Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

IGNORED

Is this what was needed rather than VAR?


Recommended Posts

Bristol Bears and England prop Kyle Sinckler will miss the start of the Six Nations after being banned for two weeks for swearing at a referee.

He will miss England's opener against Scotland on 6 February, but will be back to face Italy a week later.

Sinckler, 27, contested the charge of failing to respect the authority of a match official at a hearing on Tuesday.

However, it was ruled he did direct his "aggressive" language towards Karl Dickson in Bristol's win at Exeter.

His actions early in the second half of Saturday's Premiership fixture at Sandy Park were also deemed to have warranted a red card.

 

When was a footballer last yellow carded, let alone red carded, for something similar?

Perhaps it was the gradual erosion of respect for match officials, arguing the toss over almost  every contentious decision on the pitch, usually followed by the manager then pulling the match official to shreds, that caused the authorities to decide that technology was the only answer.

Now, of course, players and managers, pull apart VAR decisions that go against their teams, while match officials have seemingly become impotent, and almost seem to rely on technology making decisions, so they can sidestep any criticism.

The relationship between players and referees in rugby has long seemed very different from that which exists in football with far better levels of communication, that in turn seems to create greater mutual respect. 

It will be interesting tho see if that changes, as more money comes into top level rugby, as has been the case with football.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rugby has set a ‘culture’ bar way above and ahead of that of football.

The mutual respect shown between players and referees is but one example.

One thing I find, rugby referees having sound, is that their clarity of thought is simply outstanding in such pressured circumstances.

 

Many things could be taken for rugby and applied to football. It truly is a breath of fresh air compared to the stale shite that football - full of over-paid, self-important wasters - is rapidly becoming. 

Edited by RedRock
  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

With systems in place both before and during VAR, ego issues are rife in football refs in this country at the top level. We never hear of official censure by the FA of referees for incompetence, they are mostly left to rot and fall down the league ladder. The biggest problem with enabling further discpline of players on-field is that it would not innately ensure the refs are held to the same standards.

Edited by sephjnr
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Rugby has set a ‘culture’ bar way above and ahead of that of football.

The mutual respect shown between players and referees is but one example.

One thing I find, rugby referees having sound, is that their clarity of thought is simply outstanding in such pressured circumstances.

 

Many things could be taken for rugby and applied to football. It truly is a breath of fresh air compared to the stale shite that football - full of over-paid, self-important wasters - is rapidly becoming. 

Hear, hear. And sin-bins for yellow cards would properly punish offenders.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you imagine what would happen if Rugby officials managed a full fixture of Football matches?  Pampered, snowflake footballers and managers would be up in arms throwing tantrums and complaining that the 'spirit of the game' was ruined as a result of the clamp down on behaviour.  I doubt a full 90 minutes of a single game would be completed. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said:

Can you imagine what would happen if Rugby officials managed a full fixture of Football matches?  Pampered, snowflake footballers and managers would be up in arms throwing tantrums and complaining that the 'spirit of the game' was ruined as a result of the clamp down on behaviour.  I doubt a full 90 minutes of a single game would be completed. 

I think I'm right in saying that Nigel Owens has retired/is about to. 

This guy is at the top of refereeing and the FA could do worse than sign him up to advise on how footballs officials can operate better, build respect with and from players and, crucially, how best to use and apply technology. 

In all these areas NO would appear to have more knowledge, experience ability and success than anyone involved with football! 

Edited by downendcity
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

Hear, hear. And sin-bins for yellow cards would properly punish offenders.

How I'd love sin bins or moving the ball forward 10 yards for things like cynical yellow cards for stopping counter attacks, there is no real punishment to the defending team other than the yellow card which is a case of 'so what' 95% of the time.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

There was an 'attempt' at a respect the referee campaign where a few cards were dished out but like every refereeing initiative it was ignored/not enforced by refs after about a month and never heard from again when it didn't effect players.

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

There was an 'attempt' at a respect the referee campaign where a few cards were dished out but like every refereeing initiative it was ignored/not enforced by refs after about a month and never heard from again when it didn't effect players.

Too much of the “tail wagging the dog”.

They introduced the ides of moving a free-kick back 10 years if players dissented the decision, but that soon fell by the wayside in the face of criticism from managers and players. Similarly the “clamp down” on defenders holding ( wrestling!) attacking players at corners and free kicks initially resulted in a spate of penalty decisions, but again this soon died a death in the face of adverse reactions from players and managers.

Unfortunately, money now talks too loudly in football, and especially at the top end of the game. It has long seemed that the governing bodies/rule makers are more concerned with not upsetting those that hold the financial power than making decisions for the betterment ( and integrity) of the game itself.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Too much of the “tail wagging the dog”.

