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BigAl&Toby

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Poor set of accounts.

Poor recruitment.

Poor results.

The only one’s who aren’t are the inept ******* who created this woeful scenario. 

I’ve not got the time, patience or inclination to wade through page after page of PKF carefully constructed accounts. Spent far too many years doing that professionally in the past to know they’ll hide a multitude of sins.

Costs are and have been too high for ages. Money wasted on recruitment and staff who are out of their depth.

Anyone wonder why the Lansdown silver has been sold now? Forget the FFP argument, forget “the model” and forget “I’ve learned from the past”.

Players have left in a failed attempt to balance the books and reduce those costs. Might be that if the overall structure of the Pula model was transparent then we might also see a dividend too........

And player revenue? Reinvested. Oh yes. Let’s look at the signings. Who has really added anything? Improved the squad? Improved results? I’m struggling......

Unless Joe was bought to model a shirt, tap his chest and awkwardly fiddle with his sleeves. Why does he do that? Is the fabric itchy? Are the sleeves too tight?

Meanwhile over in Guernsey the Emperor fiddles. He’s on his spreadsheet analysing. Not the accounts. Not the league table. Not player performance.

Oh know. He’s checking planning guidelines. And property prices. Ashton Vale anyone? Never mind the dog walkers and village green. The Emperor was delighted when they objected. Kerching Jon my old son. We’ve got exactly what we wanted.....

With Lansdown at the top of the tree and all his monkeys looking up at him we’re never making footballing progress.

Thank **** I bought those Division 1 programmes the other day. Nothing like a good old reminisce....

And as for the Emperor? Naked. Stark bollock naked. Has been for years.......

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To a degree yes.

There are however some big positives:

The redevelopment of Ashton Gate 

The training ground 

The lack of external debt 

 

You only have to look at Derby to see that we could be in a much worse position if we didn't have genuinely wealthy owners with the best interests of the club at heart.

 

That doesn't invalidate your points but there are big upsides to set against them.

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"This is The Way" the SL way, see nothing to change that anytime soon, to set in His Ways to change, why should he, his money his club his dream; we are nothing and have no say in anything, we should shut up and just keep buying ST`s

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3 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

To a degree yes.

There are however some big positives:

The redevelopment of Ashton Gate 

The training ground 

The lack of external debt 

 

You only have to look at Derby to see that we could be in a much worse position if we didn't have genuinely wealthy owners with the best interests of the club at heart.

 

That doesn't invalidate your points but there are big upsides to set against them.

The redevelopment of Ashton Gate has come with a price to pay its made us part of something else. Please tell me however how much Ashton Gate Stadium has actually made for us and how much control we have over its money making potential. Its not actually ours is it? we just play there.

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27 minutes ago, glos old boy said:

The redevelopment of Ashton Gate has come with a price to pay its made us part of something else. Please tell me however how much Ashton Gate Stadium has actually made for us and how much control we have over its money making potential. Its not actually ours is it? we just play there.

This has however been the case since ?1996 when in common with most professional clubs we split the club and ground into separate companies so that club insolvency did not necessarily mean the loss of the ground.

The difference now is that the holding companies above those two companies also own other sports clubs.

The football club is receiving far more money from the Lansdown family in the form of equity investment than it would receive if it had full receipt of the income from Ashton Gate so I don't see a cause for complaint there.

 

The question of how wisely that money given to the football club has been spent is a separate issue and I agree with many of the points in the OP.

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18 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

This has however been the case since ?1996 when in common with most professional clubs we split the club and ground into separate companies so that club insolvency did not necessarily mean the loss of the ground.

The difference now is that the holding companies above those two companies also own other sports clubs.

The football club is receiving far more money from the Lansdown family in the form of equity investment than it would receive if it had full receipt of the income from Ashton Gate so I don't see a cause for complaint there.

 

The question of how wisely that money given to the football club has been spent is a separate issue and I agree with many of the points in the OP.

