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TomThumb84

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Unless rectified, yes, a distinct possibility.

I dislike Ashton, but I do feel that that this is a combined SL/JL/MA/LJ legacy.  We don’t have a bad squad, but the wastage I’ve been warning about for two years.  Covid finances have helped surface that the family silver has been sold off against a horrendous increase in costs.  Unsustainable....The exact opposite of the strategy.

I've read countless comments/threads over the last four a five years by people who have had concerns regarding the unsustainability of the 'trading' model. I don't think it was sustainable even before COVID

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Just now, Harry said:

And the incoming loanee which Ashton said we’re hoping to bring in, which Holden knew nothing about?? Tell me again who has final say? Who decides who comes in? 
Come on now Shelts - the dots are all there for you, stop drawing a wavy line around them. 

Ha ha

Firstly - Lets see whether a loan signing arrives 

And as for who decides,  I could list players who were clear Johnson picks Watkins , Eliasson .... you know it and I do,

I have a neutral starting point where Ashton is concerned but your view is a bit one eyed and has a personal spice , IMHO Harry ( Id still seriously and urgently be looking at him with a view to a change - Though SLs appointments leave little real hope of a good replacement )

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Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

I've read countless comments/threads over the last four a five years by people who have had concerns regarding the unsustainability of the 'trading' model. I don't think it was sustainable even before COVID

It’s sustainable with skilled recruitment, because not only do you get players cheap and young whose value increase ✅, but you also improve on the pitch ✅ to an extent that some players want to grow with you ✅ so you don’t have to sell them the first time a PL team flashes their eyelids.

Not saying it’s easy.  But you build that succession planning so as a player leaves, you’ve already got that player ready, and hopefully ready to make you better.

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6 minutes ago, reddoh said:

realist Leeds, Portsmouth 

don't leave your posts open ended.

Yeah I know I’m trying not to think about that possibility tbh. 

when fans are allowed back in the stadium I wonder if a section of fans may express their opinion on Ashton etc.

think the club are avoiding answering a lot of the question being thrown at them because there is hardly any communication between the two 

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s sustainable with skilled recruitment, because not only do you get players cheap and young whose value increase ✅, but you also improve on the pitch ✅ to an extent that some players want to grow with you ✅ so you don’t have to sell them the first time a PL team flashes their eyelids.

Not saying it’s easy.  But you build that succession planning so as a player leaves, you’ve already got that player ready, and hopefully ready to make you better.

....and coaching too.

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Just now, Finley_Smith10 said:

Yeah I know I’m trying not to think about that possibility tbh. 

when fans are allowed back in the stadium I wonder if a section of fans may express their opinion on Ashton etc.

think the club are avoiding answering a lot of the question being thrown at them because there is hardly any communication between the two 

the club is a business it will put out what it wants to be out there the rest is confidential. you just have to accept that. 

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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s sustainable with skilled recruitment, because not only do you get players cheap and young whose value increase ✅, but you also improve on the pitch ✅ to an extent that some players want to grow with you ✅ so you don’t have to sell them the first time a PL team flashes their eyelids.

Not saying it’s easy.  But you build that succession planning so as a player leaves, you’ve already got that player ready, and hopefully ready to make you better.

I did delete the last line that mentioned decent recruitment! 

I guess as well you have to factor in risk too, and also that the player might get injured or not seems to flourish because even though he has talent, doesn't appear so in the wrong set up. 

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5 minutes ago, Harry said:

And the incoming loanee which Ashton said we’re hoping to bring in, which Holden knew nothing about?? Tell me again who has final say? Who decides who comes in? 
Come on now Shelts - the dots are all there for you, stop drawing a wavy line around them. 

Holden doesn't seem to know much about anything that goes on at the club tbh. I picked up very early on in his interviews that he lacked the detailed knowledge of what is going on at the club that LJ had. 

DH is completely out of his depth unfortunately and quite possibly the biggest puppet employed by SL yet. I only have circumstantial evidence but I'd be willing to bet that DH has the narrowest remit and least responsibilities of a manager at BCFC since Millen.

