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Mark Ashton's full interview with the BP


DaveF

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Just now, Sheltons Army said:

Yes a playing philosophy , which you then recruit to

Not a standalone recruitment policy without a playing philosophy

Some do, a manager/head coach who'll slot into how the club operates

head coach vs manager

Focus of youth player development to 1st team

Recruiting young 1st team players who'll be sold upon developing etc

All things that are based on club style rather than on pitch ideas.

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8 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Fascinating interview - Ashton has helpfully opened the lid on a few things here. No surprises as to why we have Dean Holden as our manager:

'we appointed Dean because the debate was do the owners want us to move away from the (trading your way to the top) model? Because ultimately, it’s their business. ‘Do you want us to move away from the model or do you want us to continue as we are? Yes, continue as you are, I want you to get better at what you do, I want you to become more effective at what you do.’

Actually, that reduces the recruitment of a manager or head coach as there are only certain types of head coaches that will work in that way. Some will tell you that they will but they won’t and others just won’t.'

Agreed.  Very interesting interview.  Amazed that so many people in this thread are already accusing him of lying.  It seems that anything that contradicts people’s pet conspiracy theories is automatically dismissed as lies.  Now where have we seen that in the last four years?

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Once again when things aren't going overly great on the pitch whatever MA says he will be criticised as has been the case on this thread, what do people actually want or expect him to say?

 

Reading through the interview there's nothing groundbreaking in there but it is decent enough and he gives his opinion on a number of different subjects, nobody is going to agree with him on every point he makes but thats life. He is just a bloke doing his job and some of the abuse on here is wholly uncalled for.

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Just now, Lrrr said:

Some do, a manager/head coach who'll slot into how the club operates

head coach vs manager

Focus of youth player development to 1st team

Recruiting young 1st team players who'll be sold upon developing etc

All things that are based on club style rather than on pitch ideas.

Sorry But I  think you’ve got Clubs following philosophies all skewed there


You have. A playing philosophy and recruit to that philosophy including head coaches

Save for Crewe, ( who also have a playing philosophy) how many Clubs can you identify that have a vision based around a recruitment policy of buying selling , and producing without a playing style ?

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“We brought in two England experienced coaches with him but they can't coach fully because you can't do 11 vs 11 because you haven't got the time. All you're doing is recovering for the next game..”

Guess that answers the question of what those two bring to the table..

Nothing currently.

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1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

So much for "he only says something when we're winning"

 

Once again it's an interview done during a transfer window...

I get the impression that his hand was forced a bit by that small leak from the Norwich game re: Diedhiou. I doubt he’d have given the interview if that hadn’t happened. 

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Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

I get the impression that his hand was forced a bit by that small leak from the Norwich game re: Diedhiou. I doubt he’d have given the interview if that hadn’t happened. 

He has always given interviews around a transfer window.

It's been consistent since he came in.

Sometimes 2 in the summer (one end of season, one start of season/end of window) and usually one in the winter, again around the transfer window.

This happened when we were on the 23 game winless run under LJ as well.

 

The "he only does an interview when we are winning" is a myth to add an extra thing to complain about MA.

There are valid enough questions to be asked about him without people actively inventing them.

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1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

How do you see the season going? Can Bristol City realistically be promoted this season?

I'm forever the optimist. What are we, six points outside the play-offs? I think this season has been a challenge not only for us but for everybody thus far.

I said at the start of the season we could be extremely competitive and I would expect us to be in competition for promotion.

That hasn't changed and I know we'll cover it later, but I still think that that squad we constructed, had the majority been fit, we would have had more points on the board.

Covid has changed - and the context of covid I feel very difficult to explain to people. We're certainly not moaning to people about it: we are fortunate that our industry is allowed to carry on.

We've got a death rate in this country that is just frightening, just frightening. And people's livelihoods have been affected.

We're fortunate and privileged enough for our industry to continue. You're (Gregor) at the games, we're at the training ground everyday but it's not continuing in the vein that it had.

I think that as an industry - not just as Bristol City - as an industry, the fact that we're getting games away is a massive success in its own right.

We've now moved to twice weekly flow testing. We full tested yesterday ahead of the cup game because that's what the FA and I'm sat here riddled with anxiety that the phone call comes in from Andy Rolls or Gill [Holt, club physio] or whoever because there but for the grace of god, because I've got no idea what's coming down the line.

We had the all clear yesterday, so all players, all staff were cleared. You've (Gregor) been at all the games, I've been at all the games. I would say the best team we've played thus far is Norwich. And if I don't include the game the other night, other than Norwich at home, I think we've been within a hair's breadth of every game. And whoever scores first tends to go on and win the game.

It's gilt-edged chances either side. But I felt there's been nothing in any of the games. Absolutely nothing. We could have won some we could have lost some, but we were right in it.

If we had Mawson, Baker, Paterson, Weimann, Williams, the list goes on, I think we would have been even more competitive and had more points on the board.

Those players are starting to come back. I would hope that we would be more competitive. And we're right in the mix.

On covid, what's the truth on the number of people affected in the November international break? Sky Sports reported more than 15.

I'd need to double-check the numbers but it was 15 or 16. That was a phone call that sent me into a spiral because we tested as normal, then we got the call that there were either 15 or 16 positives. .[DB to check with Rollsy]

You then go into a panic for the health of the people. Who are they? Football becomes secondary at that point. Who has got it? Are they asymptomatic? We have to deal with all of that. Then we go into the Football League protocols, we were fortunate with the timing and the training ground was shut for the best part of a week.

We had one day training ahead of Derby and I thought that was a credit to the staff and players that not only did we get that game on that we went and won the game. The last thing I would ask people for is sympathy. Particularly with everything else that is going on in the world.

