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Norwich are the best team in this league.


Prinny
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1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

With our current squad (And more importantly what the squad will look like when a few OOC walk) , with the current set up from Ashton to Holden 

Do you honestly believe that ?

 

Or put another way 

 

Now and looking forward

Do you think we are progressing or regressing ?

Good points. The way I worded it wasn't the best. Was thinking about the current squad as constituted.

My initial thinking was that if players such as Baker, DaSilva, Williams, Walsh, Weimann, Paterson were available this would improve us on the first team front plus the added competition and ability to rotate would also help.

Possibly Sessegnon and O'Dowda as well though the end product of these two hasn't been notably high, Mawson return feels a boost.

I also don't think much of the way we often set up. Such a setup tonight plays into Norwich's hands IMO, makes it much easier for them.

4-4-2 or the version of?? "Hi Norwich, now today, we're just going to let you have the run of the midfield".

I digress, but I still think a version of 4-3-3 with a fairly fully fit squad could have had us pushing for playoffs more strongly. A version which doesn't stick Wells on the left or run Martin into the ground! Better football. By definition if we're closer to the playoff picture, we might be closer to Norwich.

Time comes in as well, to some extent. The back 3 worked quite well early season and with Williams especially there was room to build on things...

Moving forward, there are a lot out of contract, no doubt. It could be a big opportunity or it could be the beginning of a sharper decline. It feels like it could be big either way though.

Hard to say. I'd like to see us with a lot less injuries before fully judging Holden, recruitment I still think was a mixed bag, but the injuries never will help. We have three players who have not kicked a single ball in the League with injury, then the rest who have had various timespans out...

Recruitment mixed bag on an individual basis, but throw massive injuries into the mix and we definitely won't be top 6 contenders as it stands. Feels all a bit stagnant to me right now.

I think we should really be looking at utilising free and loan market ahead of 2021/22, think quite a lot of clubs will be hemmed in financially and this is an area we could utilise, in a fairly tight landscape cash wise. Some good players who might need a home in the summer, out of contract. 

Said it on another thread, I don't believe all is lost but this summer could be pivotal to the medium term.

Hope that the club, the management, our recruitment are working tirelessly and to a plan. This summer with so many out of contract and Holden only on a 12 month rolling deal feels like a possible watershed one.

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3 hours ago, Prinny said:

We're going to eviscerate the team and coaching for this performance, but before we do so, and while we do so, there needs to be at least an acknowledgement of the opposition quality. I think some people went WAAAAAY over the top with the praise after a poor 20 minutes from Preston, and no doubt some others will go WAAAAAY over the top with criticism today.

Now this absolutely does not excuse every or indeed any aspect of todays showing, but they're really good.

Cantwell is my favourite, always seems to show up with a performance whenever I get to watch Norwich.

Skipp looks like a future superstar though obv on loan from Spurs.

We didn't even get to see how good Krul is with 0 shots on target :laugh:

I’ve never ‘got’ this playing against the ‘best team’ argument ... it’s been clear and obvious for many a year that the English league, and the divisions therein, is one of the most capable leagues in the world to see a ‘poor’ or ‘bottom’ club triumph against a top, ‘best team’ - I remember ‘bottom of the prem’ Wolves beating ‘top of the prem’ Man Yoo with a Kenny Miller strike - this stuff happens regularly and it is the reason Ladbrokes is rich! It’s also a poor excuse to use to dismiss a dismal away performance ...

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Shame on them for that gutless, pathetic performance. Norwich might be a good team but they didn't need to get out of bottom gear to easily beat us. Far to many matches this season we have been boring to watch. To me going to football is like going to church, break the habit & you don't go back. I feel club is in for a big shock when fans are allowed back with the big drop in season ticket sales. If they want me & my family to return I want to be entertained even if we lose. Rant over!

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10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good points. The way I worded it wasn't the best. Was thinking about the current squad as constituted.

My initial thinking was that if players such as Baker, DaSilva, Williams, Walsh, Weimann, Paterson were available this would improve us on the first team front plus the added competition and ability to rotate would also help.

Possibly Sessegnon and O'Dowda as well though the end product of these two hasn't been notably high, Mawson return feels a boost.

I also don't think much of the way we often set up. Such a setup tonight plays into Norwich's hands IMO, makes it much easier for them.