The question also has to be Mr L’s motivation for doing whatever it is he’s done “for us”.

A philanthropist he ain’t. And that’s fine with me. If he’s repaid the £50M LIBOR linked loan to Barclays in a debt equity swap then that’s fine by me. Really it is.

But as I’ve said if all that’s done is piss money up the wall under the guise of Making Bristol Proud whilst he grows his property portfolio then I for one aren’t too pleased about that.

Unless of course we were watching exciting and exhilarating football. Week in, week out.

But we aren’t. Last time I think me and the boy were really excited was watching Bobby score from the penalty spot at the far end.

Once in a Blue Moon? Welcome to the world of Bristol Sport’s vision of BCFC. What was once “our” club.......

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14 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

The question also has to be Mr L’s motivation for doing whatever it is he’s done “for us”.

A philanthropist he ain’t. And that’s fine with me. If he’s repaid the £50M LIBOR linked loan to Barclays in a debt equity swap then that’s fine by me. Really it is.

But as I’ve said if all that’s done is piss money up the wall under the guise of Making Bristol Proud whilst he grows his property portfolio then I for one aren’t too pleased about that.

Unless of course we were watching exciting and exhilarating football. Week in, week out.

But we aren’t. Last time I think me and the boy were really excited was watching Bobby score from the penalty spot at the far end.

Once in a Blue Moon? Welcome to the world of Bristol Sport’s vision of BCFC. What was once “our” club.......

I'd say the intention of making a combined group of sports teams with top facilities and training based upon the model of Barcelona is absolutely philanthropic.

This Bristol Sports concept isn't however a vision to which I subscribe owing to my interest being restricted to the City first team.

I actually don't think it works at all because the sports are so different in their business models; it seems as ill-conceived as John Lewis' stated intention to branch out into social housing.

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We are a rudderless ship under Lansdown. We are going absolutely nowhere.

Yes people say look at so and so, it could be so much worse.........Well it could also be so much better. I dont see any sort of plan. People will say, ah but he is writing off our debt, no! It his mistakes that have got us these losses. So why shouldn't he? Is he not accountable? 

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1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Poor set of accounts.

Poor recruitment.

Poor results.

The only one’s who aren’t are the inept ******* who created this woeful scenario. 

I’ve not got the time, patience or inclination to wade through page after page of PKF carefully constructed accounts. Spent far too many years doing that professionally in the past to know they’ll hide a multitude of sins.

Costs are and have been too high for ages. Money wasted on recruitment and staff who are out of their depth.

Anyone wonder why the Lansdown silver has been sold now? Forget the FFP argument, forget “the model” and forget “I’ve learned from the past”.

Players have left in a failed attempt to balance the books and reduce those costs. Might be that if the overall structure of the Pula model was transparent then we might also see a dividend too........

And player revenue? Reinvested. Oh yes. Let’s look at the signings. Who has really added anything? Improved the squad? Improved results? I’m struggling......

Unless Joe was bought to model a shirt, tap his chest and awkwardly fiddle with his sleeves. Why does he do that? Is the fabric itchy? Are the sleeves too tight?

Meanwhile over in Guernsey the Emperor fiddles. He’s on his spreadsheet analysing. Not the accounts. Not the league table. Not player performance.

Oh know. He’s checking planning guidelines. And property prices. Ashton Vale anyone? Never mind the dog walkers and village green. The Emperor was delighted when they objected. Kerching Jon my old son. We’ve got exactly what we wanted.....

With Lansdown at the top of the tree and all his monkeys looking up at him we’re never making footballing progress.

Thank **** I bought those Division 1 programmes the other day. Nothing like a good old reminisce....

And as for the Emperor? Naked. Stark bollock naked. Has been for years.......

Look, you can either sit at your keyboard and complain or, using your expert common sense business acumen that you lay out above, starting in your bedroom, build up your own multi-billion pound company in Bristol (where spreadsheets will be banned), sell part of it and with the proceeds buy Bristol City from Steve and then run the club using said business/football acumen that Lansdown is obviously missing. 