But an understanding of getting the testing away, the protocols around the testing, the environment that we're working in... Steve [Lansdown] said something to me the other day: in our lifetime the pandemic is the closest thing to war that we'll probably come across.

We can't eat together, they can only get into the medical facilities in very limited time slots. We can't get into the gym properly. Our [new] training ground doesn't open until March so they're in the outdoor tents: they have their meetings, they change there for work and that's the same for a number of clubs.

 

It's not a look for sympathy, it's just a reality. Travel to games... the games are very uncomfortable in the current climate. The environment is bizarre. We're privileged to play so we get on with it and it's the same for everybody.

You've witnessed it, I wouldn't want to go through the games again without fans.

What do you make of Dean Holden's work so far and his contract is 12 months rolling so we can assume it will roll over to next year?

Yes, it's standard in the industry. It's a fairly standard contract. And it just continues.

I think Dean has done what we thought he would do. I feel for him at times because he hasn't had the normal environment.

He hasn't had a normal summer of recruitment and in fairness to Dean he's managing the previous manager's squad and might want to shape it in his own way.

We brought in two England experienced coaches with him but they can't coach fully because you can't do 11 vs 11 because you haven't got the time. All you're doing is recovering for the next game so he's good to work with, he's sensible and logical, the relationship with the players remains really good but like every club he has problems getting his games away, and

I think if you looked at other managers in the league that you deemed to have experience then he's done alright. He's done well.

He's done exactly what I would have expected him to do.

Let's move on to transfers: Kasey Palmer moved from Chelsea and presumably for a big fee and big money but has then gone on loan again after City loaned him previously. How do you explain that?

We get things wrong and we get things right at this football club. But the one thing I think we've been fairly successful at is player trading and a number of clubs in the Championship talk to us about how we achieve what we achieve and how we construct deals, both in and out of the club.

No player comes into this football club or leaves this football club without the manager or the head coach approving it. We are really fortunate with Steve.

When we sell players, Steve has never once said to me or any manager while I've been here "you've got to sell him, take that, get him out, I want you to buy..." He doesn't, he doesn't. I give him respect for doing that.

So we had Kasey on loan, Lee was really clear he wanted to sign Kasey Palmer so we did what I believe is a smart deal, or an effective deal, to bring him in. We bought Kasey in and, with respect, it's then over to the head coach.

It's your player, you wanted him, that's how you're going to play him, get on with it. He was in and he was out of the team. At the end of last season, when we sat down with Dean and said what are we going to do with shaping of the squad, Dean felt he had a lot of players.

So Dean sat down with me, 100%, and said I want to move Sammie Szmodics. We, at that point, knew we had interest from a couple of clubs so we had dialogue with the board and with Steve.

At that point, and only at that point, does it come to me to go and then get the best deal that I can for Bristol City. Kasey Palmer, Dean said "this is how my midfield's going to shape up, this is how I'm going to shape the team, I've got an excess of players, I'd like to loan Kasey out."

As soon as he said that, it's my responsibility to go out and find the best loan I can for Kasey Palmer. Remember we saw this a little with Pato when we loaned him to Derby. Pato went away, came back and in fairness, I had a virtual coffee with Pato a couple of weeks ago and Pato benefited from that time away.

 

Personally, I'm hoping that Kasey does the same thing. He hasn't played a ton of football for Swansea so Dean said to me and to the board, 'I'm looking at January, I want to bring Kasey back.' Kasey was delighted to come back, he seems as happy as Larry and I think his first couple of performances have been really positive.

But there comes a point where... there's almost a perception that Ashton signs the players, Ashton picks the players. You must be joking! I don't see enough games. We have a recruitment team and the head coach is involved at stage one with the recruitment team. So any names on the list that he doesn't like, it comes off at that point.

So when they present players to him, the manager has been part of that process all the way through. He has the right of veto at any point, any point. I reiterate, Steve is brilliant because he never once says 'you've got to buy him, got to sell him' - it just doesn't work like that.

Kasey's back in and I'm excited. I want the best of Kasey Palmer because he can affect games. We've only got positive things to say about Kasey. I think it's fair to say that his permanent career with us has been stop, start. He's in, he's part of the squad and let's get the best out of him.

What about the argument about strengthening a rival though, particularly one who looks like they're going to be up there close to being promoted? And what about Korey Smith, who's obviously a bit of a Bristol City legend but is now helping Swansea to go up?

I think you can worry about rivals too much. I think managers can do that at times. You play a team and you've got to match up against them, not just Bristol City but across the board. Just focus on yourselves, look at yourselves and concentrate your energy onto trying to get ourselves right.

Korey was an interesting one. I would class Korey as a friend as well as a former colleague. He'd had some injury problems in the last year or so of his contract. But again, it came down to the end of the season. I was talking personally to Korey all the way through the back of last season - let's get to the end of the season and let's breath and see where we're at.

He was first class in all of that. The conversation was with Dean - Dean, if you want to keep Korey Smith, tell us and we'll re-engage with Korey Smith. No, I want to sign Joe Williams, I want Joe Williams, I want Liam Walsh... We've got Tyreeq [Bakinson] coming through, we've got Morton coming through... That's fine.

I went and said to Korey, we're going to go a different way. Good luck to Korey, by the way. So there comes a point as CEO where I have no involvement with team shape, how we play the team. My job is to make sure that the team structure of the recruitment department is there, they're working effectively with the manager and his staff and they're bringing the names forward that he either wants or doesn't want and then we can progress and get the contractual piece done.

I know sometimes there's a perception that Ashton does this, Ashton does that. I don't - there's people in place to do that. My job is to get the best people in place to support the manager. I follow a philosophy and, if you like, a financial strategy that Steve sets out and work within those parameters.

But no player, and I hope Lee [Johnson] would tell you this, has ever come in or left the club without the manager going 'yes, we've got to do that, or that's the right thing to do.' That's just how we work.

