Holden interview on RB

[fgrsimon]

10 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

 Our centre back cost more than the whole Luton side. We had a 6m centre forward on the bench.

 

And probably the Wycombe side as well.

That is a very good point, yes the injuries have been bad but what's left should still be able to compete with Rotherham, Milwall, Luton and Wycombe and we've taken 3 points from 12 against these, with Wycombe unlucky not to get a point.

 

[bemmyredjeff]

I'm surprised ANDY082005 hasn't been on here taking the accolades. Afterall , despite being continually ridiculed on here ,  hasn't he  been  saying all this for most of the season about Holden being out of his depth.....laughable !

[Kid in the Riot]

16 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Pete....I genuinely think they would’ve liked Hughton....but not on his “terms”.  I can’t find the right words but imagine Father Ted and Mrs Doyle and her cups of tea, and you’ll get the gist of what I’m trying to say.  I think they thought they’d grind him down and he’d accept to work in their model.  He didn’t.

Hughton didn't turn down the job though, he was just never offered it? 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

On 29/12/2020 at 22:33, New Dazzler said:

What is worrying me is that some of the Johnson post bad match interview cliches are creeping in.  "We go again" was used at least twice, making excuses and then claiming there are "no excuses", and as said above stating that we were the better team, when we clearly were not!

What's wrong with "we go again" it's a common phrase meaning it's just one game, and we play again soon.   Loads of managers use it and plenty of cliché laiden post match interviews. 

What's wrong with his post match interview is he's simply said we were the better team and didn't deserve to lose.  Which is clearly wrong what he should have done is said where he thought we were better and he does to a degree highlight why we lost around the mistakes, he does overemphise the posatives.  It's hard without throwing the kids under the bus so it's a bit of a fine line when you're losing. 

 

[Andy082005]

5 hours ago, bemmyredjeff said:

I'm surprised ANDY082005 hasn't been on here taking the accolades. Afterall , despite being continually ridiculed on here ,  hasn't he  been  saying all this for most of the season about Holden being out of his depth.....laughable !

It's just a real sad state of affairs. For me I have come to accept that as long as Lansdown and Ashton run the show...we will never make the Prem 

Appointing Holden and trying to sell it to the fans as the right decision, was almost as laughable as when Boris Johnson stood in front of the cameras and told the nation they were doing a good job around this pandemic 

How both Lansdown Junior and Senior,  as well as  Ashton , have the audacity to stand there and tell us it was the right decision and expect us to buy it, is an insult to us as fans 

**** em. 

 

 

[IAmNick]

26 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Basically relearn or reevaluate, take a step back and try and see things differently. Reflective practice is wonderful in some much can take a look at where you are as fans, what you want and what you expect are you r needs going to be met and if not work out what you want to do. 

... and perhaps people have done this, and just come to a different conclusion on what they want than you?

Maybe people want to analyse how we play, or the statistical facts, or how the club is run. Maybe people want us to get promoted and do better and endlessly discuss our performances and how close we are to that goal. Maybe that's what they enjoy as a fan? You can enjoy what you've said above, that's fine but dumping everyone else in a "collective moaners society / conspiracy theorist" bucket is just lazy. 

I think there's loads of really intelligent discussion and if all you've got from it is the above I can only assume you either haven't bothered to read it, or haven't understood it.

[Lanterne Rouge]

9 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

... and perhaps people have done this, and just come to a different conclusion on what they want than you?

Maybe people want to analyse how we play, or the statistical facts, or how the club is run. Maybe people want us to get promoted and do better and endlessly discuss our performances and how close we are to that goal. Maybe that's what they enjoy as a fan? You can enjoy what you've said above, that's fine but dumping everyone else in a "collective moaners society / conspiracy theorist" bucket is just lazy. 

I think there's loads of really intelligent discussion and if all you've got from it is the above I can only assume you either haven't bothered to read it, or haven't understood it.

There is and it`s one of the great things about OTIB but there are also a fair few who just post ASHTON OUT! or similar, often creating a new thread to do so, and that just gets tedious after a while.

[Swede]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Hughton didn't turn down the job though, he was just never offered it? 