LJ, JMc were heavily involved in the recruitment process, I'd honestly be surprised if DH had any involvement beyond nodding in agreement when being told by MA which players we are signing/selling. 

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35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The people “running” this club have finally shown themselves to be a busted flush.

The owner has failed to see the warning signs.

I think Holden is fighting for his job / head-coach career...and although he’s made mistakes of late, he’s been let down by those above him.

The financial signs have been there for 2 seasons.  They were hamstringing the club, now that hamstring is torn...the irony!

I see very similar signs to 8 or so years ago.  I don’t think Holden is to blame, that’s not to say he doesn’t have faults, but there’s a bigger picture here.

I said in November I predict us being in League 1 again by 2023/24 and I'm not budging on that statement.

We're heading down the same path as we were 10 years ago. Poor football, a group of averaging players, inept Management, poor fan/club relations, has been players 

Lansdown had a change of stance from then, he learned, he said, the same won't happen again, he said. Maybe it isn't the transfer structure Mr Lansdown. Maybe it is you?

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29 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Do you honestly think we will go down to league one in years to come?

McInnes managed to avoid relegation to League 1 in season 2011/12, but had his playing budget slashed by 50% for the following campaign, lost Cisse pre-season, failed to recruit a capable centre back and was promptly fired the following January.

Enter Sean O'Driscoll, five sustainable pillars, three missed pens and some total bores and the slide backwards from the euphoria of May 2008 was complete.

A warning from history.

 

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Just now, Curr Avon said:

McInnes managed to avoid relegation to League 1 in season 2011/12, but had his playing slashed by 50% for the following campaign, lost Cisse pre-season, failed to recruit a capable centre back and was promptly fired the following January.

Enter Sean O'Driscoll, five sustainable pillars, three missed pens and some total bores and the slide backwards from the euphoria of May 2008 was complete.

A warning from history.

 

Is the football we play now any better than SOD in league 1? Not for me.

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9 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I did delete the last line that mentioned decent recruitment! 

I guess as well you have to factor in risk too, and also that the player might get injured or not seems to flourish because even though he has talent, doesn't appear so in the wrong set up. 

Good recruitment has risk mitigation built in.

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4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Holden doesn't seem to know much about anything that goes on at the club tbh. I picked up very early on in his interviews that he lacked the detailed knowledge of what is going on at the club that LJ had. 

DH is completely out of his depth unfortunately and quite possibly the biggest puppet employed by SL yet. I only have circumstantial evidence but I'd be willing to bet that DH has the narrowest remit and least responsibilities of a manager at BCFC since Millen.

LJ, JMc were heavily involved in the recruitment process, I'd honestly be surprised if DH had any involvement beyond nodding in agreement when being told by MA which players we are signing/selling. 

I concur with all of this and your post lends itself to my long held belief that Dean was appointed mainly to enhance and solidify the responsibilities and the positions of those above him.

Alarm bells rang more loudly when Dean stated not so long ago that he and Mark Ashton talk “several times a day”. This seems unhealthily excessive for a Head Coach trying to do things his own way.

Recent contradictions culminating tonight in the two seemingly completely disconnected around Fam and the mystery loan signing appear to confirm my worries.

I feel for Dean but he must be beginning to know how exposed he looks not knowing anything about signings, contracts or injuries. I think he is a proud man and I believe he is beginning to show frustration in the way he is carrying himself.

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Just now, Davefevs said:

Good recruitment has risk mitigation built in.

Yes and that's where it falls down at City. The recruitment isn't good enough because it appears to be mostly based on data and as you highlighted the other day, not on the football al Keith Burt type of scout. 

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Considering our injury crisis, we still had our record signing , a centre back (as well!) out there, a £20m centre back on loan , a £2.5 M goalkeeper, a 3.5 m and 2.5 M centre midfield and our second highest signing up front. Not forgetting a 5.5 M forward (or is he now a winger) on the bench.  Yes we are missing DaSilva , Weimann too for his running around, and the hot and cold Jamie P for some cameo appearances. . We don't know if Williams is a loss as he has never played, a bit similar to Walsh at this level. The team is unbalanced, Vyner and Adelakun hardly your first choice in midfield. But it is not a complete rag team. Forget the game today anyway, Norwich are miles off for us (another team we have failed to emulate mind you) , it is the lack of coherence that is shocking. Anyway, relegation should not happen, but if anyone offers a couple of million for Fam , or some token fees for the others out of contract, then a late dash for relegation could yet be possible. Not quite the plan we were told, yes we were told this, not invented, not a fans dream, but the club told us they wanted some fresh ideas to "kick on" for the Prem. 

