Others on the short list July / August this year for head coach at BCFC.

[City oz]

Not since 2014/15 have we had any real success. This came from Steve Cotterill that led us to the league 1 as champions and also a football league trophy as well.

Back earlier this year we had chris Houghton, Paul cook, Ryan Lowe, Steven Gerard, Michael Flynn, Aitor Karanka and what did the owners of the club do they appointed DH. Well all of us may  say DH is a good bloke but no matter how good he is he is not a quality manager for the championship. 

It looks like another season where all our hopes have gone and if lucky we will finish mid table. This position might be OK by some but i do not think it is good enough for most.

OK great stadium but is it a rugby stadium or a football stadium ? Ashton Gate was once a fortress and full of atmosphere but those days are gone.

I blame the owners of the club and not so much DH. However the longer DH stays at the club or he grows some nuts to stand up then you may as well kiss this season good bye.

[MarcusX]

4 minutes ago, City oz said:

Not since 2014/15 have we had any real success. This came from Steve Cotterill that led us to the league 1 as champions and also a football league trophy as well.

Back earlier this year we had chris Houghton, Paul cook, Ryan Lowe, Steven Gerard, Michael Flynn, Aitor Karanka and what did the owners of the club do they appointed DH. Well all of us may  say DH is a good bloke but no matter how good he is he is not a quality manager for the championship. 

It looks like another season where all our hopes have gone and if lucky we will finish mid table. This position might be OK by some but i do not think it is good enough for most.

OK great stadium but is it a rugby stadium or a football stadium ? Ashton Gate was once a fortress and full of atmosphere but those days are gone.

I blame the owners of the club and not so much DH. However the longer DH stays at the club or he grows some nuts to stand up then you may as well kiss this season good bye.

Were half those people even in the running or just rumours?

Getting the league cup semi final and beating the holders, then holding our own against one of the best teams in the world was fairly successful by Bristol City standards

[City oz]

1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

Were half those people even in the running or just rumours?

Getting the league cup semi final and beating the holders, then holding our own against one of the best teams in the world was fairly successful by Bristol City standards

Most bookie web sites had all of the above at 20/1 or shorter odds for Houghton down at almost even money early August.

OK league semi final and holding our own for two games was great. 

Nothing will beat watching City play in the Prem like the old division 1 days. Great clubs played at Ashton gate in those years and the atmosphere was the best I have ever experienced. We also played well away.

alas Ashton Gate is now a rugby ground and  I agree has great standards and is a fantastic stadium. It’s not Ashton Gate and never will be.

 

[Kid in the Riot]

Cook was interviewed but apparently wasn't keen on joining after that interview, which says a lot. 

I agree, our current predicament shouldn't be blamed on DH. Not his fault, it's the owners.

[KevP]

20 minutes ago, City oz said:

Most bookie web sites had all of the above at 20/1 or shorter odds for Houghton down at almost even money early August.

OK league semi final and holding our own for two games was great. 

Nothing will beat watching City play in the Prem like the old division 1 days. Great clubs played at Ashton gate in those years and the atmosphere was the best I have ever experienced. We also played well away.

alas Ashton Gate is now a rugby ground and  I agree has great standards and is a fantastic stadium. It’s not Ashton Gate and never will be.

 

Absolutely spot on....along with the fact that the "beautiful game" has gone soft....and is spoiled by VAR, money and Sky. Oh for the days of standing in the East End of an evening, floodlights beaming, cigar smoke rising, loud crowd, and the lovely East End toilets........

[Fordy62]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Cook was interviewed but apparently wasn't keen on joining after that interview, which says a lot. 

I agree, our current predicament shouldn't be blamed on DH. Not his fault, it's the owners.

That sounds like the sort of spin the club would release as rumour to try and justify not appointing him. 

Like an 18 year old who’s just been dumped by the love of his life, I keep hoping this is a ruse to allow Cook to see out a period of non employment. But the reality is she’s going to find someone else very soon and the realisation will hit that it’s definitely over. 

