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Where do we go from here?


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 "we want to get on the front foot, we want to play attacking exciting football, creating chances in the oppositions half of the pitch and when we haven't got the ball we want to win it back as quickly as we can and get our supporters out their seats" so said Dean Holden 10 August 2020.

Deano, as the lads like to call him, it ain't happening mate. Yes, you've been hit by injuries but you seem to be making basic errors in tactics and formation and the mindset / attitude of those wearing the shirt seems to be awry.

This is a recording of this morning's Forever Bristol City podcast in which DaveFevs, Ian, Mark & myself try to get to the bottom of what's going wrong: 

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/where-do-we-go-from-here-1609350758/ 

We point a finger firmly in Mark Ashton's direction and as DaveFevs has asked on Twitter it is time for him to publicly support his appointment and tell us all what the strategy is going to be for the remainder of the season.

As I said in an earlier thread - the coaches have a lot to answer for. What are Downing & Simpson doing by way of support. What is Cisse doing for his wage and you could ask the same of Pat Mountain. You could lose 3 of that bunch and for the same money have McCarthy as a Technical Advisor to support Holden whose ego is not so great that he would take something like that as an affront to his ability. Won't happen as Ashton wouldn't allow it.

We have regressed since Dec 30th 2017 and too many on here are expressing the loss of any enjoyment in watching us play which will filer through in low attendances when we are allowed back in. If Holden had blooded some youngsters last night and we had lost 4-2 but put in a performance he'd still be getting ripped apart on here but I think the level of toxicity on here wouldn't be quite as bad as it is getting.

 

 

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On the basis that we have 33 points and probably another 12/13 will do then I really hope Holden takes the shackles off a bit and instructs a more attacking  positive brand of football, play forwards and not sideways.

This is his best chance to crack it as a manager and if he bombs out then he is unlikely to ever be more than a coach in the future, in that respect surely you go for it on the basis he is on a one year deal.

We will pick up wins and no doubt more losses but if he can steer us to mid table which I would have taken at start of season playing a better brand of football he may prolong his managerial career.

I know he has had injuries to key personnel but he still has 11 professionals to field and they can all work on a new style collectively.

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By end of Jan, we will be looking down and on verge of a relegation scrap with 10 other teams. Sounds ridiculous but our form is bottom of the table (there or there abouts) our performances are a cause of that form, and our coaching team are doing a total of zero to change this for the better. Definition of madness, trying something a certain way and failing and expecting success when continuing to Do things in the same way.

i don’t take injuries as an excuse. We have playing staff that should have enough quality individually to get results and perform well But our coaching team is incapable of getting a team or individual performances out of them through appropriate tactics, lineups etc etc it’s just not working and it will take us down if drastic measures aren’t taken soon.

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Well, I’ll stick my head on the block and say if we stick with Holden and SL sticks to his failing policy when it comes to selecting managers, we will be right down there next season.

According to GMcG, We’ve got 62 points from 46 league games in 2020. While that would be safe for mid-table, it’s not a true reflection of the decline we’re witnessing. We can barely muster a shot on goal in most games, we generally can’t defend set pieces, Holden can’t get the basics right, his answer to losing is to throw four strikers on the pitch and forget about the supply, and most importantly there’s no fight in the players which suggests he struggles to motivate them. 

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1 hour ago, tin said:

Well, I’ll stick my head on the block and say if we stick with Holden and SL sticks to his failing policy when it comes to selecting managers, we will be right down there next season.

According to GMcG, We’ve got 62 points from 46 league games in 2020. While that would be safe for mid-table, it’s not a true reflection of the decline we’re witnessing. We can barely muster a shot on goal in most games, we generally can’t defend set pieces, Holden can’t get the basics right, his answer to losing is to throw four strikers on the pitch and forget about the supply, and most importantly there’s no fight in the players which suggests he struggles to motivate them. 

You could argue that under Holden 2020 has been an improvement in results (41 Pts from 27 games).

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

You could argue that under Holden 2020 has been an improvement in results (41 Pts from 27 games).

You could, but I’m looking at the decline unfolding with every performance (and that’s from an annual points tally that would have us in mid-table). All the signs point to a season of struggle next term if we continue down this path. 

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10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You could argue that under Holden 2020 has been an improvement in results (41 Pts from 27 games).

Yes you could, but we’ve been extremely fortunate with most of those results. We need to thank Dan Bentley for his performances, we would most likely be right down there if it wasn’t for him. 
 

