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Player ratings today V Preston.


Rich

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13 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Can’t wait to get to see the new additions

 

‘Adlekun’ ,‘ Seymenyo,’ , ‘Sessenyon‘ & ‘ Wiemnan’

 

Anyone know much about them ?
 

Should bolster the squad numbers if nothing else

 

Dunno, but the new striker Die-Eddy-Doo I've heard about sounds pretty handy.   Good old Eddy!

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16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We are rating his performance yesterday....not whether he’s better than players currently out of the team.

It doesn’t matter what Gregor gave him in the post.  I’ve given you some examples of what I saw yesterday...did you not witness that?

You’ve made your mind up in 152 minutes in a City shirt this season, coming into a low on confidence team, that’s now won both games he’s played in?  Or the 166 minutes two seasons ago?  For a guy that has never played at this level before?  

In your list, not sure why you’ve included Williams, Walsh, Sessegnon (not heard of Sessenyon) and Dasilva (not heard of D’Silva), who play in different position.  Unless you’re of course judging him as a Striker, Central Midfielder, Right Back and Left Back in a game....that’s a bit harsh isn’t it?

FWIW, I agree that there are players who are probably better than him, but when was the last time Walsh played well for Bristol City for example?  How many years has it taken Callum O’Dowda to put in a few half-tidy performances?  I’d rather wait to see if he can grow into this level.  He hasn’t got long to do that admittedly, but I don’t get the need to define a players future so quickly, especially one getting his first real chance.  Players like Nagy, Massengo, O’Dowda, Rowe, Hunt, Weimann, Palmer, Diedhiou, Wells, Martin, Bentley, Vyner, Moore, etc have all been stated as not good enough on here and written off at points in their career at City...some as recent as this season!

 

I included everyone of them as they could play either left or right arguably of a middle three.  Everyone of them are better than him.

I think you agree they all are better?

Back to his performance yesterday - did nothing worth of note. Hence my 5 if every one else gets a 8 or 9 then based on the bar being to high I give him a 6.

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10 minutes ago, Better Red said:

It is a game of opinions I agree. It’s just some are clearly wrong Fact...

And this iS one of them.

It’s good that you are on here to put everyone right with their conjecture and opinions

Always good to deal in Facts

 

FWIW having watched Adelakun for U23s , Hull and our first team , I’m not sold on Adelakun 

He may well step up some but IMHO he has quite a step 

But that’s just a personal opinion , not any sort of fact

 

You are making yourself look a bit of a Gonk with your Fact claims

(It appears with due respect you don’t understand the meaning of the word Fact - Opinions are fine but I suggest reigning in your delivery )

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I certainly don’t think we were as good as some do.  For most of the second half it was very poor.  We couldn’t get in the half of a poor Preston side for a fair bit of the second half

Bentley 6

Hunt 7

Rowe 7

Kalas 7

Mawson 8

Vyner 8

Nagy 6

Palmer 6

Hakeeb 6

Martin 6

Diedhiou 7

Nobody had a bad game. A lot just did a decent job.  Certainly not getting excited about any change in form after that game 

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5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I certainly don’t think we were as good as some do.  For most of the second half it was very poor.  We couldn’t get in the half of a poor Preston side for a fair bit of the second half

Bentley 6

Hunt 7

Rowe 7

Kalas 7

Mawson 8

Vyner 8

Nagy 6

Palmer 6

Hakeeb 6

Martin 6

Diedhiou 7

Nobody had a bad game. A lot just did a decent job.  Certainly not getting excited about any change in form after that game 

It was an improvement though. First twenty and last twenty after Massengo came on we were impressive, it was the horrible bit in the middle we’ve got to cut out, particularly that 25 minutes in the second half when we were hanging on for dear life, albeit we did defend well.

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3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It was an improvement though. First twenty and last twenty after Massengo came on we were impressive, it was the horrible bit in the middle we’ve got to cut out, particularly that 25 minutes in the second half when we were hanging on for dear life, albeit we did defend well.

Definite improvement yes but think some going a bit over the top.  Can only beat what is in front of you but thought Preston were poor and not because we made them look so. 

