NcnsBcfc Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Some very mixed messages coming out from the club at the moment, in regard to new contracts. We've gone from new contracts soon for key players; to MA is in constant dialogue with agents and players. Now we are not negotiating at all until next month, and everything is stopped? Very strange. How can you plan in this transfer window, if you have no idea of the players that you are going to have next season? Very unsettling for the OOC players as well, who can of course sign pre contracts elsewhere at any time. I get that we are on a pandemic, but this change of approach looks anything but professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, ncnsbcfc said: Very strange. How can you plan in this transfer window, if you have no idea of the players that you are going to have next season? Very unsettling for the OOC players as well, who can of course sign pre contracts elsewhere at any time Presumably no one is coming in unless people are leaving (bar maybe a left back now) so doesn’t need to plan for this window. secondly pre contracts can be signed with clubs abroad, are Baker, Pato, Walsh likely to move abroad? I doubt it, only Famara really but Dean said they’re still talking to him/his representative regularly I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 We could be seeing over 6 million pounds worth of transfers fee paid plus wages walk out the club for nothing. That is a huge amount of money for a club like ours to lose . Even worse during this pandemic. I really like to see them both sign new contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 I haven’t bought into the Ashton out brigade as I actually think he’s done a decent job in terms of transfers since he’s been here, however this does really concern me. It’s his job to negotiate contracts and we have way too many sellable assets working down theirs and looking to leave for nothing. I do wonder though if Lansdown has set a post-covid salary cap and it’s just not enough to convince some players to sign. If so, the blame doesn’t just fall on Ashton’s head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 32 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said: Some very mixed messages coming out from the club at the moment, in regard to new contracts. We've gone from new contracts soon for key players; to MA is in constant dialogue with agents and players. Now we are not negotiating at all until next month, and everything is stopped? Very strange. How can you plan in this transfer window, if you have no idea of the players that you are going to have next season? Very unsettling for the OOC players as well, who can of course sign pre contracts elsewhere at any time. I get that we are on a pandemic, but this change of approach looks anything but professional. In Jack Hunt’s case he said he was “cool” with it, said his agent and club will sit down whenever is appropriate and go from there. So he doesn’t seem unsettled. Some, as you say, might be seeing it as an opportunity. 1 minute ago, Bobbie said: I haven’t bought into the Ashton out brigade as I actually think he’s done a decent job in terms of transfers since he’s been here, however this does really concern me. It’s his job to negotiate contracts and we have way too many sellable assets working down theirs and looking to leave for nothing. I do wonder though if Lansdown has set a post-covid salary cap and it’s just not enough to convince some players to sign. If so, the blame doesn’t just fall on Ashton’s head. Is that transfers in, out or both. I think it’s been mixed at best. The big question is how much does it cost to replace them. There’s certainly not the players at the club to replace from within. I do think we need to go back to pillaging the less financially sound clubs, offer their good, young players a bit better deal than they’re on, and also tempt their club with a much needed fee. Albeit I think the free transfer market will be plentiful in the summer. Just need to ensure you don’t end up bringing in players past their peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Thing is any renewal has to be factored against their potential value, how much to people think Nathan Baker would be sold for if he was on a 2/3 year contract atm? 29 turning 30 this year, probably wouldn't be a regular in this side and with post-covid figures for transfers £500,000 - £1m if we were lucky? Say he's on 20k a week (its probably a bit less), but to make more from the transfer than paying out wages he'd probably have to be sold in January next season, that's the issue we're facing, do you renew a player who may not be in your starting XI and end up paying them on a high wage rather than just let the contract expire in the hope someone wants them enough still to pay a fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 16, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 57 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said: Now we are not negotiating at all until next month, and everything is stopped? Is this fact? Apologies, I've not seen where it was mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, Lrrr said: Thing is any renewal has to be factored against their potential value, how much to people think Nathan Baker would be sold for if he was on a 2/3 year contract atm? 29 turning 30 this year, probably wouldn't be a regular in this side and with post-covid