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19/20 accounts released


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23 minutes ago, phantom said:

History never had supporters away from games for over a year.

I would imagine some will be desperate to get back, personally can’t wait. Time will obviously tell but there has been masses of doom and gloom regarding football’s future. This time last year I was constantly reading about 20/30 English league clubs going under and disappearing for good because of COVID, and to date none have.

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Finally got around to having a look at these!

Going to disregard FFP for a minute, one or two interesting snippets I noticed.

Quote

During the financial year the bank loan of £50m and the £20.05m loan from the immediate parent company Pula Sport Limited were both refinanced by a new loan provided by Pula Sport Limited, with a nominal interest rate of 2% above the Barclays Bank base rate, and a final instalment due date of 1 May 2040. The carrying amount at the year end is £70,122,500.

20 year repayment period? £3.5m per year or thereabouts? Though unsure if I've factored in 2% interest and as we've seen there, refinancing can mean further refinancing and the like.

Quote

Cash flows from financing activities        2020           2019

Interest paid                                         (1,138,070)  (1,015,444)

Interest payments seem to have ticked up a little- maybe linked to the first snippet?

Quote

The group as a whole has continued, as expected by the directors, to generate significant net accounting losses in the year and has required the financial support of its parent Pula Sport Limited. While the group continues to develop, it is dependent on ongoing group support to ensure it has adequate working capital to continue its operations and to complete the development of the training facility in the Football Club. Such finance comes from the parent company, Pula Sport Limited, a company owned and controlled by Mr & Mrs S P Lansdown, in funding working capital. Pula Sport Limited invests in the company via equity injections which confirms the long term commitment that they, and Mr & Mrs S P Lansdown, have to the company and the group. Pula Sport Limited has confirmed its ongoing support for the company and group through a further equity injection in the year of £8,650,000 and its refinancing on 26 May 2020 of the bank debt of £50,000,000 in Ashotn Gate Limited into a long term intra-group loan facility as described in note 19. Pula Sport Limited has also confirmed to the directors its ongoing support for the company and the group

This puts a bit more flesh on the bones of point one. Shouldn't have any issues on the solvency/going concern front! I wonder if that equity injection offsets £8,650,000 of the £70,122,500.

Quote

The group receives/ passes some of its tax losses from/ to fellow Pula Sport Limited group companies via group relief. It makes/ receives payment for these losses at the average rate of tax for the financial period in which the losses are relieved.

I've not really paid much attention to this before but others have. It might mitigate losses/the amount of funding needed to be put in every now and then?

Quote

7 Directors' remuneration

The remuneration of the directors of the company for the year paid by the group was as follows:

                                     2020                  2019

Remuneration   £105,380         £107,155

Directors pay was actually slightly down...

Quote

32 Related party transactions

Group

Key management compensation

                                                                              2020                      2019 

                                                                                  £                              £     

Key management compensation      1,766,829             1,588,061

...That of Key Management however was not! Unsure exactly who 'Key Management' might include- assume it's separate to the Directors?

Skipping back a bit and there are a couple of interesting bits.

Quote

29 Non adjusting events after the financial period

After the year end, the group has received £3,774,000 additional funding from Pula Sport Limited. This will be repaid upon receipt of the final instalment due to the group in respect of a player sale made during the year.

Is this like taking out a loan against future revenues- ie boost to the cash flow here and now, but then repaid on receipt?

Quote

26 Commitments

Group

Capital commitments

The group commenced the construction of a new football training facility in January 2020. The total amount contracted for but not provided in the financial statements in respect of the facility construction was £12,394,215 (2019 - £Nil).

We, if we didn't already know, now know the planned cost of the new Training Facility.

Quote

Other borrowings

As at the 31 May 2019, other borrowings comprised a £20,050,000 interest free loan from Pula Sport Limited, repayable over five equal instalments at annual intervals beginning on 30 May 2021. This loan, presented in accordance with FRS 102, was measured at the present value of the future payments discounted at a market rate of interest, had a carrying value of £18,606,117 as at 31 May 2019 (2020 - £Nil), with the unwinding of the discount being charged to the profit and loss account as an interest expense.

