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Twentyman vs. Ashton Match Thread


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For me, regarding Liam Walsh, I find the entire thing bizarre.

A lot of people saying that there is an irrational “love-in” for him on here, but where has that narrative come from? Yes, you have guessed it, the club itself.

In Dean Holden’s “brave new world/front foot football/92 goals a season” utopia, Walsh was identified as a key cog in this footballing dream world. Off the back of a player of the season campaign for Coventry, which included a couple of worldies and numerous assists, Liam was given the 8 shirt, and his best mate from the all-conquering Everton youth side was signed to complement him.

The fact that Holden rates him highly, gave him the 8 shirt, spoke him up, was convinced that there was a new contract imminent, and yet there has not so much been on offer is staggering.

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1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

For me, regarding Liam Walsh, I find the entire thing bizarre.

A lot of people saying that there is an irrational “love-in” for him on here, but where has that narrative come from? Yes, you have guessed it, the club itself.

In Dean Holden’s “brave new world/front foot football/92 goals a season” utopia, Walsh was identified as a key cog in this footballing dream world. Off the back of a player of the season campaign for Coventry, which included a couple of worldies and numerous assists, Liam was given the 8 shirt, and his best mate from the all-conquering Everton youth side was signed to compliment him.

The fact that Holden rates him highly, gave him the 8 shirt, spoke him up, was convinced that there was a new contract imminent, and yet there has not so much been on offer is staggering.

Perhaps he's just crap 

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Just now, BigTone said:

Well how many first team games has he played since he signed ?

In answer to your question then Yes.

I think he has been injured for a lot of the season.

So he was given the 8 shirt and Holden said he was a massive part of his plans but actually because you think he is crap he has not been offered a new contract.

Thanks for the high-level articulate analysis and input.

Nothing else to see here everyone, the mystery has been solved.

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56 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

There is no way MA can go on radio and tell the whole truth or the clubs thoughts on certain situations, particularly where you are going to be negotiating a contract.

If I was MA, I am not sure I would be rushing to give Walsh a contract at the moment, if you can put off for a while to see if he fully recovers from his injury, can he adapt to championship football, perhaps there have been elements of his attitude they are not happy with during the recovery.

The one thing if you like MA or not, you cannot knock the way he has negotiated transfers and contracts, so while I know many love lots of conspiracy theories or like hearing a tit bit of information and making 2+2=7, sometimes we have to trust the club to do the best for the club.

We’ve no idea how good he is at negotiating contracts....the wage bill suggests he doesn’t drive the same bargain on our own players?  Our average wage per 1st team player is over £15k per week!  Kieran Maguire’s numbers not mine.

53 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Both in a **** off house in long ashton now

Kalas and Baker? ?

25 minutes ago, Taz said:

I'll have to try and listen tomorrow whilst at work. 

What isn't surprising from reading through this thread, is that we have a lot of players OOC in the summer, and by the looks of it we are happy to leave it until the last minute with regards to offering new terms. To be honest a lot of us expected, and/or have come to the realisation that most will be gone by the time the new season comes around (and actually most on here were happy for them to go).

What is worrying though is that Holden states a while ago that Walsh's contract was on the table and would/should hopefully be sorted soon. Months later Lord Ashton states that no offer has been made. So either Holden is a liar, or he is being lied to. Either way, it would suggest that there could be problems between Ashton and Holden. 

I know that if my boss had made me out to be a liar in public and it wasn't right, then you could bet your ass that I wouldn't just stand there and let them get away with it.

I still wonder if there was a contract offer on the table close-season that didn’t get signed, got taken off the table, etc.

Ashton isn’t gonna tell us that is he?

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5 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

I think he has been injured for a lot of the season.

So he was given the 8 shirt and Holden said he was a massive part of his plans but actually because you think he is crap he has not been offered a new contract.

Thanks for the high-level articulate analysis and input.

Nothing else to see here everyone, the mystery has been solved.

No mystery solved at all. Just my opinion and maybe not that of others. Hey ho, that's life.

Just don't get the love in because since the day he signed he has done sweet nowt. Again just my opinion. 

So he did ok for Coventry but I don't see them breaking the bank to sign him. However, in fairness the effects of Covid could be causing that.

 

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So do you think the club see the out of contract market as being the one the club is now targeting from a sustainability point of view?

With there being no revenue for 12 months, transfer fees are likely to drop and with it wage demands might well lower.

Could this be the start of football hitting the reset button and Ashton is hoping that he can resign players on more competitive terms, or they are looking to rebuild the squad using less expensive players.... which may, or may not, include Walsh.