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2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Definite improvement yes but think some going a bit over the top.  Can only beat what is in front of you but thought Preston were poor and not because we made them look so. 

Preston were toothless up front. The improvement in our play yesterday was that when we were on top we created chances. However, if we give Norwich 25 minutes to attack us at will like we gave Preston yesterday in that second half they will create clear chances and we will concede at least once if not twice. It’s an area we have to improve.

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21 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I certainly don’t think we were as good as some do.  For most of the second half it was very poor.  We couldn’t get in the half of a poor Preston side for a fair bit of the second half

Bentley 6

Hunt 7

Rowe 7

Kalas 7

Mawson 8

Vyner 8

Nagy 6

Palmer 6

Hakeeb 6

Martin 6

Diedhiou 7

Nobody had a bad game. A lot just did a decent job.  Certainly not getting excited about any change in form after that game 

⬇️⬇️⬇️

8 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Definite improvement yes but think some going a bit over the top.  Can only beat what is in front of you but thought Preston were poor and not because we made them look so. 

We are allowed to get a bit OTT, it’s the first semi-coherent performance in weeks and weeks, and it’s not every day, or even decade, we beat Preston. ???

I don’t think your ratings are a million miles off either.  You have picked out the top performers that everyone else has in the main too.

Would be boring if we all gave the same wouldn’t it?

I’m usually pretty harsh, don’t do half-marks, but usually it’s 5s, 6s, and 7s from me.  Takes a lot to get an 8 or 9, similarly a 4 too.  Yesterday I might’ve been a tad generous....but despite being under pressure second half, we weathered it, finished strong and the last 15-20 with the injection of subs played pretty well imho.

I also don’t think Preston were poor, we just stopped them doing the things they are good at.  We often give the opposition credit for stifling us...think it’s only fair we give ourselves credit when we make the opposition seem poor.  We saw in that second half spell, they are far from a poor side.  We did some really good things yesterday, like playing a higher line to thwart them building off Maguire.  Too often in the past they’ve imposed their game on us.  Yesterday it was us imposing ourselves on them.

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1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

It’s good that you are on here to put everyone right with their conjecture and opinions

Always good to deal in Facts

 

FWIW having watched Adelakun for U23s , Hull and our first team , I’m not sold on Adelakun 

He may well step up some but IMHO he has quite a step 

But that’s just a personal opinion , not any sort of fact

 

You are making yourself look a bit of a Gonk with your Fact claims

(It appears with due respect you don’t understand the meaning of the word Fact - Opinions are fine but I suggest reigning in your delivery )

If we all agree that Adelakun is not really good enough then I am not sure why it’s taken for me to use the word ‘fact’to bring that out.

Lets all say if we see a player that is not good enough to progress the club.

All I am asking for is a bit of reality when we view players.

A few are great, a few are good, a lot are average and some are not good enough. 

We all see the game pretty much the same I believe. I am prepared to call out a player who is not good enough I just would others to do so. 
 

I think that Adelakun falls into the not good enough category and I honestly believe most people on here do as well but not really sure why they just can’t say.

Opinions - I wish more people would one have them and also be honest. 
 

I said Semenyo won’t score goals and I got slaughtered. But that is what I saw so I said it. 20 games later and no goals.

I want are younger players to make as much as the rest but when they ain’t good enough I will say it. 
 

I might’ve be proved wrong but often I won’t because I am saying what i see ‘not ‘ what I won’t to see.

I am saying Adelakun is not good enough on what I have seen. I watch the same games as everyone else and call it as I see it. Not potential as I see it. A lot is made about age 18 yes is still young but 21 plus is no longer young and players should be judged on performances.

 

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7 minutes ago, Better Red said:

If we all agree that Adelakun is not really good enough then I am not sure why it’s taken for me to use the word ‘fact’to bring that out.

Lets all say if we see a player that is not good enough to progress the club.

All I am asking for is a bit of reality when we view players.

A few are great, a few are good, a lot are average and some are not good enough. 