Hughton went on public record enthusing about the merits of the  job after turning down other jobs offered. His previous experience at this level and impressive CV of playing at the very highest level and on the international stage including winning major trophies and the many contacts he has made  obviously comes at a price.

Then the directors were so impressed with Holden's presentation, the fact that he knew the players and his experience of playing third tier football. He also supported Manchester United as a boy so he also has that affinity with the fans which is so important that he got the job. It was nothing to do with money.

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Great for you.

I'm glad that you are happy going on and on and over the same things again and again, without any difference.  I'm absolutely happy for the people who dream or want promotion (However we have to earn it, it's not a divine right) I'm happy that people have different view points.

However here it's in the main a collective of misery. I genuinely cant remember the last time that there was something that wasnt full of heavy drama or something pulling other posters or players or whoever down. 

"We've played this new youth guy. Awesome!

How did he get on?"

There'd be multiple responses about how crap the academy is, that the player would never make it, probably two threads critiquing every move and precisely naff all about, seeing the potential or talking up as to where people could go.

If that makes you happy then awesome, doesnt immediately scream happiness. instead its more about enabling a toxicity and toxic relationship that carries on and on. When was the last time you enjoyed something city related without ripping it to pieces. Your post mentions the reflection. So what was it?

 

Eh, yeah I get what you mean and a few definitely go OTT but I tend to tune them out. The vast majority are pretty reasonable I think. Near the start of the season it was pretty positive in general, now less so - but that's understandable to me and a reflection of performances on the pitch.

Personally I find the discussion more interesting after we lose. When we win a bunch of threads "Bakinson is ready for the PL!" / "Is Vyner worth 8 or 10 million??" are less interesting to me - and just the other side of the negative stuff but without any real analysis. After a loss people tend to look more critically at the performance which I really enjoy, and think the discussion is more varied, I like it when it gets a bit heated or there are conflicting views.

On your academy example I recommend reading the Semenyo thread. Loads are talking about his potential, we need to give him more time, positive attributes - I don't think you're representing things fairly at all. You can criticise an individual performance or piece of play as being poor without thinking the player is poor of course.

My reflection? On the forum, or City? For City, I want more than "they exist" (which is basically what you said above); I want them to get promoted playing good football. I also want the owners to back up their big talk and have it reflected both on the pitch and in the league table.

For the forum, I enjoy the critique and analysis of City (both how they play and how they're run) by people who know a hell of a lot more than me about football and the club itself. Do you consider a film or restaurant critic who gives a negative review as an unhappy person as a result? Is that toxic? Do they hate film or food in general because of it? Do you question when they last watched a film or ate a meal without ripping it to pieces? That's how I see things here. Being critical of something doesn't preclude liking it at the same time.

Some posts certainly go over the line, personal insults, bedsheets at the ground etc. but I wouldn't call questioning the value of the academy of criticising attributes of a player toxic personally. Often even a thread that starts off with some OTT viewpoint turns into really interesting discussion - this one for example, as well as these two others on the first page alone for example:

 

 

[Taz]

3 hours ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Another 7 pages of rumour speculation and conspiracy, how delightful.

I'd sigh and go well one year it will change, however it wont. This place is actually genuinely depressing. Same old tropes and discussiona, recycled and re positioned

Hate Lansdown

Hate Mike Ashton

Hate Dean Holden

and so on

It's always  our club this or our club that, when actually it's pretty much the collective moaners society, moaning about the same thing over and over and over again. Could pick a myriad of threads and the same *nudge nudge, wink wink* or juicy tidbit which solidifies about how rubbish or how disastrous things are some such thing to turn  the screw on the club that, everyone here is meant to love.

If you love something rather than beat it with a stick, and then tell try and tell it you love it. walk away reassess or whatever, you dont have to go through machinations, contortions and whatever else that's self destruction, not love. 

If you want to support something then do that, enjoy the ride, be thankful we have a team, vaguely solvent and are on our longest run in this league for some time.

We dont have a divine right to be here, we dont have a divine right to promotion, we dont have a divine right to be the best of the best of the best. We are what we are, hamstrung by multiple factors and making the best job of it that we can.

It may not be what some people want or expect, however they are your own expectations and not everyone elses. For every moan, conspiracy theory, speculative punt that happens there will be people not vocal but content or just able to enjoy the fact we have a team and we are at this level. 