There is literally nothing stopping you. If silly, naiive, spreadsheet-obsessed, Steve Lansdown managed it, its fair to say any one of us can. And the bonus for you as a common sense business guru, with these property prices that you highlight (kerching) you will be able to turn a nice profit as well as getting City into the Champions League. Cause what has Steve made? Nearly minus 100 million quid? Something like that... nice little earner those property prices. You're onto him - exactly what he wanted...

When Steve took over in 2002, we were flying high in league one with a grotty stadium, terrible academy and school park training ground. Our record player sale was Ade Akinbiyi for around 4m quid. And our record signing was Ade Akinbiyi for a bit more than a million quid. Where has the progress been since then? I, like you, yearn for those days. I've hated seeing our steady progress up the league table and the gradual improved professionalisation of all aspects of our club. 

Please start your business soon and save us from this horrible nightmare.

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1 minute ago, the1stknowle said:

Look, you can either sit at your keyboard and complain or, using your expert common sense business acumen that you lay out above, starting in your bedroom, build up your own multi-billion pound company in Bristol (where spreadsheets will be banned), sell part of it and with the proceeds buy Bristol City from Steve and then run the club using said business/football acumen that Lansdown is obviously missing. 

There is literally nothing stopping you. If silly, naiive, spreadsheet-obsessed, Steve Lansdown managed it, its fair to say any one of us can. And the bonus for you as a common sense business guru, with these property prices that you highlight (kerching) you will be able to turn a nice profit as well as getting City into the Champions League. Cause what has Steve made? Nearly minus 100 million quid? Something like that... nice little earner those property prices. You're onto him - exactly what he wanted...

When Steve took over in 2002, we were flying high in league one with a grotty stadium, terrible academy and school park training ground. Our record player sale was Ade Akinbiyi for around 4m quid. And our record signing was Ade Akinbiyi for a bit more than a million quid. Where has the progress been since then? I, like you, yearn for those days. I've hated seeing our steady progress up the league table and the gradual improved professionalisation of all aspects of our club. 

Please start your business soon and save us from this horrible nightmare.

Smashed it mate

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8 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

We are a rudderless ship under Lansdown. We are going absolutely nowhere.

Yes people say look at so and so, it could be so much worse.........Well it could also be so much better. I dont see any sort of plan. People will say, ah but he is writing off our debt, no! It his mistakes that have got us these losses. So why shouldn't he? Is he not accountable? 

Blimey you will have the Lansdown devotees on full alert and defence mode...

 

 

But spot on , and bloody well said ????????

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17 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

Look, you can either sit at your keyboard and complain or, using your expert common sense business acumen that you lay out above, starting in your bedroom, build up your own multi-billion pound company in Bristol (where spreadsheets will be banned), sell part of it and with the proceeds buy Bristol City from Steve and then run the club using said business/football acumen that Lansdown is obviously missing. 

There is literally nothing stopping you. If silly, naiive, spreadsheet-obsessed, Steve Lansdown managed it, its fair to say any one of us can. And the bonus for you as a common sense business guru, with these property prices that you highlight (kerching) you will be able to turn a nice profit as well as getting City into the Champions League. Cause what has Steve made? Nearly minus 100 million quid? Something like that... nice little earner those property prices. You're onto him - exactly what he wanted...

When Steve took over in 2002, we were flying high in league one with a grotty stadium, terrible academy and school park training ground. Our record player sale was Ade Akinbiyi for around 4m quid. And our record signing was Ade Akinbiyi for a bit more than a million quid. Where has the progress been since then? I, like you, yearn for those days. I've hated seeing our steady progress up the league table and the gradual improved professionalisation of all aspects of our club. 

Please start your business soon and save us from this horrible nightmare.

Rip Van Knowle............time to wake from your slumber.

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2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Blimey you will have the Lansdown devotees on full alert and defence mode...

 

 

But spot on , and bloody well said ????????

