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Team for Brentford


Colemanballs

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Think a medium press, if that's anything to go by could be a good strategy.

We could go 4-3-3, but less seeking to dominate the ball. On a side note, Preston get a lot of flak for their style of play and off the ball antics but thought they had some lovely moves/play in that set of highlights. Wouldn't show the bad stuff of course, but I question whether their rep in general terms is always deserved- a midfield of when fit Potts, Browne and Johnson definitely has good footballing ability.

Some players drifting in and out, seemed to cause Brentford issues in that.

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1 hour ago, Prinny said:

What do you think about the 4-4-2 with current available players?

I think it "worked" vs Wycombe because of the disgusting mismatch between O'Dowda and their small slow weak fullback. I think it "worked" yesterday because our strikers were better than their opposition. I'm very unsure of any 2 in centre mid, and I do not trust Adelakun/Semenyo defensively without serious help vs competent championship opposition.

Seriously?  Effin hate it!  But to qualify, I hate the way we play it (in the main).  

I like that you put worked in speech marks, because as we saw it also “didn’t work” for good portions of those games too.  Is it the formation though?  Partly.  Personnel?  Partly.  Inability to react to changes real-time?  Partly.  Sometimes it’s been opposition tweaks, yesterday I felt it was our own tiredness, initially leading to giving up possession, but also not making the same runs / movement as first half as we then turned over possession and got transitioned on far too easily.  The worrying thing for me is that we showed little ability to resume control and it ends up being end to end....and we have two guys up top (Fam / Martin - not their fault) who aren’t 90 minute players in the main, that don’t help.

Sounds negative, but earlier this season one of the coaches referred to subs as “finishers” rather than subs....and I know we have injuries, but I think we allow players to get tired, lose their effect, hence allow opposition to get on top....all before we make subs.  Those subs then have a difficult job wrestling back control.  Need to make subs from a position of strength.

I’m not one for knee-jerk h-t subs, but Nagy was walking a tightrope on a yellow and he’d lost his effectiveness.  He almost got pulled up for catching their left back early in second half, but I don’t think ref knew which one of our two players going for the ball made the challenge.  Might Bakinson have made less poor mistakes in the second period with a different partner.  Massengo passed it crisply when he came on, he tries to pass it firmly with pace.  Vyner made that “firm” pass between two Pompey players to put Rowe in for the cross that ultimately led to the goal.  Nagy would’ve been too tired to hit a firm pass like that.

I digress.

Is it a valid system?  Yes.  Great article on twitter today from James Tarkowski.

Couple of screenshots in the tweet response if you’ve not got the athletic.

We could learn a lot about 442 from Burnley.

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A critique I'd make of Burnley and their setup is that it is or has often been quite reactive. Albeit they can have some technical players through the side- Tarkowski, McNeil, Brownhill, Rodriguez and at times, Vydra. Defour was technically sound too, fairly sure he had lengthy injuries.

Full credit to them, no doubting what they've achieved too but a proactive, seeking to dominate side they often have not been under Dyche.

Nothing wrong with that and especially on their budget at that level but is it what we'd want? Style wise I mean. Will be interesting to read that Twitter thread in depth.

IF they field a partially asymmetrical Brownhill narrower right midfielder, McNeil wider, 2 CMs.

Then pair Wood and depending on form, fitness one of Rodriguez or Vydra, that can morph into a bit more control, kind of 4-2-3-1. Even 4-3-3 in some circs, if Wood unfit then Rodriguez and Vydra decent footballing, McNeil higher, Brownhill inside bit of a 4-3-3 of sorts. Wood is a must when fit, an excellent pivot and probably underrated technically. Could be quite fluid!

A lot of the time though, they seem to press high at times or play some great periods of football but overall fairly reactive as I say.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I digress- we have a lot of injuries but with DaSilva suspended, Norgaard might be out and maybe Jansson too we can have a crack here? Areas to exploit centrally.

 

I digress here, as well.

Whilst checking whether cards are competition specific - they are for red cards - I noticed that Rene Gilmartin is suspended until 9 May 2021!

Were you (or @Davefevs) aware of this and, if so, do you know why he is subject to such a lenthy suspension?

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39 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I digress here, as well.

Whilst checking whether cards are competition specific - they are for red cards - I noticed that Rene Gilmartin is suspended until 9 May 2021!