We all see the game pretty much the same I believe. I am prepared to call out a player who is not good enough I just would others to do so. 
 

I think that Adelakun falls into the not good enough category and I honestly believe most people on here do as well but not really sure why they just can’t say.

Opinions - I wish more people would one have them and also be honest. 
 

I said Semenyo won’t score goals and I got slaughtered. But that is what I saw so I said it. 20 games later and no goals.

I want are younger players to make as much as the rest but when they ain’t good enough I will say it. 
 

I might’ve be proved wrong but often I won’t because I am saying what i see ‘not ‘ what I won’t to see.

I am saying Adelakun is not good enough on what I have seen. I watch the same games as everyone else and call it as I see it. Not potential as I see it. A lot is made about age 18 yes is still young but 21 plus is no longer young and players should be judged on performances.

 

But it’s not a fact , (That he’s not good enough) whether that be mine , yours or Dean Holdens opinion 

Also its not correct that everyone thinks he is ‘not good enough ‘ , and many , understandably , would want to see more of him before forming an opinion 

As for Semenyo , he might not be finding goals at the moment , but considering where he came from and timescale it would IMHO ludicrous to mark him as ‘not good enough’ based on any goals return - There’s much more to his game than that and he has an X factor that we rarely have or have had in our sides over the decades

 

As for some players like Taylor Moore , Adelakun , who are , or approaching mid 20s and have been here a while , there comes a time when somebody has to make brave decisions , but that won’t be me or you, though we can all offer opinions

Personally I’d suggest you stop using the word Fact and keep it to personal opinion , Using the term fact or putting opinions in Capitals undermines rather than authenticates any opinion

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45 minutes ago, Better Red said:

If we all agree that Adelakun is not really good enough then I am not sure why it’s taken for me to use the word ‘fact’to bring that out.

Lets all say if we see a player that is not good enough to progress the club.

All I am asking for is a bit of reality when we view players.

A few are great, a few are good, a lot are average and some are not good enough. 

We all see the game pretty much the same I believe. I am prepared to call out a player who is not good enough I just would others to do so. 
 

I think that Adelakun falls into the not good enough category and I honestly believe most people on here do as well but not really sure why they just can’t say.

Opinions - I wish more people would one have them and also be honest. 
 

I said Semenyo won’t score goals and I got slaughtered. But that is what I saw so I said it. 20 games later and no goals.

I want are younger players to make as much as the rest but when they ain’t good enough I will say it. 
 

I might’ve be proved wrong but often I won’t because I am saying what i see ‘not ‘ what I won’t to see.

I am saying Adelakun is not good enough on what I have seen. I watch the same games as everyone else and call it as I see it. Not potential as I see it. A lot is made about age 18 yes is still young but 21 plus is no longer young and players should be judged on performances.

 

Whatever your thoughts or opinions or wants, if you say FACT when giving your opinion, you will come across as a bit of a knob.  In my opinion and in the opinion of many others. 

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19 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

As for Semenyo , he might not be finding goals at the moment , but considering where he came from and timescale it would IMHO ludicrous to mark him as ‘not good enough’ based on any goals return - There’s much more to his game than that and he has an X factor that we rarely have or have had in our sides over the decades

 

Exactly.

With 7 assists so far (league and cup) and 2 cup goals, Semenyo is undoubtedly an important member of the squad. He just needs to be a bit more composed in front of goal and hopefully he will score more. With some it is a slow process and it appears that is the case with him and DH has been very patient with him and I've questioned how long that patience should last in the past, but given his assists and his general play he's in the team on merit.

I can see that he is desperate to score in the league and, as many others have said, once he does there will probably be no stopping him.

 

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2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Exactly.

With 7 assists so far (league and cup) and 2 cup goals, Semenyo is undoubtedly an important member of the squad. He just needs to be a bit more composed in front of goal and hopefully he will score more. With some it is a slow process and it appears that is the case with him and DH has been very patient with him and I've questioned how long that patience should last in the past, but given his assists and his general play he's in the team on merit.

I can see that he is desperate to score in the league and, as many others have said, once he does there will probably be no stopping him.

