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Team for Brentford


Colemanballs

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Brentford seem have most trouble against a 4-3-3/4-5-1 set up so I would go with

                Bentley

Vyner.  Kalas. Mawson. Rowe

 Nagy. Bakinson. Massengo

 Edwards.  Diedhiou. Semenyo 

Maybe Adelakun instead of Opi but Opi better defensively.  Would play Owura for some X factor possibility on the break but think he’s injured. 

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2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Brentford seem have most trouble against a 4-3-3/4-5-1 set up so I would go with

                Bentley

Vyner.  Kalas. Mawson. Rowe

 Nagy. Bakinson. Massengo

 Edwards.  Diedhiou. Semenyo 

Maybe Adelakun instead of Opi but Opi better defensively.  Would play Owura for some X factor possibility on the break but think he’s injured. 

Out of interest, what is it about these formations that they struggle with?  Is it the formation, or the quality of opposition, or style of opposition?

For me, trying to play Brentford with a system matched to theirs which is a fluid 433/451 (sometimes 4231), gives them an advantage....because they are so much better drilled in that system than we are.  Notwithstanding they have better players for that system than us.

I would accept us playing defensively and countering them.  Whether that’s based on a system or a mindset doesn’t really matter to me.

I’m not convinced it’s the game to start Pring....might need his legs as a sub.  Nor Palmer.

I’m finding it really difficult to come up with a team and game plan for this.  They do have some weaknesses, but I’m not sure how to overcome them.

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A midfield enforcer. Do we need one? 
 

We don’t seem to have one in the squad, Nagy is shy in the challenge and is Bakinson a good enough tackler? Williams can tackle, but he’s more box to box.

Maybe Vyner can do the job. Can he read the game well enough? 

 

Something like:

                       Bents

Hunt Mariappa Kalas Mawson Rowe

         Nagy    Vyner      Bakinson

                Wells   Martin


Perhaps too defensive, but why not set up solid and look for one on the break. Semenyo can come in when the game stretches. Fam to batter the back line last 15/20 mins.

 

Edit - is Hunt fit? Can’t keep up. If not Mapps RWB and Moore in CB Kalas RCB

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, what is it about these formations that they struggle with?  Is it the formation, or the quality of opposition, or style of opposition?

For me, trying to play Brentford with a system matched to theirs which is a fluid 433/451 (sometimes 4231), gives them an advantage....because they are so much better drilled in that system than we are.  Notwithstanding they have better players for that system than us.

I would accept us playing defensively and countering them.  Whether that’s based on a system or a mindset doesn’t really matter to me.

I’m not convinced it’s the game to start Pring....might need his legs as a sub.  Nor Palmer.

I’m finding it really difficult to come up with a team and game plan for this.  They do have some weaknesses, but I’m not sure how to overcome them.

Watched a decent amount of Brentford this season and it’s the 4-5-1 compact mid press that they struggled against most.  The Managers that are a bit more structured like Warnock, Mowbray and Cooper have had most joy I would say. 

Considered Pring and Palmer and wouldn’t be against it per se as both bring advantages on the break which I think is crucial in one way as need to give Brentford something to think about defensively or we will definitely lose. Blackburn, Boro and Swansea all did that 

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6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Watched a decent amount of Brentford this season and it’s the 4-5-1 compact mid press that they struggled against most.  The Managers that are a bit more structured like Warnock, Mowbray and Cooper have had most joy I would say. 

Considered Pring and Palmer and wouldn’t be against it per se as both bring advantages on the break which I think is crucial in one way as need to give Brentford something to think about defensively or we will definitely lose. Blackburn, Boro and Swansea all did that 

Ta.  I did suspect your answer might feature certain sides!  Yes, all 3 are well structured teams W/o the ball.  Swansea play a back 3, but good discipline in midfield helping them....whilst very good pair of WBs that would force Brentford’s wide forwards to have to do the thing they don’t like doing - working back.

All 3 sides make you play through a congested centre of the pitch thus making Brentford’s ability to advance into the final third more difficult.  All 3 sides are generally happy for you to pass it around inside your own half, but engage around the halfway line, where they are in solid position.

I’m starting to formulate a plan (ta).

Brentford play a high line too....that’s something we can exploit.  I saw some things yesterday to work on.

Just need the right eleven players....that’s the struggle!

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15 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Why are people putting Vyner in midfield? Have I missed something?

2 = Played there vs Pompey for a spell (and had played CM before on loan) and looked tidy.

+
 

2 = We have a powder puff tackle shy midfield that most teams seem able to dance through.

= 5! I don’t know, for me maybe a short term stop gap against Brentford, but I suspect unlikely.

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2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

2 = Played there vs Pompey for a spell (and had played CM before on loan) and looked tidy.

+
 

2 = We have a powder puff tackle shy midfield that most teams seem able to dance through.

= 5! I don’t know, for me maybe a short term stop gap against Brentford, but I suspect unlikely.