They introduced the ides of moving a free-kick back 10 years if players dissented the decision, but that soon fell by the wayside in the face of criticism from managers and players. Similarly the “clamp down” on defenders holding ( wrestling!) attacking players at corners and free kicks initially resulted in a spate of penalty decisions, but again this soon died a death in the face of adverse reactions from players and managers.

Unfortunately, money now talks too loudly in football, and especially at the top end of the game. It has long seemed that the governing bodies/rule makers are more concerned with not upsetting those that hold the financial power than making decisions for the betterment ( and integrity) of the game itself.

 

There appears to be a very small pool of referees who are picked for the "big" games and self interest in keeping up with the elite seems to colour their judgement sometimes. Far to close to the players - you need referees who they will respect not ones that are checking their diaries for the next trip to Old Trafford.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Loco Rojo said:

Can you imagine what would happen if Rugby officials managed a full fixture of Football matches?  Pampered, snowflake footballers and managers would be up in arms throwing tantrums and complaining that the 'spirit of the game' was ruined as a result of the clamp down on behaviour.  I doubt a full 90 minutes of a single game would be completed. 

They'd probably be quite lenient on the issue of hand balls to be honest....

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an old saying: "Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans, rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen.' There has always been a culture difference, though money might be an increasing influence, I fear.

In the Toolstation League there is a system of sin-binning players for dissent and such like transgressions; I have not seen many games but there have been a few occasions where it's been used. Perhaps the authorities are testing it out before rolling it out at professional level?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Erithacus said:

It's an old saying: "Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans, rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen.' There has always been a culture difference, though money might be an increasing influence, I fear.

In the Toolstation League there is a system of sin-binning players for dissent and such like transgressions; I have not seen many games but there have been a few occasions where it's been used. Perhaps the authorities are testing it out before rolling it out at professional level?

I wondered which level it started at as they do it in lower grass roots leagues I’m involved with- yet to see one in 2-3 seasons

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, downendcity said:

Bristol Bears and England prop Kyle Sinckler will miss the start of the Six Nations after being banned for two weeks for swearing at a referee.

He will miss England's opener against Scotland on 6 February, but will be back to face Italy a week later.

Sinckler, 27, contested the charge of failing to respect the authority of a match official at a hearing on Tuesday.

However, it was ruled he did direct his "aggressive" language towards Karl Dickson in Bristol's win at Exeter.

His actions early in the second half of Saturday's Premiership fixture at Sandy Park were also deemed to have warranted a red card.

 

When was a footballer last yellow carded, let alone red carded, for something similar?

Perhaps it was the gradual erosion of respect for match officials, arguing the toss over almost  every contentious decision on the pitch, usually followed by the manager then pulling the match official to shreds, that caused the authorities to decide that technology was the only answer.

Now, of course, players and managers, pull apart VAR decisions that go against their teams, while match officials have seemingly become impotent, and almost seem to rely on technology making decisions, so they can sidestep any criticism.

The relationship between players and referees in rugby has long seemed very different from that which exists in football with far better levels of communication, that in turn seems to create greater mutual respect. 

It will be interesting tho see if that changes, as more money comes into top level rugby, as has been the case with football.

 

As second poster so rightly says there is a big difference in rugby toward referees.

However as one who has followed both codes since 1950, it's not all rosy and squeaky clean in rugby. Since, or in fact just a few years before, the advent of professionalism, it was clear to me and many others, that the players were pushing the limits in a way not previously seen.

Now, time wasting is rampant, the forward pass is considered acceptable except when it's over obvious. Line outs don't have a gap anymore, ball thrown "slightly" away from the centre. Scrum halves feed the second row of the scrum. And loads more.

Kyle Sinckler used the F word which is now so common in everyday speech it is hardly noticed. He had just been illegally tackled in a way that could have finished his career. He reacted not with abuse to the referee but with fxxxxxg used to emphasize the danger he had just been in. The referee dealt with it there and then. So no need for a citing. And the one who committed the career threatening illegal tackle? Not even spoken to by the referee.

Perhaps the meaning of the "F" word should be amended from it's original meaning to "emphasis of the subject word".

Edited by cidered abroad
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

As second poster so rightly says there is a big difference in rugby toward referees.

However as one who has followed both codes since 1950, it's not all rosy and squeaky clean in rugby. Since, or in fact just a few years before, the advent of professionalism, it was clear to me and many others, that the players were pushing the limits in a way not previously seen.

Now, time wasting is rampant, the forward pass is considered acceptable except when it's over obvious. Line outs don't have a gap anymore, ball thrown "slightly" away from the centre. Scrum halves feed the second row of the scrum. And loads more.