figures for transfers £500,000 - £1m if we were lucky? Say he's on 20k a week (its probably a bit less), but to make more from the transfer than paying out wages he'd probably have to be sold in January next season, that's the issue we're facing, do you renew a player who may not be in your starting XI and end up paying them on a high wage rather than just let the contract expire in the hope someone wants them enough still to pay a fee. I’d argue (cause I’m like that ) that I’d be looking at how much might it cost to bring in the player we’ve identified as his replacement. We’ve sunk 7/8th’s of his £3.5m transfer fee at this point....in essence his future costs are wages only. I don’t reckon Baker gets a bigger wage in a contract renewal, so maybe drops to £15k per week for 2 more years. That’s a cost of £1.5m over those 2 years. If we wanted a left sided CB who’s better than Baker, how much does that cost us? If that’s an existing Champ CB like Ben Davies (25) at Preston, available on a free, I’d happily pay him £15-20k and a nice little signing on fee. If its existing Champ CB (albeit on loan from Brighton) like Matt Clarke (24), then you’re probably talking £3m and similar wages to Davies. I’d question whether he’s better than Baker. Better on the ball, but better defender? If it’s a young up and coming Lg1 or lower end Champ player like Michael Rose (25) at Coventry, you might get him for £1.5-£2.0m, but wages say £10-12k. Basically a lot of number crunching, but then the question of whether they improve you over Baker is called into question. Imho Ben Davies should be our no1 target. I don’t think we would get him over other clubs, but I’m not the one trying to convince him. But I’d be happy, fitness aside, that Baker is extended. 5 minutes ago, phantom said: Is this fact? Apologies, I've not seen where it was mentioned Yes, Holden said waiting til Window over and even then some might wait until later in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, phantom said: Is this fact? Apologies, I've not seen where it was mentioned Holden mentioned it, wonder if there's anything to do with not wanting agents to use contract renegotiations and potential transfers as a way to drive up the wages of a potential new deal here, if we leave it to next month we can't be boxed in like that, only way is a pre-contract abroad and Famara is likely the only one to move abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I’d argue (cause I’m like that ) that I’d be looking at how much might it cost to bring in the player we’ve identified as his replacement. We’ve sunk 7/8th’s of his £3.5m transfer fee at this point....in essence his future costs are wages only. I don’t reckon Baker gets a bigger wage in a contract renewal, so maybe drops to £15k per week for 2 more years. That’s a cost of £1.5m over those 2 years. If we wanted a left sided CB who’s better than Baker, how much does that cost us? If that’s an existing Champ CB like Ben Davies (25) at Preston, available on a free, I’d happily pay him £15-20k and a nice little signing on fee. If its existing Champ CB (albeit on loan from Brighton) like Matt Clarke (24), then you’re probably talking £3m and similar wages to Davies. I’d question whether he’s better than Baker. Better on the ball, but better defender? If it’s a young up and coming Lg1 or lower end Champ player like Michael Rose (25) at Coventry, you might get him for £1.5-£2.0m, but wages say £10-12k. Basically a lot of number crunching, but then the question of whether they improve you over Baker is called into question. Imho Ben Davies should be our no1 target. I don’t think we would get him over other clubs, but I’m not the one trying to convince him. But I’d be happy, fitness aside, that Baker is extended. Yes, Holden said waiting til Window over and even then some might wait until later in the season. I don't think Baker has the quality on the ball we seemingly want with CB's able to play out, from memory he's shown it in only 1 game (Forest away in restart) otherwise he's usually a player who will play it to other CB or keeper otherwise will play a 30 yard ball forward often giving away possession. Often breaks down our ability to play out, so even on 15k a week I'd probably think to look elsewhere to bring someone who can play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said: We could be seeing over 6 million pounds worth of transfers fee paid plus wages walk out the club for nothing. That is a huge amount of money for a club like ours to lose . Even worse during this pandemic. I really like to see them both sign new contracts. They've been offered contracts and not signed them yet. Not sure what else people expect the club to do..? Especially at the moment, no wonder the club are postponing any further talks, having had little/no income for what will be over a whole year now. Crazy to think that season tickets are due on sale for next season soon, which obviously aren't going to be snapped up, until things are earer and the club (most clubs) reply on this normally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 50 minutes ago, Davefevs said: In Jack Hunt’s case he said he was “cool” with it, said his agent and club will sit down whenever is appropriate and go from there. So he doesn’t seem unsettled. Some, as you say, might be seeing it as an opportunity. Is that transfers in, out or both. I think it’s been mixed at best. The big question is how much