There may be trouble ahead ?

[headhunter]

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/there-may-be-trouble-ahead-recording-of-live-podcast-post-norwich/ 

In this recording of last night's live Forever Bristol City Podcast we discuss what, save 15 minutes at the start of the 2nd half, another poor performance when only Dan Bentley stood between City and a much heavier, if not unexpected defeat.

Ian gave his view on the Club's latest annual report and accounts with the figures indicating that there could be trouble off the field too.

Is there a master plan afoot here that we know nothing about? Are we just going to let all our OOC players leave, the upside being that we pillage the market in the summer picking up better players from other clubs without having to pay transfer fees but offering better wages in return [a bit like someone is likely to do to us with Fam]

 

 

[archie andrews]

If we got "trouble ahead" then god help most other clubs..... 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, archie andrews said:

If we got "trouble ahead" then god help most other clubs..... 

Exactly. People are shouting off like we are the only club that is going to make a loss this season.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

If we got "trouble ahead" then god help most other clubs..... 

 

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly. People are shouting off like we are the only club that is going to make a loss this season.

It’s not the loss, it’s not FFP.....it’s how the finances will hamstring us going forward together with a transfer market that below the Prem has seen its arse fall through.  Our strategy no longer has the opportunity to sell players at top dollar to cover the waste / cost-base.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Davefevs said:

 

It’s not the loss, it’s not FFP.....it’s how the finances will hamstring us going forward together with a transfer market that below the Prem has seen its arse fall through.  Our strategy no longer has the opportunity to sell players at top dollar to cover the waste / cost-base.

All correct points but to listen to people you would think that we definitely have it worse than most when I simply do not believe that to be the case. All Steve will do is implement yet another change of strategy to "go with the flow". The cost base will decrease significantly, as it will at almost every other EFL club. Transfer Fees and/or Wages have to come down, squad sizes have to be trimmed..........but not only at Bristol City FC is my point. If we aren't selling players at top dollar then Preston won't be and neither will Millwall, or Birmingham, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby County and anyone else you might want to name.

[headhunter]

I was not seeking to suggest we are alone in having financial issues going forward, in fact thanks to Uncle Steve we are better positioned financially than most clubs and can take advantage of their lesser financial situation if we play it right.

[City oz]

1 minute ago, headhunter said:

I was not seeking to suggest we are alone in having financial issues going forward, in fact thanks to Uncle Steve we are better positioned financially than most clubs and can take advantage of their lesser financial situation if we play it right.

The only way we are going to play it right Is if we start winning and get promotion. Alas Steve appointed the wrong manager and not the the right one.

every club will have financial issues and sadly some may not exist season.

with or without covert a club playing in the top two in any football league will create some revenue some  mainly around the live televised events.

Who is now going to pay to watch Bristol City

Steve is not serious as he prefers the egg shaped ball and not the round one. If “uncle Steve “ was serious he would get out the thousands of dollars from beneath his bed and buy some players to help the coach he got on the cheap and chance to save some face 

[Bassomylord]

32 minutes ago, headhunter said:

https://foreverbristolcity.podbean.com/e/there-may-be-trouble-ahead-recording-of-live-podcast-post-norwich/ 

In this recording of last night's live Forever Bristol City Podcast we discuss what, save 15 minutes at the start of the 2nd half, another poor performance when only Dan Bentley stood between City and a much heavier, if not unexpected defeat.

Ian gave his view on the Club's latest annual report and accounts with the figures indicating that there could be trouble off the field too.

Is there a master plan afoot here that we know nothing about? Are we just going to let all our OOC players leave, the upside being that we pillage the market in the summer picking up better players from other clubs without having to pay transfer fees but offering better wages in return [a bit like someone is likely to do to us with Fam]

 

 

Mid table mediocrity awaits

[City oz]

1 minute ago, Bassomylord said:

Mid table mediocrity awaits

If we are lucky 

[Alessandro]

The argument about "well we're better off than others" - I just don't get it. That's not the point:

The argument is are we our best selves? Are we maximising our potential? Are we making the most of our opportunities?

 Yes, other teams accounts will look worse, especially this year, and yes, a loss on a football clubs accounts is nothing new. 

But it's the bigger picture specific to our club...FFP, future transfer kittys. Player contracts. Implementation of the strategy. We're already seeing it trickle onto the pitch and the signs are not good. That directly effects our ability to compete. 

Don't worry, we'll just go again....go again where? Round in circles? Making the same mistakes? 

That doesn't achieve your goals in life, "wait and see"....waste and squander.

[1960maaan]

I think we are in a real 'transition period' for the entire EFL, Prem will always be a Law unto themselves.