 

Also one of the few assets in terms of monetary value we have

Id take a bet that alongside Bentley he would be one other clubs are eyeing , albeit , based still a fair chunk on real potential.

I wasn’t sure Zak Vyner would ever come through here but , ironically he’s probably another one other Clubs will look at

As for AS Im not sure he will ever be prolific goals wise , (Not sure he has that instinct for quantity but Think he will get some crackers tho) but his all round game is developing nicely 

In professional football terms , access to pro coaching he’s had the same that some 16/17 have had and less than most.

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1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

We all know you don’t rate Adelakun very highly but why mention it in practically every single post? You won’t change the minds of those that are prepared to wait and see before condemning out of hand just because you repeat the same stuff post after post. It’s an unhealthy obsession you are growing there............

 

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Whatever your thoughts or opinions or wants, if you say FACT when giving your opinion, you will come across as a bit of a knob.  In my opinion and in the opinion of many others. 

It’s a game of opinions your are entitled to them as much as i am, fact...

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1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

But it’s not a fact , (That he’s not good enough) whether that be mine , yours or Dean Holdens opinion 

Also its not correct that everyone thinks he is ‘not good enough ‘ , and many , understandably , would want to see more of him before forming an opinion 

As for Semenyo , he might not be finding goals at the moment , but considering where he came from and timescale it would IMHO ludicrous to mark him as ‘not good enough’ based on any goals return - There’s much more to his game than that and he has an X factor that we rarely have or have had in our sides over the decades

 

As for some players like Taylor Moore , Adelakun , who are , or approaching mid 20s and have been here a while , there comes a time when somebody has to make brave decisions , but that won’t be me or you, though we can all offer opinions

Personally I’d suggest you stop using the word Fact and keep it to personal opinion , Using the term fact or putting opinions in Capitals undermines rather than authenticates any opinion

Seymenyo - To be clear I am not saying I don’t think he is and could be a decent player. I said he won’t score goals.  He does have to add goals otherwise he will eventually just become a player who comes on from the bench.

Adelakun - You sort of agree. 
 

What I don’t get is why know one wants to form an ‘opinion’ until it becomes a ‘fact’

Thats the point of an opinion. Stop sitting on the fence and say if you think he is good enough Yes/No

Don’t be afraid to ‘Yes’ if that’s what you think.

I am clear it’s ‘'No'  -  I need more time, he’s only 23, hes does not need more games etc... I am saying No.

I am saying it as I see it. 

So Is he good enough based on your time watching/playing football  - Yes or No?

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32 minutes ago, Better Red said:

Seymenyo - To be clear I am not saying I don’t think he is and could be a decent player. I said he won’t score goals.  He does have to add goals otherwise he will eventually just become a player who comes on from the bench.

Adelakun - You sort of agree. 
 

What I don’t get is why know one wants to form an ‘opinion’ until it becomes a ‘fact’

Thats the point of an opinion. Stop sitting on the fence and say if you think he is good enough Yes/No

Don’t be afraid to ‘Yes’ if that’s what you think.

I am clear it’s ‘'No'  -  I need more time, he’s only 23, hes does not need more games etc... I am saying No.

I am saying it as I see it. 

So Is he good enough based on your time watching/playing football  - Yes or No?

Not sure if you are a wind up merchant or not understanding.  You seem very keen for people to give their opinion which is fine. My opinion is that Hakeeb isn’t good enough for top six. It doesn’t make it a fact though does it. 

Even if the vast majority thought it, it still wouldn’t be a fact.  

The vast majority thought Wells was an amazing signing. Does that make it a fact? Hasn’t worked out that way.  

Vast majority were fine when it looked like Bobby Reid was going to be released and laughed at the thought of him as a striker.  Most thought he wasn’t good enough.  Does that make it a fact?

My advice would be to wind it in a bit but continue to give opinions by all means.  What you need to remember though is players improve at different rates 

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32 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Not sure if you are a wind up merchant or not understanding.  You seem very keen for people to give their opinion which is fine. My opinion is that Hakeeb isn’t good enough for top six. It doesn’t make it a fact though does it. 