Were you (or @Davefevs) aware of this and, if so, do you know why he is subject to such a lenthy suspension?

Is that from Transfermarkt?  If so I suspect it’s an error and down purely to the fact that he’s not been given a squad number in the 25.

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                        Bentley 

 Hunt        Kalas         Mawson     Rowe

   massengo      Nagy     Bakinson

                         Palmer

             Wells               Diedhiou                                 
 

Oleary, Marriapa , vyner, pring, adelakun, Martin , semenyo, 

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Could we play a different type of front three? 2 of Martin, Wells or Fammy cetnral with Semenyo in behind? Semenyo would track back, be able to drift wide to either flank, have space to run at the defense + already has 7 assists this season. Somewhere between 5-3-2 and 5-2-3, something like:

                         Bentley

            Vyner    Kalas   Mawson

Hunt         Bakinson    Nagy          Rowe

                       Semenyo

                Diedhiou      Wells

 

Edit: Could also give Palmer some minutes (if fit enough) in the same role to see how he does/ease hime back in - less defensive contribution, but more creativity.

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are you guys picking Wells becuase he may play better than at any time since joining us, just becuase he can impress someone in West London? Or is it the law of averages he may have a shot on target or are you not watching his contribution in the past 6-10 games. Please update me becuase i am really intereseted to know. Do you think he is off to one of these clubs.

 

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38 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

are you guys picking Wells becuase he may play better than at any time since joining us, just becuase he can impress someone in West London? Or is it the law of averages he may have a shot on target or are you not watching his contribution in the past 6-10 games. Please update me becuase i am really intereseted to know. Do you think he is off to one of these clubs.

 

I don’t think he’s been great, but he hasn’t been as bad as people make out either....plus pretty much played out of position for several games....in a side that’s generally not playing well.

But the MDT can be embarrassing with some of the people who can’t wait to post about every bad touch, but are totally inconsistent with their praise and criticism of other players.  I don’t read it during the match...makes me wonder how people watch and post at the same time.  But reading it back in full afterwards is hilarious.  The agendas on the MDT are so obvious. It wouldn’t surprise me if some have their comments ready, waiting to press enter.

I suggest we play him in his best position in a consistent system and then judge.  Earlier this season, alongside Martin and with Pato and Weimann behind him he was starting to play better (for the team)....and last time I looked he is still our top scorer.  Earlier this season he often got withdrawn for last 15-20 minutes and we spurned chances to make games safe, which you might expect him to take some of.

Has he been as good as I hoped?  No, but I think people just won’t see anything good in him.  So what if he doesn’t look happy....too much made of that imho.  I’d rather he was unhappy than couldn’t give a toss.  I think some of our players smile too much, and are too content.

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Always concerning when you go from everyone picking a very similar team and formation to about 5 different formations and no two teams looking the same!

Is the question though what I would do personally, or what I think we should do?

I think we should stick with what we have practiced, recruited for, and played, so that's our 5 - 3 - 2. It's fine to tweak but that's what I think we should stick with.

What I'd personally do though is play a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1.

Bakinson and Nagy as the 2, Semenyo, Massengo, +1 (Adelekun?) as the 3, and Fam up top. Swap Fam for Wells second half potentially to give them something else to think about.

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17 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Always concerning when you go from everyone picking a very similar team and formation to about 5 different formations and no two teams looking the same!

Is the question though what I would do personally, or what I think we should do?

I think we should stick with what we have practiced, recruited for, and played, so that's our 5 - 3 - 2. It's fine to tweak but that's what I think we should stick with.

What I'd personally do though is play a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1.

Bakinson and Nagy as the 2, Semenyo, Massengo, +1 (Adelekun?) as the 3, and Fam up top. Swap Fam for Wells second half potentially to give them something else to think about.

Palmer maybe? That could be nice and asymmetrical. That could be interesting- Adelakun I'm not too sure on, but that would give us a better chance of stopping the 2 v 1- like the template, could even shift into a 4-2-2-2 in phases.

Think that tactical shape could be ideal for Wednesday though, with the current personnel.

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9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Palmer maybe? That could be nice and asymmetrical. That could be interesting- Adelakun I'm not too sure on, but that would give us a better chance of stopping the 2 v 1- like the template, could even shift into a 4-2-2-2 in phases.

