dave, but I think that’s a bit naive.  One of the important impacts of the injury situation (I think the worst I have experienced in 50+ years of supporting City) is that we have no flexibility.  We have a bench that isn’t strong enough for the championship; if we have a sending-off we are significantly weakened; if someone has a dip in form we often have no viable alternatives.  Football is a squad game these days, never more than during the pandemic with the fearful schedule of games, and having eleven fit starters is almost neither here nor there.  We need 22 players in order to compete on a level playing field with most teams, and at present we have 14 at best.