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Twentyman vs. Ashton Match Thread


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44 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Tom, none of us know and frankly a shirt number means diddly squat. It certainly doesn't look like he is going to feature anytime soon. I would love it if he took to the pitch and turned our fortunes on our heads. Just don't see it though. He signed in Jan 2018 and has played I think 15 times. We are now 3 years later in 2021.

Let the lad move on and persue his career elsewhere. Could be the next Beckham but certainly not with us I think.

( Like you I’m yet to be convinced Walsh is our key to something better Tone )

(like you - I also think he will be gone in the summer )


But it appears Holden thought so 

Not only has he said so himself but Ashton again alluded to Holdens plans in the Gregor Interview about shaping our midfield around Williams and Walsh and hence why we sold Morrell , released Smith etc

Its not , shall we say joined up thinking 

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18 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

The piece in the Walsh saga that slightly confuses me is how these line up:

Holden speaks extremely highly of Walsh, and gives him the no 8 shirt as others have mentioned. It sounds like his first choice midfield would contain him.

Holden hasn't played Diedhiou that much this season (700 league minutes out of over 2,000, 6 starts and 15 subs).

Walsh and Diedhiou are out of contract at the end of the season.

Diedhiou has been offered by all accounts a pretty substantial contract.

Walsh has not yet been offered a new contract.

I'm struggling to line all that up in my head... If Walsh is so highly rated, and Diedhiou wasn't played for half the games so far this season then why is the latter the one we've offered a contract to? My only thought can be that Diedhiou cost us a lot more and would be seen as more of a financial loss/failure if he left us for free. But then that contradicts the idea that all signings (or the like) go through Holden.

Maybe I'm missing something here?

The main reason I'd say is Famara is most the likely to sign a pre-contract abroad, this creates an element of urgency. Secondly Walsh being injured, most clubs will wait to have a look at him once he's back before deciding to move for him incase injury changed him. Thirdly we wouldn't be able to offer deals to everyone now, the extra 10k - 20k a week it would add to the wage bill, if we wait 10 weeks to agree new deals thats 100k-200k saved which is key right now. 

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46 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Really ? They can't be scanned closer to home ?

I'd be intrigued to know what this equipment that players have to travel to Solihull is.

There are a lot of top medical facilities not just in and around Bristol and it's various universities, something odd about this.

Or was it the nearest to where the player lived? Or is that wishful thinking after the mileage Chris Brunt was putting in when injured 

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2 hours ago, TomThumb84 said:

For me, regarding Liam Walsh, I find the entire thing bizarre.

A lot of people saying that there is an irrational “love-in” for him on here, but where has that narrative come from? Yes, you have guessed it, the club itself.

In Dean Holden’s “brave new world/front foot football/92 goals a season” utopia, Walsh was identified as a key cog in this footballing dream world. Off the back of a player of the season campaign for Coventry, which included a couple of worldies and numerous assists, Liam was given the 8 shirt, and his best mate from the all-conquering Everton youth side was signed to complement him.

The fact that Holden rates him highly, gave him the 8 shirt, spoke him up, was convinced that there was a new contract imminent, and yet there has not so much been on offer is staggering.

What I find really bizarre is that Ashton thinks we’re a trading club, eg one who signs young players, develops them and sell them on for profit. Walsh fits that template, regardless of opinions on him. So why, if we’re a trading club, has a club record contract offer been made to keep Fam - who’s 29 in December - when surely securing the young OOC talent should be a priority? More mixed messages that make no financial sense, IMO — and that’s his job at the end of the day.

Edited by tin
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1 hour ago, Lew-T said:

You’re not crap if you’re producing this...

Real shame re Walsh. Fear it’s number 1024 of another City **** up...

Simple follow up questions from that, if he was doing it that regular why did Everton let him leave and why were we happy to send him out on loan? 