Even if the vast majority thought it, it still wouldn’t be a fact.  

The vast majority thought Wells was an amazing signing. Does that make it a fact? Hasn’t worked out that way.  

Vast majority were fine when it looked like Bobby Reid was going to be released and laughed at the thought of him as a striker.  Most thought he wasn’t good enough.  Does that make it a fact?

My advice would be to wind it in a bit but continue to give opinions by all means.  What you need to remember though is players improve at different rates 

Has all the makings of another “Les”....but I think he’s posting under another name at the mo’.  Maybe he’s “Les Miserable”! ?

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Unlike Robbo and a few others who dont like individual ratings, i really do appreciate them if i am out of the country and not able to see the match live. It doesnt really matter what the baseline is, ie La Gazzetta in Italy has always given 5 for 'earns the corn' - not going to be dropped nor particularly praised for a 5 performance.

Before lockdown one could use Ole's rating as a base becuase he also went to every away game and rated the players using his own standard (a fair bit higher than La Gazzetta!) 

I think those who rate regularly should continue to do so even though we have to observe via a monitor which gives no real impression of the tension/spirit/aggro of a live football match at such a competitive level.

If a player made neither a positive nor negative impression i give a 5. If a goalie has a quiet day but doesnt concede, induce panic, nor pass badly to defenders they'll get a 6. I am not saying my ratings system is correct and everyone will see the match differently. What makes it almost impossible to do well from a TV is a defender can be tracking/marking a player really well off the ball but you dont see that. THis is something Rowe does well but if i dont see it, i cant rate him. Likewise if Wells made loads of good runs down the channels (no chance!) butr didnt get the pass, he is still contributing to the game and team effort but again you may not see that unless you are at the game.

Anyway, for yesterday mine were;

Bentley   6

Hunt       6

Mawson 8

Kalas      8.5

Rowe      7

Vyner     7.5

Nagy     6.5

Palmer    6 (but really good for first 25 mins)

Adelakan    6

Martin    7

Diedhiou   7.5

 

Subs

Massengo   7

Wells     4

Bako     5

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Delighted with that performance yesterday.  Ok, so it wasn’t top of the league form, and we did a bit of reverting to type in the first part of the second half, but it was so much better than what we’ve seen recently and we were actually better than the other side and not just lucky to get the win.  
 

The performance was built I think on the back of three key partnerships through the spine of the team - Mawson. Kalas; Nagy, Vyner; Martin, Diedhiou and I’d give them all 8.  Good to see KP back, he was an 8 for 25 mins but faded badly.  The rest for me were 6 - Jack Hunt didn’t have his best game, Bents distribution was off, Adelakun was decent but unspectacular, Tommy was solid but didn’t offer much going forward.   
 

Need to up our game a bit for Norwich and actually play for 90 mins but a step in the right direction for sure. 

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After a very encouraging performance against Preston I am hoping its the start of seeing the team as a whole play a lot better.

Whether anybody feels the need to be critical about this player or that player that is their prerogative, I prefer to see the positives as only by encouragement will we see an improvement on the pitch.

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11 minutes ago, Swede said:

After a very encouraging performance against Preston I am hoping its the start of seeing the team as a whole play a lot better.

Whether anybody feels the need to be critical about this player or that player that is their prerogative, I prefer to see the positives as only by encouragement will we see an improvement on the pitch.

We played like a team yesterday....made a huge difference Swede.

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21 hours ago, Better Red said:

Just read the Evening Post ratings they gave him a six. Lowest in the team. So just not me....
 

I have made my mind up on him because I have watched him play and he is not good enough. 

We have ‘much’ better players that will keep him out of the team.

Seymenyo, Paterson, KP, Sessenyon, Wiemnan, Walsh, Williams, O’Dowda even D’Silva could play further forward. Also think Edwards could be a decent player.

So that’s why I have made my mind up. Put him against others we have and that tells you how good he is. 
 

Which one of the above do you think he is better than?  That’s why he ain’t that good. We are not a top 3 team and he will be nowhere  near in the team in 6 weeks.

