ThreeWordCityNerd Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 God bless SL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturny Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Be interesting to see us compared side by side with other champ teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Scary reading. The fact is the plan is currently not working. Why is that? Is it just a natural dip in player development/players reaching sale potential? Did the previous manager do a bad job developing players? Are the people in charge of transfers and talent ID not doing their job and wasting money? Eitherway the importance of player sales is massive and clearly that puts HUGE pressure on MA and his team in talent ID - so big questions need to be asked there and I think the track record is not looking great. These accounts show exactly why we appointed who we did, coaching wise, this summer. A manager to tow the line and two assistants used to working with youngsters that can coach the Vyners, Moores and Semenyos into saleable assets. Despite all the smoke and mirrors, city were never going to appoint a top manager this season, we simple couldn’t afford one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 If our actual plan was to get a manager who would be ok with playing young talent, hire coaches who were geared towards developing young talent, and sign experienced players who almost sound like managers who can help progress that talent (Rowe/Brunt/Martin) ahead of the expected losses and change in football dynamics thanks to Covid, then we're pretty smart if we made good choices. Did we do that? Will we try to sell that we did that after the fact? Given the messages about being taken to the next level etc around the hiring, I don't think we did, still it could all work out. If we can't afford to make transfers, our transfer team can't mess them up! Cunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: I'm no expert on the numbers and others on here have explained what it all mean in detail ... ... but what I'm getting from this is that unless we have a net transfer profit at least 20M per season we are operating at a loss. If this is true I'm concerned because the only teams spending that kind of money on transfers are in the premier league and I cannot see anyone in our current squad as premier league quality. Where are we going to make 20M? Based on these numbers we actually need to make a “transfer profit” of £35m to break even. This year we made £25m, but still lost £9m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeWordCityNerd Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, Sturny said: Be interesting to see us compared side by side with other champ far far inferior teams. even before Covid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, Prinny said: If our actual plan was to get a manager who would be ok with playing young talent, hire coaches who were geared towards developing young talent, and sign veterans who can help progress that talent (Rowe/Brunt/Martin) ahead of the expected losses and change in football dynamics thanks to Covid, then we're pretty smart if we made good choices. Did we do that? Will we try to sell that we did that after the fact? Given the messages about being taken to the next level etc around the hiring, I don't think we did, still it could all work out. If we can't afford to make transfers, our transfer team can't mess them up! Cunning. New head of talent I’d: And he’s a City fan....perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 @Davefevs @Mr Popodopolous Anything to stop Lansdown renaming Ashton Gate 'Pula Ashton Gate' on a 1/2 year deal as long as the value of the deal was a realistic amount for naming rights per season? As much as some fans would detest the idea, its perhaps one of the more realistic ways of reducing losses over the next 12/18 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, Lrrr said: @Davefevs @Mr Popodopolous Anything to stop Lansdown renaming Ashton Gate 'Pula Ashton Gate' on a 1/2 year deal as long as the value of the deal was a realistic amount for naming rights per season? As much as some fans would detest the idea, its perhaps one of the more realistic ways of reducing losses over the next 12/18 months? Don’t believe so....as you say, if it’s at market rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, Rob k said: As a football fan what do you want from out club? Not a dig a genuine question? Because i want a crack in the prem even if it’s just for one season but i literally see no hope No I agree - I mean to see no hope when we have been top half championship is way off. I want us to be in the prem - even for one season. The club, slowly, is heading in right direction though. My question right now would be did we get the right guy to replace LJ. If it was a short-term option due to financial restrictions etc then fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 30 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Reading up on some stuff, Covid losses are likely to include things like Testing Costs, changes to the ground or Failand to comply etc. Small potatoes in the grand scheme. The only thing of note that is materially helpful is transfer fee losses. But that has huge caveats in terms of proof. In another thread I gave a made-up example of Diedhiou, e.g. last January Dijon bid £6m for him. This January Dijon bid £1m. We couldn’t write-off £5m, because the 18 month versus 6 month contract remaining would be taken into account. In essence we might not be able to write off anything, as it’s our fault we’ve left it to a point where he’s in pre-contract territory. Would AG commercial bookings be included? From memory City had one of (think it was 2nd behind Leeds) the highest commercial incomes in the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWestStreet Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Based on these numbers we actually need to make a “transfer profit” of £35m to break even. This year we made £25m, but still lost £9m Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abraham Romanovich Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Football in business terms really is a basket case, it will never be sustainable if staff costs are higher than turnover. This pandemic hopefully will bring a sense of realism to the industry and a complete rethink is required in terms of wages and distribution of TV money. No business can expect to survive without income and whilst our accounts are sobering many other clubs are in a far worse position and the only surprise to me is that none have gone out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 This will be an issue at practically every club outside the Premier League. What will happen is what all businessmen do in this situation, they will find ways of reducing the cost