The club look as confused and rudderless as in all the other awful moments of the past 20 years, and a shameful far cry from the beating heart and passion we had as we won the L1 title and that fleeting glimpse of high octane football during the league cup run. It seems we are completely unable to stop ourselves repeating old errors or able to understand really what made the better moments successful. Holden is not to blame, he should never have been put in a job he is so inadequately prepared for, but do we always have to keep repeating to same old nonsense. The warning signs are there for a very very big problem coming soon. We have seen all this before. 

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I'd say its the opposite. The board including MA are very adept in selling the best players for large sums of money to the detriment of the team. Its up to the coaching staff to coach and encourage the next multi million pound player. There's the problem, where is Northern Streaky going to find the next Adam Webster? At least LJ had the foresight to put Bobby Reid up front and make the club millions.

 

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3 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

Considering our injury crisis, we still had our record signing , a centre back (as well!) out there, a £20m centre back on loan , a £2.5 M goalkeeper, a 3.5 m and 2.5 M centre midfield and our second highest signing up front. Not forgetting a 5.5 M forward (or is he now a winger) on the bench.  Yes we are missing DaSilva , Weimann too for his running around, and the hot and cold Jamie P for some cameo appearances. . We don't know if Williams is a loss as he has never played, a bit similar to Walsh at this level. The team is unbalanced, Vyner and Adelakun hardly your first choice in midfield. But it is not a complete rag team. Forget the game today anyway, Norwich are miles off for us (another team we have failed to emulate mind you) , it is the lack of coherence that is shocking. Anyway, relegation should not happen, but if anyone offers a couple of million for Fam , or some token fees for the others out of contract, then a late dash for relegation could yet be possible. Not quite the plan we were told, yes we were told this, not invented, not a fans dream, but the club told us they wanted some fresh ideas to "kick on" for the Prem. 

The club look as confused and rudderless as in all the other awful moments of the past 20 years, and a shameful far cry from the beating heart and passion we had as we won the L1 title and that fleeting glimpse of high octane football during the league cup run. It seems we are completely unable to stop ourselves repeating old errors or able to understand really what made the better moments successful. Holden is not to blame, he should never have been put in a job he is so inadequately prepared for, but do we always have to keep repeating to same old nonsense. The warning signs are there for a very very big problem coming soon. We have seen all this before. 

and before 

and before 

add probably before 

searched google 

best result was shit happens get over it.

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23 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Yes and that's where it falls down at City. The recruitment isn't good enough because it appears to be mostly based on data and as you highlighted the other day, not on the football al Keith Burt type of scout. 

Good recruitment needs to be matched to a playing plan and ethos Max (Brentford , Swansea , Burnley etc etc)

We havnt had a set method of playing and ethos since the Ashton / Johnson show commenced , so even if we had a decent recruitment team , we are unlikely to join the dots

The playing style was meant to have been introduced by Johnson who instead played just about every formation and approach you can imagine , and recruited every type of toy ((Often flawed ones) with Ashton’s help , wasting millions and leaving us with a mess , and a large squad of , misfits

 

7 minutes ago, Swede said:

I'd say its the opposite. The board including MA are very adept in selling the best players for large sums of money to the detriment of the team. Its up to the coaching staff to coach and encourage the next multi million pound player. There's the problem, where is Northern Streaky going to find the next Adam Webster? At least LJ had the foresight to put Bobby Reid up front and make the club millions.

 

And then successfully wasted it on poor players or players that didn’t fit any plan

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8 minutes ago, Swede said:

I'd say its the opposite. The board including MA are very adept in selling the best players for large sums of money to the detriment of the team. Its up to the coaching staff to coach and encourage the next multi million pound player. There's the problem, where is Northern Streaky going to find the next Adam Webster? At least LJ had the foresight to put Bobby Reid up front and make the club millions.