My head is lurching towards:

                                 Bentley

⬇️Hunt | Mariappa | Kalas | Mawson | Rowe⬇️

                                   Vyner

                       Someone | Someone

                            Martin | Diedhiou

 Vyner and the wingbacks key to not allowing it to become a back 6!

More thoughts later, when i will have changed my mind again.

 

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It would be an improvement  if we could develop a more attacking style of play, not worry about overthinking how to negate the opposition, let them worry about us.

Watching yesterday we seem pedestrian at best, allowed their players too much time on the ball and crosses came in at alarming regularity.

I can appreciate that our better players are missing but even when everyone is fit we always seem to play with the handbrake on.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My head is lurching towards:

                                 Bentley

⬇️Hunt | Mariappa | Kalas | Mawson | Rowe⬇️

                                   Vyner

                       Someone | Someone

                            Martin | Diedhiou

 Vyner and the wingbacks key to not allowing it to become a back 6!

More thoughts later, when i will have changed my mind again.

 

Giving that Vyner is a far better player than when he played that holding MF role last year, it could be an answer to a question that we've been asking for a while. If we stick with Nagy & Bakinson I think that MF looks good. Nagy has much more about him and he can get forward well, TB needs to cut out those giveaway passes.
I would swap Wells for Martin, but that's just me. I wonder if Vyner could do Williams role until he is actually fit.

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16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My head is lurching towards:

                                 Bentley

⬇️Hunt | Mariappa | Kalas | Mawson | Rowe⬇️

                                   Vyner

                       Someone | Someone

                            Martin | Diedhiou

 Vyner and the wingbacks key to not allowing it to become a back 6!

More thoughts later, when i will have changed my mind again.

 

I would agree with that but go with Nagy and HNM in midfield in front of Vyner, Bakinson is a bit too casual for me at the moment and Nagy and HNM dont give the ball away quite as much.

If we use that system your correct about Vyner and the wing backs not getting dragged into a back 6 as that would just invite constant pressure, we would have to hold our shape with this..

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Bentley

Hunt Vyner Kalas Mawson Pring

Massengo Nagy Bakinson

Semenyo Wells

Hunt and Pring give us outlets with some pace and same with Semenyo and Wells. We won’t have much of the ball but Massengo and Nagy can help stifle their midfield with their energy if they don’t go ball chasing. 
 

To be honest, I do not have much hope for this one but think this lineup at least is full of energy and about as much pace as we can muster. If it is close late can bring on Martin and Fam to perhaps bully them a bit but generally not a fan of that partnership and there more time that goes on the more I want rid of both

 

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So I think we'll get hammered so what I want to do is to lay out a blueprint for what we're going to do going forwards as our new plan A. 

I see a lot of people posting teams that offer little to no support for the strikers with like 3 defensive midfielders in it AND defensive fullbacks/wingbacks. We're going to be on the back foot so we need outlets.

I'm kinda unsure who is available, like Hunt and I don't know the test date of Palmers failed one so

                      Bentley

Mariappa   Kalas   Mawson   Rowe

                   Vyner Nagy

 Adelakun   Wells (8/10/Free)   Semenyo

                        Diedhiou

Or go back to original plan A with

                     Bentley

         Mariappa   Kalas   Mawson 

Vyner                 Nagy                 Rowe

          Adelakun               Semenyo

      + Martin/Diedhiou    Wells

Both line ups have the same personnel. With 6 defensive players in the team that hopefully allows support for the strikers and enables risk taking.

I  think the team will be the same as vs Portsmouth due to DH selection policy. At most changes to the fullbacks and Vyner into midfield.

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1 hour ago, Prinny said:

So I think we'll get hammered so what I want to do is to lay out a blueprint for what we're going to do going forwards as our new plan A. 

I see a lot of people posting teams that offer little to no support for the strikers with like 3 defensive midfielders in it AND defensive fullbacks/wingbacks. We're going to be on the back foot so we need outlets.

I'm kinda unsure who is available, like Hunt and I don't know the test date of Palmers failed one so

                      Bentley

Mariappa   Kalas   Mawson   Rowe

                   Vyner Nagy

 Adelakun   Wells (8/10/Free)   Semenyo

                        Diedhiou

Or go back to original plan A with

                     Bentley

         Mariappa   Kalas   Mawson 

Vyner                 Nagy                 Rowe

          Adelakun               Semenyo

      + Martin/Diedhiou    Wells

Both line ups have the same personnel. With 6 defensive players in the team that hopefully allows support for the strikers and enables risk taking.

I  think the team will be the same as vs Portsmouth due to DH selection policy. At most changes to the fullbacks and Vyner into midfield.

Just commenting generally (not on your teams above)....the biggest problem I have when City play 442 or 4231 or 433 is that we string ourselves across the pitch and don’t make ourselves compact.  We don’t make ourselves compact the other way either, but that’s another story.

If I felt we might have the intelligence to tuck-in in a 4231, rather than the outside ones in the 3 play as wingers I could form some workable line-ups.  It’s just my fear that we won’t.

