Mark Ashton's full interview with the BP

[Lrrr]

4 minutes ago, mozo said:

I hadn't noticed that. It marks a departure from our previous strategy but hasn't been mentioned by Ashton.

Its hard to say that on the basis the last 2 windows have been impacted by COVID on our finances. 2 free transfers added experienced heads to the squad, something Holden seemingly wanted, free transfers so weren't expensive to bring in. 3 were out of necessity due to injuries (Rodri, A.Williams, Mariappa) and therefore unplanned and Wells was either top scorer or just off when we signed him in January, we know LJ was in the position of 6th or sacked so was wanted someone to make an impact for the here and now. It leaves our only other transfer for a fee in that time as Joe Williams who fits bang with the mentioned strategy.

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I can’t believe people are trying to argue against 100% facts. Is it true or not? Yes. 
We can find a mitigating circumstance in pretty much anything. Doesn’t change the fact that it’s, well, a fact. 

Because there is a reason to with regards to these, you're burying your head in the sand to say that half of the free transfers being out of necessity as free agents doesn't matter. Holden wanting to add some experience to the squad 'obviously' means a change of direction in strategy. Adding one of if not the top scorer in the league in Wells when LJ was in shit or bust situation. You skipped out on my question though, did you expect the club to outlay on multiple million plus pound transfers in the summer? Given thats what it costs to bring in players in line with the strategy, if not then its hardly surprising we looked at free agents who are typically older players.

You also said over the last 4 windows then ignore all the transfers I mentioned from the 19/20 summer again before COVID hit.

[JamesBCFC]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

How is presenting an exact fact considered disingenuous? 
Doesn’t matter how it’s come about, but the pure fact is that 6 of the last 7 permanent signings are over 30. 
How can anyone come up with an argument to disagree with that - it’s the simple truth. 

Because you are deliberately ending the data selection at a certain point to paint a particular picture.

Seeing as you've gone to the summer 2019 window to include Williams how about including the rest of the permanent signings from that window? That way you aren't being intentionally selective by ignoring the vast majority of signings from that window.

 

The saddest part is you know you're being disingenuous.

[Harry]

5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Because you are deliberately ending the data selection at a certain point to paint a particular picture.

Seeing as you've gone to the summer 2019 window to include Williams how about including the rest of the permanent signings from that window? That way you aren't being intentionally selective by ignoring the vast majority of signings from that window.

 

The saddest part is you know you're being disingenuous.

I made the point that 6 of the last 7. That goes back to Williams in summer 19. 
It’s fact 

[Harry]

14 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Because there is a reason to with regards to these, you're burying your head in the sand to say that half of the free transfers being out of necessity as free agents doesn't matter. Holden wanting to add some experience to the squad 'obviously' means a change of direction in strategy. Adding one of if not the top scorer in the league in Wells when LJ was in shit or bust situation. You skipped out on my question though, did you expect the club to outlay on multiple million plus pound transfers in the summer? Given thats what it costs to bring in players in line with the strategy, if not then its hardly surprising we looked at free agents who are typically older players.

You also said over the last 4 windows then ignore all the transfers I mentioned from the 19/20 summer again before COVID hit.

The fact is it’s 6 of the last 7. 
In answer to your question, I didn’t anticipate any big money signings no. 
Still doesn’t alter the fact. 
And I haven’t ignored the other 2019 signings. 
The last 7 signings, I said. That goes back to Williams and no further. Chronologically

[marcofisher]

I haven’t read the 7 pages of comments...but it really annoys me how Gregor has pressed him on selling Morrell but not referenced Chris Brunt at all. 
 

Seemingly shifts the blame on DH for wanting to shift JM, but still not a mention of the disastrous signing of CB... I think a lot on here would not necessarily be as gutted about losing JM if an equally as exciting player would have been brought in. But this issue was seemingly brushed under the carpet in this interview...

[JamesBCFC]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

I made the point that 6 of the last 7. That goes back to Williams in summer 19. 
It’s fact 

And why are you stopping at 7?

Because you know if you carry on past that then it changes dramatically, even with the signings of Gilmartin and Rowe that would add to your point.

You're being deliberately selective with how far back you go so you can paint a specific picture that doesn't match the wider view.

[Lrrr]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

The fact is it’s 6 of the last 7. 
In answer to your question, I didn’t anticipate any big money signings no. 
Still doesn’t alter the fact. 
And I haven’t ignored the other 2019 signings. 
The last 7 signings, I said. That goes back to Williams and no further. Chronologically

So how do you expect the club to sign multiple players (after Williams) in the supposed strategy if there's not going to be any significant outlay beyond the 1 transfer?

[Harry]

11 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

And why are you stopping at 7?