[Numero Uno]

37 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Were half those people even in the running or just rumours?

Getting the league cup semi final and beating the holders, then holding our own against one of the best teams in the world was fairly successful by Bristol City standards

Followed by three of the worst years of football I can recall since we slipped from Division 1 to Division 4.

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

That sounds like the sort of spin the club would release as rumour to try and justify not appointing him. 

Like an 18 year old who’s just been dumped by the love of his life, I keep hoping this is a ruse to allow Cook to see out a period of non employment. But the reality is she’s going to find someone else very soon and the realisation will hit that it’s definitely over. 

As soon as our last two managers questioned the investment in the team they got moved on quickly. That’s all you need to know. If Holden goes I genuinely think Simpson and Downing would get the job until the end of the season and if they did “alright”, permanently.

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

That sounds like the sort of spin the club would release as rumour to try and justify not appointing him. 

Like an 18 year old who’s just been dumped by the love of his life, I keep hoping this is a ruse to allow Cook to see out a period of non employment. But the reality is she’s going to find someone else very soon and the realisation will hit that it’s definitely over. 

Nope, that info comes from Cook's agent. Apparently neither party was keen following the interview, so it's fair to assume both sides thought it wasn't a good fit. 

Cook is a "shoot from the hip" kind of guy, so it's not a massive surprise. 

[Fordy62]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Nope, that info comes from Cook's agent. Apparently neither party was keen following the interview, so it's fair to assume both sides thought it wasn't a good fit. 

Cook is a "shoot from the hip" kind of guy, so it's not a massive surprise. 

In fairness I can’t imagine a spurned Cook would be peddling “I really wanted that job.”

[Galway Red]

We're going nowhere as long as we keep picking English pre-historic managers, there's a reason that  most of the teams in the bottom half are English managed

[Kid in the Riot]

9 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

In fairness I can’t imagine a spurned Cook would be peddling “I really wanted that job.”

Then why mention the club weren't keen either? 

Also, context is important. The info was provided privately and before Holden was appointed. So Cook wasn't "peddling" anything, and had no need to. Indeed he has never spoken to the media on the record about the interview (and of course won't due to NDA).

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, City oz said:

Most bookie web sites had all of the above at 20/1 or shorter odds for Houghton down at almost even money early August.

OK league semi final and holding our own for two games was great. 

Nothing will beat watching City play in the Prem like the old division 1 days. Great clubs played at Ashton gate in those years and the atmosphere was the best I have ever experienced. We also played well away.

alas Ashton Gate is now a rugby ground and  I agree has great standards and is a fantastic stadium. It’s not Ashton Gate and never will be.

 

It's Hughton, and bookies odds represent where the money is going as much as any inside info

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

It's Hughton, and bookies odds represent where the money is going as much as any inside info

Yep, it’s looking at where the money is going, reducing those odds whilst making other odds more attractive to lay off the risk.

[Phileas Fogg]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Cook was interviewed but apparently wasn't keen on joining after that interview, which says a lot. 

I agree, our current predicament shouldn't be blamed on DH. Not his fault, it's the owners.

That's not good news. Suggests to me that that archetype of manager (ie experienced, no bullshit, challenging) is basically a write off for the foreseeable. 

Obviously we wouldn't necessarily want a loose cannon, but lots of managers who've been in the game for a few years might be challenging or outspoken to the board. As we saw with SO'D and SC, that type can be exactly what you need.

In my opinion, what we need right now is someone with a bit of steel and experience. I don't think we're at the stage for someone who's still learning the role. We need someone who's in their managerial prime and has experience. 

Sounds like the board has siphoned off only one 'type' of manager that they want. They'll call it 'progressive' or 'forward thinking'.. but I suspect it really just means 'someone who won't challenge us too much'. 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That's not good news. Suggests to me that that archetype of manager (ie experienced, no bullshit, challenging) is basically a write off for the foreseeable. 

