marcofisher Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Bassomylord said: Which isn't relevant to the point you were making. At the same age Bentley had over 100 appearances at this level and had been a no1 in the champiomship for 3 seasons....this is compared to O'Learys, what, 10 games? The point I made was that not every player develops at the same rate and that a 24 year old keeper is nowhere near his peak and still has plenty of room to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 6 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Woodman will be a top Prem keeper so comparing the two isn’t worth doing 24 years is young For a keeper especially- reckon keepers don't peak until late 20's- maybe that's slightly old thinking but they undoubtedly have a longer shelf-life at a strong level than outfield players, on average definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Just now, marcofisher said: The point I made was that not every player develops at the same rate and that a 24 year old keeper is nowhere near his peak and still has plenty of room to develop. And plenty of time to regress ala Frankie Fielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: For a keeper especially- reckon keepers don't peak until late 20's- maybe that's slightly old thinking but they undoubtedly have a longer shelf-life at a strong level than outfield players, on average definitely. Depends on the keeper plenty have gotten worse as they age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Bassomylord said: Depends on the keeper plenty have gotten worse as they age. Of course, but 24 has useful room for growth for any player- and excellent for a keeper. Of course it can depend on the player, then variables such as luck, injury, opportunity- but on balance think the signs are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Bassomylord said: And plenty of time to regress ala Frankie Fielding. Frankie was a solid option for years for us before his injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: Of course, but 24 has useful room for growth for any player- and excellent for a keeper. Of course it can depend on the player, then variables such as luck, injury, opportunity- but on balance think the signs are good. I agree they do tend to improve. Need game time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, marcofisher said: Frankie was a solid option for years for us before his injuries. Frankie was bang average. Too many lapses of concentration, too many flaps from crosses, couldnt kick, looked tiny in the goal and made far too many mistakes......no coincidence he somehow managed to lose his place every season. Never seen a keeper look so small in a goal. Left Derby and got consistently worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Just now, Bassomylord said: Frankie was bang average. Too many lapses of concentration, too many flaps from crosses, couldnt kick, looked tiny in the goal and made far too many mistakes......no coincidence he somehow managed to lose his place every season. Never seen a keeper look so small in a goal. Left Derby and got consistently worse. Won promotion in our second season with over 100 points. And before you say it was in L1 , you just pointed out Raya as an exceptional Championship keeper who did exactly the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, marcofisher said: Won promotion in our second season with over 100 points. And before you say it was in L1 , you just pointed out Raya as an exceptional Championship keeper who did exactly the same. Again don't see the relevance.....Raya is playing for a top champ side regularly....FF was binned by Derby for not being good enough.....came to us and got binned in favour of Elliott Parrish, Hamer, Moore, O'Donnell, Giefer and OLeary.....went to Milwall and played 1 league game in 2 years. Decent L1 keeper maybe but crap in the champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyolly Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Anyone that saw Max at Villa in 2019 knows that he’s got it. Of course he needs to prove that week in week out but I see no reason why he can’t do that given a run of games. Having DB and MO on board is a fantastic position to be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Just now, allyolly said: Anyone that saw Max at Villa in 2019 knows that he’s got it. Of course he needs to prove that week in week out but I see no reason why he can’t do that given a run of games. Having DB and MO on board is a fantastic position to be in. he won't get a run of games....and again the Villa one is great for shot stopping....yet to see an example of a game where he dominated his box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the1stknowle Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 11 hours ago, Bassomylord said: 24 years old....not young but appreciate by keepers standards not close to peak age. Compare him to Freddie Woodman at Swansea who has had 2 full seasons at champ level....playing regularly....only 23. 9 hours ago, Bassomylord said: This sums it up nicely, some fans are obviously blinkered by the fact he is young and local. Not good enough yet for championship football and definitely not our next number 1. Did he run over your cat or something? If this is your take after a clean sheet and a good game with some excellent saves then he's probably got an uphill struggle convincing you. Have you already written your 'I told you all he wasn't a championship keeper' message ready for a future game when he makes an actual mistake or (gulp..) doesn't play that well?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 7 hours ago, marcofisher said: Everyone knows goalkeepers peak in their early 20s. Sell him, he’s washed up and done for! Same as Semenyo, 21 and not an exceptional finisher?! SELL!! (Wasn’t Ian Wright still either in jail or playing semi-professional at this age and still became an exceptional striker and one of the most inspirational English strikers and equally exceptional role models?!) Massengo, 19 years old and not built like a s*** brick house? SELL! People need to stop watching players like Sancho, Foden and Greenwood and realise that only some talents are so exceptional and have been lucky enough to develop early that they will be a cut above the rest as such a young age. The rest of them, funnily enough, will still need time to develop a fully rounded game! Maybe Max, despite him being an equally exceptional shot stopper, isn’t as good in the air as Bentley. But have you seen some of Bentleys clangers for Brentford?! He has certainly done some development of his own in his career to get to where he is now... Maybe Semenyo isn’t a fantastic finisher, but who was the last player who could so effortlessly move past players like he does? The last player I can think of is JET, and Antoine already has a far more rounded game that JET when we consider his defensive contribution, which was non-existent in the case of JET. Really boring how sections of OTIB will write off certain youngsters who show some exceptional attributes for not being a fully rounded player in their teens or early 20s. Neither do the same section