Because you know if you carry on past that then it changes dramatically, even with the signings of Gilmartin and Rowe that would add to your point.

You're being deliberately selective with how far back you go so you can paint a specific picture that doesn't match the wider view.

Still a fact 

10 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

So how do you expect the club to sign multiple players (after Williams) in the supposed strategy if there's not going to be any significant outlay beyond the 1 transfer?

You make like those signings weren’t expensive! 

[JamesBCFC]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Still a fact 

You make like those signings weren’t expensive! 

A heavily manipulated one.

Semenyo has a 100% goal record in his last game.

That's a fact.

Me then trying to argue that he will be England's record goalscorer because of that is also clearly flawed.

 

Regardless, I will say no more on this.

You've decided that the half a picture you get from the extremely selective data you used is too good to even get questioned, so I won't waste any more time.

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 hours ago, Red Exile said:

Fascinating interview - Ashton has helpfully opened the lid on a few things here. No surprises as to why we have Dean Holden as our manager:

'we appointed Dean because the debate was do the owners want us to move away from the (trading your way to the top) model? Because ultimately, it’s their business. ‘Do you want us to move away from the model or do you want us to continue as we are? Yes, continue as you are, I want you to get better at what you do, I want you to become more effective at what you do.’

Actually, that reduces the recruitment of a manager or head coach as there are only certain types of head coaches that will work in that way. Some will tell you that they will but they won’t and others just won’t.'

Could it be the case though that other managers, more 'traditional' ones will find their opportunities drying up at higher levels as this model continues to grow? I think that's an open question but certainly far from impossible.

Holden is doing alright IMO, especially with all the injuries for which he is totally blameless, but still wonder about this side under say Cook.

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 hours ago, Gmac said:

“We brought in two England experienced coaches with him but they can't coach fully because you can't do 11 vs 11 because you haven't got the time. All you're doing is recovering for the next game..”

Guess that answers the question of what those two bring to the table..

Nothing currently.

I am hopeful that if nothing else, they could be an invaluable resource to utilise contacts- see Swansea and their loanees under Cooper.

I however am still hoping...since they have joined Williams the only possible one?

[Bassomylord]

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I am hopeful that if nothing else, they could be an invaluable resource to utilise contacts- see Swansea and their loanees under Cooper.

I however am still hoping...since they have joined Williams the only possible one?

Chris Brunt....

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

Chris Brunt....

Ah yes...I keep forgetting him!

The contacts I was hopeful of were more like England U21 or similar loanees (subject to financial requirements and that)! Maybe come summer 2021 eh?

Actually I forgot- Sessegnon loan but oh, injured!

Talking of injuries, I was surprised to see him say that up until this season we had done well on that front- is he joking, it's been a recurring theme since Autumn of 2017/18 season!

[Bassomylord]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah yes...I keep forgetting him!

The contacts I was hopeful of was more like England U21 loanees or similar (subject to financial requirements and that)! Maybe come summer 2021 eh?

Actually I forgot- Sessegnon loan but oh, injured!

Injured? Surely not.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, Harry said:

It’s more than 1 window mate. Try the last 4. The last 7 permanent signings, 6 are over 30 with zero future value. 
Adrian Mariappa Winter 21. 
Chris Brunt Summer 20. 
Chris Martin Summer 20. 
Joe Williams Summer 20. 
Nahki Wells Winter 20. 
Rodri Mid Season 19/20. 
Ashley Williams Summer 19. 

4 windows!! Doesn’t strike me as following the ‘plan’. 

Tbh Rodri was a short term signing, I wouldn't hold too much against for that one- Martin on a free feels like decent business- Williams and Mariappa had, have their uses and were kind of for the here and now- but I don't really associate CBs or defenders over 30 with suitability for a medium let alone high line! One moment for todays game, when Mariappa failed to get to a ball forward- out to the flank...straight out of play!

Clearly not got the pace he used to have, which is normal with age.

Do take your point about a lack of sell on value but think a number of those signings can be rationalised.

I'm hopeful this summer we will be looking at players in the 23-30- the latter being an absolute max bracket- some good free agents about and maybe lower if necessary.

[WessexPest]

Ashton - here’s some French for you:- foutre le camp.

[BCFC Rich]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

Still a fact 

You make like those signings weren’t expensive! 

I'm pretty much aligned to your feelings on MA, but you are at the very least being disingenuous here. I could say in the last full seasons he has made us over $80m in transfer sales which sounds good, but we know I'm only representing some of the truth. Its still a fact, but it's not fairly contextualised. 

