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2 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

I’m deluded 😃

I’m sure you’re right. Who wouldn’t want that? Premier League and all the AMG Mercedes Benz-style trappings?

Thing is though if old Josh thought that there might have been a chance of getting that at BS3 then might he have hung around?

yes, and same happened with others.  Allegedly, despite us flying in December 17/18, Joe Bryan wanted to go then, not the summer.

The model of improving young ‘uns must only work if they’re then kept and encouraged to stay. If they’re sold to develop the model and keep even younger ‘uns coming through then it’ll take an age before anyone sees The Promised Land at BS3.

yep, we need to be better at making the transition seamless.  To some extend Kelly and Dasilva was one we did get right.

Sell off the family silver so that they who shall inherit can enjoy the fruits of their labour. The peasants meanwhile eat with their fingers and are grateful for scraps from the big table.

That’s how it feels a bit at the mo’.  Can’t recall who posted yesterday but something along the lines of “does the current squad justify the cost it took to assemble”, especially when looking back at the squad on 17/18?

Now I reckon old Josh - and the others who have come and gone and those who didn’t even come - saw their dream of those AMGs away from our beloved BS3.

They thought the realisation of their dream was far more likely elsewhere and they go. Or don’t come.

Even Famara’s signing was announced with a sub-text of “use us as a stepping stone”.

Meanwhile Ashton and Messrs Lansdown are squeezing the last bit of Airfix Cement out of the tube. There’s a small hole in the tube that they hadn’t noticed.

haha, that make me laugh 🤣 Used to give me a headache!

**** me boss says the CEO. The ******* stuff has squirted all over my manicured fingers and now they’re stuck together.

Never mind says Steve. Pass I the box. I want to see what the model is looking like. Now where is it? Ah yes here he be. Now it should be a nice shiny AMG 4x4 type thingy.....

******* hell Mark. What the **** have you built? This isn’t what we agreed. It looks **** all like the picture on the box!

Christ Alive son. It’s a ******* Morris Minor Traveller. And that wood that’s supposed to strengthen it all and hold it together? It’s ******* rotten all the way through......

Never mind boss. We’ve got Tyreeq. And Antoine. And that Bell lad. And a host of others. Time to cash in boss..........

Good post Big Al ⬆️⬆️⬆️

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While I'm no fan of Ashton, the set up seems flawed and questions have/are/and will be asked, we have to accept where we are.

Even though we have been quietly moving upward we are no big fish. 
All teams sale players when a bigger or higher or richer club comes calling.
SL wants the club to be self sufficient.
The Academy has only recently started to produce players anywhere near good enough to even cover for the first team.
We have never (2008 apart) made a decent first of a playoff challenge.

I personally feel as though the set up is close, but needs tweaking. Egos seem a bit part and I was hoping with Ashton's EFL role we might get a DoF sort of appointment that made a better conduit between Team+Coach and Board+owner. I think MA has proved worthwhile in deals, but maybe he needs to step away from football decisions.  TBF to SL, when you have pumped as much money into something as he has, it must be hard to give up control, even if it's the right thing. He needs to find another Lieutenant to trust.

I guess there are some players who would be happy picking up good money, being a good player in a certain Division and happy see out their career as a sort of Big fish in a smaller pond. I would think most want to prove they can reach the top, or make the most of their talent. Yes some are £££ lead, but be good and the £££s will follow. So wether we sign players (Webster, Fam) or bring them through ( Reid, Bryan) you want them to be ambitious because it means they will want to win. What it also means is they will leave if we don't look capable of Promotion. It's a balance that we haven't got nearly right yet, but say instead of falling away each year, we had managed to look like a serious contender. I think things would have been different, we may have seen Lansdown "go for it" a bit more. Then again,  Imagine where we would be without the money from Kelly, Bryan, Reid, Webster etc. We are a stepping stone, until we get Promotion, even then find a very good player, we will still be a stepping stone. What we need somehow, is to get all the marbles in place at the right time and be good for a year, that Promotion changes everything, if only for a while.