realise that all players won’t necessarily develop at the same rate. Just because one talent develops at a certain age doesn’t mean it is the same for the next one. Post bottle of Bordeaux rant over! Just had a look and Ian Wright wasn’t even playing semi-professional football at 21. He was playing Sunday league football and it was only when he was at 22 a semi-pro team signed him. Admittedly, once he reached that stage, he was only there five or six games before Palace came in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 8 hours ago, Davefevs said: I present Edwin van der Sar versus the over-muscled / loss of agility David James. No that's not right. In Escape To Victory, there is no way we would have beaten Gerry without a steroid pumped Stallone in nets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City oz Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 8 hours ago, Bassomylord said: And plenty of time to regress ala Frankie Fielding. Look at Ray Cashley he started out as a left back. he came along around 1970 and then peaked in 75 and was a regular and did not miss a game and was probably one of the greatest goalies in the history of Bristol City. I think he was also the only City goalie to score a goal and it was a night match in the fog against Hull. I was in the open end and Cashley was pumping his kicks all night to the other end of the pitch and on one the ball bounced in front of the Hull goalie, it went over his head and in the net. I will always remember that one. Those were great years and I hope they come back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 11 hours ago, ziderheadarmy said: Nothing like giving a bloke a chance. Thought that was an OTIB rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 4 hours ago, the1stknowle said: Did he run over your cat or something? If this is your take after a clean sheet and a good game with some excellent saves then he's probably got an uphill struggle convincing you. Have you already written your 'I told you all he wasn't a championship keeper' message ready for a future game when he makes an actual mistake or (gulp..) doesn't play that well?? No you just did though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassomylord Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said: Always a scapegoat, sigh Max is good enough and has been since his debut umpteen years ago vs Ipswich was it aged 17? I dunno, slept since then. He's been unlucky in so much that we've had a run of decent keepers, whilst he's had to go on loan. Max and jonjo dont scare me if Bents gets a well deserved Prem move tbh. You clearly don't understand what a "scapegoat" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsapper Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 16 hours ago, And Its Smith said: Still amazes me how many fans don’t understand that young players improve Young players need games in the first team to improve but playing young players will cost the team points as they make mistakes! It’s us fans that need to understand this and stopping shouting that they are not good enough. The coaches see them each day and know what they can do in training against the experienced pro’s this is what gives them a chance in the team! They come in and guess what they make a mistake and some keyboard warrior starts to shout out that they are not good enough this then builds and the player looses confidence then they get dropped. When they come back into the team the same people start shouting again they are not good enough and get straight on their back. Our jobs as fans is to support the team. We play in a league where the parachute payments give a unfair advantage to the teams coming down 3 of top 6 came down last season add Swansea and you have 4 with the extra payments, but that is what we have to get past. Yesterday’s team had 5 starters that have come through the academy plus another 4 on the bench. We may never have a team full of our own players as we will need to top up with others players. This for me will be the way forward! I await the shouts that I’m a happy clapper but I’m just a fan who has watched over a number of years. It needs a good team spirit and the backing of the fans because when the fans are behind the team Ashton Gate is a imposing place for other clubs to play at. We have had to sale our best players year on year (that’s not going to change either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Anybody would think, reading this board, that young players throughout the history of football have never worked on weaknesses in their game and shown improvement. Some aren’t good enough, can’t make the adjustments and those weaknesses see them go down the pyramid and others become very good players who go the other way. Semenyo was a League 1/2 player AT BEST on here 6 months ago........so many ill informed fans look at a young player RIGHT NOW and make their final judgement on them. They ain’t all like Phil Foden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillred Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 20 minutes ago, Bassomylord said: You clearly don't understand what a "scapegoat" is. Is that what happens when the farmer leaves the gate open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Chappers Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Struggling with the negativity, good keeper comes through the ranks, did an excellent job when called upon for a run of games a few years ago, looked good every time he has been selected. Time to appreciate what we have got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 4 hours ago, City oz said: Ray Cashley .... was probably one of the greatest goalies in the history of Bristol City. Those were great years and I hope they come back soon. Even if O'Leary isn't ready yet, I am not convinced Cashley is the answer. His knees are a bit shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Interesting that someone with a username that pays homage to a goalkeeper who didn't get a crack at the Championship until the age of 32, thinks that a 24 year old definitely won't make it at this level and another 32 year old is "past it".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 goalkeepers can keep going until they lose they're spring/jump/leap/legs whatever you wish to call it for England keepers it happens just before a major competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 On 24/01/2021 at 11:22, pillred said: Is that what happens when the farmer leaves the gate open? Well I thought it was funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nongazeuse Posted January 26, 2021 Report Share Posted January 26, 2021 I see that O'Leary is named in the Mail (by Chris Sutton) as being in the Cup team of the week, alongside Tammy and Foden. Full list: O'Leary (BCFC) Targett (Villa) Tozer (Cheltenham) Long (Burnley) Walker-Peters (Soton) Foden (Man C) Bissouma (Brighton) Grimes (Swansea) Benrahma (W Ham) Abraham (Chelsea) Cullen (Swansea) Fair play to Max although I would have given the GK slot to the Cheltenham keeper (Griffiths). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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