[Cidre Monita]

11 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

I'm pretty much aligned to your feelings on MA, but you are at the very least being disingenuous here. I could say in the last full seasons he has made us over $80m in transfer sales which sounds good, but we know I'm only representing some of the truth. Its still a fact, but it's not fairly contextualised. 

It is how those fees were spent that is essential. Loom at our current squad, look at what it will be this summer with the players out of contract. Look at our wage bill. Look at the value in that remaining squad, and finally look at how we play. If you cannot see the reality, then there is a very rude awakening coming. Ashton is a a disaster and a cancer, and needs removing asap. we are no longer as one as a club, we have lost our soul, we have lost our warmth and empathy. It is horrible to see, because even in some really dark days, we were still a club, we were still together. Today that is no longer true, and that was something that transcended league position. The love, the affinity, the passion and heart has been lost. That is the really sad part. The club now openly lies to the fans. We have two new stands, a shiny look, but over the last years we have lost our soul. That is really hard to take . We need someone to galvanise the club, get everyone on the same page and give some passion and heart back again. Look really hard at what Garry J and Steve C did , the players we signed, then ethos, how we played. These are recent examples, and both had big similarities. We have forgotten the two most successful managers of the last decades and how they achieved success. We are no longer united and there is doubt and scepticism and a total lack of belief and passion. 

[Club and Country]

Someone needs to ask him about Andy Rolls directly and what’s going on, would be extremely interested in his answer 

[tin]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

“But there comes a point where... there's almost a perception that Ashton signs
the players, Ashton picks the players. You must be joking! I don't see enough
games. We have a recruitment team and the head coach is involved at stage
one with the recruitment team. So any names on the list that he doesn't like, it
comes off at that point”

On one hand he said the above, on the other he said “I brought him [Diedhiou] in, let me be clear”. Possibly the most direct contradiction in the interview, so which is it? 

[JamesBCFC]

19 minutes ago, tin said:

On one hand he said the above, on the other he said “I brought him [Diedhiou] in, let me be clear”. Possibly the most direct contradiction in the interview, so which is it? 

Haven't read the full thing, but the 2 quotes there don't necessarily contradict.

Bringing players in, as in conducting the negotiations, etc. is surely his remit. That doesn't mean the recruitment team didn't identify him.

 

Now it could be that he contradicts himself with it, but it isn't 100%

[pjg11]

15 hours ago, Alessandro said:

Fascinated some people are hooked and buy into that interview.

You sort of read it and think, oh yeah, that makes sense, maybe we are harsh on him...but then you remember everything he's ever said.

1) Has often said I have the final say on transfers, or the head coach answers to me or I brought X, Y, Z in..etc over the years...but in this is, for the first time, very much distancing himself from recruitment and just saying he is the deal broker. So which one is it? He was also at pains to say how SL has the final say...lots of blame shifting.

2) After certain questions, huge piles of at best guff, at worse lies. Sorry, but he's asked a specific question about transfer and player tradings and goes into some long monologue about how each player we've sold wanted to leave, came to him, blah blah, I love City, but ££££. Suggests we would have kept Brownhill, Webby, Bryan, Reid etc had they wanted to stay. He even said, every manager agrees a player being sold, as if it is somehow their choice! Yet on the other hand for years he's said ( and even again later in this interview) we are a trading club, that's the blueprint, don't get attached to players..etc...and LJ came out many times publicly talking about not wanting to or the difficulty as coach losing your best players. So again I ask, which one is it? 

3) He does a very bad job of making excuses about injuries before the actually revealing comments...we will review it, we won't throw anyone under the bus (suggesting there is blame) - Also, takes credit for Mawson's re-hab, didn't it happen back at Fulham? 

4) Luke-warm at best about Holden. "He's done what I expected"....what an answer. Also confirmed what I wrote this yesterday or this morning that we will be limited in coach choice under the owner's current strategy. 

It's not about conspiracies for me, it's about honesty and I didn't feel like I got much TBH. Too much trying to make us feel sorry for him IMO. Towards the end he actually shows a little humility, and say's look we, I, need to do better. SL has asked that of him, to do better, let's see what happens. If he actually believes that, he may well improve, there is plenty of improving to do IMO, not least in his teams area, recruitment. Perhaps the pressure is on from above finally, it feels that was from this interview. 

With reference to Korey we all knew he was going before Holden got the job but says it was Deans choice to let him go. That says Holden was always getting the job and the 6 weeks was a smokescreen 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

8 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

A heavily manipulated one.

Semenyo has a 100% goal record in his last game.

That's a fact.

Me then trying to argue that he will be England's record goalscorer because of that is also clearly flawed.

 

Regardless, I will say no more on this.

You've decided that the half a picture you get from the extremely selective data you used is too good to even get questioned, so I won't waste any more time.