Think that tactical shape could be ideal for Wednesday though, with the current personnel.

Yeah good call, Palmer could work - wasn't sure if he'd be available though? I'm not sure on Adelakun yet either, but then I've barely seen him.

Palmer would probably fit more naturally in the middle I think, but I want to see Massengo in his actual position (or what I think it is?) which is why I'd play him there. I'm not a fan of moving players around hoping to stumble on something that works... and even if it does it rarely lasts!

Pick a system, pick players for it, and play them there. Tweak it, don't rip it up if it's not going to plan!

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2 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

are you guys picking Wells becuase he may play better than at any time since joining us, just becuase he can impress someone in West London? Or is it the law of averages he may have a shot on target or are you not watching his contribution in the past 6-10 games. Please update me becuase i am really intereseted to know. Do you think he is off to one of these clubs.

 

I have been critical of him, but it's not entirely his fault. Using him wide of a 3 or winger is, IMO, wasting him. He has been poor, his touch has looked clumsy and he's been hunting the ball. I'm probably guilty of not giving him credit for the work he's done without the ball and the runs he makes. I'm more focused on the fact that out best finisher, best poacher and someone who could win a game from nothing, but is doing the donkey work and mostly in positions he'll struggle to score. Holden seems to have lost focus on the 3-5-2 and is now hunting a formation, I just want to see him in the box.

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It's a bit dated now given the respective form or at least output of different players but I wonder, if Palmer available, if...

               Bentley

Hunt Kalas Mawson Rowe

 Bakinson Nagy Massengo

               Palmer

         Martin   Wells

I don't know how well Palmer and Diedhiou would mesh, whereas Martin is a strong pivot. Vyner in midfield also a possible- my prior idea was Wells and Semenyo paired, but the form and goals of the two.

Martin of course is important but his condition I read about on the Derby forum makes me wary of overplaying him- Semenyo can be quite high energy, and Palmer to Wells is a possible combination- feels like we're just that little bit short of a perfect combination, with the injuries. Martin and Diedhiou? Well concerns about overplaying Martin. Wells? Seems to be getting quite a lot of flak- Semenyo? Has assets but not prolific yet.

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1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Palmer did have a very good game away at Brentford last season.

Well, I say game. More like first half where Palmer, Semenyo and Weimann looked a threat on the break. Best chance of the half a Palmer one on one, really should have buried it.

Brentford were mainly all over us in terms of possession, but I thought we did really well defensively and hitting them on the break we looked a threat.

2nd half LJ changes everything and we look all over the place! Lucky to get a point in the end.

I like your team, just not sure if we'd cope in the wide areas.

I'd probably go some kind of 451 for this one.

We did indeed.  One of Palmer’s last starts from memory (and Semenyo too - ???)....yet two draws in two tough away games (PNE and Brentford).  Nothing was particularly broke, but Lee changed it,.

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There is some very creative tactical analysis going on in this thread and it's interesting to read but, IMO, it is exactly this kind of overthinking that has got us in the mess we are in. The players seem lost with all these formation switches. We need to follow the KISS approach,  switch back to the 3-5-2 that served us so well at the start of the season and stick with it come hell or high water. 

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8 minutes ago, Colemanballs said:

There is some very creative tactical analysis going on in this thread and it's interesting to read but, IMO, it is exactly this kind of overthinking that has got us in the mess we are in. The players seem lost with all these formation switches. We need to follow the KISS approach,  switch back to the 3-5-2 that served us so well at the start of the season and stick with it come hell or high water. 

I agree, but then if you told me that Dean was gonna switch to one of our posters team / system and stick with it for the rest of the season, I’d go with that.

I’ve not really deviated away from the thoughts of 352, but we all try to envisage what we might do when our head-coach had gone 433, 4213 and 442....even 424 at times this season.

Its the chopping and changing that’s not helping, I agree.

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I agree, but then if you told me that Dean was gonna switch to one of our posters team / system and stick with it for the rest of the season, I’d go with that.

I’ve not really deviated away from the thoughts of 352, but we all try to envisage what we might do when our head-coach had gone 433, 4213 and 442....even 424 at times this season.

Its the chopping and changing that’s not helping, I agree.