It's a bloody hard level, we have injuries we have all kinds of stuff around the club including Covid stuff and i suspect the players are bloody knackered as well. 

Instead we get long chats about xG ( I dont know what it is and I dont frankly care ) or how comes we didnt have 70 billion percent possession and the rest.

Football's changed over time and with the likes of trying to manipulate possession stats from playing from the back because Goal kicks do not have to be a thing to being scared to lose because of the financial considerations watching some games could be as dull as dishwater. Everyone sets up in movements or motion or whatever else and sometimes it is like watching a rugby union match or even an American football game when play xyz has been completed or people are wittering on about how many completed passes or something else.  I've adapted around that and still scream shoot when players are in a position to rather than trying to score the statistically best not losing out most likely to score with knobs on or whatever thing is next to be paraded.

Stop worrying or obsessing over statistical facts and things become much more fun. We win some we lose some, we dont get caught up in all the minutiae of whatever today's conspiracy theory is or the next target of hate and you can choose to have a better relationship by taking a step back (it's not the first time I've written something like this) However coming here is  awful actually awful. same moans, same old tired arguments and same old cliches. 

Basically relearn or reevaluate, take a step back and try and see things differently. Reflective practice is wonderful in some much can take a look at where you are as fans, what you want and what you expect are you r needs going to be met and if not work out what you want to do. 

Im sure this will get insult after insult. however I'm happy enough pootling along at the moment, glad we have football, glad we have to play  youngsters and seeing where that adventure goes. It's not happy clappy, just grateful we have a team to support at all and I wish sometimes other fans would take that step back and reassess so they can enjoy rather than focus all the negative energy over and over again. 

 

Thanks for listening, have a wonderful new year and see what happens with us next year

 

 

 

 

Harsh to hate somebody that isn't associated with the club and has done no wrong.....

[maxjak]

On 31/12/2020 at 11:00, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Another 7 pages of rumour speculation and conspiracy, how delightful.

I'd sigh and go well one year it will change, however it wont. This place is actually genuinely depressing. Same old tropes and discussiona, recycled and re positioned

Hate Lansdown

Hate Mike Ashton

Hate Dean Holden

and so on

It's always  our club this or our club that, when actually it's pretty much the collective moaners society, moaning about the same thing over and over and over again. Could pick a myriad of threads and the same *nudge nudge, wink wink* or juicy tidbit which solidifies about how rubbish or how disastrous things are some such thing to turn  the screw on the club that, everyone here is meant to love.

If you love something rather than beat it with a stick, and then tell try and tell it you love it. walk away reassess or whatever, you dont have to go through machinations, contortions and whatever else that's self destruction, not love. 

If you want to support something then do that, enjoy the ride, be thankful we have a team, vaguely solvent and are on our longest run in this league for some time.

We dont have a divine right to be here, we dont have a divine right to promotion, we dont have a divine right to be the best of the best of the best. We are what we are, hamstrung by multiple factors and making the best job of it that we can.

It may not be what some people want or expect, however they are your own expectations and not everyone elses. For every moan, conspiracy theory, speculative punt that happens there will be people not vocal but content or just able to enjoy the fact we have a team and we are at this level. 

It's a bloody hard level, we have injuries we have all kinds of stuff around the club including Covid stuff and i suspect the players are bloody knackered as well. 

Instead we get long chats about xG ( I dont know what it is and I dont frankly care ) or how comes we didnt have 70 billion percent possession and the rest.

Football's changed over time and with the likes of trying to manipulate possession stats from playing from the back because Goal kicks do not have to be a thing to being scared to lose because of the financial considerations watching some games could be as dull as dishwater. Everyone sets up in movements or motion or whatever else and sometimes it is like watching a rugby union match or even an American football game when play xyz has been completed or people are wittering on about how many completed passes or something else.  I've adapted around that and still scream shoot when players are in a position to rather than trying to score the statistically best not losing out most likely to score with knobs on or whatever thing is next to be paraded.

Stop worrying or obsessing over statistical facts and things become much more fun. We win some we lose some, we dont get caught up in all the minutiae of whatever today's conspiracy theory is or the next target of hate and you can choose to have a better relationship by taking a step back (it's not the first time I've written something like this) However coming here is  awful actually awful. same moans, same old tired arguments and same old cliches. 