Both the bank loan and the prior year Pula Sport Limited loans were refinanced in the year by way of a second 'other borrowing' loan as detailed below.

The second 'other borrowing' loan has also been provided by Pula Sport Limited and is denominated in sterling with a nominal interest rate of 2% above the Barclays Bank base rate, and a final instalment due date of 1 May 2040. The carrying amount at the year end is £70,122,500 (2019 -£NII).

The loan is secured by a fixed charge over the stadium together with fixed charges over the plant and machinery, securities, debts, goodwill and insurances held by the group and a floating charge over the undertaking and assets of the company.

The loan is repayable in six instalments of £500,000 and £5,000,000 thereafter at annual intervals beginning on 1 December 2021, with the remaining balance being due in 2040. During the initial period, interest shall accrue daily and shall be capitalised on each interest payment date and added to the principle amount of the loan. Interest accrues where repayments fall due and are not made. Interest shall accrue from the date due until repaid at a rate of 3% per annum above the base rate of Barclays Bank plc.

This puts our Other borrowings- not least our refinancing- into proper detail! Highlighted a few key bits.

While I don't think we'll be thrown into administration, kicked out of Ashton Gate, charged millions a year in rent or interest, or anything like that- bits of this are worrying! The debt/loans are all to the Lansdown family, but some of the instalments and the 20 year period due...? Slightly confused by the six instalments of £500,000 and £5,000,000 thereafter- unless it is referring to Loan 1 and Loan 2 respectively?

Apologies if I've missed anything, first time I've read these accounts in any depth. Or misinterpreted anything!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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57 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Directors pay was actually slightly down...

...That of Key Management however was not! Unsure exactly who 'Key Management' might include- assume it's separate to the Directors?!

Don't forget this is just the Holding company with nominal leadership and I think just 2 directors, so it shouldn't be hard to work out who it goes to (ie JL) and at the number, probably not the full income of any individual, but a proportion relating to their Holding company board membership / duties.

The bulk of directors pay is in the subsidiaries ie in the football club itself where the directors pay number is 5x or more and I think the highest paid director (Mark Ashton) is on about £450,000+ and it' is this and other key personnel (ie in AG Ltd etc) which goes into your second number above?

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

While I don't think we'll be thrown into administration, kicked out of Ashton Gate, charged millions a year in rent or interest, or anything like that- bits of this are worrying! The debt/loans are all to the Lansdown family, but some of the instalments and the 20 year period due...?

The fact SL has taken over financing £50m of the £70m of borrowing is a good thing I think as it means SL and not Barclays Bank has a claim on our stadium. In the context of your point I think it is a positive, I would much rather be indebted to a person that owns the club rather than a third party that might result in losing an asset.

As I've said elsewhere yesterday and in the past on here, there needs to be a reasonably fair loan repayment structure to the Lansdown family otherwise the club can't ever take external investment let alone be sold, as SL's equity isn't properly reflected (I mean he could also convert loans to equity but I expect that fails FFP).

The repayments I guess are timed to add to the existing capital depreciation on the stadium asset, to provide a manageable (and fair under FFP) structure to account for the up front cost of building and owning these assets - ie annualized impact is proportional to annual commercial potential (and SL can't just give us a stadium!)

BTW out of likes as wanted to thank you for your observations! 

Edit: no longer out of likes, my OTIB membership didn't auto renew.

Edited by Olé
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9 hours ago, Hxj said:

I think that the FFP are distinctly better that you paint them.

The 'to be added back depreciaton' on the fixed assets was £2.8 million, £2.9 million and £2.8 million across the three years, I suspect that the FFP adjustment is nearer £6 million rather than £3 million.  The 2020 figures will also include a signifcant Covid Adjustment, my rough number is £4 million.

So I get FFP figures of:

2017/18 -£19 million

2018/19 +£16 million

2019/20 nil.

2020/21  headroom £72 million.  (£72 million+ nil)/2 + 16 million - 19 million = 39 million.

 

Okay, you're thinking of 3 years to that year- that's fine, I was taking bits in isolation- will go with yours for now!