does it cost to replace them. There’s certainly not the players at the club to replace from within. I do think we need to go back to pillaging the less financially sound clubs, offer their good, young players a bit better deal than they’re on, and also tempt their club with a much needed fee. Albeit I think the free transfer market will be plentiful in the summer. Just need to ensure you don’t end up bringing in players past their peak. I mean in terms of fees received and paid. He’s not a scout and I hope he doesn’t get final say on who we sell or buy. I could be wrong but his main role in my eyes is to negotiate the best deals for the club which I think he’s done pretty well with; eg. Sales of Webster, Kelly, Kodjia, Reid, Flint, Tomlin, Szmodics, Eisa, all sold for arguably more than they’re worth now (maybe not with Webster and Reid but good deals at the time). I agree incoming deals have at times been questionable but I would argue he did well with Kalas, Diediou, Dasilva, Bentley, Nagy, O’Dowda (some may laugh but at that one but his value has definitely gone up IMO). some flops along the way for sure but I don’t think you can class Massengo, Palmer in that category yet as they are both young and their values can still increase. Wells has underperformed but he was, on paper at least, the prolific championship striker we were crying out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 We shouldn't be offering contracts to any of them....its time to thank them for their service and bring in a new hungry group of players. Hunt,Baker,Diedhiou,Pato thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: They've been offered contracts and not signed them yet. Not sure what else people expect the club to do..? Especially at the moment, no wonder the club are postponing any further talks, having had little/no income for what will be over a whole year now. Crazy to think that season tickets are due on sale for next season soon, which obviously aren't going to be snapped up, until things are earer and the club (most clubs) reply on this normally. I was more highlighting the value we will be losing out on . Not a criticism of the club. If a player doesn’t want to sign then obviously we can’t do nothing about it . Just a shame a 5 million pound signing will go for nothing. Plus to replace him could be another few million. Huge amount of money with no return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said: I was more highlighting the value we will be losing out on . Not a criticism of the club. If a player doesn’t want to sign then obviously we can’t do nothing about it . Just a shame a 5 million pound signing will go for nothing. Plus to replace him could be another few million. Huge amount of money with no return Arguably his 'return' has been the 45 goals he's scored for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lrrr said: Arguably his 'return' has been the 45 goals he's scored for us No return financially Lrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sheene Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said: We could be seeing over 6 million pounds worth of transfers fee paid plus wages walk out the club for nothing. That is a huge amount of money for a club like ours to lose . Even worse during this pandemic. I really like to see them both sign new contracts. At least we had some value from that 6 million pounds we spent on Famara in the fact he has weighed in with some goals and done his job defending at corners. The problem we have with money wasted is players like Engvall, Marley Watkins etc who were expensive in transfer fees and wages and have given little return on that outlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, Bobbie said: Wells has underperformed but he was, on paper at least, the prolific championship striker we were crying out for. Fammy is also prolific then - the 2 players have very similar goalscoring records at Championship level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbie Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said: Fammy is also prolific then - the 2 players have very similar goalscoring records at Championship level. Which is why I grouped him with the successful transfers in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Lrrr said: I don't think Baker has the quality on the ball we seemingly want with CB's able to play out, from memory he's shown it in only 1 game (Forest away in restart) otherwise he's usually a player who will play it to other CB or keeper otherwise will play a 30 yard ball forward often giving away possession. Often breaks down our ability to play out, so even on 15k a week I'd probably think to look elsewhere to bring someone who can play out. Totally get his limitations on the ball, but think too little emphasis placed on whether defenders can actually defend! At the moment I’ve no idea what our playing style is! 31 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: They've been offered contracts and not signed them yet. Not sure what else people expect the club to do..? Especially at the moment, no wonder the club are postponing any further talks, having had little/no income for what will be over a whole year now. Crazy to think that season tickets are due on sale for next season soon, which obviously aren't going to be snapped up, until things are earer and the club (most clubs) reply on this normally. Do you think with Covid they will do their usual thing of putting season tickets on sale? I totally get cash flow, but you wonder how many would’ve bought last March knowing what they know now. That will impact decision making. 