Joe Morrell left the club in the summer. I don't know if you saw but in one of the fan podcasts, One Stream in Bristol, they had his dad on and he said that we will never know if Joe Morrell was good enough for Bristol City because he didn't get enough chances in the league. What do you think of that criticism? It was also reported that he was only sold for £300,000 - I know you can't divulge specifics on deals but can we assume that it was more than that...

When I first came to the club, Joe was on his way out. There were conversations that he was going to the USA, and he wasn't good enough for us. In fairness to Lee and Brian Tinnion at that point of time, they both said 'no, I want you to do a different type of contract with him to give him another opportunity.' Again, mine is not the football opinion - 'yes, that's fine.'

So Brian and Lee said 'keep him.' So he was in and he was out and again, it goes back to what I said. Once I've done that piece, it's up to the head coach and their staff as to who they play and who they don't play. What happened in the summer was again we sat down with the squad and we looked at what we want. Joe came to us and his representative came to us and said 'he's getting older now, he's not a kid'.

'If he's not going to start for Dean, then we'd like him to move and we'd like him to go and have a career elsewhere.' I stalled it at that point and I slowed this deal right down because I said to Dean, 'breathe, look at what you've got, see where we're at and if at that point, it's still your position that...'

Dean was saying to me 'let Joe go, this is the makeup of my midfield, I think it's time for him to go and have another career, we've got these youngsters coming through now.' So that's what we did.

I'm not going to talk to you about fee but if we've done anything well at this football club it's get good fees for players. We know our market. I know the market. We had one club that was willing to take Joe Morrell - we know the market at that level and at that point of time. That's an area that's my responsibility.

So whatever we take for any player, firstly does not get done without Mr Lansdown saying 'yes, do it' because everything goes up to him, but I think that's an area that we have been successful. I think it's fair to say that is really recognised in our industry because clubs come to us and are astounded sometimes on the level of fees we manage to achieve.

I saw Joe at the Luton game, he was in the Director's bar socially distancing. We had a good laugh for five or ten minutes. Again, I get on really well with Joe, he's a really good kid and Bristol through and through, but it was just time. When a head coach says to you 'no, I want to move him' then I have to find the best deal that I can.

On the clubs you mention there, are you talking fellow Championship clubs or clubs lower down the league or foreign clubs?

Championship clubs. Championships clubs will talk to us all the time about our model and say 'From a trading perspective, how did you do this? How did you identify him? How did you do that with Webster?' etc. We're not perfect, let's be clear, we're not perfect. There's things that we do well and there's things that we could do far better.

If you look at our numbers over the last two or three seasons, I think some of the fees that we've got for some of our players have been strong.

Moving on to Adrian Mariappa - not necessarily the signing of him because I think people will recognise why that was to cover certain positions - but more the longer term trend of every year for the last three years, Bristol City have been in the position where they've needed to bring in a free transfer signing - Ashley Williams the year before or Stefan Marinovic briefly the year before that. What do you say on that because some will read that as possibly the club either not having the squad to compete with originally each year or secondly, it's a weakness in the squad every year that these players are coming in because others are constantly injured?

We'll talk about the injuries in a bit but up until this season, injury-wise our record has been really good. We'll talk about some of the rehab stuff in a minute. It's partly down to how we've operated and we have to review everything. Covid exposes everything so everything has to be reviewed under Covid-19. So if you look at each of those..

Ash Williams, who did really well for us, was a consequence of Webster going so late [in the summer transfer window]. The reality of what should happen and as Steve consistently reminds me, is that: a left-back gets injured, Pring comes in, Nurse comes in. However, to develop those two players, we put them out on loan. The problem we’ve got is that we can’t recall them, unless I send them to non-league, quickly enough to get them in. We had this with Lloyd Kelly. There was a big debate on Lloyd Kelly’s development. Does he stay in and develop with us? Do we loan him out to get in the games as Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan and others did in their early careers? Or do we keep him in?

I remember that debate was…There was an argument that the best pathway to his development was to go and get him 30, 40 games and then bring him back. However, was that the right thing for Lloyd as an individual and it meant we hadn’t got cover at left-side centre-half and left-back.

So we all took the decision in the end to keep him in and protect ourselves. At that time, that balance between getting the lads out on loan – and remember, these young lads are kicking our door in to go because they want to play. The U23s football is great but it’s not league competitive football and they want to then come back and play for Bristol City.

So Ash was Webster and a late sale. What people won’t know so much is how we tried to keep Webster and how many clubs came in for him. The others that you’re talking about, I think it’s a fair question, were short term patches and we do track, weekly, those players out of contract in case we have a problem, because our youngsters are out on loan and we’ve needed to do that. It’s simply been a short-term patch.

This summer’s interesting. [Adrian Mariappa] Mapps is an interesting one. Mapps is a good player and a real top-drawer person around the squad. But he will tell you that he had offers in the summer that he turned down because he probably didn’t understand where the market was. There’s a number of players who started the season without clubs this season. So I was delighted, as Dean was, to get the services of Mapps in the door for what he brings.

In an ideal world, let’s be really clear, you wouldn’t do it. But needs must and if you have to dip into that market, you have to. But ideally, I wouldn’t want to dip into it but we do track it in case we have to.

By the same token, Rene Gilmartin. He was announced a couple of years ago as a player signing with Tommy Rowe but hasn't played at all...

One of my jobs as a CEO is to identify and recruit talent, not just on the pitch but also off the pitch. I was introduced to 'Reg' [Rene Gilmartin] as a potential coach moving forward, someone who talked the Bristol City language, was very progressive, very bright and was coming to the end of his playing career. So when I met with him, in fairness to him, he was outstanding. I asked him to meet Lee at that point in time and Lee came back and said ‘wow, this is a bright guy.’ He was stuck a little bit between ‘do I finish playing, do I finish coaching, once I finish playing I can never go back and I want to maximise the most.’ He’d got offers from other clubs on the coaching front.

