Davefevs Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Good positive attitude. He's working hard and has looked good in recent showings. I think he's still on curve to develop into a really good player. Probably be starting tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gazred said: Good positive attitude. He's working hard and has looked good in recent showings. I think he's still on curve to develop into a really good player. Probably be starting tomorrow. Hopefully - Me and a friend had a disagreement in the week about HNM, i just don’t see him making it currently, but as i said to him, I’ve been wrong before when i have said this about players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rob k said: Hopefully - Me and a friend had a disagreement in the week about HNM, i just don’t see him making it currently, but as i said to him, I’ve been wrong before when i have said this about players Totally understandable why, he certainly had a period where he looked a bit of a shadow of his former self. He's hopefully now back on the up and still has a few development years to go. Interesting to see how he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 "I feel like I don't really know my body" If there ever was a quote to confirm a thought that the bulking up was done too fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underhanded Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 It's a big decision for a French kid (and his family) to move to a championship club at the age of 18. To then go from being selected fairly regularly in the starting 11, to a period without being in the equation, then back again must need a certain level of maturity and attitude. Certainly, at the age that he is, those kind of psychological aptitudes are what often allows the gifted players to move onto being accomplished performers. I for one really hope he makes it - we'd inevitably sell him, but to get a stellar season or two out of him would be really nice to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludge Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, Rob k said: Hopefully - Me and a friend had a disagreement in the week about HNM, i just don’t see him making it currently, but as i said to him, I’ve been wrong before when i have said this about players Lots were saying that about 23 year old Zak Vyner in the summer and he’s doing ok. HNM 4 years younger so still has time on his side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, sludge said: Lots were saying that about 23 year old Zak Vyner in the summer and he’s doing ok. HNM 4 years younger so still has time on his side. I agree but as far as I’m aware we didn’t pay a hefty old fee for Vyner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludge Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Just now, Rob k said: I agree but as far as I’m aware we didn’t pay a hefty old fee for Vyner Didn’t see where your original post mentioned anything about fees? Just that you don’t see him ‘making it’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, sludge said: Didn’t see where your original post mentioned anything about fees? Just that you don’t see him ‘making it’. My point is that i don’t mind if a player coming through the academy doesn’t quite make the grade but when we are forking out fairly large fees i would want a little more than what I’ve seen so far. However, it’s an irrelevant point really as he’s here so hopefully we will see him kick on, As it’s stands im unconvinced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 Daft as it may sound He will be a better player with crowds back A young player definitely who is definitely helped by support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludge Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, Rob k said: My point is that i don’t mind if a player coming through the academy doesn’t quite make the grade but when we are forking out fairly large fees i would want a little more than what I’ve seen so far. However, it’s an irrelevant point really as he’s here so hopefully we will see him kick on, As it’s stands im unconvinced That’s a different point IMO, and one that I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 53 minutes ago, Prinny said: "I feel like I don't really know my body" If there ever was a quote to confirm a thought that the bulking up was done too fast... ... it would be: "I think I have bulked up too fast" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 I like him, he's got very good potential and could go further in the game at a faster pace than the club will. He needs to be looked after at such a young age and developed by the club for him to fulfil that potential here or he may leave for a lot lower deal than we could get for him. Sounds like he starts against Millwall, hope it's not a defensive role and he has somebody else doing that duty and let him flourish in a non defensive midfield role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: ... it would be: "I think I have bulked up too fast" ? I get you're trying to be a pedant, but him saying that wouldn't have confirmed it either. So, if you're going to be a pedant, do it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 how long is left on his contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sludge Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, Bassomylord said: how long is left on his contract? 3 months rolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Prinny said: "I feel like I don't really know my body" If there ever was a quote to confirm a thought that the bulking up was done too fast... Interesting this. I have thought the same. When he arrived he looked like he had to run around in the shower to get wet, however his natural ability and coaching from Monaco meant he floated around and used great feints and body movement to get away. Was very fleet-footed and quick. Since he bulked up (fast), he has become more cumbersome and looked like he couldn’t get the ball away quick enough. I hope we didn’t do the predictable - “get him big and strong to cope with this league as thats what we think a box to box midfielder should be, and thats easier to coach”. I suspect we did though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said: Interesting this. I have thought the same. When he arrived he looked like he had to run around in the shower to get wet, however his natural ability and coaching from Monaco meant he floated around and used great feints and body movement to get away. Was very fleet-footed and quick. Since he bulked up (fast), he has become more cumbersome and looked like he couldn’t get the ball away quick enough. I hope we didn’t do the predictable - “get him big and