Obviously we wouldn't necessarily want a loose cannon, but lots of managers who've been in the game for a few years might be challenging or outspoken to the board. As we saw with SO'D and SC, that type can be exactly what you need.

In my opinion, what we need right now is someone with a bit of steel and experience. I don't think we're at the stage for someone who's still learning the role. We need someone who's in their managerial prime and has experience. 

Sounds like the board has siphoned off only one 'type' of manager that they want. They'll call it 'progressive' or 'forward thinking'.. but I suspect it really just means 'someone who won't challenge us too much'. 

Indeed.

Although Hughton was my “boring” no1 choice, and I got behind Holden really early, the bloke I really was excited by was Cook.

My gut feeling was that he’d completely buy in to the club ethos, developing players, buying young players, etc.....so it is worrying that both Cook and Club didn’t suit each other.

I suspect the big stumbling block is control of recruitment.

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Indeed.

Although Hughton was my “boring” no1 choice, and I got behind Holden really early, the bloke I really was excited by was Cook.

My gut feeling was that he’d completely buy in to the club ethos, developing players, buying young players, etc.....so it is worrying that both Cook and Club didn’t suit each other.

I suspect the big stumbling block is control of recruitment.

Me too. If you know who to read on here, as you do, it's pretty clear from their posts that there's an issue with recruitment and buying from preferred agents/management companies. 

My guess would be that Hughton assumed, perhaps understandably, his record might speak for itself if the rumours are true about lack of interview substance. I imagine people at the club wanted him to 'know the club', perhaps to massage the egos of the board to a degree. 

He probably wanted full autonomy of recruitment too, again understandable.

I think based on this thread it's likely that it was a similar situation with Cook with recruitment. I can imagine him buying into the rest of the club's ethos though. 

[reddoc]

4 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Were half those people even in the running or just rumours?

Getting the league cup semi final and beating the holders, then holding our own against one of the best teams in the world was fairly successful by Bristol City standards

I think 'fairly successful by Bristol City standards' is a masterful summation of this clubs ambition.

[exAtyeoMax]

20 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Me too. If you know who to read on here, as you do, it's pretty clear from their posts that there's an issue with recruitment and buying from preferred agents/management companies. 

My guess would be that Hughton assumed, perhaps understandably, his record might speak for itself if the rumours are true about lack of interview substance. I imagine people at the club wanted him to 'know the club', perhaps to massage the egos of the board to a degree. 

He probably wanted full autonomy of recruitment too, again understandable.

I think based on this thread it's likely that it was a similar situation with Cook with recruitment. I can imagine him buying into the rest of the club's ethos though. 

Where did that come from? Seemed a bit odd at the time to totally dis a respected manager in that manner. Was it “leaked” ? There appeared to be a lot of Machiavellian behaviour around that time...

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

Where did that come from? Seemed a bit odd at the time to totally dis a respected manager in that manner. Was it “leaked” ? There appeared to be a lot of Machiavellian behaviour around that time...

Difficult to say if true but if I remember correctly it was Gregor who discussed it.

Could've been a bit of spin from the club. There might be a few on here who know for sure. 

[KegCity]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Indeed.

Although Hughton was my “boring” no1 choice, and I got behind Holden really early, the bloke I really was excited by was Cook.

My gut feeling was that he’d completely buy in to the club ethos, developing players, buying young players, etc.....so it is worrying that both Cook and Club didn’t suit each other.

I suspect the big stumbling block is control of recruitment.

Completely agree. We are crying out for someone to come in and do what SOD did, deliver a few home truths and give the club the kick up the backside it needs to push on. The decisions made over the summer certainly appear to suggest the club don't want that. 

[exAtyeoMax]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Difficult to say if true but if I remember correctly it was Gregor who discussed it.

Could've been a bit of spin from the club. There might be a few on here who know for sure. 