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8 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

So do you think the club see the out of contract market as being the one the club is now targeting from a sustainability point of view?

With there being no revenue for 12 months, transfer fees are likely to drop and with it wage demands might well lower.

Could this be the start of football hitting the reset button and Ashton is hoping that he can resign players on more competitive terms, or they are looking to rebuild the squad using less expensive players.... which may, or may not, include Walsh.

You could well be 100% spot on. Going to an interesting time ahead for all.

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5 minutes ago, BigTone said:

No mystery solved at all. Just my opinion and maybe not that of others. Hey ho, that's life.

Just don't get the love in because since the day he signed he has done sweet nowt. Again just my opinion. 

So he did ok for Coventry but I don't see them breaking the bank to sign him. However, in fairness the effects of Covid could be causing that.

 

And going against the judgment and opinion of Dean Holden?

I find it interesting that Dean would have set out his vision at interview for the role, which clearly (and my opinion or yours or anyone else’s is irrelevant in this situation) involved Walsh, at the centre of his side - as a player he clearly rates.

To then not get him tied down to a contract, for a Head Coach who wants him and was appointed on his “vision” is disappointing. To not even offer him one is bemusing.

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7 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

And going against the judgment and opinion of Dean Holden?

I find it interesting that Dean would have set out his vision at interview for the role, which clearly (and my opinion or yours or anyone else’s is irrelevant in this situation) involved Walsh, at the centre of his side - as a player he clearly rates.

To then not get him tied down to a contract, for a Head Coach who wants him and was appointed on his “vision” is disappointing. To not even offer him one is bemusing.

Without getting to know the workings of Holdens thoughts then we will never know. In saying that he's unlikely to criticize the player either as that could affect his value to a potential suitor in this window.

Personally I suspect Walsh will be off in the summer without playing a game in anger for BCFC this season. Could be wrong but again just my opinion which will likely differ from others.

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3 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Without getting to know the workings of Holdens thoughts then we will never know. In saying that he's unlikely to criticize the player either as that could affect his value to a potential suitor in this window.

Personally I suspect Walsh will be off in the summer without playing a game in anger for BCFC this season. Could be wrong but again just my opinion which will likely differ from others.

Sorry to labour my point and I appreciate the response but I think we do know “the workings of Holden’s thoughts” re: Liam Walsh don’t we??

Gave him the 8 shirt and said he would be a massive player for us this year.

Pretty crystal clear what he thinks of him?

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1 minute ago, TomThumb84 said:

Sorry to labour my point and I appreciate the response but I think we do know “the workings of Holden’s thoughts” re: Liam Walsh don’t we??

Gave him the 8 shirt and said he would be a massive player for us this year.

Pretty crystal clear what he thinks of him?

Is it ? Who knows ? I have no idea about DH's thought process and with respect I doubt you do either. What he says and what he means could be poles apart. I have no idea.

Again it'll be interesting to see what happens. I just can't see Walsh playing a game for us this season after which he will move on and I wish him the best of luck.

Again, let me stress this is just my opinion righty or wrongly.

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Just now, BigTone said:

Is it ? Who knows ? I have no idea about DH's thought process and with respect I doubt you do either. What he says and what he means could be poles apart. I have no idea.

Again it'll be interesting to see what happens. I just can't see Walsh playing a game for us this season after which he will move on and I wish him the best of luck.

Again, let me stress this is just my opinion righty or wrongly.

Ok, so he gave him a plumb squad number and says he rates him highly and is a massive player for us in his system, but maybe did not mean any of it.

Our problems are bigger than I realise with this Machiavellian mastermind as our head coach!!

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3 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Ok, so he gave him a plumb squad number and says he rates him highly and is a massive player for us in his system, but maybe did not mean any of it.

Our problems are bigger than I realise with this Machiavellian mastermind as our head coach!!

Tom, none of us know and frankly a shirt number means diddly squat. It certainly doesn't look like he is going to feature anytime soon. I would love it if he took to the pitch and turned our fortunes on our heads. Just don't see it though. He signed in Jan 2018 and has played I think 15 times. We are now 3 years later in 2021.

Let the lad move on and persue his career elsewhere. Could be the next Beckham but certainly not with us I think.

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58 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

So do you think the club see the out of contract market as being the one the club is now targeting from a sustainability point of view?

With there being no revenue for 12 months, transfer fees are likely to drop and with it wage demands might well lower.