Exactly! I've never seen a more beautifully argued version of 'glass half empty'. Spot on.

Yes he writes off debts but if it weren't for all his silly mistakes we wouldn't have any debts like all those other debt-free championship clubs.

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18 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

We are a rudderless ship under Lansdown. We are going absolutely nowhere.

Yes people say look at so and so, it could be so much worse.........Well it could also be so much better. I dont see any sort of plan. People will say, ah but he is writing off our debt, no! It his mistakes that have got us these losses. So why shouldn't he? Is he not accountable? 

This. 100% 

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Assuming we are neither promoted nor relegated (which looks a pretty safe assumption), next season will be our 7th consecutive season in the 2nd tier.  That hasn't happened since Alan Dicks was manager.

A mere FOUR years ago we finished 17th in the Championship, having finished 18th the previous season.  It's not that long ago that we spent 8 consecutive seasons in the 3rd tier (ending in 2007).  Now we are a well-established top half Championship side.  TV commentators keep describing us as a Premier League club in waiting.

Our infrastructure has been transformed in recent years.

Apart from one fluky year under Gary Johnson, we are in a better place than at any time in the last 40 years.

What the ******* hell do you people want????

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7 minutes ago, red panda said:

Assuming we are neither promoted nor relegated (which looks a pretty safe assumption), next season will be our 7th consecutive season in the 2nd tier.  That hasn't happened since Alan Dicks was manager.

A mere FOUR years ago we finished 17th in the Championship, having finished 18th the previous season.  It's not that long ago that we spent 8 consecutive seasons in the 3rd tier (ending in 2007).  Now we are a well-established top half Championship side.  TV commentators keep describing us as a Premier League club in waiting.

Our infrastructure has been transformed in recent years.

Apart from one fluky year under Gary Johnson, we are in a better place than at any time in the last 40 years.

What the ******* hell do you people want????

A shot on target would be nice ?

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15 minutes ago, red panda said:

Assuming we are neither promoted nor relegated (which looks a pretty safe assumption), next season will be our 7th consecutive season in the 2nd tier.  That hasn't happened since Alan Dicks was manager.

A mere FOUR years ago we finished 17th in the Championship, having finished 18th the previous season.  It's not that long ago that we spent 8 consecutive seasons in the 3rd tier (ending in 2007).  Now we are a well-established top half Championship side.  TV commentators keep describing us as a Premier League club in waiting.

Our infrastructure has been transformed in recent years.

Apart from one fluky year under Gary Johnson, we are in a better place than at any time in the last 40 years.

What the ******* hell do you people want????

Right now were an Italian tank....six gears & five of them reverse.

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You've gotta love these 'ranty' threads that bemoan all the cash 'wasted' and lament the losses of millions of pounds of SOMEONE ELSE'S money. In most cases they are the same posters that bang on about lack of ambition or call for a new signing everytime a player has a bad game!!

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These "Doom and Gloom" posts always come out after we've lost a game. I'm very happy with the Lansdowns and wouldn't want to take risks with foreign owners who have wrecked other bigger clubs than us. As for "going nowhere" having watched us in the 90's and most of the 00's mainly in L1 it's good to be established in the Championship which was the original goal when SL took over.

Looking at Bristol Sport the rugby, also owned by SL, is top of the Premier League which suggests he's not totally useless as an owner.

People have to realise the higher we go in the league structure the more difficult it is to progress as the competition is stronger from wealthier clubs, if we go to the Prem eventually then we will reach a point, like say Brighton and Burnley have done, where we've maximised what's possible and probably reached a 'high point' which some on here are going to find difficult to accept. Personally I'd rather be losing more games at this level or above than watching us win regularly in L1 but I think some on here were happier with the latter.

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39 minutes ago, red panda said:

Assuming we are neither promoted nor relegated (which looks a pretty safe assumption), next season will be our 7th consecutive season in the 2nd tier.  That hasn't happened since Alan Dicks was manager.