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14 hours ago, swanker said:

Some on here didn’t really rate him! 

Have to admit I thought he wasn't as good as some were saying. He always looked a bit stiff legged running and lacked a bit of puff. But I make a point of watching Burnley and he now looks the part. He's quick, always on the move and a cut above his previous self. England material? You never know.

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5 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

I’m deluded 😃

I’m sure you’re right. Who wouldn’t want that? Premier League and all the AMG Mercedes Benz-style trappings?

Thing is though if old Josh thought that there might have been a chance of getting that at BS3 then might he have hung around?

The model of improving young ‘uns must only work if they’re then kept and encouraged to stay. If they’re sold to develop the model and keep even younger ‘uns coming through then it’ll take an age before anyone sees The Promised Land at BS3.

Sell off the family silver so that they who shall inherit can enjoy the fruits of their labour. The peasants meanwhile eat with their fingers and are grateful for scraps from the big table.

Now I reckon old Josh - and the others who have come and gone and those who didn’t even come - saw their dream of those AMGs away from our beloved BS3.

They thought the realisation of their dream was far more likely elsewhere and they go. Or don’t come.

Meanwhile Ashton and Messrs Lansdown are squeezing the last bit of Airfix Cement out of the tube. There’s a small hole in the tube that they hadn’t noticed. 

**** me boss says the CEO. The ******* stuff has squirted all over my manicured fingers and now they’re stuck together.

Never mind says Steve. Pass I the box. I want to see what the model is looking like. Now where is it? Ah yes here he be. Now it should be a nice shiny AMG 4x4 type thingy.....

******* hell Mark. What the **** have you built? This isn’t what we agreed. It looks **** all like the picture on the box!

Christ Alive son. It’s a ******* Morris Minor Traveller. And that wood that’s supposed to strengthen it all and hold it together? It’s ******* rotten all the way through......

Never mind boss. We’ve got Tyreeq. And Antoine. And that Bell lad. And a host of others. Time to cash in boss..........

That's got to be the strangest post I've seen on here, and that's saying something.

You mentioned Airfix cement...are you sure you've not been sniffing it!?

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13 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Totally disagree

He himself wasn’t playing well at the time , and certainly isn’t the sort of player able to carry a side

Id say he’s looked far better at Burnley he did for us, and watching him it appears quite clear he’s been asked to fulfill a specific role and is far more disciplined in his positioning and his role, and doing it very well.

Fair play to him , I confess he’s performing far better at that level than I expected , but I keep going back to my point above

Yep, Brownhill was often in poor form in the months before he left and a smattering of goals didn't mask that afaic.

It may have been his mind was elsewhere knowing a move was in the offing, either way his performances were noticeably below his previous standards.

Good for Josh that he's acclimatised so well to PL football - he's take his chance superbly.

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I find it cringeworthy how some on here gush so much about ex players.

They've gone - often chasing the money - so why can't we just let it go.

It's like being chucked by a girlfriend and not being able to accept it and getting your mates to check up on her down the pub.

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1 hour ago, Top Robin said:

I find it cringeworthy how some on here gush so much about ex players.

They've gone - often chasing the money - so why can't we just let it go.

It's like being chucked by a girlfriend and not being able to accept it and getting your mates to check up on her down the pub.

I don’t see anyone gushing. I find it cringeworthy that I knew at least one person would overreact and say exactly this.

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22 hours ago, Prinny said:

Had a year and a half left on his contract. Right time to sell.

Imagine the outrage if he was one of the players with their contracts running out this year.

Wouldn't happen like that 

It's why we will never go up. Cash in at any sign of promise. Bristol City is a business not a football club

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1 hour ago, Top Robin said:

I find it cringeworthy how some on here gush so much about ex players.

They've gone - often chasing the money - so why can't we just let it go.

It's like being chucked by a girlfriend and not being able to accept it and getting your mates to check up on her down the pub.