Basically relearn or reevaluate, take a step back and try and see things differently. Reflective practice is wonderful in some much can take a look at where you are as fans, what you want and what you expect are you r needs going to be met and if not work out what you want to do. 

Im sure this will get insult after insult. however I'm happy enough pootling along at the moment, glad we have football, glad we have to play  youngsters and seeing where that adventure goes. It's not happy clappy, just grateful we have a team to support at all and I wish sometimes other fans would take that step back and reassess so they can enjoy rather than focus all the negative energy over and over again. 

 

Thanks for listening, have a wonderful new year and see what happens with us next year

 

 

 

 

Happy New Year Dean......thanks for finding the time to post

[cityloyal473]

On 31/12/2020 at 16:32, Swede said:

Hughton went on public record enthusing about the merits of the  job after turning down other jobs offered. His previous experience at this level and impressive CV of playing at the very highest level and on the international stage including winning major trophies and the many contacts he has made  obviously comes at a price.

Then the directors were so impressed with Holden's presentation, the fact that he knew the players and his experience of playing third tier football. He also supported Manchester United as a boy so he also has that affinity with the fans which is so important that he got the job. It was nothing to do with money.

Makes you want to cry doesn't it. 

[Swede]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

Makes you want to cry doesn't it. 

Well yes; in fact its starting to make me question the hierarchy above the Head Coach. It strikes me that they don't want anybody rocking their boat so forget all of the big names as they come with big egos and a price.

Makes me want to cry; yes; because the club is collectively moving to the next level in every facet of the club except at Head Coach level where we've really missed the boat.

One expects to win lose or draw throughout the season but it is the manner of abject performances and tactical ineptness which is causing a lot of concern.

"We go again" can be interpreted as throw the player's names into a hat and see which 11 falls out.

It's not good enough

[Dottie]

1 hour ago, cityloyal473 said:

Makes you want to cry doesn't it. 

It does & the daft thing is that we did need to spend millions on players, we had the basis of a good team just needed someone experienced to get the best out of them. 

[Robin101]

On 31/12/2020 at 11:00, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Another 7 pages of rumour speculation and conspiracy, how delightful.

I'd sigh and go well one year it will change, however it wont. This place is actually genuinely depressing. Same old tropes and discussiona, recycled and re positioned

Hate Lansdown

Hate Mike Ashton

Hate Dean Holden

and so on

It's always  our club this or our club that, when actually it's pretty much the collective moaners society, moaning about the same thing over and over and over again. Could pick a myriad of threads and the same *nudge nudge, wink wink* or juicy tidbit which solidifies about how rubbish or how disastrous things are some such thing to turn  the screw on the club that, everyone here is meant to love.

If you love something rather than beat it with a stick, and then tell try and tell it you love it. walk away reassess or whatever, you dont have to go through machinations, contortions and whatever else that's self destruction, not love. 

If you want to support something then do that, enjoy the ride, be thankful we have a team, vaguely solvent and are on our longest run in this league for some time.

We dont have a divine right to be here, we dont have a divine right to promotion, we dont have a divine right to be the best of the best of the best. We are what we are, hamstrung by multiple factors and making the best job of it that we can.

It may not be what some people want or expect, however they are your own expectations and not everyone elses. For every moan, conspiracy theory, speculative punt that happens there will be people not vocal but content or just able to enjoy the fact we have a team and we are at this level. 

It's a bloody hard level, we have injuries we have all kinds of stuff around the club including Covid stuff and i suspect the players are bloody knackered as well. 

Instead we get long chats about xG ( I dont know what it is and I dont frankly care ) or how comes we didnt have 70 billion percent possession and the rest.

Football's changed over time and with the likes of trying to manipulate possession stats from playing from the back because Goal kicks do not have to be a thing to being scared to lose because of the financial considerations watching some games could be as dull as dishwater. Everyone sets up in movements or motion or whatever else and sometimes it is like watching a rugby union match or even an American football game when play xyz has been completed or people are wittering on about how many completed passes or something else.  I've adapted around that and still scream shoot when players are in a position to rather than trying to score the statistically best not losing out most likely to score with knobs on or whatever thing is next to be paraded.