The reason I'd go 3-5-2 (apart from the fact that we did pretty well playing it at the start of the season) is that it is presumably the system he has spent most time on. I'd imagine that most of the limited pre-season was spent on that system. The players should be familiar with what is required of them. Evidence seems to suggest that is the case.

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1 hour ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Can someone explain why Vyner is in midfield on these suggestions ... 

It's one of the positions he plays. He played there at Aberdeen. He impressed in that area vs Portsmouth. He has the physical traits and willingness to attack and also tackle. The other midfielders also have flaws. He might not be in the team as a centre back now Mawson is back and Mariappa has been extended.

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6 hours ago, Prinny said:

It's one of the positions he plays. He played there at Aberdeen. He impressed in that area vs Portsmouth. He has the physical traits and willingness to attack and also tackle. The other midfielders also have flaws. He might not be in the team as a centre back now Mawson is back and Mariappa has been extended.

And he played there as sub for City a couple of times post-return from lockdown last season.

I’m not totally ok with it, but if I had to pick him there or Taylor Moore (as suggested last week) it would be Vyner every day of the week.

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Dean before picking the team consider this :-

“Because your mind has a duality to it … so when one thought goes into your mind, it’s not just one thought, it has to bounce off both hemispheres of the brain. When you’re thinking about something happy, you’re thinking about something sad. When you think about an apple, you also think about the opposite of an apple. It’s a tool for understanding mathematics and things with two separate realities. But for creativity: That comes from a place of oneness. That’s not a duality consciousness. And you can’t listen to your mind in those times — it’ll tell you what you think and also what other people think.”

Should make selection a lot easier

(Taken from Pseuds Corner )

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16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's their only home loss this season? Preston are a funny side, seem to get some great results and displays but some terrible ones too- see also their win at Bournemouth, draw at Norwich on the positive- but defeat at home to a struggling Nottingham Forest just recently and draw at home v Wycombe a few weeks back!

Going to watch those highlights in a minute but I took a quick look at the sides on the day. Raya and Henry were out for Brentford and quite importantly, at 1-0 to them, Norgaard came off- he seems quite important for them balance wise and defensively- not saying he's irreplaceable but he's quite important. I assume Raya, Henry and also before he left Benrahma were benched due to interest in them from other clubs- they picked some odd sides early season, Brentford.

Having a read of the setups, Preston's 4-2-3-1 was one that could slot into a 4-3-3 quite easily- Ledson and Pearson at the base, Browne central in the '3'- easily can become a 4-3-3! No Johnson, dunno if he was injured, suspended or what but usually it can be Pearson and Browne at the base, Johnson in the Browne role.

I digress- we have a lot of injuries but with DaSilva suspended, Norgaard might be out and maybe Jansson too we can have a crack here? Areas to exploit centrally.

Not saying that Marcondes and Janelt are poor players- but Marcondes perhaps has a more of an attacking rather than CM bias to his play, Janelt is young, don't know a huge amount about. Unsure how much experienced depth below Jansson and Pinnock they have at CB.

Might also express a note of caution- when Preston were pushing high at 1-0, that led to the 2-0 to Brentford- maybe they can counter a bit more readily this season as part of their strategy.

Norguaard our best mid fielder has missed the last 14 leagues games where we are unbeaten.Dasilva will be a miss but expect Pontus to start.So we will start tomorrow night with only one player who started Saturday against Boro,Pinnock although Ghoddas could come in for Dasilva.Unlike you we have been very lucky with injuries so far expect a tight game saw your game at weekend v Pompey will you have a similar line up?

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27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And he played there as sub for City a couple of times post-return from lockdown last season.

I’m not totally ok with it, but if I had to pick him there or Taylor Moore (as suggested last week) it would be Vyner every day of the week.

If I have pick a two man central midfield, and I'm trying to get a one off result vs Brentford, I think I pick Vyner and Nagy and I don't like it much! I wasn't happy with Bakinson, Nagy. I'd want that to be it, but neither played great.

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15 minutes ago, Prinny said:

If I have pick a two man central midfield, and I'm trying to get a one off result vs Brentford, I think I pick Vyner and Nagy and I don't like it much! I wasn't happy with Bakinson, Nagy. I'd want that to be it, but neither played great.

Totally agree.  The two just don’t work as a pairing.

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