4-4-2 or the version of?? "Hi Norwich, now today, we're just going to let you have the run of the midfield".

I digress, but I still think a version of 4-3-3 with a fairly fully fit squad could have had us pushing for playoffs more strongly. A version which doesn't stick Wells on the left or run Martin into the ground! Better football. By definition if we're closer to the playoff picture, we might be closer to Norwich.

Time comes in as well, to some extent. The back 3 worked quite well early season and with Williams especially there was room to build on things...

Moving forward, there are a lot out of contract, no doubt. It could be a big opportunity or it could be the beginning of a sharper decline. It feels like it could be big either way though.

Hard to say. I'd like to see us with a lot less injuries before fully judging Holden, recruitment I still think was a mixed bag, but the injuries never will help. We have three players who have not kicked a single ball in the League with injury, then the rest who have had various timespans out...

Recruitment mixed bag on an individual basis, but throw massive injuries into the mix and we definitely won't be top 6 contenders as it stands. Feels all a bit stagnant to me right now.

I think we should really be looking at utilising free and loan market ahead of 2021/22, think quite a lot of clubs will be hemmed in financially and this is an area we could utilise, in a fairly tight landscape cash wise. Some good players who might need a home in the summer, out of contract. 

Said it on another thread, I don't believe all is lost but this summer could be pivotal to the medium term.

Hope that the club, the management, our recruitment are working tirelessly and to a plan. This summer with so many out of contract and Holden only on a 12 month rolling deal feels like a possible watershed one.

Thanks for the well written thoughts Mr P - I just don’t have any confidence that key people who have got us to this point will suddenly pull a large handful of rabbits out the bag 

If I’m being brutal there are serious questions about the roles of Ashton , Jon Lansdown , Holden and about a third of the squad at least

At least one of those is going nowhere and you simply can’t overhaul all and everything at same time 

If those OOC all walk for free we are going to have to up our game in every aspect Recruitment , coaching by a significant margin just to stand still IMHO

Edited by Sheltons Army
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5 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Whilst this is all true, haven’t we given them the two worse games against them they’ve had this season? Stats wise and possibly score wise? 
 

I’ve watched them quite a bit this season whenever they’ve been on and we’ve given them their two easiest games 

As one of their posters has said , after commenting how really poor we are 

‘Can we play them every week’ 

Edited by Sheltons Army
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One of the differences that constantly gnaws away at me, is every other team with massive injury problems tends to play a consistent formation and seems to adapt their player selection to fit their best attributes in that system. 

Whereas City seem to approach the selection like FIFA, where you have to have your best (and fit) players all on the pitch at the same time. This is why we typically conceded first and end up with Fam, Wells and Mr Coldplay come the end of the game.

We are doing this at the expense of a logical formation - by this time in a game, we have removed the midfield creativity and more traditional wingers (of the few we have left) in the hope a striker might nick it.

In effect, this is what we have done largely when winning [Preston excepted] especially at the start of the season.

This system can work, until Warnock and Millwall very publicly pointed out it was easy to spot and counter, so here we are - arrrghh. More of the same to come.

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40 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

One of the differences that constantly gnaws away at me, is every other team with massive injury problems tends to play a consistent formation and seems to adapt their player selection to fit their best attributes in that system. 

Whereas City seem to approach the selection like FIFA, where you have to have your best (and fit) players all on the pitch at the same time. This is why we typically conceded first and end up with Fam, Wells and Mr Coldplay come the end of the game.

We are doing this at the expense of a logical formation - by this time in a game, we have removed the midfield creativity and more traditional wingers (of the few we have left) in the hope a striker might nick it.

In effect, this is what we have done largely when winning [Preston excepted] especially at the start of the season.

This system can work, until Warnock and Millwall very publicly pointed out it was easy to spot and counter, so here we are - arrrghh. More of the same to come.

For me, if you focus on one main system you have a foundation to analyse against, both good performances and bad performances and what caused them.

If you chop and change you lose that ability to cross-reference.

The other obvious thing is players get used to it.

If we change on Saturday to something other than 442, what do we cross-reference the performance / result to?

I accept that injuries may have forced DH away from 352, but other than Saturday v Preston I’m struggling to see a decent performance in any other system.  But with Mawson back, why isn’t he going back to the system he spent the summer building.