Stop worrying or obsessing over statistical facts and things become much more fun. We win some we lose some, we dont get caught up in all the minutiae of whatever today's conspiracy theory is or the next target of hate and you can choose to have a better relationship by taking a step back (it's not the first time I've written something like this) However coming here is  awful actually awful. same moans, same old tired arguments and same old cliches. 

Basically relearn or reevaluate, take a step back and try and see things differently. Reflective practice is wonderful in some much can take a look at where you are as fans, what you want and what you expect are you r needs going to be met and if not work out what you want to do. 

Im sure this will get insult after insult. however I'm happy enough pootling along at the moment, glad we have football, glad we have to play  youngsters and seeing where that adventure goes. It's not happy clappy, just grateful we have a team to support at all and I wish sometimes other fans would take that step back and reassess so they can enjoy rather than focus all the negative energy over and over again. 

 

Thanks for listening, have a wonderful new year and see what happens with us next year

 

 

 

 

Totally agree with you that XG etc is boring as hell and so is over analysing... 

But that’s not the issue here. The issue is we’re boring as hell to watch? And we’re not even effective. We’re just rubbish AND boring!

Weirdly you seem to want the same thing as everyone ‘moaning’ - the enjoyment of the game, enjoying the ride, and shouting ‘shoot!’ more often.

[Ivorguy]

As the decades roll on and the top flight remains but a dream, it is difficult to place the responsibility for this, given it is the club’s stated goal, anywhere else than at the owner’s door.  For the money spent on players we should have managed over the years to get a team capable of promotion out of this division, and certainly not one falling back to the club’s default position of top half of division 1.  So any critical analysis would pinpoint the selection of City managers, far short in quality from those who have taken clubs up from this division, and that with clubs who on paper are not in ‘our league’, eg Bournemouth.

Add in our recruiting failures which are far too many for comfort, our failure to capitalise when success briefly appears to be a possibility, and the reasons for the failure of the club to achieve its goal over such a lengthy period of time becomes clearer.  So clear that the cynics among us begin to wonder whether the stated club goal is just there to keep us fans on board.

 

 

 

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

6 hours ago, cityloyal473 said:

Makes you want to cry doesn't it. 

Dry yer eyes, mate.

Just think: What does Bristol City + Mark Ashton + top class manager + sky high expectations equal?

Think about it.

Bristol City + top class appointment + fan hysteria (before a ball is kicked) =  ?

Euphoria? Or crushing let down? Europe in 5 years or League One in twelve months??

[RobintheRed Red]

On 29/12/2020 at 23:33, Slack Bladder said:

I was disappointed in GT's questions tonight

He had been reading out peoples txts so knew we are unhappy with the style of play and the lack of entertainment and didn't push him on it.

I Thought Holden was niggled by G.T s tone of voice he rattled him its the sign of losing it when he had a decent start he wasent under pressure then  he Holden .handled it better.

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 29/12/2020 at 22:33, TomThumb84 said:

He can’t see the wood for the trees.

Honest and decent bloke out of his depth with no experience or background that suggested he was ever the right man for it.

Spot on chief - a well-run, ambitious, progressive football club looking to get to the premier league would never have appointed Dean Holden in a million years - he is undoubtedly a very, very decent human being - he is obviously a top bloke - but he was an integral part of the LJ regime that basically delivered nothing - the ones that shout ‘progress’ forget how we entered successive New Years with a real shot at the big time before we plummeted into obscurity - and Dean was a big part of that managerial team - the guy has zero on his CV to suggest he can achieve anything at Ashton Gate - and I’d love to know why we continually reject geezers who have all the right credentials - meanwhile, Bristol Bears are joint top of the rugby premiership - perhaps that’s where real priorities lie ...

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Spot on chief - a well-run, ambitious, progressive football club looking to get to the premier league would never have appointed Dean Holden in a million years - he is undoubtedly a very, very decent human being - he is obviously a top bloke - but he was an integral part of the LJ regime that basically delivered nothing - the ones that shout ‘progress’ forget how we entered successive New Years with a real shot at the big time before we plummeted into obscurity - and Dean was a big part of that managerial team - the guy has zero on his CV to suggest he can achieve anything at Ashton Gate - and I’d love to know why we continually reject geezers who have all the right credentials - meanwhile, Bristol Bears are joint top of the rugby premiership - perhaps that’s where real priorities lie ...