So we took him in. We brought him in as a player, if you like, but it was always the plan to transition him into a coach and he was third, fourth goalkeeper choice, although he’ll tell you in his head that he was good enough to start. He’s been great. When’s he trained, he’s trained and he’s been great. But the reality was to transition Reg into the coaching staff and the technical staff.

What we’ve done over the last year is we’ve moved him away from the playing side. He’s still there and can play if he wants. You’ve seen him, he’s in great shape. But the reality is we’ve exposed him to different areas of the technical side, the U23s, the U18s, the academy, the first team, me. So I foresee a future in that side for him.

So whilst we took him as a back-up goalkeeper, let’s be really clear, that was done with the clear identification that he was talent on the technical side. He presents himself and the club outstandingly. You heard him on Robins TV – he was fantastic. He’s working with Ireland – we’ve allowed him to go and do that because that opens the door to all the Ireland recruitment. He’s a good guy and a very, without wanting to make him blush, bright young man who I think will have a really big future on the technical side of the game.

Bristol City’s Petr Cech maybe? Someone who is there if needed with many players out...

He’s got a lot of cards in his deck and he’s bright, he’s a good communicator and he’s hungry to learn and when you come across people like that, if you have an opportunity to bring him into the organisation, I think you should. I understand why people…

This is my biggest frustration. This is one of the biggest frustrations of my job because I’d love to talk to the fans every day and bloody tell them, this is what’s happening, this is why we’re doing this, this is why we’re doing that. I can understand their frustration because they just won’t be able to know. But there is so much that compromises us if we do.

But I just wish I could get the fans to see through my eyes, almost, on what happens. We don’t get things right all the time – no one does at any club. But we wake up every morning trying to do the right thing for the club and the right thing in the way the Lansdowns have told us they want their vision for the club.

On Famara Diedhiou: he can leave on a free transfer in months and as a former club record signing it would be pretty damaging to see him depart for nothing, wouldn't it?

I don't think it would. There's nothing more I'd like than for Famara to sign a new contract with this football club. I brought him in, let's be clear. We’re the ones who sat by his side when he had the accusations of spitting. We’re the ones who took him to Wembley and sat with him and defended him [in the FA hearing].

Every time we're at the training ground he's tried to teach me bad French since the moment I met him!

He has some things to sort out with his representatives. We made him an offer at the back end of the summer. That was one of the biggest contract offers that this football club has ever made to a player. Ever.

We've offered all sorts of deals: long and short term, but we've not heard back yet.

So what Steve [Lansdown] has said to me is - and this is where Steve is really good - is when I've said 'do you want me to market him' or 'do you want me to sell him?' Steve has said no.

Steve has said to me, if Famara is on the books until the end of the season, get the value out of him on the pitch and if he moves on a free, then so be it.

All through COVID-19, Steve has said 'the club is not to be held to ransom for anybody'. 'I will stand financially behind the club'. If you get an offer for any player, bring it to me, bring it to Dean, we will discuss it and if it's the right thing for the club we'll do it.

'You're not to be pressured into selling assets cheaply because of covid'. He said he's got the club, and that's first class.

I can't say that we won't get an offer for Famara. I can't. But what Steve won't do to us is that we have an offer in the last hour of the window and we're in a mess.

We have too good an owner to do that. We can't force a player to sign. We're experienced to do deals.

And I've got no issue with Fam. I've spoken to him directly on a number of occasions, because that's what we do - we just sit down and talk about it. There's nothing more we can do.

I say to Dean: 'you deal with the cards that you've got. You play the hand that you've got'. So if Famara's here for 5, 25 or 105 games, if you deem him right for selection you play him and you get on with that. And he's [Dean] fine with that.

Dean's not had an ounce of an issue with Famara on the pitch. As we sit here today the club are not clear on what his representatives want to do.

Should Bristol City still play Famara if he won't sign a new deal?

100 per cent. Dean's call. That sits with the manager. As long as the manager is happy with the attitude and the effort and the energy then absolutely. That's my opinion and that's what Steve has said.

Let’s move onto injuries, then. I was talking to someone from Sky Sports recently and we worked out that Bristol City has the worst injury record from the top two divisions of late. We made it equal with Huddersfield in the Championship. Obviously, it’s an extraordinary season and we know with the close proximity of games, tissue injuries are on the rise. Why has Bristol City suffered more than other clubs?

Your key word in that, and the context, is of late. The last thing I’m going to do is come on here and make excuses. I think we bolstered the medical and performance departments around 18 months ago now and I believe we’ve got good people, we’ve got extremely experienced people in those departments.

I think that’s been backed up by last season – the likes of Benik Afobe wanting to stay here and rehab here which the team did really well and managed with the extension of the season and Covid to get him back playing.

Alfie Mawson saying this week about his successful rehab… The season before, Adam Webster got a hamstring injury at Hull in the last game of the season. That was the only hamstring injury we got in the season!

We’ve been hit this season which has shocked all of us. The honest answer is I don’t think there’s one single thing I could say it’s because of. If there was, I’d go and deal with it. If I changed all my medical and performance team tomorrow and brought in another medical and performance team, I’m not sure fundamentally what they would do any differently. Like anything, we review anything all of the time and when things don’t go according to plan, you have to review it and you have to look at it and you have to peel the layers of the onion back to try and find out what’s gone on.

You are right, soft tissue injuries are up across the league. Every injury we’ve had has been different. The context of is that I think the performance team have done really well just getting the games on with the covid protocols, setting the protocols. It was my performance team that wrote those protocols with the EFL in the summer, last season, to get these games on.