The other, other obvious thing is that you can more easily recruit for one system.

I actually don’t care if that system is nor 442....stick to it.

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2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

I’ve watched them quite a bit this season whenever they’ve been on and we’ve given them their two easiest games 

As one of their posters has said , after commenting how really poor we are 

‘Can we play them every week’ 

I didn't think the game at AG was that easy- we had a reasonable amount of possession and a reasonable number of chances- assuming we're talking about Norwich.

Tonight though? They won't have had an easier game all season I think- we were sloppy early, caught cold in the first game but like I say had chances of our own- in addition to the penalty miss and Martin hitting the post, Krul also made some useful saves.

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3 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Thanks for the well written thoughts Mr P - I just don’t have any confidence that key people who have got us to this point will suddenly pull a large handful of rabbits out the bag 

If I’m being brutal there are serious questions about the roles of Ashton , Jon Lansdown , Holden and about a third of the squad at least

At least one of those is going nowhere and you simply can’t overhaul all and everything at same time 

If those OOC all walk for free we are going to have to up our game in every aspect Recruitment , coaching by a significant margin just to stand still IMHO

Same to you Shelts, enjoy the well written content.

Jon Lansdown- how could I forget about him! What does he even do?? Holden I'm still taking a bit of a wait and see, Ashton recruitment on the 1st team maybe, I'm still a bit ambivalent- if he's responsible for the recruitment in the physio, fitness, form and conditioning part, well his input there seems terrible there!

Agreed- big overhaul all at once is a recipe for problems, was still wondering if Holden might have been a bit of a holding pattern, to blood some youngsters and keep the ship steady in the Championship- ahead of the below...

Coaching I don't know so much about, will deder to others on that- Recruitment I think has been middling- but agreed we need top up it, because though I don't think we have a load of terrible players individually, or even in a variety of circs collectively though I wonder about the shape, the improvement, whether young players improve sufficently etc, to make our system work middling is not enough, would not be enough! Has to be more 8.5-9.5/10 rather than 4.5-6/10 as a typical hit rate.

In terms of young players and improvement, our squad is an interesting age profile...we have a number who are 30+ and a number who are aged in the 19-23 bracket. Probably decent as an average but unsure if it's optimum for what we would need- again that's where middling can kick in.

Moving forward, it will be a very important summer indeed and particularly if all those out of contract go- we'll need two RBs for a start- the below is working on the assumption that indeed, nobody will be renewed- age at time season ends- returning loanees still under contract will be in a different category.

GK:

  1. Bentley- 27
  2. O'Leary- 24
  3. Wollacott- 24

Lack of experience in 3rd choice, but overall seems okay, Age range too.

RB:

Nobody at starting point. 2 needed!

CB:

  1. Kalas- 27, turns 28 mid May.
  2. Moore- 23, turns 24 mid May.
  3. Vyner- As above.
  4. Mariappa- Couple of sites say he's to 2022- can't be right surely? Anyway he's 34.

LB:

  1. DaSilva- 23.
  2. Pring- 22, turns 23 this week.

CM:

  1. Nagy- 25
  2. Williams- 24
  3. Bakinson- 22.
  4. Morton- 21, turns 22 in April.
  5. Massengo- 19.

Wide Men- includes wingers, and other types out wide:

  1. O'Dowda- 25, 26 in April.
  2. Opi Edwards- 21, 22 in April. Unclear if he's out of contract.

Attacking midfielders:

  1. Palmer- 24.

Forwards:

  1. Martin- 32.
  2. Wells- 30
  3. Semenyo- 21
  4. Bell- 18, turns 19 in late May.

Returning loanees- can't even be bothered to look at these tbh! :laugh:

The age profile isn't as good as I first thought tbh- quite young which gives potential to realise and increase in value but frankly experience and age...I know we'd need to make additions but Kinnell! Vyner, Bakinson and Semenyo will undoubtedly be better for the experience, Moore started the season with some promise but seemed to regress. Massengo at 19 still, potentially regressed or at least stalled on 2019/20- though vs Preston he showed promise and time is on the side of all of these but the age profile...well I suppose sides can press high more readily on the one hand but even though a lot are of a good age, as a whole I'd worry about that.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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