Yesterday, even in a 442, I saw both Adelakun and Semenyo drift in off their wings.  Off the ball on their left side I noted Adelakun tucked in nice and narrow, which was good to see.  It meant Bakinson and Nagy should’ve been able to close that half of the pitch better, but they didn’t do it effectively.  Semenyo, not quite as good shape-wise, but he did lots of good things with the ball.

Lots still to ponder! ?

Your second team is in effect the 352 we played early this season...although I’m not sure we’d define as a 6 and two 8s.  Maybe more a 4 and two 10s ???

 

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1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

Preston are the only team to win at Brentford this season, 4-2, after scoring four second half goals.

They played a 4-2-3-1 and achieved 56% possession: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54305593#tab-Line-ups

Here are the highlights: 

 

 

 

 

That 4th goal is questionable, no way the ball is where it should be when the corner is taken.

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We don't have the players or skill at the moment to take a game to a team like Brentford so got to set up defensively especially away.

As others have mentioned 4-5-1 would be my best option:

                           Bentley

      Mariappa, Kalas, Mawson, Rowe,

Semenyo, Nagy, Bakinson, HNM, Adelakun

                           Diedhiou

 

Bench: Martin, Moore, Wells, Pring, Vyner, Palmer (if recovered), O'Leary, Opi Edwards, Owura Edwards. 

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So.... to sum up. Countless formations and options within those formations. 
Players who can play in multiple positions (eg Vyner). Players who can’t but get played in multiple positions anyway (eg Wells). 
This just seems the end product of not sticking to a way of playing (front foot) and formation (352) and an ongoing culture of “clubs in the bag” meaning you can keep chopping and changing and getting into a confused mess. 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Just commenting generally (not on your teams above)....the biggest problem I have when City play 442 or 4231 or 433 is that we string ourselves across the pitch and don’t make ourselves compact.  We don’t make ourselves compact the other way either, but that’s another story.

If I felt we might have the intelligence to tuck-in in a 4231, rather than the outside ones in the 3 play as wingers I could form some workable line-ups.  It’s just my fear that we won’t.

Yesterday, even in a 442, I saw both Adelakun and Semenyo drift in off their wings.  Off the ball on their left side I noted Adelakun tucked in nice and narrow, which was good to see.  It meant Bakinson and Nagy should’ve been able to close that half of the pitch better, but they didn’t do it effectively.  Semenyo, not quite as good shape-wise, but he did lots of good things with the ball.

Lots still to ponder! ?

Your second team is in effect the 352 we played early this season...although I’m not sure we’d define as a 6 and two 8s.  Maybe more a 4 and two 10s ???

Mm, I tried to make the best plan A and plan B teams I could. 3-5-2 and the 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 variants because I'm not sold on 4-4-2 as the best option. I hoped it was just to target Wycombe tbh!

What do you think about the 4-4-2 with current available players?

I think it "worked" vs Wycombe because of the disgusting mismatch between O'Dowda and their small slow weak fullback. I think it "worked" yesterday because our strikers were better than their opposition. I'm very unsure of any 2 in centre mid, and I do not trust Adelakun/Semenyo defensively without serious help vs competent championship opposition.

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3 hours ago, Curr Avon said:

Preston are the only team to win at Brentford this season, 4-2, after scoring four second half goals.

They played a 4-2-3-1 and achieved 56% possession: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54305593#tab-Line-ups

Here are the highlights: 

 

 

 

 

That's their only home loss this season? Preston are a funny side, seem to get some great results and displays but some terrible ones too- see also their win at Bournemouth, draw at Norwich on the positive- but defeat at home to a struggling Nottingham Forest just recently and draw at home v Wycombe a few weeks back!

Going to watch those highlights in a minute but I took a quick look at the sides on the day. Raya and Henry were out for Brentford and quite importantly, at 1-0 to them, Norgaard came off- he seems quite important for them balance wise and defensively- not saying he's irreplaceable but he's quite important. I assume Raya, Henry and also before he left Benrahma were benched due to interest in them from other clubs- they picked some odd sides early season, Brentford.

Having a read of the setups, Preston's 4-2-3-1 was one that could slot into a 4-3-3 quite easily- Ledson and Pearson at the base, Browne central in the '3'- easily can become a 4-3-3! No Johnson, dunno if he was injured, suspended or what but usually it can be Pearson and Browne at the base, Johnson in the Browne role.

I digress- we have a lot of injuries but with DaSilva suspended, Norgaard might be out and maybe Jansson too we can have a crack here? Areas to exploit centrally.

Not saying that Marcondes and Janelt are poor players- but Marcondes perhaps has a more of an attacking rather than CM bias to his play, Janelt is young, don't know a huge amount about. Unsure how much experienced depth below Jansson and Pinnock they have at CB.

Might also express a note of caution- when Preston were pushing high at 1-0, that led to the 2-0 to Brentford- maybe they can counter a bit more readily this season as part of their strategy.

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