A mere FOUR years ago we finished 17th in the Championship, having finished 18th the previous season.  It's not that long ago that we spent 8 consecutive seasons in the 3rd tier (ending in 2007).  Now we are a well-established top half Championship side.  TV commentators keep describing us as a Premier League club in waiting.

Our infrastructure has been transformed in recent years.

Apart from one fluky year under Gary Johnson, we are in a better place than at any time in the last 40 years.

What the ******* hell do you people want????

‘Premier League Club in waiting’

Yes - These commentators all have a day to day eye on what happens at our Club , don’t they..... 

 

As for yours and others claim of an established Championship Club - always potentially one season from the end of that

Over the decades we have stalled , choked, lost momentum , stuttered and regressed , and slid back to League One ,

why is this episode , where is the evidence,  that this is likely to be different ?

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As a Club, we couldn't ask for a better owner. How he's developed the Club to what it is now is fantastic...as fans we are very lucky.

He's proven that you can get to be a relatively settled Championship Club, whilst fighting against other Clubs with far more revenue to spend on players, especially now in the climate of FFP.

However...to take it to the next level...let's be honest, we are never going to be promoted via the top 2. We are literally miles off if that.

That leaves the complete lottery of top 6 and fluking it that way.

The problem for me... isn't the players...but the choice of coaches and managers we've had over the years. Some have worked... I think the appointment of LJ was perfect, for the blueprint and to make us established.

However for me...the appointment of Holden and his team was a massive step back. It's another Tinman type appointment. How you expect the poor bloke to improve on what LJ did I have no idea...none of that thinking makes sense. 

We buy decent players...we recruit average coaches. Our youngsters may develop under them...but our more senior players, are they going to feel motivated or learn anything new? 

Imo...we are now led by MA and JL...and MA doesn't want anyone near this club that will rock the boat football wise and undermine his job of making us profit. 

He's got way too much say in this Club imo. 

He's obviously got the power of persuasion and is employing people that will protect him in a round about way. 

Just my opinion...but it's a common theme.

SL did it...now he's employed a person in his same vein. 

We need a football man here...a man with experience that all the players will be inspired by and someone who will tell the likes of MA that they are undermining the progress of the Club by some of their actions and not be scared to do so. 

 

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3 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

To a degree yes.

There are however some big positives:

The redevelopment of Ashton Gate 

The training ground 

The lack of external debt 

 

You only have to look at Derby to see that we could be in a much worse position if we didn't have genuinely wealthy owners with the best interests of the club at heart.

 

That doesn't invalidate your points but there are big upsides to set against them.

Largely agree, but will the new training complex have turnt Engvall, Diony, Brunt et al into Ollie Watkins, Maupay, a.n.other Brentford starlet? Will it transform Deano into the next Dyche? Will any of that which you mention mitigate an injury calamity?

Is it buildings and fiscal competence that we are lacking now, or is people, the right people, where we fall down?

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16 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

‘Premier League Club in waiting’

Yes - These commentators all have a day to day eye on what happens at our Club , don’t they..... 

Perhaps they have something called perspective, something that is sadly lacking on OTIB.  Like most, I don't think DH is the person to take us the Premier League, but I do believe we have the foundations in place once we have the right person (and I was never convinced Chris Hughton was the Messiah either)

As for yours and others claim of an established Championship Club - always potentially one season from the end of that

It's not a "claim", it's a fact that we are an established Championship club.  This is our sixth consecutive season there, the last three (and probably this season) in the top half.  I can't argue against the statement that we aren't always one season from the end of it, except to say it's a completely vacuous statement.  Liverpool, Man U, Man C etc are also potentially one season away from the end of their spell as Premier League clubs

Over the decades we have stalled , choked, lost momentum , stuttered and regressed , and slid back to League One ,

why is this episode , where is the evidence,  that this is likely to be different ?