Best part of no income from Football,  you can add all the accompanying conference and Ground related activities too. 

With salary caps coming in below Championship level, it can only be a matter of time there is one for the 2nd tier , even though some will fight against it, either in principle or in the level it's set at. 
This will probably lead to lower wages for many, transfer fees are likely to be hit as there is less money sloshing around. Things will get difficult for a couple of years , I think it will take a while for things to settle and to know the value of players and their worth. We may be even more grateful to Lansdown after the next year or so, and who knows, we may be in a better position.

[City oz]

1 minute ago, Alessandro said:

The argument about "well we're better off than others" - I just don't get it. That's not the point:

The argument is are we our best selves? Are we maximising our potential? Are we making the most of our opportunities?

 Yes, other teams accounts will look worse, especially this year, and yes, a loss on a football clubs accounts is nothing new. 

But it's the bigger picture specific to our club...FFP, future transfer kittys. Player contracts. Implementation of the strategy. We're already seeing it trickle onto the pitch and the signs are not good. That directly effects our ability to compete. 

Don't worry, we'll just go again....go again where? Round in circles? Making the same mistakes? 

That doesn't achieve your goals in life, "wait and see"....waste and squander.

Best selves well a big no. Potential an even bigger no. Opportunities,  biggest  joke ever.

[exAtyeoMax]

40 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly. People are shouting off like we are the only club that is going to make a loss this season.

I don't understand your point…people are only concerned with Bristol City because that is the club that people support. What is wrong with being concerned?

[Red Exile]

7 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

The argument about "well we're better off than others" - I just don't get it. That's not the point:

The argument is are we our best selves? Are we maximising our potential? Are we making the most of our opportunities?

This 100%. It's been the question to ask for the past 40 years. The answer has rarely been 'yes'.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I don't understand your point…people are only concerned with Bristol City because that is the club that people support. What is wrong with being concerned?

Nothing wrong at all with being concerned but also put some perspective on it. We are in the same boat as almost everyone else will be and by understanding that any concerns don't go overboard. I also agree with the points about doing the best for ourselves but at least understanding what is happening at other clubs means we won't all be slitting our wrists when next years accounts are issued.

[City oz]

It’s not us the supporters that need to split our wrists. We will obviously show our disappointment though when we finish just below mid table at the end of the season. It should be others responsible at higher levels.

other clubs and their supporters will have and currently have similar worries around finance. However even though BCFC is also suffering financially I believe our destiny is in the hands of the owners of the club.

The biggest disappointment is engaging a yes man as a coach and probably also a money saving exercise by the owners and investors in BCFC at that time.

wins would have still bought some revenue to the club, wins would have built confidence in the players, wins would bring positive comments on OTIB, wins would make sure we live televised matches which we all can watch around the world for free.

Jesus Christ I even wore my City jocks and cider army tee shirt to bed last night and got up at 2.00am in the morning to watch the canaries v the robins. We played like crap and had no ideas. The camera panned on DH when Norwich scored their first goal and you can see defeat in his face. OK we came out quite bright after the break but we lacked ideas and we always looked like loosing. 

 

[Clutton Caveman]

33 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

The argument about "well we're better off than others" - I just don't get it. That's not the point:

The argument is are we our best selves? Are we maximising our potential? Are we making the most of our opportunities?

 Yes, other teams accounts will look worse, especially this year, and yes, a loss on a football clubs accounts is nothing new. 

But it's the bigger picture specific to our club...FFP, future transfer kittys. Player contracts. Implementation of the strategy. We're already seeing it trickle onto the pitch and the signs are not good. That directly effects our ability to compete. 

Don't worry, we'll just go again....go again where? Round in circles? Making the same mistakes? 

That doesn't achieve your goals in life, "wait and see"....waste and squander.

Championship clubs have rejected the salary cap and so the madness will continue

[Numero Uno]

41 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I think we are in a real 'transition period' for the entire EFL, Prem will always be a Law unto themselves.

Best part of no income from Football,  you can add all the accompanying conference and Ground related activities too. 

With salary caps coming in below Championship level, it can only be a matter of time there is one for the 2nd tier , even though some will fight against it, either in principle or in the level it's set at. 
This will probably lead to lower wages for many, transfer fees are likely to be hit as there is less money sloshing around. Things will get difficult for a couple of years , I think it will take a while for things to settle and to know the value of players and their worth. We may be even more grateful to Lansdown after the next year or so, and who knows, we may be in a better position.

I sort of agree with you that we may have stumbled onto something (if it was a plan then nobody at Board level has thought to mention it) in that people seem to be hugely underestimating the medium term effects of Covid on football finances and we might well have a group of relatively cheap players coming to terms with Championship football this season who will be better for it next time round. I think there will be plenty of clubs having to make huge savings next season and in a worse position than us overall.