I totally get the argument....how does Jason Tindall stack up?

[Bassomylord]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I totally get the argument....how does Jason Tindall stack up?

Jason Tindall makes perfect sense because he was part of a backroom team that somehow kept Bournemouth up in the prem for what 5 years? They also didn't want Howe to leave but he needed a step back. 

[TomThumb84]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I totally get the argument....how does Jason Tindall stack up?

Bournemouth on the way down out the Premier League, lots of cash, very good squad, continuity and consistency in a group was their aim.

Exact opposite for us. Its not apples with apples Dave.

[Cidre Monita]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I totally get the argument....how does Jason Tindall stack up?

He has quite some squad , 5 years in the Prem and a defined playing approach and recruitment policy. Look at what we have . No comparison. 

[Davefevs]

15 hours ago, Bassomylord said:

Jason Tindall makes perfect sense because he was part of a backroom team that somehow kept Bournemouth up in the prem for what 5 years? They also didn't want Howe to leave but he needed a step back. 

 

2 hours ago, TomThumb84 said:

Bournemouth on the way down out the Premier League, lots of cash, very good squad, continuity and consistency in a group was their aim.

Exact opposite for us. Its not apples with apples Dave.

 

9 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

He has quite some squad , 5 years in the Prem and a defined playing approach and recruitment policy. Look at what we have . No comparison. 

Don’t disagree....just asking the question.

[Cidre Monita]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

 

Don’t disagree....just asking the question.

I like to think of it as similar to Southampton and Brentford. Where the impact of the coach change is mitigated by structures that are in place. Probably that is what Ashton sold to SL . But they do not realise the basics are missing at BCFC. 

[TomThumb84]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

 

Don’t disagree....just asking the question.

Also I cannot remember Bournemouth sacking Howe, telling the world they wanted a “fresh approach”, “push on and achieve top 6 minimum”, taking 6 weeks to unsuccessfully find any sort of suitable candidate to do this in the whole of the footballing world, and then appointing Tindall on the basis that he is quite a nice bloke.

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Also I cannot remember Bournemouth sacking Howe, telling the world they wanted a “fresh approach”, “push on and achieve top 6 minimum”, taking 6 weeks to unsuccessfully find any sort of suitable candidate to do this in the whole of the footballing world, and then appointing Tindall on the basis that he is quite a nice bloke.

Yes.

My basic principle is - don’t recruit from within when you’ve just sacked someone.  I did think Holden showed a lot of differences both in caretaker spell and early season, but he’s showed his inexperience lately.  He has been hamstrung (no pun) by injuries but we have been playing very similarly (in the last 6-8 games) to how we played last season.  That is the worry for me.

[BCFC Rich]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Yes.

My basic principle is - don’t recruit from within when you’ve just sacked someone.  I did think Holden showed a lot of differences both in caretaker spell and early season, but he’s showed his inexperience lately.  He has been hamstrung (no pun) by injuries but we have been playing very similarly (in the last 6-8 games) to how we played last season.  That is the worry for me.

Still don't agree with this. I think we are way more disciplined defensively (particularly when we could play a five). We are not only held back by the injuries, but also by not being able to rotate in a more demanding season than normal. This leads to playing more fatigued players and higher risk of more injuries. Holden is working without pretty much a whole team's worth of players. Of the players he was allowed to sign/loan he has only hunt and marriapa available. Sessegnon, Mawson and Williams are all injured and arguably the players (of his signings) most likely to make a difference (particularly the latter two). I hate knee jerk reactions, DH got the job and and should get a fair chance. 

We are 4 points off the playoffs despite everything. I'm not sure a proven name would be doing much better if they had the same issues. We are grinding out results it's not pretty but despite monumental issues he has kept us in touch. We can't just ignore the better football when he had options - surely that is a better indication of what a DH team will actually be like rather than right now with all the limitations he has. 