Will be gone in the summer to L1 club.
 

That's why it’s a fact not just an opinion. 

Calm down. And it's an opinion, full stop. 

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17 hours ago, Better Red said:

Seymenyo

I am clear it’s ‘'No'  -  I need more time, he’s only 23, hes does not need more games etc... I am saying No.

 

He is just 21 (7th January) and he didn't come through the academy system so had no professional development until he was around 17/18. He is behind a lot of the academy lads in those terms but has learnt very quickly and overtaken a few of them.

He needs to have composure when in a scoring opportunity, but I think that will come - hopefully before DH loses patience. 

When Eliasson was here he scored few goals but was an assist machine with 14 in his last season. We are at the half way point of the season and Semenyo, in a different position and different sort of player, already has 7 in all competitions - more than any other squad member. He's earned his place in the team and I think, if he continues to learn at the pace he has been, he will be a valuable asset by the end of the season.

 

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2 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

He is just 21 (7th January) and he didn't come through the academy system so had no professional development until he was around 17/18. He is behind a lot of the academy lads in those terms but has learnt very quickly and overtaken a few of them.

He needs to have composure when in a scoring opportunity, but I think that will come - hopefully before DH loses patience. 

When Eliasson was here he scored few goals but was an assist machine with 14 in his last season. We are at the half way point of the season and Semenyo, in a different position and different sort of player, already has 7 in all competitions - more than any other squad member. He's earned his place in the team and I think, if he continues to learn at the pace he has been, he will be a valuable asset by the end of the season.

 

Agree, with lots of that.  All power to the lad that he started the season behind Martin, Diedhiou, Wells, but has done more than enough to get picked over them in several games.

Hes got something, he’s raw.  Just keep giving him opportunities from the start and bench, he’s fully ingrained in the 18 (20 now) man match day squad.  That isn’t anything to be sniffed at.

And as you say his productivity, 2 goals 6 assists (7 depending on your source) is decent enough.  His contributions have been good too.

At 21, not one I’d be writing off for lack of goals....especially as many appearances have been as a wide forward.

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On 17/01/2021 at 11:39, Davefevs said:

We are rating his performance yesterday....not whether he’s better than players currently out of the team.

It doesn’t matter what Gregor gave him in the post.  I’ve given you some examples of what I saw yesterday...did you not witness that?

You’ve made your mind up in 152 minutes in a City shirt this season, coming into a low on confidence team, that’s now won both games he’s played in?  Or the 166 minutes two seasons ago?  For a guy that has never played at this level before?  

In your list, not sure why you’ve included Williams, Walsh, Sessegnon (not heard of Sessenyon) and Dasilva (not heard of D’Silva), who play in different position.  Unless you’re of course judging him as a Striker, Central Midfielder, Right Back and Left Back in a game....that’s a bit harsh isn’t it?

FWIW, I agree that there are players who are probably better than him, but when was the last time Walsh played well for Bristol City for example?  How many years has it taken Callum O’Dowda to put in a few half-tidy performances?  I’d rather wait to see if he can grow into this level.  He hasn’t got long to do that admittedly, but I don’t get the need to define a players future so quickly, especially one getting his first real chance.  Players like Nagy, Massengo, O’Dowda, Rowe, Hunt, Weimann, Palmer, Diedhiou, Wells, Martin, Bentley, Vyner, Moore, etc have all been stated as not good enough on here and written off at points in their career at City...some as recent as this season!

 

Totally agree with this post.

It's utterly irrelevant Adelakun is or isn't better than various players who weren't fit or available to play yesterday. What's relevant here is how he played yesterday and whether he's got a role to play in the team at the moment.

And for me, the answer is that he's not a perfect player, and nor does he yet look confident at this level, but our shape looks better with a player who can add some width to our formation and get a cross in and that he contributed to a good team performance yesterday.

I'll worry about whether he's better than other players would be if they were fit and in form once we reach a point where those players are fit and in form. But for now, Adelakun has come in at short notice, done well and deserves to keep starting until someone makes a case ahead of him. 

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