base. What else can you do. If I was any lower league player coming to the end of my contract I would be expecting to be offered seriously reduced terms, take it or leave it. The blooding of younger players by us this season might be a huge blessing in disguise. We might just have more young ‘uns ready for Championship football next season than many other clubs needing to do the same thing to get by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveller Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 54 minutes ago, Olé said: Agree - not sure where the 55-60m loss next year is from, though it's still pretty bleak. My quick straw man maths is £33-35m loss for 20-21 if player trading is flat: With fans in AG our break-even in recent years has required £20m annual profit in the transfer market Our ticket, match day and commercial revenues from AG are c. £17m but AG Ltd has c. £5m staff costs which I guess are substantially reduced when it's not open - so let's say lose £17m revenue but save £2-4m costs = £13-15m loss. For simplicity assume other C-19 impacts offset, i.e. minor merchandising drop vs new revenue from Robins TV I assume FFP will make allowances for COVID but it brings the sustainability of Championship football into sharp relief. Since the 19/20 operating loss is £35M, before any Covid impact, then surely £33-35M for 20/21 has to be very optimistic? It implies Covid won’t add to the losses at all, which seems unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said: Football in business terms really is a basket case, it will never be sustainable if staff costs are higher than turnover. This pandemic hopefully will bring a sense of realism to the industry and a complete rethink is required in terms of wages and distribution of TV money. No business can expect to survive without income and whilst our accounts are sobering many other clubs are in a far worse position and the only surprise to me is that none have gone out of business. But has it ever been any different? It’s just it used to be the local rich guy sticking in a few quid where as now it’s big companies putting the money in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tin Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: This will be an issue at practically every club outside the Premier League. What will happen is what all businessmen do in this situation, they will find ways of reducing the cost base. What else can you do. If I was any lower league player coming to the end of my contract I would be expecting to be offered seriously reduced terms, take it or leave it. The blooding of younger players by us this season might be a huge blessing in disguise. We might just have more young ‘uns ready for Championship football next season than many other clubs needing to do the same thing to get by? Will it, though? The figures are there for all to see and a) the virus is/will surpress transfer values, b) what sellable assets do we have, Bentley at a push? If any youngster was to come into our side and show potential, the chances are they would be sold on to balance the books rather than be with us next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, Prinny said: If our actual plan was to get a manager who would be ok with playing young talent, hire coaches who were geared towards developing young talent, and sign experienced players who almost sound like managers who can help progress that talent (Rowe/Brunt/Martin) ahead of the expected losses and change in football dynamics thanks to Covid, then we're pretty smart if we made good choices. Did we do that? Will we try to sell that we did that after the fact? Given the messages about being taken to the next level etc around the hiring, I don't think we did, still it could all work out. If we can't afford to make transfers, our transfer team can't mess them up! Cunning. If they do that or try and do that, I think they will lose even more credibility, if i'm honest. If they had worked this all out in the summer and communicated the fact to us, I think more might have understood, but that's not "on message" and tantamount to an admission of incompetence. So they fed us the usual BS. BS - in this case not Bristol Sport, but bullshit. See what I did there?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, tin said: Will it, though? The figures are there for all to see and a) the virus is/will surpress transfer values, b) what sellable assets do we have, Bentley at a push? If any youngster was to come into our side and show potential, the chances are they would be sold on to balance the books rather than be with us next year. If you are thinking medium term of playing the likes of O’Leary, Massengo, Semenyo, Vyner, Bakinson, Moore and Edward’s next season, sending back the likes of Mawson and letting other contracts run down without spending a great deal in transfers you are clearly going to see your cost base reduce. If you can sell a couple for big bucks it will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Given that the government have thrown billions at Track and Trace with questionable results, it's only right we assume they have thrown Zillions of Billions to use Ashton Gate. Everything is rosey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 No chance will transfer fees and wages at the top level change. Clubs at our level will obviously be impacted on transfers in short-term but I don’t expect wages to suddenly drop like a stone with generally rich owners in championship willing to cover the losses for now. Simple reality is football isn’t like a normal business - clubs are in it to minimise losses and progress up the ladder etc but that’s about it. Not to turn a profit unless you are one of the top few in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, petehinton said: My worries too mate. I think I can feel SL’s eyes burning into the back of Ashton’s head from here re Fam’s contract. Can’t feel good releasing these accounts with a £5m+ fee player about to walk out the door for free, + the extra £6/7m also out of contract in the summer. MA talked about austerity in the summer, I can see this summer being goodbye to Bentley at the least. I think any tangible asset where we have decent enough cover in will go for a decent enough fee. If a big offer were to come in this month...... 