Sorry, but you’re cherry picking here. Semenyo scored in the 72nd minute, so with his goal every 4 minutes record (subbed in the 76th minute), we can confidently expect him to score 23 against Sheff Utd. And if he can convert his cup form into league form (admittedly not certain, so just an almost definitely certain fact, rather than a completely factual fact fact), we’ll see 495 in the onion bag from the young lad over the remaining 22 games. 

[JamesBCFC]

1 minute ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Sorry, but you’re cherry picking here. Semenyo scored in the 72nd minute, so with his goal every 4 minutes record (subbed in the 76th minute), we can confidently expect him to score 23 against Sheff Utd. And if he can convert his cup form into league form (admittedly not certain, so just an almost definitely certain fact, rather than a completely factual fact fact), we’ll see 495 in the onion bag from the young lad over the remaining 22 games. 

You're absolutely right, and I'm sure @Harry will fully agree

 

[big dosser]

a bit of a worry i took from that Rene Gilmartin sounds like he should be head coach,next in line maybe

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

The fact is it’s 6 of the last 7. 
In answer to your question, I didn’t anticipate any big money signings no. 
Still doesn’t alter the fact. 
And I haven’t ignored the other 2019 signings. 
The last 7 signings, I said. That goes back to Williams and no further. Chronologically

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

9 hours ago, Harry said:

The fact is it’s 6 of the last 7. 
In answer to your question, I didn’t anticipate any big money signings no. 
Still doesn’t alter the fact. 
And I haven’t ignored the other 2019 signings. 
The last 7 signings, I said. That goes back to Williams and no further. Chronologically

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

9 hours ago, Harry said:

The fact is it’s 6 of the last 7. 
In answer to your question, I didn’t anticipate any big money signings no. 
Still doesn’t alter the fact. 
And I haven’t ignored the other 2019 signings. 
The last 7 signings, I said. That goes back to Williams and no further. Chronologically

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

9 hours ago, Harry said:

The fact is it’s 6 of the last 7. 
In answer to your question, I didn’t anticipate any big money signings no. 
Still doesn’t alter the fact. 
And I haven’t ignored the other 2019 signings. 
The last 7 signings, I said. That goes back to Williams and no further. Chronologically

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Just now, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

You have an interesting interpretation of the word ‘fact’.  What I would suggest to you is that City’s transfer policy has been as you have described, but also had a rider, that being “In the case of unforeseen injury crises, experienced short-term cover should be signed as soon as possible”.  To suggest that City should stick to a policy of signing young players who can be developed even in a short-term crisis is, if you’ll forgive me, rather ridiculous.

Yeah, sorry about that peeps.

[Cowshed]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could it be the case though that other managers, more 'traditional' ones will find their opportunities drying up at higher levels as this model continues to grow? I think that's an open question but certainly far from impossible.

Holden is doing alright IMO, especially with all the injuries for which he is totally blameless, but still wonder about this side under say Cook.

What club are mirroring this Bristol City model? 

Modern coaching and development is governed by principles. These principles and its philosophies underpin a model of play. This model is present throughout the top levels of European football. Elements of this model are certainly present at the top levels of English football. 

Bristol City have a recruitment strategy that leads to the inexplicable why is the player going to play at all? How does this players skill set meet the team need now?

@Harry is making a factual point about over 30's. That recruitment point can be extended further? What model brings in frequently now seasoned pros and why? 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Psychopomp said:

It is how those fees were spent that is essential. Loom at our current squad, look at what it will be this summer with the players out of contract. Look at our wage bill. Look at the value in that remaining squad, and finally look at how we play. If you cannot see the reality, then there is a very rude awakening coming. Ashton is a a disaster and a cancer, and needs removing asap. we are no longer as one as a club, we have lost our soul, we have lost our warmth and empathy. It is horrible to see, because even in some really dark days, we were still a club, we were still together. Today that is no longer true, and that was something that transcended league position. The love, the affinity, the passion and heart has been lost. That is the really sad part. The club now openly lies to the fans. We have two new stands, a shiny look, but over the last years we have lost our soul. That is really hard to take . We need someone to galvanise the club, get everyone on the same page and give some passion and heart back again. Look really hard at what Garry J and Steve C did , the players we signed, then ethos, how we played. These are recent examples, and both had big similarities. We have forgotten the two most successful managers of the last decades and how they achieved success. We are no longer united and there is doubt and scepticism and a total lack of belief and passion. 

Agree with every word, I just cannot understand how many fans can see how employing a non exp manager can get us to the next level. Nothing against Dean but cant see him taking us anywhere.

We are now part of a new plan/dream seems all about the money and fans are just clients who no nothing and are told nothing.....ah well round and round we go seems many are ok with that.