Is that from experience? 🤓🤓🤓

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2 hours ago, Top Robin said:

I find it cringeworthy how some on here gush so much about ex players.

They've gone - often chasing the money - so why can't we just let it go.

It's like being chucked by a girlfriend and not being able to accept it and getting your mates to check up on her down the pub.

I see it as people are genuinely interested and pleased to see a ex player doing well for themselves, brownhill deserves every penny he earns, top player and a really nice lad .

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6 hours ago, WECANDO said:

Have to admit I thought he wasn't as good as some were saying. He always looked a bit stiff legged running and lacked a bit of puff. But I make a point of watching Burnley and he now looks the part. He's quick, always on the move and a cut above his previous self. England material? You never know.

Read some stuff on the Burnley fans forum and although they rate him they don’t think he’s England material. There’s better players ahead of him. 

Edited by swanker
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I cant see many posts on here about how well Lee Johnson did in bringing Josh to Ashton Gate, developing him from a scrappy player to a fringe team player to a decent one to a player worthy of Captaincy and then Premier League. Always amuses me how many people wanted to criticise LJ and now its blatantly clear he was right again in identifying and coaching players the same people now blame MA for selling the player. I know this forum would be empty if it wasnt for complaints but LJ deserves most of the priase for the Josh windfall

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25 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

I cant see many posts on here about how well Lee Johnson did in bringing Josh to Ashton Gate, developing him from a scrappy player to a fringe team player to a decent one to a player worthy of Captaincy and then Premier League. Always amuses me how many people wanted to criticise LJ and now its blatantly clear he was right again in identifying and coaching players the same people now blame MA for selling the player. I know this forum would be empty if it wasnt for complaints but LJ deserves most of the priase for the Josh windfall

Yes

Lee did ok with that one 

1 ,     2 with Webster .....from 60 odd signings is really impressive

 

Johnson - The era of missed opportunities 

 

 

Edited by Sheltons Army
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17 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

I cant see many posts on here about how well Lee Johnson did in bringing Josh to Ashton Gate, developing him from a scrappy player to a fringe team player to a decent one to a player worthy of Captaincy and then Premier League. Always amuses me how many people wanted to criticise LJ and now its blatantly clear he was right again in identifying and coaching players the same people now blame MA for selling the player. I know this forum would be empty if it wasnt for complaints but LJ deserves most of the priase for the Josh windfall

....and the devil’s advocate response will be how much of that was LJ’s influence, how much of it was down to Brownhill’s natural development curve and his application to improve being the model pro he is?

I suspect the truthful answer is a combination of all of the bits I mentioned, in what ratios, we don’t know.

if you think he deserves most of the praise, then my other devil’s advocate response is compare that to O’Dowda, two players who joined at the same time having had plenty of first team football on arrival, albeit Josh at Lg1 and Callum at Lg2.  Why has one flourished and the other not.  Why wasn’t LJ’ superior coaching skills able to improve Callum to the same level / at the same rate as his mucker Josh?

Taking it to extremes.  What about Diego Di Girolamo, same age, signed in the same summer.  Why didn’t he become the next £7m sale?

 

 

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On 18/01/2021 at 17:45, Eddie Notgetinya said:

For those that may be interested our former captain leads the premier league this season in interceptions with 45 (next is Kante on 39). What I’d give to have him back. 

Any idea whose leading the ‘box entries’ stats 😁

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

....and the devil’s advocate response will be how much of that was LJ’s influence, how much of it was down to Brownhill’s natural development curve and his application to improve being the model pro he is?

I suspect the truthful answer is a combination of all of the bits I mentioned, in what ratios, we don’t know.

if you think he deserves most of the praise, then my other devil’s advocate response is compare that to O’Dowda, two players who joined at the same time having had plenty of first team football on arrival, albeit Josh at Lg1 and Callum at Lg2.  Why has one flourished and the other not.  Why wasn’t LJ’ superior coaching skills able to improve Callum to the same level / at the same rate as his mucker Josh?