You can't base the overall value and quality of a player from the two clips above, surely those that see him regularly know better than us (though as others have already said, like Joe Morrell was, people seem to think Walsh is some kind of superstar)

Also like I said in this thread we don't know how his injury has impacted his game. 

The other thing maybe younger players have seized their opportunities and made the club realise we don't need Walsh anymore 

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Listened to it but haven't read all the comments on here.

Apart from us being fluid in a pandemic ( Two words he seemed to use most) 

I can't see top much to get hiper about. Yeah he's full of shit and not someone i would like to have a beer with,but skirting through the shit some of it sounded ok to me.

Injuries? sounded as concerned as us supporters, contracts? Hard to think it's different anywhere else in our division, of coarse i don't know.

With as it seems a few coming back now,the squad looking stronger and the team actually playing some football, need to keep it going,maybe  just maybe we might be ok.

I'm for one prepared now to see how it pans out play offs or no doesn't bother me play some football keep young players getting game time i'm happy.

End of the day conspiracy  theroy  and the destruction of our club i don't buy.

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Just now, phantom said:

In the English third tier

Can only do it at that level once he'd been sent there and Johnson told everyone regularly enough why Walsh had been sent out on loan

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40 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

The piece in the Walsh saga that slightly confuses me is how these line up:

Holden speaks extremely highly of Walsh, and gives him the no 8 shirt as others have mentioned. It sounds like his first choice midfield would contain him.

Holden hasn't played Diedhiou that much this season (700 league minutes out of over 2,000, 6 starts and 15 subs).

Walsh and Diedhiou are out of contract at the end of the season.

Diedhiou has been offered by all accounts a pretty substantial contract.

Walsh has not yet been offered a new contract.

I'm struggling to line all that up in my head... If Walsh is so highly rated, and Diedhiou wasn't played for half the games so far this season then why is the latter the one we've offered a contract to? My only thought can be that Diedhiou cost us a lot more and would be seen as more of a financial loss/failure if he left us for free. But then that contradicts the idea that all signings (or the like) go through Holden.

Maybe I'm missing something here?

The only thing I can think of that would explain some of Fam’s time on the bench would be his injury. We were told a few weeks ago that he could only last 15/20 mins max due to an injury, hence why he was not being selected to start matches. I have no idea how long he was carrying that injury though. 

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The more he talks, the more he’s contradicting Holden. 
Surprised no one has mentioned this faux pas :

Are any loans incoming?  Apparently the Sky commentator made it up and obviously Holden knew nothing about it. 
But later he says there were 2 they were after but were halted due to injury. This was about 10 days ago and were apparently not the ones Dean was asked about?? 
What? So, Mark & Dean apparently talk 5 or so times per day, but Dean doesn’t know the loans we were going for, or if he did, it was a different one that he thought he’d been asked about? What utter bull. 
Mr Flannel is starting to tie his stories in knots. 

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24 minutes ago, phantom said:

I'd be intrigued to know what this equipment that players have to travel to Solihull is.

There are a lot of top medical facilities not just in and around Bristol and it's various universities, something odd about this.

Or was it the nearest to where the player lived? Or is that wishful thinking after the mileage Chris Brunt was putting in when injured 

it might just be the one they are registered with and not yet changed or maybe the players preferred place to go not really a conspiracy  

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Also re recruitment. 
He stressed again how “key” he was in bringing Fam in. 

Stated again how manager is given a list of targets that the analysts have put together. 
Don’t you think most managers want to work somewhere where they say “how about I give YOU a list of players I would like, and then you can come back with the data”. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Harry said:

The more he talks, the more he’s contradicting Holden. 
Surprised no one has mentioned this faux pas :

Are any loans incoming?  Apparently the Sky commentator made it up and obviously Holden knew nothing about it. 
But later he says there were 2 they were after but were halted due to injury. This was about 10 days ago and were apparently not the ones Dean was asked about?? 
What? So, Mark & Dean apparently talk 5 or so times per day, but Dean doesn’t know the loans we were going for, or if he did, it was a different one that he thought he’d been asked about? What utter bull. 
Mr Flannel is starting to tie his stories in knots. 

