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28 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Does anyone know why Korey was allowed to leave? Was there a contract offered? Did he want to move on? My memories of the chain of events are hazy.

Because we've got too many quality midfielders in our matchday squad, like Nagy for example, and umm, the other one that played well that one time...

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2 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Spot on mate! But its been done to death on here. 

I'm still with you though why the hell can't we? so bl^^dy frustrating especially for us older fans who have seen it all before so many times. I was saying to my wife earlier today if we were in the same position Norwich are now somehow we would ef it up.

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11 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Easy with hindsight in regards to korey. 
if williams & Walsh had been fit and firing then no one would be mentioning him . Saying that , even though brunt has been made a scapegoat , it’s difficult to see how getting him in and letting korey go makes any sense. 

Holden was quite clear in his “vision” of 3-5-2 with fast flowing, attacking football, leading us to score 92 league goals.

I think he has also gone on record recently to say that Liam Walsh was always going to be a key member of his “vision”. So we can assume Dean had in mind Walsh plus two.

What puzzles me is how a fit Korey Smith does not prove to be an asset as a defensive midfielder in a 3 sniffing out danger and breaking up attacks.

Dean clearly thought/thinks that Massengo, Nagy, Bakinson, Brunt, all offer more than Korey. Not so sure myself.

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14 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Holden was quite clear in his “vision” of 3-5-2 with fast flowing, attacking football, leading us to score 92 league goals.

I think he has also gone on record recently to say that Liam Walsh was always going to be a key member of his “vision”. So we can assume Dean had in mind Walsh plus two.

What puzzles me is how a fit Korey Smith does not prove to be an asset as a defensive midfielder in a 3 sniffing out danger and breaking up attacks.

Dean clearly thought/thinks that Massengo, Nagy, Bakinson, Brunt, all offer more than Korey. Not so sure myself.

His injury record over the last two seasons- but largely 2018/19, was pretty terrible though.

What sort of wages did Swansea offer him too?

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36 minutes ago, weepywall said:

Agree, can't believe we are still in top 10, we are actually quite handily placed for an assault on the top 6 in the 2nd half of the season.....aren't we ?? ?‍♂️

If a number of players- key ones at that- returned sharpish from injury then it would improve us for sure and improve our chances. How could it not?

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Does anybody else look at the 14 point gap to 22nd and think, somehow, we could be in for a very uncomfortable second half of the season...

I don’t think we’ll go down, but I have a  feeling that gap might reduce to 5 or 6 points at some point. 

QPR, Rotherham and Wycombe to go down in my opinion.

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19 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Holden was quite clear in his “vision” of 3-5-2 with fast flowing, attacking football, leading us to score 92 league goals.

I think he has also gone on record recently to say that Liam Walsh was always going to be a key member of his “vision”. So we can assume Dean had in mind Walsh plus two.

What puzzles me is how a fit Korey Smith does not prove to be an asset as a defensive midfielder in a 3 sniffing out danger and breaking up attacks.

Dean clearly thought/thinks that Massengo, Nagy, Bakinson, Brunt, all offer more than Korey. Not so sure myself.

 

I imagine he thought Brunt was a like-for-like swap, but hadn't realised that Brunt's best years were 5-10 years ago.

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2 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

Does anybody else look at the 14 point gap to 22nd and think, somehow, we could be in for a very uncomfortable second half of the season...

I don’t think we’ll go down, but I have a  feeling that gap might reduce to 5 or 6 points at some point. 

QPR, Rotherham and Wycombe to go down in my opinion.

Yep. Fact is we will get the odd win as that's the nature of the league but we are definitely looking down rather than up.

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5 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

Does anybody else look at the 14 point gap to 22nd and think, somehow, we could be in for a very uncomfortable second half of the season...

I don’t think we’ll go down, but I have a  feeling that gap might reduce to 5 or 6 points at some point. 

QPR, Rotherham and Wycombe to go down in my opinion.

That assumes that the likes of Mawson, Baker, Williams, Walsh won't return- Paterson and DaSilva too.

That assumes that our injury issues won't fall back and enable us to actually rest and rotate some- I believe these will start to clear up and this will help us. From POV of quality, rotation and competition.

I think Wycombe will battle gamely but are gone. Sheffield Wednesday will be interesting to see, I hope they continue to struggle, Derby are far from out of the woods yet- look how few goals these two sides are scoring- Birmingham have improved on paper but not on grass- Rotherham a difficult away game at times.

We're not going down!

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23 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Holden was quite clear in his “vision” of 3-5-2 with fast flowing, attacking football, leading us to score 92 league goals.

I think he has also gone on record recently to say that Liam Walsh was always going to be a key member of his “vision”. So we can assume Dean had in mind Walsh plus two.

What puzzles me is how a fit Korey Smith does not prove to be an asset as a defensive midfielder in a 3 sniffing out danger and breaking up attacks.

Dean clearly thought/thinks that Massengo, Nagy, Bakinson, Brunt, all offer more than Korey. Not so sure myself.

your final paragraph is wrong. It comes down to contract simple as that....with so many midfield options Nagy Williams Morrell Walsh Bakinson Massengo Brunt ODowda Paterson Weimann we needed to clear out some space.

Our injury list is unprecedented and no way could they have expected this.

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9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

His injury record over the last two seasons- but largely 2018/19, was pretty terrible though.

What sort of wages did Swansea offer him too?

Granted - however he looks the same player now for the Swans as he did for us in 14-15 from what I have seen. Wonder what Steve Cooper does to get that sharpness into him.