The reality of is there’s no single thing. The facilities play a part. We can’t fully use the medical rooms. Covid hit us as a club worse than anyone else because we were months from going into the new training ground, whereas the Bears were months ahead of us and managed to get in just before covid. That has assisted them.

If you think of simple things like where you rehabilitate players in water. We haven’t been able to get into a pool since whenever. The players aren’t in the gym as they would normally do. We’re having to adapt. I go back to Steve’s words: ‘Mark, this is as close to war as you’re ever going to get as a nation.’ So we’re having to adapt. We’re having to adapt the training because we’re not coaching. We’ve had to look at the time that they’re training, the loading in training. We have to look at our communication as a performance team, the travel to games, the quantum of games.

Andi Weimann who does an ACL and who’s never ill, never misses a day’s training. When we’ve had a hamstring, it hasn’t been a two or three week hamstring, it’s been a 12-week hamstring.

Are there things that we could do and that we change and adapt to do things more effectively and can we learn from this? Absolutely we can and we have to because that is what we should do. But there isn’t one specific thing.

I saw, or I was told about the Joe Williams' comment. Is Joe unhappy with his rehab? No, I don’t think he is. He’s just frustrated. Now has his rehab and his injury – and remember he got injured early – gone in a straight line? No, it hasn’t. Has a multitude of those things affected that? Yes, and I can understand his frustration by the way.

Liam Walsh is really simple. He had a nasty injury and you try and rush and beat Mother Nature she will bite you in the bottom and win every single time. I’ve spoken to the specialists and I’ve seen the specialists’ reports on Walshy and they’ve all said exactly the same thing – you rush this at your peril. You just can’t do it. It’s healing slowly, it’s healing but you’re going to have to give it the time it needs. The specialists couldn’t really put a timescale on that.

I think the Joe Williams one has been really frustrating for everyone. He’s back onto the grass and touch wood, he won’t be far away. But getting players battle-hardened and conditioned, ready for the games, is very difficult for every single football club because one, you haven’t got your normal facilities and two, you haven’t got the time and preparation to do that and three, everyone is trying to do the same thing. You’re trying to get them back quicker with no break. It’s actually a bit of several different things that have caused us the problems. Now, we’ve got to learn from that and learn pretty quickly and adapt.

We don’t have a blame culture at the football club because we’re all in this together. My job is to review it and find out what’s gone wrong and how we could be better and that’s what we do. There’s no one single thing.

But again, with the performance team and it’s easy to say this in hindsight, if you spoke to Alfie Mawson, he’ll tell you that they’re great. You speak to Benik, he’ll tell you that they’re great. If you speak to Joe, ‘I’m frustrated. I’m not frustrated with individuals, I’m just frustrated’ and I can understand that.

But hopefully, we’re coming through the other side of it.

On the performance team, how do they see things themselves?

When you work with professionals of that ilk, they’re the biggest critics in themselves. They are always looking to do better. They beat themselves up but whether that’s me or my team, whether that’s Dean and his team, whether that’s the performance team, whether that’s operations and travel, the fitness of the player is impacted by everything and everyone. The good thing with the staff that we’ve got is you don’t see my staff throwing people under the bus, they work together and that’s what it’s about. That’s what it’s about as a country right now because we are in a pandemic and we’re trying to keep our industry going, get the games and win, rightly so, on the way through.

But we don’t look for sympathy, we continually review the processes and what we do and we adapt in challenging times. But I won’t hide away from the fact that the injury record has been extremely frustrating.

 

Moving on, where does the club stand on the discussion around the £18 million wage cap that was mooted in the media recently?

We support it. I’ve been one of the drivers at the EFL and I’ve sat on working parties and pushed this hard. You will have seen in the national press a group of clubs that don’t want it. That’s fine. But I believe that the majority do, having spoken to the majority.

Now look, whether it ends up at the £18 million or that number is there or there about, there are a number of nuances that sit around this. One, we have to have agreement with the Premier League because part of our solidarity agreement is the profit and sustainability rules. So we have to debate with them.

Why do I believe it? I believe two things should happen. Project Big Picture, which Rich Parry talked about with the EPL, should… In some shape of form, there needs to be a softer landing between the Premier League and the Championship. The gap, I think, is too big and it puts clubs at risk.

The parachute payments are in place for one thing. The parachute payments are in place to help clubs to transition between the Premier League and the Championship, ie, to soften the blow on existing contracts that were made in the Premier League. The challenge is what some clubs have done is to use that parachute payment in the Championship to go and buy expensive players on big contracts and then not get re-promoted.

So I think there should be a review of that gap between the Championship and the Premier League but that is no good. It is no good and putting one penny more into the Championship if you don’t bookend it with salary cap protocols because all that will happen is that one pence more will go to players and agents and the financial losses of clubs will simply get bigger.

The nuance in what salary cap protocols need to be further debated and we need to get to a conclusion. I believe we need live reporting because that then takes away the legal cases that you’ve seen and late deduction of points and appeals etc. If you’re on a salary cap, it’s live reporting and once you’re at the salary cap, at the point of registration, you can’t sign the player. So actually, you can’t breach it.

But I think we need to look at sustainability. We’re beyond fortunate at this club to have the Lansdowns who built training grounds, built stadiums, stand behind the cash losses but the world will run out of Steve Lansdowns. We have seen in our industry in this year a handful of Championship clubs not paying salaries. We’ve seen one Championship club now down at the bottom end of League One and in administration. We’ve seen Championship clubs drop into League One and can’t get back because they’ve rolled the dice and I think as an industry, we’ve got to find a way to reduce those losses and be more sustainable.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t pay players well, by the way, but we need to have some firm checks and balances in place which means we can bring more revenue in, we can control salaries at the other end and if clubs do then start to make a profit, it can get invested into facilities, academy, community. Then we have a different industry.