And to add to that, Ashton said he has no word in who we sign. He passed the buck onto Holden. Well, if Holden didn’t know about those two loan deals that fell through, it looks like Ashton’s telling porkies again. 

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I thought Ashton was quite honest - Landowns plan 'going forward' is to save money.

 

Offer the players out of contract 50% of their previous wage (Fammy excepted it would seem) - those who blink and sign - we save half their wages 'going forward'

 

The ones that won't sign can take their chances on the open market

Lansdown will then send Ashton to the clubs near administration and offer pennies on the pound for saleable assets (players) that will probably be better than the ones we have let go.

 

It's brutal, but good business. It's how Lansdown got rich.

 

 

If Walsh agrees to a substantial paycut - he will be signed tomorrow.

 

Ashton laid out Lansdown plans quite clearly, just not in a linear order.

 

Two things though - Mawson DID go to Fulham, and Afobe used his own rehab programme away from BCFC.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Harry said:

Also re recruitment. 
He stressed again how “key” he was in bringing Fam in. 

Stated again how manager is given a list of targets that the analysts have put together. 
Don’t you think most managers want to work somewhere where they say “how about I give YOU a list of players I would like, and then you can come back with the data”. 

 

The recruitment net covers hundreds of players across dozens of countries. I would expect the manager to say we are looking for a GK or LB, show me what you've got

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2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

So do you think the club see the out of contract market as being the one the club is now targeting from a sustainability point of view?

With there being no revenue for 12 months, transfer fees are likely to drop and with it wage demands might well lower.

Could this be the start of football hitting the reset button and Ashton is hoping that he can resign players on more competitive terms, or they are looking to rebuild the squad using less expensive players.... which may, or may not, include Walsh.

I suspect you are right on the money.  If we were to let every OOC player (inc those with options) go this summer we would have a few gaps where to focus recruitment....and a much lower cost base.  By my estimates that £100k per week in wages, and amortisation would be about £7m...if we focussed on free transfers.

10 minutes ago, eardun said:

The only thing I can think of that would explain some of Fam’s time on the bench would be his injury. We were told a few weeks ago that he could only last 15/20 mins max due to an injury, hence why he was not being selected to start matches. I have no idea how long he was carrying that injury though. 

Early season he was not first choice, but has worked his way back in.

10 minutes ago, Harry said:

The more he talks, the more he’s contradicting Holden. 
Surprised no one has mentioned this faux pas :

Are any loans incoming?  Apparently the Sky commentator made it up and obviously Holden knew nothing about it. 
But later he says there were 2 they were after but were halted due to injury. This was about 10 days ago and were apparently not the ones Dean was asked about?? 
What? So, Mark & Dean apparently talk 5 or so times per day, but Dean doesn’t know the loans we were going for, or if he did, it was a different one that he thought he’d been asked about? What utter bull. 
Mr Flannel is starting to tie his stories in knots. 

I think because we saw through it all on Friday in Gregor’s interview....and can’t be arsed to do it again tonight. 🤣🤣🤣

Big inconsistencies though.  Mawson rehab another.

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2 minutes ago, DingleRed said:

The recruitment net covers hundreds of players across dozens of countries. I would expect the manager to say we are looking for a GK or LB, show me what you've got

If I was head-coach I’d want my own input to the pot going into the funnel....and I’d want good rationale if they don’t come out the other end.  If I want to play a certain way, I might know of players that I think fit that, in fact they might be crucial to that philosophy.  Holden does appear to mention Joe Williams being his first signing, with emphasis on his.

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17 minutes ago, reddoh said:

it might just be the one they are registered with and not yet changed or maybe the players preferred place to go not really a conspiracy  

I didn't use the word conspiracy, not sure why you mentioned it?

