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Swansea and us- both coaches from England setup...spot the difference?

Mr Popodopolous

By Mr Popodopolous
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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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Swansea have Steve Cooper, we have Downing and Simpson. Both clubs have coaches who have therefore spent time in the England setup and the like.

One big difference however- granted Swansea have had 3 years of Parachute Payments and this is Cooper's 2nd year the first of which in normal times vs those two in Pandemic to begin with.

However I look at the utilisation of contacts- Swansea streets ahead!

2019/20

LOANED mainly:

  1. Wilmot
  2. Woodman

These two full season loans.

Half-season- Summer to January

  1. Surridge

Half-season- January to Summer

  1. Brewster
  2. Guehi
  3. Gallagher

All England youth...a setup in which Cooper worked for 5 years, from 2014-15 as England U16 manager, and 2015-2019 as England U19 manager.

Next season- ie the current one:

PERMANENT:

  1. Joel Latibeaudiere

RETURNING LOANEES:

  1. Woodman
  2. Guehi

Loanees subsequerntly recalled:

  1. Gibbs-White
  2. Think arguably even Palmer though he's not played at that level for a while?

What a difference. Who have we signed with our TWO England coaches, utilising and tapping into that contact market. Who rather than what you know in football is quite prevalent after all...

Steven Sessegnon on loan maybe the only one to date?

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tin

tin

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Posted

Totally agree, @Mr Popodopolous. I made a similar comment in a thread on the transfer forum about Swansea's seeminly imminent loan signing of Arsenal and England U20 forward Folarin Balogun. Perhaps there's a correlation with none of those loanees being on Wasserman's books? Or they simply have no interest in playing for a novice head coach? It's not like we create a glut of chances to be attractive to the likes of Brewster, Gallagher and Balogun. 

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

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Posted
6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Swansea have Steve Cooper, we have Downing and Simpson. Both clubs have coaches who have therefore spent time in the England setup and the like.

One big difference however- granted Swansea have had 3 years of Parachute Payments and this is Cooper's 2nd year the first of which in normal times vs those two in Pandemic to begin with.

However I look at the utilisation of contacts- Swansea streets ahead!

2019/20

LOANED mainly:

  1. Wilmot
  2. Woodman

These two full season loans.

Half-season- Summer to January

  1. Surridge

Half-season- January to Summer

  1. Brewster
  2. Guehi
  3. Gallagher

All England youth...a setup in which Cooper worked for 5 years, from 2014-15 as England U16 manager, and 2015-2019 as England U19 manager.

Next season- ie the current one:

PERMANENT:

  1. Joel Latibeaudiere

RETURNING LOANEES:

  1. Woodman
  2. Guehi

Loanees subsequerntly recalled:

  1. Gibbs-White
  2. Think arguably even Palmer though he's not played at that level for a while?

What a difference. Who have we signed with our TWO England coaches, utilising and tapping into that contact market. Who rather than what you know in football is quite prevalent after all...

Steven Sessegnon on loan maybe the only one to date?

And Brunt? 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Swansea have Steve Cooper, we have Downing and Simpson. Both clubs have coaches who have therefore spent time in the England setup and the like.

One big difference however- granted Swansea have had 3 years of Parachute Payments and this is Cooper's 2nd year the first of which in normal times vs those two in Pandemic to begin with.

However I look at the utilisation of contacts- Swansea streets ahead!

2019/20

LOANED mainly:

  1. Wilmot
  2. Woodman

These two full season loans.

Half-season- Summer to January

  1. Surridge

Half-season- January to Summer

  1. Brewster
  2. Guehi
  3. Gallagher

All England youth...a setup in which Cooper worked for 5 years, from 2014-15 as England U16 manager, and 2015-2019 as England U19 manager.

Next season- ie the current one:

PERMANENT:

  1. Joel Latibeaudiere

RETURNING LOANEES:

  1. Woodman
  2. Guehi

Loanees subsequerntly recalled:

  1. Gibbs-White
  2. Think arguably even Palmer though he's not played at that level for a while?

What a difference. Who have we signed with our TWO England coaches, utilising and tapping into that contact market. Who rather than what you know in football is quite prevalent after all...

Steven Sessegnon on loan maybe the only one to date?

Another difference....Cooper is the head-coach, Simpson and Downing are Assistant Head-Coaches.  The comparison should mainly be with Holden not KD and PS.

In terms of England Youth:

  • Sessegnon, as you say
  • Joe Williams, u20 debut by Keith Downing 

plus we already had Taylor Moore, Jay Dasilva and Kasey Palmer, who all featured under one of the two coaches.  Liam Walsh was Eng u18s, so not under either coach but part of England set up.  Alfie Mawson, albeit u21s, but it’s still England set up too.

As you pointed out the pandemic / timing maybe played a part too.  Cooper had the whole summer (appointed 13th June) to prepare, even 3 weeks before players returned to pre-season in his first year.  Ours is rushed.

I do think there seems to be “what stick can we hit the two coaches with” at the moment....yet they are two members of staff that we don’t really know how they undertake their roles, bar the odd training ground clip and pre-match team announcement interview.  We never beat up DH or JM for our recruitment did we?

 

 

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Hampshire Red

Hampshire Red

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Another difference; we started the season much better than Swansea; playing better football and winning more points

Now, partway through the season they are ahead on points; what do you know about the positions at the end of the season? It would be good if you can tell us with the smae degree of confidence you follow Swansea

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Pezo

Pezo

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Interesting perspective. 