The devil is in the detail but I’m passionate about it. There are a number of Championship owners and CEOs – Steve supports this as well – who are passionate about this type of model.

Do you think that that’s likely at all? Is it possible that anything could happen?

I think the Championship clubs will vote. Let the clubs decide and at the moment, the debate and discussion that I’ve had with clubs…the devil is in the detail but I think there’s a willingness in a large number of clubs to want to move to that kind of model.

The Premier League is committed to looking at reform anyway...

Correct, so it all becomes part of that debate.

Just to clarify, the club was in favour of Project Big Picture?

Listen, whether it’s Big Picture or not, we support the principle that the gap between the Premier League and the Championship needs to reduce whilst controlling costs at the other end.

 

Are the club looking to recruit in January? If they strengthened now they could go on and challenge.

It's fluid. We've looked at two loans from Premier League clubs this January but injuries have ruled them out. If we can find the right one we'll look at it but you can be 9/10ths down the line on a deal and the smallest thing changes and it falls away.

So we have options but those have got to be right. We're not saying we won't bring anyone in, then we'll look at it.

I don’t know if you saw Lee Johnson’s article in the Coach’s Voice which was a great article. He reviewed his time at Bristol City in great detail, he gave his honest opinion in it.

He was kind to me!

One of the things that caught my eye is he believes that Bristol City over-traded in the last couple of years…

It’s interesting. I’ll go back to where I started. No player comes in, no player goes out without the head coach saying yes. It just doesn’t happen.

The challenge that we have is the coaching staff have been really successful and deserve credit – and Dean’s part of this, Lee’s part of this, Tinns is part of this, others are part of this, recruitment and identification are part of this – on developing talent. They’ve been really good at it.

When I came into the club, there was a thought process from some that some of the younger players that we’d got probably weren’t going to be good enough. Lee was adamant, ‘no, we’ll turn them into some of the best in the division’ and in fairness to him, he did. Dean played a massive part in that as well and so did Andy Rolls and the performance team.

The problem in doing that and what the fans won’t realise is we’ve turned down umpteen offers our players from Championship clubs. It’s rare that we sell to Championship clubs but Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan, Webby – all big offers from Premier League clubs. All three of those players knocked on my door and said ‘Mark, I want to go. It’s nothing negative about Bristol City. I have an opportunity to earn huge amounts of money, far more than they would at Bristol City because I’m going into the Premier League, I want to do it.’

What the fans won’t realise: let’s talk about Adam Webster. We took Webster for a sensible fee. He was both tactically and physically built. Lee tactically and physically built him with Dean and the performance staff. Andy Rolls physically built him off the pitch. We turned down in excess of £15 million from a Premier League club, not the one he went to. Steve was brilliant – ‘no, not taking it.’ We were in the USA in pre-season, Webby came and saw me. ‘Wow, this is the Premier League!’ ‘No, you’re not going, you’re not going, turn it down.’ Brighton then came in. To start with, Webby sat in my office and I told him ‘you’re not going.’ He wasn’t a problem. Webby said ‘ I want to go.’ We said no. The offers increased – I’m not going to say to what, I know there’s things in the press to work out what that is - but the fundamental changing point was when the player was absolutely adamant to myself and the head coach ‘I want to go’. His representative said ‘We want to go. It’s nothing to do with Bristol City, we’re not going to miss this opportunity.’

At that point, we had a debate – myself, the head coach and Steve, because nothing happens at that level without Steve signing it off, by the way – what do we do? We all looked at each other in the eye and reluctantly, and it was reluctantly, we’re going to take what was the record fee in for the club and we’re going to move him in.

The same happened with both Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid, by the way. The season before, we sold Aden Flint. We had a Championship club offer us a lot of money and we said no. Steve was brilliant and said no. We eventually sold him to Middlesbrough for far more.

One, we’ve never sold a player without the head coach saying yes, it’s the right thing to do. Whether the quantum of those players moving out at that period of time has been too much or too less or just right, actually gets driven by the market because I’m not sure what else we could have done at that moment in time when those players were very clear to us – they weren’t rude or disrespectful to Bristol City at all – but they wanted to go and earn far more money at a Premier League club and play Premier League football.

 

We’ve almost been a victim of our coaching success at developing those players. Brownhill was similar. We turned down offers for him but in the end, the only way Nahki came in was for Browny to go out and financially we got the upside of that. But again, at that point, Josh said ‘ I feel like I’d like to go now, I’ve come here and done my best, I love the club but I can earn A, B, C in the Premier League and it’s time to move on.’

It's really difficult, it’s really difficult. But again, what I would say to supporters is what they don’t see is the amount of deals we turn down for players and credence has to be given to the owner because the easiest thing for him to do would be to take the money and at times, he says no.

I’d like to keep all of our players all the time. I know we’ve got a reputation for wanting to trade but we’d all want to keep them all the time.

Marlon Pack - a great servant to the club and someone else I’d class as a friend – but let’s be really clear, it was the head coach who knocked on the door when I told him we’d had an offer and said, ‘I think you should take it.’

We’re not the kind of club that forces players on or forces managers to sell. I can look back and look you in the eye and say that the Lansdowns have never ever done that whilst I’ve been here.

Do you honestly think that Bristol City can be promoted, trading their way to the top, because when you look at it, there’s probably only been Sheffield United who’s gone up in the last few seasons whereby they haven’t had any parachute payments. I think people see Bristol City in the little group of clubs along with the likes of Preston, Millwall and Brentford, who’ve never been in the top league, never had parachute payments, so they have that financial disadvantage, all trying to do it the same way and trade their way up. Brentford is the one that everyone looks to although they haven’t done it yet…

One, I do think it’s doable and two, this is the model that our owners want us to pursue. Even doing this model, they put money into the club. We’ve got to become more effective at doing it, we’ve got to become better at doing it.