You can’t continue to play like we have and carry on getting away with it. Our fortunes were bound to change at some stage and we’re seeing that now.

Sh*thousing 1-0’s is not sustainable, but you know that Dave.

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18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You could argue that under Holden 2020 has been an improvement in results (41 Pts from 27 games).

True, but if you take out the caretaker bit (8 points from 5 games) then 33 from 22 doesn’t look quite so good.

Totally get the injuries & think he will get the season whatever happens, but the summer recruitment looks pretty bad this far in, as we replaced Pereira & Benkovic on loan with 2 Fulham players who are injured, Korey with someone who hasn’t even kicked a ball, Brunt for who? Henriksen? So arguably only Martin (on very decent wages) has made any sort of impact.

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4 hours ago, headhunter said:

 "we want to get on the front foot, we want to play attacking exciting football, creating chances in the oppositions half of the pitch and when we haven't got the ball we want to win it back as quickly as we can and get our supporters out their seats" so said Dean Holden 10 August 2020.

Deano, as the lads like to call him, it ain't happening mate. Yes, you've been hit by injuries but you seem to be making basic errors in tactics and formation and the mindset / attitude of those wearing the shirt seems to be awry.

This is a recording of this morning's Forever Bristol City podcast in which DaveFevs, Ian, Mark & myself try to get to the bottom of what's going wrong: 

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/where-do-we-go-from-here-1609350758/ 

We point a finger firmly in Mark Ashton's direction and as DaveFevs has asked on Twitter it is time for him to publicly support his appointment and tell us all what the strategy is going to be for the remainder of the season.

As I said in an earlier thread - the coaches have a lot to answer for. What are Downing & Simpson doing by way of support. What is Cisse doing for his wage and you could ask the same of Pat Mountain. You could lose 3 of that bunch and for the same money have McCarthy as a Technical Advisor to support Holden whose ego is not so great that he would take something like that as an affront to his ability. Won't happen as Ashton wouldn't allow it.

We have regressed since Dec 30th 2017 and too many on here are expressing the loss of any enjoyment in watching us play which will filer through in low attendances when we are allowed back in. If Holden had blooded some youngsters last night and we had lost 4-2 but put in a performance he'd still be getting ripped apart on here but I think the level of toxicity on here wouldn't be quite as bad as it is getting.

 

 

You mention "ego" I think this is a problem in football. Ashton appears to have an ego, just like LJ. Mick McCarthy is another with an ego. I don't think Ashton will want another who will be hard to deal with due to their ego. He is top dog in his own eyes. 

If Ian and Mark who you mention are the guys who phone in on RB, they always seem to say what I am thinking after each game, keep it going lads. 

 

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4 hours ago, headhunter said:

 "we want to get on the front foot, we want to play attacking exciting football, creating chances in the oppositions half of the pitch and when we haven't got the ball we want to win it back as quickly as we can and get our supporters out their seats" so said Dean Holden 10 August 2020.

Deano, as the lads like to call him, it ain't happening mate. Yes, you've been hit by injuries but you seem to be making basic errors in tactics and formation and the mindset / attitude of those wearing the shirt seems to be awry.

This is a recording of this morning's Forever Bristol City podcast in which DaveFevs, Ian, Mark & myself try to get to the bottom of what's going wrong: 

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/where-do-we-go-from-here-1609350758/ 

We point a finger firmly in Mark Ashton's direction and as DaveFevs has asked on Twitter it is time for him to publicly support his appointment and tell us all what the strategy is going to be for the remainder of the season.

As I said in an earlier thread - the coaches have a lot to answer for. What are Downing & Simpson doing by way of support. What is Cisse doing for his wage and you could ask the same of Pat Mountain. You could lose 3 of that bunch and for the same money have McCarthy as a Technical Advisor to support Holden whose ego is not so great that he would take something like that as an affront to his ability. Won't happen as Ashton wouldn't allow it.

We have regressed since Dec 30th 2017 and too many on here are expressing the loss of any enjoyment in watching us play which will filer through in low attendances when we are allowed back in. If Holden had blooded some youngsters last night and we had lost 4-2 but put in a performance he'd still be getting ripped apart on here but I think the level of toxicity on here wouldn't be quite as bad as it is getting.