Simple question, there's lots of top place's more locally, begs the question what is so unique that requires players to travel to Solihull 

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With regards Walsh...

Maybe his injury is a lot more serious than we have been led to believe and there is a chance he won't fully recover, or if he does, he won't recover sufficiently to be a Championship player.

We saw with Korey a player who was unfortunate with injuries and backed by the club, but ultimately despite being captain and key to some of our better moments in the last few seasons, there was no sentiment and they released him.

Whilst I think we can all see Baker being the next name to go under similar circumstances (great when fit and available, but not available often enough), it could also be similar with Walsh.

And do we have headroom to be offering a player who is injured terms? Probably not in the current climate.

Course, it could be that the club are being clever and hope he is fully fit and will resign for pennies, but for someone the manager speaks so fondly of, maybe other factors are in play.

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1 minute ago, phantom said:

I didn't use the word conspiracy, not sure why you mentioned it?

Simple question, there's lots of top place's more locally, begs the question what is so unique that requires players to travel to Solihull 

ask the player not me not sure I've ever been there

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14 minutes ago, phantom said:

I didn't use the word conspiracy, not sure why you mentioned it?

Simple question, there's lots of top place's more locally, begs the question what is so unique that requires players to travel to Solihull 

I found that odd as well- sure we all did- wondered if it's Mates Rates- we have a few from West Midlands in the hierarchy. :whistle:

Nah I'm sure such a thing wouldn't happen with us? Pretty odd though!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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12 minutes ago, phantom said:

I didn't use the word conspiracy, not sure why you mentioned it?

Simple question, there's lots of top place's more locally, begs the question what is so unique that requires players to travel to Solihull 

The Solihull story does seem strange. 
I know that Solihull have a Spire Hospital. So if they attend there it’s strange, as there is a Spire 10 mins drive from the training ground. 
Unless there is another specialist private clinic. Only one I can see with full scanning facilities is Heath Lodge. 
Could be they are specialists in football, though nothing screams out. 

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33 minutes ago, Harry said:

Don’t you think most managers want to work somewhere where they say “how about I give YOU a list of players I would like, and then you can come back with the data”. 

Haven't we already established from Ashton's interview on Saturday with Gregor that this is the very reason Holden was employed. He was the only candidate in the final analysis that was prepared to work within the restrictions of the clubs chosen operating model. 

The triangular peg was happy to fit the round hole by pretending to be square. 

🤣

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One other detail...I mentioned on previous threads that it stands to reason that the Athletic story about player dissatisfaction re injuries/recovery came from the Wasserman agency, and Ashton pretty much confirmed as such.

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7 minutes ago, Harry said:

The Solihull story does seem strange. 
I know that Solihull have a Spire Hospital. So if they attend there it’s strange, as there is a Spire 10 mins drive from the training ground. 
Unless there is another specialist private clinic. Only one I can see with full scanning facilities is Heath Lodge. 
Could be they are specialists in football, though nothing screams out. 

Nuffield in Clifton do scans - private hospital.

No reason at all not to use them.

Their new Chesterfield unit actually featured in local rag:

Direct quote - "digital mammography, MRI, CT and high-definition endoscopy together with “five-star, state-of-the-art facilities.” According to the Bristol Post

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21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

For PAYE only, and repayable out of future solidarity Payments- at least that was the blueprint on release.

Borrowing from the future...


Was not so successful at the box office as this one.

back to the future GIF

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

The Solihull story does seem strange. 
I know that Solihull have a Spire Hospital. So if they attend there it’s strange, as there is a Spire 10 mins drive from the training ground. 
Unless there is another specialist private clinic. Only one I can see with full scanning facilities is Heath Lodge. 
Could be they are specialists in football, though nothing screams out. 

The other additional conspiracy theory is that we’ve recently heard of going to a different specialist for a second opinion.  So is the Solihull one the “new” trusted specialist?  What happened to the old one?

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