[Olé]

19 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

That's not the point:

The argument is are we our best selves? Are we maximising our potential? Are we making the most of our opportunities?

Agree, but only one person can meaningfully decide about this, and that's Steve Lansdown and he doesn't give much away - to the extent that he seems patient, perhaps forgiving of whatever story Mark Ashton tells him.

We fans tend to throw round buckets of blame in all direction (SL/MA/DH/players) but for me it comes down to one thing - whether SL and SL alone believes he is getting value from the people and strategy he employs.

• If the answer is yes, then MA has done a good job of selling his progress against the strategic imperatives
• If the answer is no, how does SL get us back on strategy - including dismissing the person overseeing it

If SL is happy, then there is little reason to expect radical change to the agenda. As this is key to City's fortunes, my worry is that the lines of accountability are broken and "progress against imperatives" is misrepresented.

We all see it ourselves with Mark Ashton - on his terms, he's very forward, and great at managing the message. SL is clearly an incredibly successful businessman but has always struck me as more the introverted, listener.

My fear is that the inevitable has happened in that type of relationship, and MA has got SL quietly eating out of his hand. No slight on SL, MA is an elite salesman with the gift of the gab as outbound transfer fees proved. 

But his objective is no more to simply sell players than a Hargreaves Lansdown fund manager's is to simply sell their fund. In both cases those are routine tasks that follow the real strategy of making the right investments.

If SL has understood this, I'd love to see what data MA is showing him that demonstrates success in that strategy.

[Alessandro]

3 minutes ago, Olé said:

Agree, but only one person can meaningfully decide about this, and that's Steve Lansdown and he doesn't give much away - to the extent that he seems patient, perhaps forgiving of whatever story Mark Ashton tells him.

We fans tend to throw round buckets of blame in all direction (SL/MA/DH/players) but for me it comes down to one thing - whether SL and SL alone believes he is getting value from the people and strategy he employs.

• If the answer is yes, then MA has done a good job of selling his progress against the strategic imperatives
• If the answer is no, how does SL get us back on strategy - including dismissing the person overseeing it

If SL is happy, then there is little reason to expect radical change to the agenda. As this is key to City's fortunes, my worry is that the lines of accountability are broken and "progress against imperatives" is misrepresented.

We all see it ourselves with Mark Ashton - on his terms, he's very forward, and great at managing the message. SL is clearly an incredibly successful businessman but has always struck me as more the introverted, listener.

My fear is that the inevitable has happened in that type of relationship, and MA has got SL quietly eating out of his hand. No slight on SL, MA is an elite salesman with the gift of the gab as outbound transfer fees proved. 

But his objective is no more to simply sell players than a Hargreaves Lansdown fund manager's is to simply sell their fund. In both cases those are routine tasks that follow the real strategy of making the right investments.

If SL has understood this, I'd love to see what data MA is showing him that demonstrates success in that strategy.

I suspect Covid will cover a multitude of sins in reality. A justifiable medium term hit. 

The problem is all it takes is one £15m academy player sold in a season or two’s time and MA’s existence has been justified (in their minds at least).

But I imagine we’ll be no closer to the premier league than anytime in the last decade and a half. 

But don’t worry....other teams are worse off lads!!

[Kid in the Riot]

14 minutes ago, Olé said:

But his objective is no more to simply sell players than a Hargreaves Lansdown fund manager's is to simply sell their fund. In both cases those are routine tasks that follow the real strategy of making the right investments.

If SL has understood this, I'd love to see what MA is showing him that demonstrates success in that strategy.

[Bristol Oil Services]

This pandemic has thrown a spanner - and all the "tools in the bag" - in the works of every club (outside of the usual gilded 7 or 8 clubs) and their plans. It seems to me like another watershed moment in football, when things change dramatically and those that adapt first or best will do well, those that adapt slowly or badly, suffer. Like when freedom of contract came in in the 70s, we lost Gary Collier, then we reacted to that. Not brilliantly.

I'd imagine Bristol City have almost always reacted a bit "slowly" to seismic changes in the running of football. 

It's all down to SL how we adapt to this critical juncture. This - precisely this moment - is where "we're lucky to have Steve Lansdown" becomes evident and undeniable, and gives us an edge, is it not?

 

[Rob k]

12 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

He’s a proven striker at This level of played correctly, god knows what we how we have managed to **** it up so badly with him 

[Fordy62]

I think it’s hitting home the job that LJ did for us. 