 

 

Listening now. Thanks again for your efforts chaps. 
@Davefevs just a quick correction on your Ashton timeline. 
He didn’t arrive under SOD. He was here in 2012 under McInnes. 
It was SOD who brought in Burt, whom he’d previously worked with at Forest. It was these 2 who poo-poo’d Ashton’s ‘ways’, which Cotterill also continued to poo-poo for the 2014 recruitment you referenced. 
 

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12 minutes ago, Harry said:

Listening now. Thanks again for your efforts chaps. 
@Davefevs just a quick correction on your Ashton timeline. 
He didn’t arrive under SOD. He was here in 2012 under McInnes. 
It was SOD who brought in Burt, whom he’d previously worked with at Forest. It was these 2 who poo-poo’d Ashton’s ‘ways’, which Cotterill also continued to poo-poo for the 2014 recruitment you referenced. 
 

I am sure the Cotterill and Burt partnership will deliver great success now they are back together at Shrewsbury. 

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4 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

On the basis that we have 33 points and probably another 12/13 will do then I really hope Holden takes the shackles off a bit and instructs a more attacking  positive brand of football, play forwards and not sideways.

This is his best chance to crack it as a manager and if he bombs out then he is unlikely to ever be more than a coach in the future, in that respect surely you go for it on the basis he is on a one year deal.

We will pick up wins and no doubt more losses but if he can steer us to mid table which I would have taken at start of season playing a better brand of football he may prolong his managerial career.

I know he has had injuries to key personnel but he still has 11 professionals to field and they can all work on a new style collectively.

He isn't on a one year deal - he is on a one year rolling deal. As of now he has a contact until the 30th December 2021, tomorrow (35 mins time as I write this) he has a contract until 31st December 2021.

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26 minutes ago, Harry said:

Listening now. Thanks again for your efforts chaps. 
@Davefevs just a quick correction on your Ashton timeline. 
He didn’t arrive under SOD. He was here in 2012 under McInnes. 
It was SOD who brought in Burt, whom he’d previously worked with at Forest. It was these 2 who poo-poo’d Ashton’s ‘ways’, which Cotterill also continued to poo-poo for the 2014 recruitment you referenced. 
 

Ta Harry.

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2 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

I am sure the Cotterill and Burt partnership will deliver great success now they are back together at Shrewsbury. 

They could certainly spot a player. So many of the permanent and loan signings we made in that period have gone on to have really good championship careers, with some achieving Premier League moves. Then when Ashton returned as CEO he and the club claimed it was his talent ID and recruitment system that had been fundamental to it! Funny how the return of Ashton coincided with a change in strategy and a whole host of crap signings. 

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8 minutes ago, SuperRed said:

They could certainly spot a player. So many of the permanent and loan signings we made in that period have gone on to have really good championship careers, with some achieving Premier League moves. Then when Ashton returned as CEO he and the club claimed it was his talent ID and recruitment system that had been fundamental to it! Funny how the return of Ashton coincided with a change in strategy and a whole host of crap signings. 

Yes funny that. All bunce for Ashton. Where there’s Muck there’s brass 

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6 hours ago, headhunter said:

 "we want to ... ... get our supporters out their seats" so said Dean Holden 10 August 2020.

 

Well if we actually had any supporters allowed in the stadiums it's safe to say he'd be achieving this.  By about the 70th minute of each match as bored supporters left early to get to the pubs nearby.

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8 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

I am sure the Cotterill and Burt partnership will deliver great success now they are back together at Shrewsbury. 

Another win on Tuesday, am watching Steve's tenure at the Shrews with interest as in my opinion ( and you may have yours) he was a breath of fresh air at AG in the last ten years.

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14 hours ago, headhunter said:

 "we want to get on the front foot, we want to play attacking exciting football, creating chances in the oppositions half of the pitch and when we haven't got the ball we want to win it back as quickly as we can and get our supporters out their seatsso said Dean Holden 10 August 2020.

 

If fans had been allowed to attand games, they would have definitely left their seats...... and not returned,

Mission accomplished.

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9 hours ago, Pezo said:

He isn't on a one year deal - he is on a one year rolling deal. As of now he has a contact until the 30th December 2021, tomorrow (35 mins time as I write this) he has a contract until 31st December 2021.

He started in August so a one year rolling deal would be august 2021 and up for review. Lets hope its a season rolling deal for most. However I hope the deal included a clause that the team would not slip below mid table ever. This equates to January 2021 ???

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10 hours ago, City1970 said:

You mention "ego" I think this is a problem in football. Ashton appears to have an ego, just like LJ. Mick McCarthy is another with an ego. I don't think Ashton will want another who will be hard to deal with due to their ego. He is top dog in his own eyes. 