Dunno where I got £3m from tbh- you might well be right though, Kieran Maguire's annual figures seem to be in the £4.5-5m for add backs/deductions for FFP purposes. Seems to average about £4.8m per season.

I also forgot to factor in the Covid adjustments- you think £4m??

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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20 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Personally, I am at a point where if Steve put the club up for sale tomorrow (and don't worry, he won't be, not for a few years at least) I wouldn't be too disappointed. I'd be willing to "twist" and see where a new owner would take us.

Yes, I would be a bit fearful of what the future would hold, but I'd also be excited. The new owners would likely come from one of three places: the far east, the middle east or America. I realise that would make some uneasy, however there are examples of successful owners from all of those places, and I would trust SL to sell to someone "fit and proper" as opposed to an ill-intentioned person/group. 

And when owners come in like the ones Portsmouth or Bury have had and we go to the wall....

Better the devil you know

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14 hours ago, phantom said:

History never had supporters away from games for over a year.

This last year will have a much greater affect on the future of professional sport than we realize now. Going to watch games in a stadium is a habit that many enjoy. But this year has almost certainly made many realise that it is not as essential as we thought.

With regard to Bristol City, the poor quality of the home performances for the last three years will, IMO, have serious implications.

While LJ was here, the underlying discontent of fans at games was noticeable. Not too vocal but a resignation to boring mediocrity. Barely any noticeable change with DH.

So assuming the club will have it's annual "Earlybird" Season Card sale, how many may have already decided that the entertainment value us so poor that it doesn't warrant the outlay in £'s?

Could we sell 12,000 this time based on the last three years?

Edited by cidered abroad
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Not sure if this has been posted but here are a bunch of charts (for those not brilliant with numbers .. like me) covering a lot... not great reading but interesting... it’s on Twitter so keep scrolling down for more...

 

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20 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If we'd kept those players at that time then we would have failed FFP by my calculations, and EFL do have in-season assessments available.

Perhaps we could have sold some of them in January but..only 6 months on deal.

Having said that, in your counterfactual how many of:

Maenpaa, Watkins, Adelakun, Weimann- plus Kalas and DaSilva, latterly in January Palmer, on loan do we sign? 

EFL do have past, present and future monitoring at their disposal. This can absolutely restrict inbound transfer activity.

I agree I’m massively playing devils advocate to exaggerate my point. Its a real sliding doors moment. 
Im just trying to say that sometimes the club needs to say no we are keeping our best players for a shot at promotion. The risk is we don’t make it, and lose some players for less than what we would have got or even nothing. However the potential reward is we make the Prem which sets us up for the next 5 years and potentially get some of those players to sign new  contracts. 
Yes we have become that club that sells its best players, for a big amount in some cases, but those higher up need to decide if our aim is to stay financially mid table (I was going to say solvent but we aren’t are we) and stay a mid table championship team, or every now and again when you have a core of talent you take that risk and go for it. 
The downside to the current strategy is we now have a team of players who don’t have the same saleability, so we are going to be a mid table team AND lose a lot of money. 

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12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay, you're thinking of 3 years to that year- that's fine, I was taking bits in isolation- will go with yours for now!

Dunno where I got £3m from tbh- you might well be right though, Kieran Maguire's annual figures seem to be in the £4.5-5m for add backs/deductions for FFP purposes. Seems to average about £4.8m per season.

I also forgot to factor in the Covid adjustments- you think £4m??

Thanks @Mr Popodopolous , that's a really useful breakdown.

I asked @Davefevs before about "other operating expenses"? Not sure if he came back to me or not, apologies.

On a turnover of £27.9m, a figure of £15.1m seems mightily expensive.

Most businesses will be expecting their staff wages to account for 80% of their costs. But in the accounts these are obviously shown separately.

Any idea what these "expenses" are?

You would think stadium costs would be offset across Bristol Sport, with the Bears playing there as well.

All a bit strange....

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11 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Thanks @Mr Popodopolous , that's a really useful breakdown.