 

Wasn’t that more by accident and necessity than anything else? We also had a better team structure in which he could shine. We don’t seem to have any of that at the moment

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3 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Good recruitment needs to be matched to a playing plan and ethos Max (Brentford , Swansea , Burnley etc etc)

We havnt had a set method of playing and ethos since the Ashton / Johnson show commenced , so even if we had a decent recruitment team , we are unlikely to join the dots

The playing style was meant to have been introduced by Johnson who instead played just about every formation and approach you can imagine , and recruited every type of toy ((Often flawed ones) with Ashton’s help , wasting millions and leaving us with a mess , and a large squad of , misfits

 

And then successfully wasted it on poor players or players that didn’t fit any plan

We haven’t had a plan since 2014. 

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47 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

 

I feel for Dean but he must be beginning to know how exposed he looks not knowing anything about signings, contracts or injuries. I think he is a proud man and I believe he is beginning to show frustration in the way he is carrying himself.

Very close to the truth here, he doesn’t control a thing, Ashton and his mates do 

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I’m convinced there is a plan but it’s a far wider plan than we as football supporters “need to know” (frustrating as that sounds) and like it or not the football element is only part of the overall Bristol Sport business plan.

The Bristol Sport plan does not currently have all of its ducks in a row, empty stadiums due to COVID being major, and certainly the football element does not have its ducks in a row either (injuries, player recruitment/development and signings over the last few years, playing style to name but a few).  When all of the development work has been completed including the football training and basketball facilities there will be a complete package and at that point the football element will simply have to be stepped up to run parallel to the level of Bristol Bears to be sustainable.  This may, or may not, be with DH at the helm, who knows, but until then it’s going to be treading water.

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1 hour ago, Psychopomp said:

Considering our injury crisis, we still had our record signing , a centre back (as well!) out there, a £20m centre back on loan , a £2.5 M goalkeeper, a 3.5 m and 2.5 M centre midfield and our second highest signing up front. Not forgetting a 5.5 M forward (or is he now a winger) on the bench.  Yes we are missing DaSilva , Weimann too for his running around, and the hot and cold Jamie P for some cameo appearances. . We don't know if Williams is a loss as he has never played, a bit similar to Walsh at this level. The team is unbalanced, Vyner and Adelakun hardly your first choice in midfield. But it is not a complete rag team. Forget the game today anyway, Norwich are miles off for us (another team we have failed to emulate mind you) , it is the lack of coherence that is shocking. Anyway, relegation should not happen, but if anyone offers a couple of million for Fam , or some token fees for the others out of contract, then a late dash for relegation could yet be possible. Not quite the plan we were told, yes we were told this, not invented, not a fans dream, but the club told us they wanted some fresh ideas to "kick on" for the Prem. 

The club look as confused and rudderless as in all the other awful moments of the past 20 years, and a shameful far cry from the beating heart and passion we had as we won the L1 title and that fleeting glimpse of high octane football during the league cup run. It seems we are completely unable to stop ourselves repeating old errors or able to understand really what made the better moments successful. Holden is not to blame, he should never have been put in a job he is so inadequately prepared for, but do we always have to keep repeating to same old nonsense. The warning signs are there for a very very big problem coming soon. We have seen all this before. 

Excellent post , content and well written 

? 

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not saying it’s easy.  But you build that succession planning so as a player leaves, you’ve already got that player ready, and hopefully ready to make you better.

When Brentford, just as a for instance, sold Watkins they bought a replacement who slotted straight into their way of playing and the Brentford machine rolled on as if nothing had happened.

When we've sold players similarly integral to our way of playing, we've replaced them with ones who can't play the same way, meaning we've got to develop a completely new way of playing to accommodate them. So each season we start from scratch with a new team, new style, and little continuity from year to year. 

When Reid left, his replacement needed to be a mobile forward who would complement Diedhiou, could lead the press, and get plenty of goals. We got Weimann.

When Webster left, above all his replacement needed to be a ball playing centre half. We got Kalas.

No joined up thinking in this recruitment at all. 

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