No-one can predict the future, but we are more stable than we have been for decades, our infrastructure has been transformed, and we are much more professionally run than we have been for a long time (this is essential in modern football, despite the near universal hatred for the "suits", often from the same people who shout their heads off when there's a minor problem with ticketing or the shop or some other way that the club isn't functioning like a well-oiled machine)

 

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1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

I'd say the intention of making a combined group of sports teams with top facilities and training based upon the model of Barcelona is absolutely philanthropic.

This Bristol Sports concept isn't however a vision to which I subscribe owing to my interest being restricted to the City first team.

I actually don't think it works at all because the sports are so different in their business models; it seems as ill-conceived as John Lewis' stated intention to branch out into social housing.

Bristol Sport and its sport village will be impressive but it is not based upon Barcelona. 

Bristol Sport is insular and parochial. Its related to the narrow confines of Bristol. Barcelonas sporting model is one where the teams are their regional representatives. The FC trains tens of thousands of kids at clubs and within schools across the region via networks of coaches. The best go to the academy, the 99.99% get to be part of More than a club. The training mirrors Barcelonas philosophy and kids get to train the Barcelona way via its coaching syllabus working through age appropriate phases. The community can access Barcelona facilities, club coaches can do tours of its  academy and training centres, and learn from its staff. 

I wont do the membership and voting.

Bristol City via its foundation offer coaching in schools at great cost to schools where the schools pay to become partners. It favours the affluent schools. Bristol City's community trust satellite centres offering low cost training around Bristol were shut down by Bristol Sport. Outside of Bristol the club hardly has any network of coaching, scouting and training away from a Somerset development centre coaching kids to feed into the academy at nine. Exeter City have a larger coaching network than BCFC. 

I have visited City's academy due to a family member being a player, but looking and learning from BCFC, well lets say when BCFC are contacted the club were hardly encouraging, meanwhile Man City invite daily junior clubs to their incredible facilities, including junior clubs from Bristol.

A alternative view could be Bristol Sport could be detrimental to aspects of the FC. The focus on other sports does not combat the focus professional football clubs put on the region around Bristol. Bristol City are behind, are playing catch up - Football first and foremost  

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1 hour ago, red panda said:

 

Apart from one fluky year under Gary Johnson, we are in a better place than at any time in the last 40 years.

 

League position-wise....yes.

Financially prepared to cement and improve upon that....no, gone backwards, and have been for two years.  Results have caught up.

All imho ?

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

As a Club, we couldn't ask for a better owner. How he's developed the Club to what it is now is fantastic...as fans we are very lucky.

He's proven that you can get to be a relatively settled Championship Club, whilst fighting against other Clubs with far more revenue to spend on players, especially now in the climate of FFP.

However...to take it to the next level...let's be honest, we are never going to be promoted via the top 2. We are literally miles off if that.

That leaves the complete lottery of top 6 and fluking it that way.

The problem for me... isn't the players...but the choice of coaches and managers we've had over the years. Some have worked... I think the appointment of LJ was perfect, for the blueprint and to make us established.

However for me...the appointment of Holden and his team was a massive step back. It's another Tinman type appointment. How you expect the poor bloke to improve on what LJ did I have no idea...none of that thinking makes sense. 

We buy decent players...we recruit average coaches. Our youngsters may develop under them...but our more senior players, are they going to feel motivated or learn anything new? 

Imo...we are now led by MA and JL...and MA doesn't want anyone near this club that will rock the boat football wise and undermine his job of making us profit. 

He's got way too much say in this Club imo. 

He's obviously got the power of persuasion and is employing people that will protect him in a round about way. 

Just my opinion...but it's a common theme.

SL did it...now he's employed a person in his same vein. 

We need a football man here...a man with experience that all the players will be inspired by and someone who will tell the likes of MA that they are undermining the progress of the Club by some of their actions and not be scared to do so. 

 

I don’t think LJ was the perfect choice.  Inexperienced, track record up for debate, etc.  Put him with a DoF, might’ve been a good compromise whilst he learned the ropes.

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