If Ian and Mark who you mention are the guys who phone in on RB, they always seem to say what I am thinking after each game, keep it going lads. 

 

Yes they are and thank you.

If JL is as in tune with the fans as much as some think then he must have similar feelings to us about the pervading influence that is Mark Ashton. Time for a word in dad's ear I feel.

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10 hours ago, Pezo said:

He isn't on a one year deal - he is on a one year rolling deal. As of now he has a contact until the 30th December 2021, tomorrow (35 mins time as I write this) he has a contract until 31st December 2021.

 

42 minutes ago, City oz said:

He started in August so a one year rolling deal would be august 2021 and up for review. Lets hope its a season rolling deal for most. However I hope the deal included a clause that the team would not slip below mid table ever. This equates to January 2021 ???

Pezo is correct on this one City oz. 

A 1-year rolling contract basically means that his contract ALWAYS has 1 year left on it. 
So, right now, his contract runs until 31/12/21. Tomorrow his contract runs until 01/01/22, on Saturday his contract runs until 02/01/22, and so on ..... 

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2 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Pezo is correct on this one City oz. 

A 1-year rolling contract basically means that his contract ALWAYS has 1 year left on it. 
So, right now, his contract runs until 31/12/21. Tomorrow his contract runs until 01/01/22, on Saturday his contract runs until 02/01/22, and so on ..... 

ok but still sounds incorrect to me. If i sign a contract which is rolling for 12 months then it runs potentially another 12 months from the first date the contract was signed. If DH signed say in may 2020 then 12 months gives him to May 2021 then May 2022 if that makes sense,

Anyway he shouldn’t of been signed in the first place.

All the best for the new year.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, City oz said:

ok but still sounds incorrect to me. If i sign a contract which is rolling for 12 months then it runs potentially another 12 months from the first date the contract was signed. If DH signed say in may 2020 then 12 months gives him to May 2021 then May 2022 if that makes sense,

Anyway he shouldn’t of been signed in the first place.

All the best for the new year.

 

 

As always mate, the world of football is different to normal contracts in the normal world. 
Essentially, a 1 year rolling contract simply means that if the club want rid then they have to pay up 1 years wages. Protects the club over handing out lengthy contracts and having to pay huge settlements. 
 

Happy new year to you too. 👍

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26 minutes ago, Harry said:

As always mate, the world of football is different to normal contracts in the normal world. 
Essentially, a 1 year rolling contract simply means that if the club want rid then they have to pay up 1 years wages. Protects the club over handing out lengthy contracts and having to pay huge settlements. 
 

Happy new year to you too. 👍

You are 100% right.

If Holden was binned on, say, 1st April 2021 he would be paid to 31st March 2022. He has the comfort blanket of, in effect, 12 months notice which is pretty much par for the course on what is a director level appointment. I've always viewed Holden appointment as being akin to the Shift Manager being given the role of Production Director reporting into the MD who in this instance is Ashton!!!

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29 minutes ago, Harry said:

As always mate, the world of football is different to normal contracts in the normal world. 
Essentially, a 1 year rolling contract simply means that if the club want rid then they have to pay up 1 years wages. Protects the club over handing out lengthy contracts and having to pay huge settlements. 
 

Happy new year to you too. 👍

Now i got it. I went to stockwood green and Brislington schools so didn’t learn any thing until I went to south Bristol Tech College 

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1 hour ago, City oz said:

He started in August so a one year rolling deal would be august 2021 and up for review. Lets hope its a season rolling deal for most. However I hope the deal included a clause that the team would not slip below mid table ever. This equates to January 2021 ???

 

49 minutes ago, City oz said:

ok but still sounds incorrect to me. If i sign a contract which is rolling for 12 months then it runs potentially another 12 months from the first date the contract was signed. If DH signed say in may 2020 then 12 months gives him to May 2021 then May 2022 if that makes sense,

Anyway he shouldn’t of been signed in the first place.

All the best for the new year.

In football that would be a 1 year contract not a rolling contract.

I need to get myself one of these contracts that pay you for a year after you have left the job :-).

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17 minutes ago, Pezo said:

 

In football that would be a 1 year contract not a rolling contract.

I need to get myself one of these contracts that pay you for a year after you have left the job :-).

It is ridiculous isn`t it? Mind you, I believe payment stops if you get another job (not sure what happens if your new job pays less though - do City make up the difference?)

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