Yes he sold Webster for 16m profit, but that’s not such an astonishing achievement when you’ve doubled or trebled the playing wage in 4 years. 

The job Holden has got is very much like the job McIness had post Coppell... there’s no financial room left. 

[Simon79]

4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I think it’s hitting home the job that LJ did for us. 

Yes he sold Webster for 16m profit, but that’s not such an astonishing achievement when you’ve doubled or trebled the playing wage in 4 years. 

The job Holden has got is very much like the job McIness had post Coppell... there’s no financial room left. 

He has signed Mawson, Martin, Mariappa, Sessengon, Williams of the top of my head. All of whom would be on decent wages. Also a total swift from our normal transfer activity.  On top of the young players being a year older & successful loan players returning. I think Holden has had it pretty good I’d say. Of course the injuries haven’t helped, but totally different to before I’d say. COYR 

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Championship clubs have rejected the salary cap and so the madness will continue

They have rejected the first proposal at £18m a year and as Karen Brady put it....

£18million-a-season, with a £720,000-a-year limit on each player. That includes tax, agents’ fees, signing-on fees and loyalty bonuses.

This is about £12k-a-week repercussions could be  immense

[Fordy62]

3 minutes ago, Simon79 said:

He has signed Mawson, Martin, Mariappa, Sessengon, Williams of the top of my head. All of whom would be on decent wages. Also a total swift from our normal transfer activity.  On top of the young players being a year older & successful loan players returning. I think Holden has had it pretty good I’d say. Of course the injuries haven’t helped, but totally different to before I’d say. COYR 

Yeh, good point. 

I cannot believe how we keep appointing people who just **** things up. Cotts’ handover was amazing. Now look at the state we’re in. I wonder if SL accepts his continual errors?

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, City oz said:

The only way we are going to play it right Is if we start winning and get promotion. Alas Steve appointed the wrong manager and not the the right one. Steve will probably argue he appointed the right Manager in the immediate situation we are in. You don't have to agree with that and if that was the case it certainly wasn't conveyed to the fans in the right way BUT that will probably be his argument.

every club will have financial issues and sadly some may not exist season. Totally agree.

with or without covert a club playing in the top two in any football league will create some revenue some  mainly around the live televised events. Peanuts compared to 23 matches of lost revenue and the peripheral income around that.

Who is now going to pay to watch Bristol City Many will. For all my frustrations I will renew my season ticket but a drop in sales of between 10-20% given the circumstances around Covid (job losses and health concerns), frustration with performances and people just not missing it is a very realistic possibility.

Steve is not serious as he prefers the egg shaped ball and not the round one. If “uncle Steve “ was serious he would get out the thousands of dollars from beneath his bed and buy some players to help the coach he got on the cheap and chance to save some face. I'm not sure it's a case of PREFERRING the Bears more a case of he gets more bang for his buck and the way he sees it has at least one successful element of his sporting stable. Again you don't have to like or agree with that but bear in mind that with FFP he can't just chuck £50-60m at it on a top Manager who brings in his expensive costing (transfer fees and wages) mates that are too good for Championship level and pretty much guarantee us being promoted (albeit Villa seemed to get away with it where a smaller club like us most certainly wouldn't).

 

[M.D]

Really enjoyed these podcasts of late, thanks for the effort lads..

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

All correct points but to listen to people you would think that we definitely have it worse than most when I simply do not believe that to be the case. All Steve will do is implement yet another change of strategy to "go with the flow". The cost base will decrease significantly, as it will at almost every other EFL club. Transfer Fees and/or Wages have to come down, squad sizes have to be trimmed..........but not only at Bristol City FC is my point. If we aren't selling players at top dollar then Preston won't be and neither will Millwall, or Birmingham, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday, Derby County and anyone else you might want to name.

Absolutely it will impact more than Bristol City.  But how many supposedly stable clubs have an operational deficit of £34m, or costs that are 124% of income?  You are looking at the clubs we tend to call basket case clubs.  Your Preston’s, Millwall’s, Brentford’s etc will be less impacted by Covid, their cost v income “jaws” aren’t as wide as ours...ours have grown out of control imho.  The parachute payment clubs too, as their revenues are vast in comparison.  We’ve seen the likes of Norwich and Bournemouth hold on to their stars this time around.

1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Championship clubs have rejected the salary cap and so the madness will continue

They’ve rejected it at the mo’, because it had a series of loopholes that would make it pointless to implement.  It will evolve into something workable I hope.

52 minutes ago, Olé said:

 

If SL has understood this, I'd love to see what data MA is showing him that demonstrates success in that strategy.

He keeps showing him Player Trading or Profit on Disposal of Player contracts....and hides all the rest!