Kyle Sinckler used the F word which is now so common in everyday speech it is hardly noticed. He had just been illegally tackled in a way that could have finished his career. He reacted not with abuse to the referee but with fxxxxxg used to emphasize the danger he had just been in. The referee dealt with it there and then. So no need for a citing. And the one who committed the career threatening illegal tackle? Not even spoken to by the referee.

Perhaps the meaning of the "F" word should be amended from it's original meaning to "emphasis of the subject word".

Absolutely right re rugby players pushing the limits more since professionalism. I remember watching Matt Dawson 20 odd years ago At Kingsholm and him berating the ref even then. But it’s still hardly comparable to the abuse in football. As Nigel Owens used to say to stamp out any talking back: ‘this isn’t soccer you know!’ That said I have some sympathy with Sinckler for the reason you mention.

One similarity between the sports though is that both have and are still trying to make their games safer (despite this incident) e.g. contact with the head in rugby and tackles from behind. Some will argue that the physical element has been neutered to a degree but I think both games are better as a result.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, downendcity said:

Bristol Bears and England prop Kyle Sinckler will miss the start of the Six Nations after being banned for two weeks for swearing at a referee.

He will miss England's opener against Scotland on 6 February, but will be back to face Italy a week later.

Sinckler, 27, contested the charge of failing to respect the authority of a match official at a hearing on Tuesday.

However, it was ruled he did direct his "aggressive" language towards Karl Dickson in Bristol's win at Exeter.

His actions early in the second half of Saturday's Premiership fixture at Sandy Park were also deemed to have warranted a red card.

 

When was a footballer last yellow carded, let alone red carded, for something similar?

Perhaps it was the gradual erosion of respect for match officials, arguing the toss over almost  every contentious decision on the pitch, usually followed by the manager then pulling the match official to shreds, that caused the authorities to decide that technology was the only answer.

Now, of course, players and managers, pull apart VAR decisions that go against their teams, while match officials have seemingly become impotent, and almost seem to rely on technology making decisions, so they can sidestep any criticism.

The relationship between players and referees in rugby has long seemed very different from that which exists in football with far better levels of communication, that in turn seems to create greater mutual respect. 

It will be interesting tho see if that changes, as more money comes into top level rugby, as has been the case with football.

 

Pogba against us?

Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that I think is really having a big, if unspoken, influence is that TV coverage is making officials of both codes wary - particularly when it's a crucial moment and is replayed interminably from a dozen camera angles. Referees are no longer so quick to make a bold decision and possibly be shown up. It's becoming a game of caution and reticence.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, downendcity said:

I think I'm right in saying that Nigel Owens has retired/is about to. 

This guy is at the top of refereeing and the FA could do worse than sign him up to advise on how footballs officials can operate better, build respect with and from players and, crucially, how best to use and apply technology. 

In all these areas NO would appear to have more knowledge, experience ability and success than anyone involved with football! 

Nigel is awesome:

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Erithacus said:

One thing that I think is really having a big, if unspoken, influence is that TV coverage is making officials of both codes wary - particularly when it's a crucial moment and is replayed interminably from a dozen camera angles. Referees are no longer so quick to make a bold decision and possibly be shown up. It's becoming a game of caution and reticence.

TMO is widely held to be far more respectable as a scoring judge than VAR yet serve the same purpose with almost the same methods. It's not the system, it's the people.

  • Hmmm 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Holier than thou rugby giving it the big 1 as ever.....good friends with a pro rugby referee.....deliberate cheating and unsportsortsman like behaviour is rife. From in the ruck to deliberately giving away offsides etc etc.

And don't forget bloodgate and Dean Richards.....shocking.

A sport played by toffs got no time for it at all.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Refs at our level won’t get any respect as long as the likes of Linington and Stroud get to officiate, surprised they know which boot is left or right. 
Not a lover of egg chasing, but the officials do command a great deal of respect, poor officials tend to disappear unlike our repeat offenders!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Lrrr said:

How I'd love sin bins or moving the ball forward 10 yards for things like cynical yellow cards for stopping counter attacks, there is no real punishment to the defending team other than the yellow card which is a case of 'so what' 95% of the time.

The 10-yard rule lasted for just one season in 2003/04 and I think it was used to punish dissent, as in Rugby Union. FIFA scrapped it the following year, stating that the non-rugby playing nations didn't understand it. 

 

 

Edited by Curr Avon
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rugby is essentially an easier game to ref, the action is slower and all happens in one place at a time, where football could learn a thing or 2 is the respect towards refs on the pitch - it amazes me that it’s not been stamped out yet as it would probably the easiest thing to work on. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...