I asked @Davefevs before about "other operating expenses"? Not sure if he came back to me or not, apologies.

On a turnover of £27.9m, a figure of £15.1m seems mightily expensive.

Most businesses will be expecting their staff wages to account for 80% of their costs. But in the accounts these are obviously shown separately.

Any idea what these "expenses" are?

You would think stadium costs would be offset across Bristol Sport, with the Bears playing there as well.

All a bit strange....

Not an easy reconciliation I’m afraid, but in 18/19’s accounts, other costs for the football club was £10.3m, and Stadium was £8.1m, but from a Holdings perspective it was £15.2, which doesn’t add up.  Can only assume there is some internal transfer pricing of “stuff” that knocks £3.2m off (£1.6m off each I’m guessing?).

I can only imagine that a big slug of that £10.3 (or £8.7m) is rent to AG Ltd and the cost of using Bristol Sport for ticketing, marketing, etc, etc.

But the accounts don’t split that out.

Its not a cheap operation as you say!

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13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not an easy reconciliation I’m afraid, but in 18/19’s accounts, other costs for the football club was £10.3m, and Stadium was £8.1m, but from a Holdings perspective it was £15.2, which doesn’t add up.  Can only assume there is some internal transfer pricing of “stuff” that knocks £3.2m off (£1.6m off each I’m guessing?).

I can only imagine that a big slug of that £10.3 (or £8.7m) is rent to AG Ltd and the cost of using Bristol Sport for ticketing, marketing, etc, etc.

But the accounts don’t split that out.

Its not a cheap operation as you say!

Thanks Dave.

So in the last 3 years other costs have gone up £5m; which is half our projected loss. Shame we can't get to the bottom of why these have increased so much(surely the rent is applicable to Bristol Sport, rather than Bristol City in terms of the payment to AG Ltd?)

I miss the AGM days, when as a shareholder we would be able to ask these questions directly (refused to give up my 1982 share certificate or my silver shareholder one from around 96). I didn't care for the take it or leave it offer from Pula Sports.

Sold loads of shares over the years through Cartwrights, and Burgess Salmon to other City fans though.

I know most football clubs are hardly transparent about their finances. But there are a lot of unknowns in these accounts. The old ones used to be broken down a lot more.

 

Edited by ncnsbcfc
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20 hours ago, PolskRed said:

I would imagine some will be desperate to get back, personally can’t wait. Time will obviously tell but there has been masses of doom and gloom regarding football’s future. This time last year I was constantly reading about 20/30 English league clubs going under and disappearing for good because of COVID, and to date none have.

Yeh they will come back quick no doubt. 

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36 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Thanks Dave.

So in the last 3 years other costs have gone up £5m; which is half our projected loss. Shame we can't get to the bottom of why these have increased so much(surely the rent is applicable to Bristol Sport, rather than Bristol City in terms of the payment to AG Ltd?)

I miss the AGM days, when as a shareholder we would be able to ask these questions directly (refused to give up my 1982 share certificate or my silver shareholder one from around 96). I didn't care for the take it or leave it offer from Pula Sports.

Sold loads of shares over the years through Cartwrights, and Burgess Salmon to other City fans though.

I know most football clubs are hardly transparent about their finances. But there are a lot of unknowns in these accounts. The old ones used to be broken down a lot more.

 

Nope, BCFC pay Ashton Gate limited for using the stadium (even though they both fall into Bristol City Holdings),  Bears also pay Ashton Gate Limited for using the stadium.

image.thumb.jpeg.fbb50a998809c2e98537bab84e4c6bee.jpeg

 

 

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Nope, BCFC pay Ashton Gate limited for using the stadium (even though they both fall into Bristol City Holdings),  Bears also pay Ashton Gate Limited for using the stadium.

image.thumb.jpeg.fbb50a998809c2e98537bab84e4c6bee.jpeg

 

 

Ha Ha, this is where it gets complicated; and must be a way of accounting for the coast of the rebuild?

So Bristol City Fc pay £10.3m to Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd to rent the stadium, which Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd then seem to pay to Bristol city Holdings Ltd?