33 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: I'm no expert on the numbers and others on here have explained what it all mean in detail ... ... but what I'm getting from this is that unless we have a net transfer profit at least 20M per season we are operating at a loss. If this is true I'm concerned because the only teams spending that kind of money on transfers are in the premier league and I cannot see anyone in our current squad as premier league quality. Where are we going to make 20M? See above. Bentley is our biggest saleable asset, especially in the form he is in at the moment. Nagy? Kalas? Next prospect - Vyner? If a big offer came in for any of them we will sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said: No chance will transfer fees and wages at the top level change. Clubs at our level will obviously be impacted on transfers in short-term but I don’t expect wages to suddenly drop like a stone with generally rich owners in championship willing to cover the losses for now. Simple reality is football isn’t like a normal business - clubs are in it to minimise losses and progress up the ladder etc but that’s about it. Not to turn a profit unless you are one of the top few in the world. With one of the impacts of Covid, in my opinion of course, being a significant reduction in attendances post-Covid (I think it is as inevitable as night follows day) and with FFP back in place I think that the amount of spend by almost all clubs will have to drop. Whether you do that by lowering squad numbers or lowering player wages I do think in the medium term at least that wage outlay by clubs simply has to drop......below the Premier League anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: With one of the impacts of Covid, in my opinion of course, being a significant reduction in attendances post-Covid (I think it is as inevitable as night follows day) and with FFP back in place I think that the amount of spend by almost all clubs will have to drop. Whether you do that by lowering squad numbers or lowering player wages I do think in the medium term at least that wage outlay by clubs simply has to drop......below the Premier League anyway. In the short term that might happen (especially below our level) but medium term things will go back to ‘normal’ pretty quickly as crowds come back I think. Overall no huge changes (although there probably should be) as football is a different animal to most things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, Taz said: If a big offer came in for any of them we will sell. Yeah but i dont think you are going to see any big offers. Look at the January transfers thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 35 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said: Jesus. We still took the decision to spend 4 million on wells though, plus a hefty contract. Covid impact couldnt have been forseen at that point, but the club will have had a decent idea of their profit and loss figures at that point. i kinda wish the end of the the season/ end of player’s contracts would happen sooner, the likes of weimann and pato have been good servants, but they wont get us promoted, have never had massive transfer values and are probably on healthy contracts.... they need to be moved on and their places given to younger players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, TonyTonyTony said: Yeah but i dont think you are going to see any big offers. Look at the January transfers thus far. That's true. For big offers, you're probably only going to see it if a Prem club wants to take a chance. If for example Burnley fancy Bentley in January, we may do well to get a decent wedge plus a loan back until the end of the season. Outside of the Prem there won't be a lot of money spent. If players move it will be through "trading" and signing free agents. Quite likely to see some loans from Prem to Champ or below, and may include a few loans with a future fee option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, Alex_BCFC said: In the short term that might happen (especially below our level) but medium term things will go back to ‘normal’ pretty quickly as crowds come back I think. Overall no huge changes (although there probably should be) as football is a different animal to most things. My point is that crowds will come back but in lower numbers overall as: A few people will take some persuading for a long time to come that it is safe to return to large gatherings Some people will either not be able to afford or not be able to justify the expense of watching football after Covid Other people will simply fall away and not bother to renew a season ticket as they simply aren't missing it like they thought they would We only need a 10% drop on our attendances and we are talking £1m plus on revenue reduction. That has to be factored in somewhere and given you need a certain amount of people to run a football club the obvious and simplest thing to do is reduce your transfer budget and player wages because that's where the huge money is spent. This won't be a problem unique to us though. Far from it and it might be argued we are in a better place than plenty of so called "bigger" clubs you could mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLRed Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Would actually say that’s fairly decent given the current climate. Many clubs will be far worse off and probably now have the additional debt of the 8 mill COVID loan or whatever it was. Anyone know if City took that option? we do have numerous saleable assets coming to end of contract so haven’t managed them very well and should have tied them down a while ago, although it’s possible ffp has been a restricting factor in that there are players that have suffered through injury that cost minimal money like Dasilva and Williams That if we can get them injury free long term, will be worth a considerable amount more. we do also have a few young assets who through being given the opportunity, have increased their ability and subsequent value and will provide the next wave of saleable assets further down the line. The likes of vyner, semenyo, bakinson and I’m sure massengo will come good eventually for a much greater fee than what we paid for him. there are also other players coming through that with more loan time, will develop into similar assets. Both edwards brothers, towler, Pearson, bell and Benarous. future is bright still when combining that with the infrastructure of the club (stadium, new training ground) And the owner who will ensure we become sustainable eventually. Just need time, consistency with a good coaching set up to develop the players and to get out the other side of Covid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: Yeah but i dont think you are going to see any big offers. Look at the January transfers thus far. It's a good point. I've not seen any other club's accounts but I can't imagine many are that healthy. Are we going to rely on the 3 that get promoted and get their £100m windfall to fund the entire division each summer? Perhaps supplemented by the odd sale to already established premier league clubs? If so, how many of our current players are going to be bought that way? Where is the next Brownhill, Webster or Kelly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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