Yes, I certainly am very cynical with anything regarding what MA wants fans to hear. It might be true, there may be a grain of truth in it, but...

[Bassomylord]

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Nope, that info comes from Cook's agent. Apparently neither party was keen following the interview, so it's fair to assume both sides thought it wasn't a good fit. 

Cook is a "shoot from the hip" kind of guy, so it's not a massive surprise. 

Which in reality means he was interviewed and didn't get the job.

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

Which in reality means he was interviewed and didn't get the job.

Well yes, we know he was interviewed and Holden got the job. Doesn't then mean it's not true that Cook ended up not fancying it. I'm sure you've been to job interviews in the past where you've realised when there that it wouldn't be a good fit. I know I have. 

[blockbrowt1]

5 hours ago, City oz said:

Most bookie web sites had all of the above at 20/1 or shorter odds for Houghton down at almost even money early August.

OK league semi final and holding our own for two games was great. 

Nothing will beat watching City play in the Prem like the old division 1 days. Great clubs played at Ashton gate in those years and the atmosphere was the best I have ever experienced. We also played well away.

alas Ashton Gate is now a rugby ground and  I agree has great standards and is a fantastic stadium. It’s not Ashton Gate and never will be.

 

Agree totally. Is it me or have we always had just BRISTOL on the seats in the stands. I may be wrong.

[Robbored]

59 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Well yes, we know he was interviewed and Holden got the job. Doesn't then mean it's not true that Cook ended up not fancying it. I'm sure you've been to job interviews in the past where you've realised when there that it wouldn't be a good fit. I know I have. 

Not many established managers would fancy the City job if they had to adhere to SLs policy of sustainability which means losing your better players every window.

Holden got the job because he was fully aware of what it would be like sticking to that policy.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Robbored said:

Not many established managers would fancy the City job if they had to adhere to SLs policy of sustainability which means losing your better players every window.

Holden got the job because he was fully aware of what it would be like sticking to that policy.

Yes I think we've all acknowledged that but I think it may be more about involvement on transfers from the 'recruitment team' when most managers want total autonomy. 

Managers like Cook aren't strangers to working at clubs that sell their assets, Cook has done it for most of his career. 

[wayne allisons tongues]

If it’s right what people are saying about the club signing players from a certain agency, then managers who work with other people in football will not be interested in the job.

[M.D]

At Brighton they have a guy called Dan Ashworth who does the same roll that Aston does here. Its interesting to here how he describes his role and it all sounds very familiar to what we have going on. He describes it at follows:

 

Quote

“It’s a model that is very common in Europe,” Ashworth says. “I don’t like hierarchical structures, so I always draw it that the TD [technical director] sits in the middle of the wheel and on the outside of the wheel is the head of each department.

“History will tell you the one you are most likely to lose is the head coach or manager. The average lifespan is something like 14 months.

”So if, every 14 months, you are fundamentally changing what the club believes in and how you are developing your young players, how you are working with the players that are out on loan, you’ve got no consistency and no chance of joining everything up from a long-term point of view.

“Historically, certainly in this country, it was more that the manager would choose the head coach, youth-team coach, reserves coach, head of recruitment, physio.

“Consequently, you’ve got wholesale changes when that doesn’t work — or does work, and they go on to bigger and better things — rather than just tweaking and changing one or two heads of department, which is what you would do in any other business.”

 

He fell out with Hughton and Hughton had to go and they have now got in Potter who fans have lost trust in and are now questioning the structure of the inner workings of their club.

 

It all sounds very familiar with Brighton going backwards at an alarming rate too

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Yes I think we've all acknowledged that but I think it may be more about involvement on transfers from the 'recruitment team' when most managers want total autonomy. 

Managers like Cook aren't strangers to working at clubs that sell their assets, Cook has done it for most of his career. 

Any idea how many other Championship clubs have a similar system in place?  I’d be very surprised if City  are the only club to use it.