Do Ashton Gate Stadium or Bristol City Holdings publish accounts separately?

If so, do they have staff/expenses costs that are offset against our accounts? Where does the £10.3m to Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd go to?

All fun this, isn't it .....

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On briefly and skimreading this, £10.3m in rent?? Or is it more of a circular transaction.

Wages were about £6m in excess of turnover in these accounts. Then the non cash items of amortisation, depreciation and impairment.

@ncnsbcfc The club, Ashton Gate Limited, Bristol City Holdings all do. It feels more complex than that, Dave posted the structure.

@Kid in the Riot

I'd be pretty wary about some of those who might be interested. There would in general be a proportion of those who are interested, of course there will be interest, who are fantasists, time wasters and tyre kickers.

Putting them aside, you mention Far East, Middle East and US investors.

Far East- China, Thailand- places such as this?

Aston Villa- Xia, say no more!

Birmingham- Likewise.

Cardiff- Tan. Two promotions but two relegation. Not seen Cardiff have a season without Parachute Payments yet save for his early years. 

Stay down and they're under FFP, with Parachute Payments dropping from £33m (IIRC) to zero!

QPR- Wasn't Tony Fernandes Malaysian? Record FFP fine, was it a record sporting fine, albeit restructured- still suffering the after effects of his era- they totally squandered PL and Parachute money under his reign.

Reading- Thai owners were so so but eventually reached playoffs on sale. Chinese owners look on track for playoffs potentially but feeling they're maybe in breach of FFP.

Sheffield Wednesday- Almost made it in Season 1, playoffs in Season 2 but thereafter been downhill from there!

Southampton- Reasonable on the pitch, increasingly poor off it. Owner might want out!

West Brom- Ownership mixed at best. Wants out too.

Wolves- Undoubtedly a success!

Middle East. Man City the gold standard, though FFP would limit a new version. However look at Derby- a consortium that has form with attempting to take over other clubs. PSG similar to Man City, Prince Abdullah at Sheffield United, mixed at best. Allam family (Egypt) went sour at Hull- that said half of the Aston Villa saviours are Egyptian- Sawiris.

USA- Could be good, however, they have a liking for leveraged buyouts!

See Man United, fairly sure Gillette and Hicks were a problem, Burnley might be along those lines. Lerner and Short had mixed records, both went downhill. Swansea run things quite tightly but if no promotion and Parachute Payments next year will get tighter still... Other half of the Aston Villa saviours is American too (Wes Edens).

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16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On briefly and skimreading this, £10.39m in rent?? Or is it more of a circular transaction.

Wages were about £6m in excess of turnover in these accounts. Then the non cash items of amortisation, depreciation and impairment.

@ncnsbcfc The club, Ashton Gate Limited, Bristol City Holdings all do. It feels more complex than that, Dave posted the structure.

@Kid in the Riot

I'd be pretty wary about some of those who might be interested. There would in general be a proportion of those who are interested, of course there will be interest, who are fantasists, time wasters and tyre kickers.

Putting them aside, you mention Far East, Middle East and US investors.

Far East- China, Thailand- places such as this?

Aston Villa- Xia, say no more!

Birmingham- Likewise.

Cardiff- Tan. Two promotions but two relegation. Not seen Cardiff have a season without Parachute Payments yet save for his early years. 

Stay down and they're under FFP, with Parachute Payments dropping from £33m (IIRC) to zero!

QPR- Wasn't Tony Fernandes Malaysian? Record FFP fine, was it a record sporting fine, albeit restructured- still suffering the after effects of his era- they totally squandered PL and Parachute money under his reign.

Reading- Thai owners were so so but eventually reached playoffs on sale. Chinese owners look on track for playoffs potentially but feeling they're maybe in breach of FFP.

Sheffield Wednesday- Almost made it in Season 1, playoffs in Season 2 but thereafter been downhill from there!

Southampton- Reasonable on the pitch, increasingly poor off it. Owner might want out!

West Brom- Ownership mixed at best. Wants out too.

Wolves- Undoubtedly a success!