Taking it to extremes.  What about Diego Di Girolamo, same age, signed in the same summer.  Why didn’t he become the next £7m sale?

 

 

Yep exactly. Looking at individual players is kind of pointless in my opinion as it's impossible to know how much was down to the coach, and how much was down to the player's natural ability developing.

As you said, it's always going to be a balance between a player's ability and the coaches influence - but a quality coach will increase the hit rate in general (though obviously not turn them all into high quality players). Take a random group of 60 odd players at Championship level and you'd expect a certain % to develop into Premier league players wherever they are - a quality coach or group of coaches will increase that % for their club.

As it's obviously impossible to see how he'd have developed elsewhere (perhaps into a L2 player!) maybe you could look at the % of players from teams 7th - 15th or whatever in the Championship who have gone on to play in the prem over the last 3 - 5 years and compare that to us.

Edited by IAmNick
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Brownhill and Webster are certainly the two standouts.

However IIRC, we also made a book profit on Magnússon, Szmodics- possibly Djuric and Eisa,though not certain on the two strikers. Did we make an out and out profit on the first two?

Any book profits allied with subsequent wage and amortisation savings help certainly. Sure there was someone else too but can't quite recall?

Might be Eliasson, how much did he go for in the end. Might have gone for more too if not for Covid- 2nd top assist maker in the League, within a decent age range and a left footer.

I think in terms of present value, or value that can be gained we have a few who might grow in value as time and promise on their side- the two obvious in Bentley and maybe though he's older and was more established, Kalas aside- LJ signings only.

The amount will vary, but candidates include:

Moore

DaSilva

Bakinson

Walsh

Semenyo

Nagy could be classed a maybe, if he continues to improve as he isn't too old and I don't think he was a huge fee?

However our model seems to have become mixed, we have in recent times been signing a variety for the here and now- both under LJ and Holden.

Still think it's a mixed bag personally. Out and out failures with the aim of profit or enhancement of value from a young enough age in this respect include Adelakun, arguably Palmer at this time, don't think he was too cheap- and of course Engvall.

Don't think all is lost but this summer could make or break, set the path for the next few years tbh.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Brownhill and Webster are certainly the two standouts.

However IIRC, we also made a book profit on Magnússon, Szmodics- possibly Djuric and Eisa,though not certain on the two strikers. Did we make an out and out profit on the first two?

Any book profits allied with subsequent wage and amortisation savings help certainly. Sure there was someone else too but can't quite recall?

Might be Eliasson, how much did he go for in the end. Might have gone for more too if not for Covid- 2nd top assist maker in the League, within a decent age range and a left footer.

I think in terms of present value, or value that can be gained we have a few who might grow in value as time and promise on their side- the two obvious in Bentley and maybe though he's older and was more established, Kalas aside- LJ signings only.

The amount will vary, but candidates include:

Moore

DaSilva

Bakinson

Walsh

Semenyo

Nagy could be classed a maybe, if he continues to improve as he isn't too old and I don't think he was a huge fee?

However our model seems to have become mixed, we have in recent times been signing a variety for the here and now- both under LJ and Holden.

Still think it's a mixed bag personally. Out and out failures with the aim of profit or enhancement of value from a young enough age in this respect include Adelakun, arguably Palmer at this time, don't think he was too cheap- and of course Engvall.

Don't think all is lost but this summer could make or break, set the path for the next few years tbh.

In an inflationary market (buying predominantly young, developing players), which is what we had until the summer, you’d be hard-pushed to not make money in terms “accounting transfer profit” (transfer fee received minus current book value).  The accounting method is skewed toward reporting profits even when there’s not been a traditional net profit (transfer fee received minus fee paid).

For info Eisa was even a small net profit but bigger accounting profit because his book value was lower having been with us a year.  Djuric was a net loss but just about broke even accounting-wise.  Engvall similar to Djuric.

If we sold Kalas in this window, anything less than £5m would be an accounting loss.  Not suggesting we are btw!!!

Lets see those accounts 😜

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