27 minutes ago, Bobbie said: I mean in terms of fees received and paid. He’s not a scout and I hope he doesn’t get final say on who we sell or buy. I could be wrong but his main role in my eyes is to negotiate the best deals for the club which I think he’s done pretty well with; eg. Sales of Webster, Kelly, Kodjia, Reid, Flint, Tomlin, Szmodics, Eisa, all sold for arguably more than they’re worth now (maybe not with Webster and Reid but good deals at the time). is that because he sold at the market peak and now it’s bombed? He’s done well with outgoings in the main. I agree incoming deals have at times been questionable but I would argue he did well with Kalas, Diediou, Dasilva, Bentley, Nagy, O’Dowda (some may laugh but at that one but his value has definitely gone up IMO). I should effin well hope so. Signed as a 21 year old for £1.2m, you’d expect him to sell for more. I’d question how much more in today’s market though, and for the wages we’ve outlaid in 4.5 years. Diedhiou at £5.3m and potentially leaving for zilch, looks about as bad a deal as you can get (financially). some flops along the way for sure but I don’t think you can class Massengo, Palmer in that category yet as they are both young and their values can still increase. Wells has underperformed but he was, on paper at least, the prolific championship striker we were crying out for. As I said - mixed. I expect better than mixed from a supposedly top professional recruitment team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said: No return financially Lrrr Depends how you view transfers, essentially we valued having him here for 4 years at £5.3m rather than a guarantee of being here for longer or being sold on that would come as extra to either offset the value of the transfer or spread the value over a longer period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Would you sign a new contract with Holden in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 75 Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Lrrr said: Depends how you view transfers, essentially we valued having him here for 4 years at £5.3m rather than a guarantee of being here for longer or being sold on that would come as extra to either offset the value of the transfer or spread the value over a longer period. My view Lrrr when a club like ours lay out 5.2 million pounds on a player it’s essential we sell him on for money. For whatever reason he isn’t signing a new contract. Financially for the club that is bad . We have to replace him which will cost another few million in the current market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said: My view Lrrr when a club like ours lay out 5.2 million pounds on a player it’s essential we sell him on for money. For whatever reason he isn’t signing a new contract. Financially for the club that is bad . We have to replace him which will cost another few million in the current market. Couldn’t agree more. The intention when he signed was to either fire us to the PL, or he would use us as a stepping stone, I.e. we’d sell him for a large sum. That was said at his signing interviews. The expectation was most definitely not to let him walk after 4 years for zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: If we wanted a left sided CB who’s better than Baker, how much does that cost us? One who is not constantly injured, you can have the best player in the league, but if he is not playing then not much use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Imo I think everyone bar Paterson will go. Walsh maybe 50/50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said: One who is not constantly injured, you can have the best player in the league, but if he is not playing then not much use. Not getting into Baker’s first half issues debate again (), but will be interesting to see how much he plays when he’s back fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, Davefevs said: Not getting into Baker’s first half issues debate again (), but will be interesting to see how much he plays when he’s back fit. Well he's already had Christmas off, so maybe ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrascal2 Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, ncnsbcfc said: Some very mixed messages coming out from the club at the moment, in regard to new contracts. We've gone from new contracts soon for key players; to MA is in constant dialogue with agents and players. Now we are not negotiating at all until next month, and everything is stopped? Very strange. How can you plan in this transfer window, if you have no idea of the players that you are going to have next season? Very unsettling for the OOC players as well, who can of course sign pre contracts elsewhere at any time. I get that we are on a pandemic, but this change of approach looks anything but professional. The chaos at our club is getting worse by the day. The worry is where and when will it end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Redrascal2 said: The chaos at our club is getting worse by the day. The worry is where and when will it end. Hopefully with Ashton leaving Ashton Gate....then 5 months of critical evaluation of where the other issues are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.