strong to cope with this league as thats what we think a box to box midfielder should be, and thats easier to coach”. I suspect we did though. This was my observation post-Blackburn on Covid-return. Another reason to not write the kid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 23 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said: Interesting this. I have thought the same. When he arrived he looked like he had to run around in the shower to get wet, however his natural ability and coaching from Monaco meant he floated around and used great feints and body movement to get away. Was very fleet-footed and quick. Since he bulked up (fast), he has become more cumbersome and looked like he couldn’t get the ball away quick enough. I hope we didn’t do the predictable - “get him big and strong to cope with this league as thats what we think a box to box midfielder should be, and thats easier to coach”. I suspect we did though. Good post Interesting development question Encourage him to bulk up, to give him more physicality or concentrate on his natural assets - As you say about feints , body movement , etc etc. and I’d say great balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: Good post Interesting development question Encourage him to bulk up, to give him more physicality or concentrate on his natural assets - As you say about feints , body movement , etc etc. and I’d say great balance Of its 6 months of subdued development to get his body ready, then fine....if it stifles his career then a disaster. Different beast, but I thought Torres was better before he bulked up for the “demands of the PL”. I thought David James (well before City) was more agile when he was less ripped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: Good post Interesting development question Encourage him to bulk up, to give him more physicality or concentrate on his natural assets - As you say about feints , body movement , etc etc. and I’d say great balance When I played I always had a natural weight, shape and mass I liked, and felt sharp at, and the “knowing my body” comment struck a chord. Its interesting to me because he came here as a 10 or attacking midfielder and we seem to have decided to re-mould him as a box-to-box midfielder. Its always been a pet hate of mine that physicality = good. Yes its important but not needed with the types of players that win you leagues, look at Pablo Hernandez, Benrahma, Buendia the other night. Its all about the right blend. Can’t help but think we should have left alone and let him develop naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Of its 6 months of subdued development to get his body ready, then fine....if it stifles his career then a disaster. Different beast, but I thought Torres was better before he bulked up for the “demands of the PL”. I thought David James (well before City) was more agile when he was less ripped. Yes , and good examples A lot depends on where you see him as a player (Doesnt need to bulk if he’s going to play as an attacking midfielder for example) We arnt in a position to judge but the first thing that struck many of us on first viewing (Remember the posts) was his ‘naturalness’ Fingers crossed the balance is , or turns out to be , right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 22, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said: When I played I always had a natural weight, shape and mass I liked, and felt sharp at, and the “knowing my body” comment struck a chord. Its interesting to me because he came here as a 10 or attacking midfielder and we seem to have decided to re-mould him as a box-to-box midfielder. Its always been a pet hate of mine that physicality = good. Yes its important but not needed with the types of players that win you leagues, look at Pablo Hernandez, Benrahma, Buendia the other night. Its all about the right blend. Can’t help but think we should have left alone and let him develop naturally. Same here. I actually got really, really fit one pre-season, was about half a stone lighter. As a centre-half, suddenly found I couldn’t push strikers around, so put a bit of fat back on purposely. Made a real difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Same here. I actually got really, really fit one pre-season, was about half a stone lighter. As a centre-half, suddenly found I couldn’t push strikers around, so put a bit of fat back on purposely. Made a real difference. I went the other way, I was a full back and gained muscle mass and areas of my game I improved but could not get my passes off and felt slower over 5 yards, just felt out of kilter with my brain. Fitter, yes, but in the wrong way for me. Hard to explain!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said: I went the other way, I was a full back and gained muscle mass and areas of my game I improved but could not get my passes of and felt slower over 5 yards, just felt out of kilter with my brain. Fitter, yes, but in the wrong way for me. Hard to explain!! I’m not a boxing guru but listening to the experts talking about changing weight classes Not too dissimilar to a boxer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunc Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Same here. I actually got really, really fit one pre-season, was about half a stone lighter. As a centre-half, suddenly found I couldn’t push strikers around, so put a bit of fat back on purposely. Made a real difference. I've been taking the latter action every season for years. As the half stones add up there's little chance of any striker pushing me around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said: I’m not a boxing guru but listening to the experts talking about changing weight classes Not too dissimilar to a boxer ? Yes. Just takes a while to get used to as your body reacts differently to how you would expect. I’ll say all this and Holden, Simpson and Downing will turn him into a box-to-box machine, we will sell him for £30m quid to Arsenal and he will captain France to 2030 World Cup Winners! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dunc said: I've been taking the latter action every season for years. As the half stones add up there's little chance of any striker pushing me around! Me too , Probably capable of filling the LCB and RCB roles now At the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Prinny said: I get you're trying to be a pedant, but him saying that wouldn't have confirmed it either. So, if you're going to be a pedant, do it correctly. I think you'll find it was an attempt at humour. You know, a joke. Or have I just laughed out loud by mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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