Middle East. Man City the gold standard, though FFP would limit a new version. However look at Derby- a consortium that has form with attempting to take over other clubs. PSG similar to Man City, Prince Abdullah at Sheffield United, mixed at best. Allam family (Egypt) went sour at Hull- that said half of the Aston Villa saviours are Egyptian- Sawiris.

USA- Could be good, however, they have a liking for leveraged buyouts!

See Man United, fairly sure Gillette and Hicks were a problem, Burnley might be along those lines. Lerner and Short had mixed records, both went downhill. Swansea run things quite tightly but if no promotion and Parachute Payments next year will get tighter still... Other half of the Aston Villa saviours is American too (Wes Edens).

Let's not forget the Blackburn Venky chicken boys who apparently didn't realise you could get relegated.

Last but not least Fayed at Fulham.

At the list goes on ..........

Edited by BigTone
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1 minute ago, BigTone said:

Let's not forget the Blackburn  Venky chicken boys who apparently didn't realise you could get relegated

Yes, good point.

Lot of suspect owners out there (varied homegrown ones too of course). I would be especially wary though, about selling up to an owner who is from a non traditional football background.

No guarantees ever, but UK followed by Western Europe who are more likely to 'get' football and relevant football related regulations.

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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yes, good point.

Lot of suspect owners out there (varied homegrown ones too of course). I would be especially wary though, about selling up to an owner who is from a non traditional football background.

No guarantees ever, but UK followed by Western Europe who are more likely to 'get' football and relevant football related regulations.

If I was a Sunderland fan I would be nervous about their new 23yo billionaire owner. Will end in tears believe me. Russian isn't he ?

Edited by BigTone
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1 hour ago, ncnsbcfc said:

Ha Ha, this is where it gets complicated; and must be a way of accounting for the coast of the rebuild?

So Bristol City Fc pay £10.3m to Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd to rent the stadium, which Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd then seem to pay to Bristol city Holdings Ltd?

Do Ashton Gate Stadium or Bristol City Holdings publish accounts separately?

If so, do they have staff/expenses costs that are offset against our accounts? Where does the £10.3m to Ashton Gate Stadium Ltd go to?

All fun this, isn't it .....

No, BCH doesn’t trade itself, purely acts as a holding company to bring two companies together for reporting purposes.

I didn’t say £10.3m in rent to AG Ltd....I said a slug of it goes to either AG or BS.  But we don’t know how much.

Yes, BCFC and AG publish separate accounts, you can view 18/19s on Companies House beta (CHB) online.  19/20s will be on in a few days, takes that time to upload them to CHB

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18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Finally got around to having a look at these!

Going to disregard FFP for a minute, one or two interesting snippets I noticed.

20 year repayment period? £3.5m per year or thereabouts? Though unsure if I've factored in 2% interest and as we've seen there, refinancing can mean further refinancing and the like.

Interest payments seem to have ticked up a little- maybe linked to the first snippet?

This puts a bit more flesh on the bones of point one. Shouldn't have any issues on the solvency/going concern front! I wonder if that equity injection offsets £8,650,000 of the £70,122,500.

I've not really paid much attention to this before but others have. It might mitigate losses/the amount of funding needed to be put in every now and then?

Directors pay was actually slightly down...

...That of Key Management however was not! Unsure exactly who 'Key Management' might include- assume it's separate to the Directors?

Skipping back a bit and there are a couple of interesting bits.

Is this like taking out a loan against future revenues- ie boost to the cash flow here and now, but then repaid on receipt?

We, if we didn't already know, now know the planned cost of the new Training Facility.

This puts our Other borrowings- not least our refinancing- into proper detail! Highlighted a few key bits.

While I don't think we'll be thrown into administration, kicked out of Ashton Gate, charged millions a year in rent or interest, or anything like that- bits of this are worrying! The debt/loans are all to the Lansdown family, but some of the instalments and the 20 year period due...? Slightly confused by the six instalments of £500,000 and £5,000,000 thereafter- unless it is referring to Loan 1 and Loan 2 respectively?

Apologies if I've missed anything, first time I've read these accounts in any depth. Or misinterpreted 

 

Edited by BigTone
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