I would like to hear a little more from the club about our processes. To me we seem to bounce from copying one club to copying the next always one step behind e.g. we copy Brentford but most of the time end up bidding for the same players - they have referenceable cases where they have made players better and sold them securing higher sell on's for the original club we have a few but not the same - as the originating club you will always pick Brentford. If our goal is to copy Swansea and take the best from the English youth system then once again we are going to be a step behind with (no offence meant) the second rate coaches.

Basically we haven't had the 5 pillars chat for a bit - our strategy seems to have lost its way and I think we could do with understanding if that is still the strategy or have we moved on to something else e.g. do we focus on different areas each season - we seem to spend a season spending on the defence, then the next on midfielders and then the following spending on strikers is that the strategy or just coincidence? 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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3 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Another difference; we started the season much better than Swansea; playing better football and winning more points

Now, partway through the season they are ahead on points; what do you know about the positions at the end of the season? It would be good if you can tell us with the smae degree of confidence you follow Swansea

Nothing to do in my case with following Swansea.

Merely an observation that they have utilised their contacts very well.

Football seems to me to have a strong element of contacts these days. Maybe it always did but with two ex England coaches, it feels like an untapped resource at this stage.

Simpson used to manage Preston too, is it too much to hope that one or more of Davies, Pearson, Browne, Johnson could be brought on a free...even Fisher if we need 2 right backs, one to consider as back up maybe? Or timescales all wrong?

All out of contract this summer!

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Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

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6 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I’ve no idea how Swansea play, but I’d wager it’s better football than ours. 

Historically quite good football, not too dissimilar to the Brentford in some ways. Obviously had to sacrifice a bit of style for pragmatism during their time in the Prem, but what they do really well is generally appoint coaches who commit to good football. They've done so since L1.

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Kid in the Riot

Kid in the Riot

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Historically quite good football, not too dissimilar to the Brentford in some ways. Obviously had to sacrifice a bit of style for pragmatism during their time in the Prem, but what they do really well is generally appoint coaches who commit to good football. They've done so since L1.

Bizarrely, it all started with Kenny Jackett! He got them into League One. 

Then they appointed some bloke called Roberto Martinez, followed by Brendan Rogers, and the rest is history.

 

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Hxj

Hxj

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16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

One big difference however- granted Swansea have had 3 years of Parachute Payments and this is Cooper's 2nd year the first of which in normal times vs those two in Pandemic to begin with.

Disappointed that you failed to mention the £90 million odd in Parachute Payments.

I'd bet you a pint that that has more to do with your perceived quality of the loan signings than the staff allegedly not doing their job properly.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Bizarrely, it all started with Kenny Jackett! He got them into League One. 

Then they appointed some bloke called Roberto Martinez, followed by Brendan Rogers, and the rest is history.

 

Latter days of Jackett- then Martinez really got it going, Sousa perhaps added some defensive solidity and strong possession, but not that exciting or prolific and Rodgers finished the job.

Laudrup took it on to some extent, but when that came to an end, it was the beginning of the end- Monk did a great short term job, but their philosophy went out the window! When Laudrup went so did his agent- and as a result I expect, did a lot of the signings that this connection utilised to good effect.

Monk was a club man but his football philosophy clearly differs.

26 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Disappointed that you failed to mention the £90 million odd in Parachute Payments.

I'd bet you a pint that that has more to do with your perceived quality of the loan signings than the staff allegedly not doing their job properly.

That can make a major, major difference for sure- well it's huge, was pondering the gulf in revenue earlier but one or two more loans would have been positive.

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Lrrr

Lrrr

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44 minutes ago, grifty said:

They've been here 6 months during the COVID pandemic and with the club for 1/2 a transfer window in which we signed Ryan Sessegnon on loan. Why do we not have the full England U21 team on loan? It's a disgrace.

Its a miracle he's not injured if he's playing for 2 teams

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1960maaan

1960maaan

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Good, interesting post Mr P.

What I would say is, I don't think we've been in a position to use their connections yet. 
We have been forced by circumstance , to keep players that we would have hoped to sell. With no money coming in we've promoted young players who may have been back up. With a yearly wage bill of around £16m (not 100% on that), you can understand the club being circumspect with almost no money coming in. 

I think we might have to wait to see if they can add anything through loans , I was surprised to see reports that we had bid for players. Fair play to SL if he stumps up again. 

 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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9 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Good, interesting post Mr P.

What I would say is, I don't think we've been in a position to use their connections yet. 
We have been forced by circumstance , to keep players that we would have hoped to sell. With no money coming in we've promoted young players who may have been back up. With a yearly wage bill of around £16m (not 100% on that), you can understand the club being circumspect with almost no money coming in. 

I think we might have to wait to see if they can add anything through loans , I was surprised to see reports that we had bid for players. Fair play to SL if he stumps up again. 

 

Double it!

The pure football ltd was £24.5m in 18/19....holdings ltd was over £30m!

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1960maaan

1960maaan

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46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Double it!

The pure football ltd was £24.5m in 18/19....holdings ltd was over £30m!

I did think it was low, but it was the only figure I could find. A similar sight had match day earnings at £225,000 a game, which again is low.
The point is, Mr Lansdown is , for all the money he's already spent, a sensible owner.  I don't see him spending much until things settle down.

Watch him prove me wrong and sign a new midfield now ?

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