That was part of the discussion, if I’m honest with you, when we appointed Dean because the debate was do the owners want us to move away from the model? Because ultimately, it’s their business. ‘Do you want us to move away from the model or do you want us to continue as we are? Yes, continue as you are, I want you to get better at what you do, I want you to become more effective at what you do.’

Actually, that reduces the recruitment of a manager or head coach as there are only certain types of head coaches that will work in that way. Some will tell you that they will but they won’t and others just won’t.

I do think it’s achievable. I go back to it – are we perfect? No. I think we get more decisions right than we get wrong or have done in the last four and a half, five years. We’re now a fairly consistent top ten Championship club who needs to break through the glass ceiling to the Premier League.

We’ve built what I think is a, and what you sit in every week, world-class stadium. I can’t wait to take people and show you the training ground because that’s not standard, that’s world class. Again, the Lansdowns have been phenomenal. In Covid, we’ve had no income in nine, ten months. Neither has rugby, neither has basketball, we’ve had no concerts, we’ve lost all the non-matchday revenue. It has really financially hurt. But did they say stop on the training ground? They said ‘ no, carry on and build it.’ It’ll be finished in the next five or six weeks. I think when you see it, I’m hoping you’ll go ‘bloody hell’ because it’s impressive.

That takes us to the next level of that helps us recruit players, that helps us develop the academy talent, the Antoine Semenyos, the Taylor Moores, the Zak Vyners. Because Steve’s adamant that that’s the next level of the club and that’s the way they want to see it develop.

Without parachute payments, you are at a disadvantage but you’ve also got to spend those parachute payments wisely because if you don’t, you end up in a world of trouble. I’ll go back to we’ve seen clubs these year not paying salaries, big clubs right at the bottom of our division, big clubs in League One, big clubs going into administration. You get none of those shenanigans with this club and fundamentally, that’s down to the Lansdowns.

With Matt Beard, you’ve obviously been involved with his recruitment but he’s got a lot on his plate with Bristol City women as they’re bottom of the table…

Yeah it is and it’s a challenge with us being in the Women's Super League because let’s be clear, we’re over-punching our weight. The women’s game concerns me because unless you’re a men's Premier League team with men's Premier League revenue, it’s very hard to compete. We’ve substantially increased our contribution this year again and I mean, substantially increased.

The numbers have just gone away again so we’re always behind the curve. Matt’s coming in, he’s bullish, I quite like him. He’ll pick up on the work that Tanya’s done in challenging circumstances and let’s see where we go. It is tough.

@BigTone can you do your normal summary please?

I’ve been up the allotment planting my garlic and I’m now in an Epsom salt and tea tree bath. Not got the time to listen or read - summary would be good though. Ta.

And to all those I’ve amused or confused with my posts about Mr L. I apologise. Profusely. With a 3-0 win under our belts and the 5th round awaiting, I was wrong.

I realise now that I was wearing my old X-ray specs that I bought from an ad in a comic when I was a young ‘un. My mistake - Steve, Jon and Mark were suited and booted all along.

Here’s one plastic, happy clapper who’s eating humble pie. 

Ha.......

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49 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Agreed.  Very interesting interview.  Amazed that so many people in this thread are already accusing him of lying.  It seems that anything that contradicts people’s pet conspiracy theories is automatically dismissed as lies.  Now where have we seen that in the last four years?

On the contrary I think the line I quoted on Holden's appointment rather proves what many of us sceptics long suspected. 

Much the argument over the past 4 year revolved around whether Johnson was up to the task of getting the club promoted. Those of us who decided long ago that he wasn't were proved right - and now we know why. Neither LJ not Holden were appointed for their skill as managers, they weren't the most skilled applicants, but those most prepared to toe the line.

Whether that's a good thing strategically for the club or not I'm unsure. I can see arguments both ways, but it explains why LJ was given so much time, and why we have the manager we now have.

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3 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@BigTone can you do your normal summary please?

I’ve been up the allotment planting my garlic and I’m now in an Epsom salt and tea tree bath. Not got the time to listen or read - summary would be good though. Ta.

And to all those I’ve amused or confused with my posts about Mr L. I apologise. Profusely. With a 3-0 win under our belts and the 5th round awaiting, I was wrong.

I realise now that I was wearing my old X-ray specs that I bought from an ad in a comic when I was a young ‘un. My mistake - Steve, Jon and Mark were suited and booted all along.

Here’s one plastic, happy clapper who’s eating humble pie. 

Ha.......

Of course Sir

We won

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52 minutes ago, Gmac said:

“We brought in two England experienced coaches with him but they can't coach fully because you can't do 11 vs 11 because you haven't got the time. All you're doing is recovering for the next game..”

Guess that answers the question of what those two bring to the table..

Nothing currently.

Don't be silly.

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Fascinated some people are hooked and buy into that interview.

You sort of read it and think, oh yeah, that makes sense, maybe we are harsh on him...but then you remember everything he's ever said.

1) Has often said I have the final say on transfers, or the head coach answers to me or I brought X, Y, Z in..etc over the years...but in this is, for the first time, very much distancing himself from recruitment and just saying he is the deal broker. So which one is it? He was also at pains to say how SL has the final say...lots of blame shifting.

2) After certain questions, huge piles of at best guff, at worse lies. Sorry, but he's asked a specific question about transfer and player tradings and goes into some long monologue about how each player we've sold wanted to leave, came to him, blah blah, I love City, but ££££. Suggests we would have kept Brownhill, Webby, Bryan, Reid etc had they wanted to stay. He even said, every manager agrees a player being sold, as if it is somehow their choice! Yet on the other hand for years he's said ( and even again later in this interview) we are a trading club, that's the blueprint, don't get attached to players..etc...and LJ came out many times publicly talking about not wanting to or the difficulty as coach losing your best players. So again I ask, which one is it? 