Could this be the start of football hitting the reset button and Ashton is hoping that he can resign players on more competitive terms, or they are looking to rebuild the squad using less expensive players.... which may, or may not, include Walsh.

Was going to post similar, if we offered and signed players on lucrative contracts now, then found the market has fallen on its arse, bringing down players salaries with it, we’d all be complaining that we weren’t diligent and savvy enough.

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4 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Was going to post similar, if we offered and signed players on lucrative contracts now, then found the market has fallen on its arse, bringing down players salaries with it, we’d all be complaining that we weren’t diligent and savvy enough.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. IMO the market is about to see huge changes along with football as we know it in general.

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The piece in the Walsh saga that slightly confuses me is how these line up:

Holden speaks extremely highly of Walsh, and gives him the no 8 shirt as others have mentioned. It sounds like his first choice midfield would contain him.

Holden hasn't played Diedhiou that much this season (700 league minutes out of over 2,000, 6 starts and 15 subs).

Walsh and Diedhiou are out of contract at the end of the season.

Diedhiou has been offered by all accounts a pretty substantial contract.

Walsh has not yet been offered a new contract.

I'm struggling to line all that up in my head... If Walsh is so highly rated, and Diedhiou wasn't played for half the games so far this season then why is the latter the one we've offered a contract to? My only thought can be that Diedhiou cost us a lot more and would be seen as more of a financial loss/failure if he left us for free. But then that contradicts the idea that all signings (or the like) go through Holden.

Maybe I'm missing something here?

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3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

The piece in the Walsh saga that slightly confuses me is how these line up:

Holden speaks extremely highly of Walsh, and gives him the no 8 shirt as others have mentioned. It sounds like his first choice midfield would contain him.

Holden hasn't played Diedhiou that much this season (700 league minutes out of over 2,000, 6 starts and 15 subs).

Walsh and Diedhiou are out of contract at the end of the season.

Diedhiou has been offered by all accounts a pretty substantial contract.

Walsh has not yet been offered a new contract.

I'm struggling to line all that up in my head... If Walsh is so highly rated, and Diedhiou wasn't played for half the games so far this season then why is the latter the one we've offered a contract to? My only thought can be that Diedhiou cost us a lot more and would be seen as more of a financial loss/failure if he left us for free. But then that contradicts the idea that all signings (or the like) go through Holden.

Maybe I'm missing something here?

I guess it may be because Walsh will still be under 24 (born Sep 1997) at the end of his contract so we would get something in compensation whereas with Fam we get nothing.

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3 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I guess it may be because Walsh will still be under 24 (born Sep 1997) at the end of his contract so we would get something in compensation whereas with Fam we get nothing.

Plus we got plenty of midfield options now but not an obvious replacement for Fam without looking outside

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7 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

The piece in the Walsh saga that slightly confuses me is how these line up:

Holden speaks extremely highly of Walsh, and gives him the no 8 shirt as others have mentioned. It sounds like his first choice midfield would contain him.

Holden hasn't played Diedhiou that much this season (700 league minutes out of over 2,000, 6 starts and 15 subs).

Walsh and Diedhiou are out of contract at the end of the season.

Diedhiou has been offered by all accounts a pretty substantial contract.

Walsh has not yet been offered a new contract.

I'm struggling to line all that up in my head... If Walsh is so highly rated, and Diedhiou wasn't played for half the games so far this season then why is the latter the one we've offered a contract to? My only thought can be that Diedhiou cost us a lot more and would be seen as more of a financial loss/failure if he left us for free. But then that contradicts the idea that all signings (or the like) go through Holden.

Maybe I'm missing something here?

Also MA confirmed that negotiations are ongoing with Famara. He refused to say there was a final offer on the table and he said never say never, we're trying, regards agreeing terms. Fluid, conversations etcetera.

 

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44 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Tom, none of us know and frankly a shirt number means diddly squat. It certainly doesn't look like he is going to feature anytime soon. I would love it if he took to the pitch and turned our fortunes on our heads. Just don't see it though. He signed in Jan 2018 and has played I think 15 times. We are now 3 years later in 2021.

Let the lad move on and persue his career elsewhere. Could be the next Beckham but certainly not with us I think.

( Like you I’m yet to be convinced Walsh is our key to something better Tone )

(like you - I also think he will be gone in the summer )


But it appears Holden thought so 

Not only has he said so himself but Ashton again alluded to Holdens plans in the Gregor Interview about shaping our midfield around Williams and Walsh and hence why we sold Morrell , released Smith etc

Its not , shall we say joined up thinking 

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