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

Still don't agree with this. I think we are way more disciplined defensively (particularly when we could play a five). We are not only held back by the injuries, but also by not being able to rotate in a more demanding season than normal. This leads to playing more fatigued players and higher risk of more injuries. Holden is working without pretty much a whole team's worth of players. Of the players he was allowed to sign/loan he has only hunt and marriapa available. Sessegnon, Mawson and Williams are all injured and arguably the players (of his signings) most likely to make a difference (particularly the latter two). I hate knee jerk reactions, DH got the job and and should get a fair chance. 

We are 4 points off the playoffs despite everything. I'm not sure a proven name would be doing much better if they had the same issues. We are grinding out results it's not pretty but despite monumental issues he has kept us in touch. We can't just ignore the better football when he had options - surely that is a better indication of what a DH team will actually be like rather than right now with all the limitations he has. 

Why aren’t we playing a back 3/5 then?  Since Mariappa signed and got fit we’ve had:

Hunt / Vyner / Kalas / Mariappa / Moore / Rowe

Its a squeeze with the numbers admittedly.

if insisting on a back 4 then use the number of players available.

Thats kinda the point....we aren’t as solid because Holden has moved away from a system that was more solid....when he’s actually got the personnel to play it.

When I look at the team that started against Wycombe having had a full 8 days to prepare it had 7 starters from the team that went to Stoke and won....with Kalas, Nagy, O’Dowda and Semenyo.

Had that team played twice in the previous 7 days I’d have taken that into account, but following Preston, they had 8 days to rest, recuperate, train, tactically evolve, etc.  We played ok first half, we dire second half.  Where do the swings in performance come from?  You can blame fatigue, tiredness...if so, where does the second half against Preston come from after a dire first half.  Surely fatigue would mean an even worse second half.

I think I do anything but knee-jerk react.  I like Holden, but he’s making mistakes imho.  I’m not advocating sacking him, I’m just pointing out (over several threads) that I think our performances are worse than what I’d expect even with all the mitigating factors.  My “Brentford” thread explains many of those tunings.

Its nothing to do with “proven names”....there are no guarantees in football.

 

[BCFC Rich]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Why aren’t we playing a back 3/5 then?  Since Mariappa signed and got fit we’ve had:

Hunt / Vyner / Kalas / Mariappa / Moore / Rowe

Its a squeeze with the numbers admittedly.

if insisting on a back 4 then use the number of players available.

Thats kinda the point....we aren’t as solid because Holden has moved away from a system that was more solid....when he’s actually got the personnel to play it.

When I look at the team that started against Wycombe having had a full 8 days to prepare it had 7 starters from the team that went to Stoke and won....with Kalas, Nagy, O’Dowda and Semenyo.

Had that team played twice in the previous 7 days I’d have taken that into account, but following Preston, they had 8 days to rest, recuperate, train, tactically evolve, etc.  We played ok first half, we dire second half.  Where do the swings in performance come from?  You can blame fatigue, tiredness...if so, where does the second half against Preston come from after a dire first half.  Surely fatigue would mean an even worse second half.

I think I do anything but knee-jerk react.  I like Holden, but he’s making mistakes imho.  I’m not advocating sacking him, I’m just pointing out (over several threads) that I think our performances are worse than what I’d expect even with all the mitigating factors.  My “Brentford” thread explains many of those tunings.

Its nothing to do with “proven names”....there are no guarantees in football.

 

The knee jerk bit wasn’t really aimed at you (maybe should have made a separate post for that bit was just summing up my feeling to the overall reactions to Holden. - really responding to the bit about recent form.  I definitely don’t think of you as knee jerk - arguably the forums most balanced poster. 

I agree we have just about the numbers to play a five, but I think he wants Semenyo in as he gives us something a bit different in terms of attacking threat. I think a part of not playing a five is not having a player comfortable playing  left side - Mawson and Baker both injured, but I think the fact we don’t really have any creative midfielders available has meant him changing things higher up the field and thus going to a 4 to accommodate that. We have Paterson, Williams (to an extent), Wieman, Walsh, O’dowda all unavailable. If we get one or two of them back and or bring back Palmer (and are prepared to play him - still think question marks around him) then I think we will go back to 5. I think recent style of play and formation is about trying to maximise what’s available.