3) He does a very bad job of making excuses about injuries before the actually revealing comments...we will review it, we won't throw anyone under the bus (suggesting there is blame) - Also, takes credit for Mawson's re-hab, didn't it happen back at Fulham? 

4) Luke-warm at best about Holden. "He's done what I expected"....what an answer. Also confirmed what I wrote this yesterday or this morning that we will be limited in coach choice under the owner's current strategy. 

It's not about conspiracies for me, it's about honesty and I didn't feel like I got much TBH. Too much trying to make us feel sorry for him IMO. Towards the end he actually shows a little humility, and say's look we, I, need to do better. SL has asked that of him, to do better, let's see what happens. If he actually believes that, he may well improve, there is plenty of improving to do IMO, not least in his teams area, recruitment. Perhaps the pressure is on from above finally, it feels that was from this interview. 

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8 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Not the result!

Mr A’s interview! ?

Says that Holden is doing what they expected he would given the constraints he has been subject to due to Covid, inheriting LJ's squad and not being able to use the transfer market to it's full potential. 

Says that injuries have obviously curtailed progress and that Steve Coppell was a revelation in his time with us. Ok, may have made that bit up.

 

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1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

Fascinating interview - Ashton has helpfully opened the lid on a few things here. No surprises as to why we have Dean Holden as our manager:

'we appointed Dean because the debate was do the owners want us to move away from the (trading your way to the top) model? Because ultimately, it’s their business. ‘Do you want us to move away from the model or do you want us to continue as we are? Yes, continue as you are, I want you to get better at what you do, I want you to become more effective at what you do.’

Actually, that reduces the recruitment of a manager or head coach as there are only certain types of head coaches that will work in that way. Some will tell you that they will but they won’t and others just won’t.'

 

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

Yes a playing philosophy , which you then recruit to

Not a standalone recruitment policy without a playing philosophy

Steve - Yes, please continue with the trading model, we’ll keep buying young, develop, sell at profit. 
 

Mark - Ok Steve. No problem. 

Mark then proceeds to make 6 of the last 7 permanent signings who are over 30 years old. 
 

Steve - Ummm....I thought we agreed upon the model? 
 

It’s astonishing that people buy this nonsense. 

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

 

Steve - Yes, please continue with the trading model, we’ll keep buying young, develop, sell at profit. 
 

Mark - Ok Steve. No problem. 

Mark then proceeds to make 6 of the last 7 permanent signings who are over 30 years old. 
 

Steve - Ummm....I thought we agreed upon the model? 
 

It’s astonishing that people buy this nonsense. 

Can’t disagree there Harry


I guess they will be sold as ‘good value’ signings 

( I will post about the recruitment etc explanation from his I/v at some point ) 

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44 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I was fascinated by the interview for all the reasons you list - and more! He appears to me to have let his guard down.

For me, Ashton is like a weather cock on the roof. 

In true politician style, he sticks his finger in the air and sees which way the wind is blowing.

Hence why he constantly changes his tune and why he contradicts himself.

For those with short memories or who don’t listen carefully, you’ll be easily fooled.

The rest will be, as a minimum, suspicious - especially when so many areas and employees under his watch are quite frankly, under achieving.

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1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said:

He has always given interviews around a transfer window.

It's been consistent since he came in.

Sometimes 2 in the summer (one end of season, one start of season/end of window) and usually one in the winter, again around the transfer window.

This happened when we were on the 23 game winless run under LJ as well.

 

The "he only does an interview when we are winning" is a myth to add an extra thing to complain about MA.

There are valid enough questions to be asked about him without people actively inventing them.

I know he’s done them before, has he done them each window? I just think this one was partly due to the Diedhiou leak. Whether it was a planned beforehand I have no idea. 

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3 hours ago, Simon79 said:

Clubs come to us & ask questions on how we operate etc etc. Please could someone at City ask another club a couple of questions.... How do you get your players to move, create angles & pass? ........ How do you get your team to be entertaining? Many thanks in advance. COYR 

Credit where credit is due. Well done Mark on making that phone call! COYR 

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2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Agreed.  Very interesting interview.  Amazed that so many people in this thread are already accusing him of lying.  It seems that anything that contradicts people’s pet conspiracy theories is automatically dismissed as lies.  Now where have we seen that in the last four years?

I agree.

It was a very good and informative interview.

Nothing at all to gripe at imo.

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

 

Steve - Yes, please continue with the trading model, we’ll keep buying young, develop, sell at profit. 
 

Mark - Ok Steve. No problem. 

Mark then proceeds to make 6 of the last 7 permanent signings who are over 30 years old. 
 

Steve - Ummm....I thought we agreed upon the model? 
 

It’s astonishing that people buy this nonsense. 

I'd be prepared to wait longer than 1 window to decide that given the lack of money atm, couldn't go out and sign many players you'd count as prospects who we'd be able to develop and sell on, Joe Williams seemed an indication of it. Personally had no problem with some more experience being added to the squad we had either.

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49 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I know he’s done them before, has he done them each window? I just think this one was partly due to the Diedhiou leak. Whether it was a planned beforehand I have no idea. 

Yes, he has.

Only window I cant remember was this summer gone.

Other than that he has literally done one or more per window, 2017-18 was just before the January one, think 16-17 it was just as it closed.

 

In fact I have literally made the point about him doing interviews around the window for the last 2-3 years, and one of those times I'm fairly sure I even checked the dates.

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16 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Reminds me far more of Biden; been around politics for 50 years yet manages to get all of the morons at MSM to announce 'a breath of fresh air'. Hilarious BS.

Compared to the Wotsit in Chief who just left, he is a breath of fresh air.

Can only be good to have a president who doesnt encourage violent rascists.

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