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53 minutes ago, Redwhitepurple said:

Korey smith YET another commanding performance. YET more bad transfer management. The guy stated he was happy to stay at city. Not good enough for mid table city, main man for 2nd place swansea. Nice one

Makes you wonder especially now was it down to the training regime why he  was injured so much.

And now even more so that needs looking into due to our current injury list is the training too intense.

Instead we are stuck with old man brunt on the payroll and other deadwood.

Ashton out

 

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1 minute ago, Bassomylord said:

your final paragraph is wrong. It comes down to contract simple as that....with so many midfield options Nagy Williams Morrell Walsh Bakinson Massengo Brunt ODowda Paterson Weimann we needed to clear out some space.

Our injury list is unprecedented and no way could they have expected this.

Hmmmm, ok. So players cant be sold when in contract? Also I am puzzled when people talk about Weimann as a midfielder. He only become one because Holden thinks he is one.

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7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That assumes that the likes of Mawson, Baker, Williams, Walsh won't return- Paterson and DaSilva too.

That assumes that our injury issues won't fall back and enable us to actually rest and rotate some- I believe these will start to clear up and this will help us. From POV of quality, rotation and competition.

I think Wycombe will battle gamely but are gone. Sheffield Wednesday will be interesting to see, I hope they continue to struggle, Derby are far from out of the woods yet- look how few goals these two sides are scoring- Birmingham have improved on paper but not on grass- Rotherham a difficult away game at times.

We're not going down!

Birmingham and Rotherham both beat us pretty comfortably and we have to play them both again.

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3 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Hmmmm, ok. So players cant be sold when in contract? Also I am puzzled when people talk about Weimann as a midfielder. He only become one because Holden thinks he is one.

Well thats the point....hence why Smith went so many options....well they can if there are any takers....which evidently there wasn't.

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3 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Birmingham and Rotherham both beat us pretty comfortably and we have to play them both again.

Birmingham are better away from home, Rotherham are better at home- the inverse is true of course.

I digress though, fears of relegation feel unlikely- you are also failing to factor in how returning players will improve us and improve competition, ability to rest and rotate.

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45 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Holden was quite clear in his “vision” of 3-5-2 with fast flowing, attacking football, leading us to score 92 league goals.

I think he has also gone on record recently to say that Liam Walsh was always going to be a key member of his “vision”. So we can assume Dean had in mind Walsh plus two.

I think Williams was his big signing, the tenacious midfielder who could play and get us moving forward.  Walsh would play his part too, but more likely Williams and 2 others than Walsh and 2 others imho.

What puzzles me is how a fit Korey Smith does not prove to be an asset as a defensive midfielder in a 3 sniffing out danger and breaking up attacks.

because I think he thought between Williams, Walsh, Nagy, Bakinson, Massengo and Morrell, notwithstanding his thoughts on the roles Weimann and Pato could / would play, that Smith, along with his injury record, was deemed surplus.  I totally got that.  Would I have done the same?  Not sure.  FWIW I would probably have kept Korey as my versatile player, who could cover RWB for odd games instead of Hunt or Vyner....or as it turned out Sessegnon.

Dean clearly thought/thinks that Massengo, Nagy, Bakinson, Brunt, all offer more than Korey. Not so sure myself.

I think we are looking in the wrong place if we think Brunt replaced Smith.  I’m really not sure at all why we signed Brunt....as a player-coach I could just about get it....not as a player.  Initially I assumed he was LB/LWB cover and that Rowe would move on.  Not so.  I believe Brunt’s signing cost us Joe Morrell....which apart from Joe’s own needs of wanting game time is a ridiculous decision, and financially too.

⬆️⬆️⬆️

30 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

His injury record over the last two seasons- but largely 2018/19, was pretty terrible though.

What sort of wages did Swansea offer him too?

We know he wasn’t  offered any deal here, but the rumour is that they offered more than what he was on here at the time.  Swansea still getting PPs and despite his long tenure here, he’s never been in a good place to maximise contract demands here, e.g. renewals when he’s been injured.  The deal he signed in 2016 would probably be the money he was still on.  You can imagine many players have left him behind wages-wise in those 4 years.

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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Birmingham are better away from home, Rotherham are better at home- the inverse is true of course.

I digress though, fears of relegation feel unlikely- you are also failing to factor in how returning players will improve us and improve competition, ability to rest and rotate.

Ok, so playing devils advocate lets look at that. Yes we have a large number of injuries, so who do we have coming back?

Baker - maybe just maybe will be great but also likely to get injured again

Mawson - unfortunately looks to have a weakness in that knee and no guarantee it will hold up (Fulham fans did tell us)

Williams - unlikely to kick a ball this season, played in a relegated side last year

Walsh - cannot get fit and do not know why, out of contract in the summer. Great in league one last year

Paterson - form was dwindling pre-injury, always had streaky runs but on song adds a lot. Was loaned out a year ago

Sessegnon - 16 league matches in his career

Weimann - unlikely to kick a ball again this season

Brunt - added very little so far

O’Dowda - hitting form but has been patchy in run up to injury

Dasilva - struggled with injury all year and form

Now, the above is pretty quick, crude and tongue in cheek look, however, my questions are these:

Out of the injured players, who is likely to not have a relapse? Why is that?

Of the remaining players do they have the quality or proven experience to make a difference to results in dramatic enough fashion to kick us on to the top 6 position we were assured was the aim?

A fully fit squad means numbers are swelled but not a guarantee of quality. A lot is being made of the injury list but I think we need to be very careful to use it as an ongoing reason for our performances.

 

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Just now, Northern Red said:

You appear to be suggesting that because we lost to them before, we have no chance of beating them next time.

Not sure I was. They were pointed out as potential candidates for relegation and I merely said that they had our number when we played them and have to play them again.

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