Individual Quality v Tactics

[TomThumb84]

Wow.

How did we win that??!!

We will not win many matches playing that way. Huddersfield, with 2 away wins from 12 came to us and dominated.

Now, thanks to some individual moments of brilliance from Semenyo, Palmer and Diedhiou, we have taken the points. The woodwork, Bentley, Mawson and Kalas also need worthy mentions. Huddersfield made some poor choices in the final third but also hit said woodwork three times.

My point is, we won that game thanks to some good fortune and some split second instinctive moments. Brilliant - and a good win in the record books, but how can we retreat into ourselves like that from 30 minutes on?? We had no shots on target after the second goal, and substituted all but one attacking threat come the end as we camped 6 across the back and 3 just in front of our 18 yard box.

People endlessly talk about our depleted squad and injuries, when these players are back they will still need to follow instruction, systems, and plans from the sidelines, and right now, it looks all over the place.

This was Huddersfield, no way will be close games out like that consistently. Not possible. I’m pleased we won but worrying how the game went and also the relief and jubilation at the end was a bit out of kilter with putting away a side in awful form, 14th in the table.

Still, on we go!!

[steveybadger]

I’m going to say it, I thought Huddersfield we’re excellent. Now that doesn’t mean we didn’t contribute to making them look good, but they were still excellent.

Not stirring or trying to deflect from our performance. Just credit where it’s due.

[TomThumb84]

1 minute ago, steveybadger said:

I’m going to say it, I thought Huddersfield we’re excellent. Now that doesn’t mean we didn’t contribute to making them look good, but they were still excellent.

Not stirring or trying to deflect from our performance. Just credit where it’s due.

I thought they looked really good too, but then I played in a defence v attack training session once and drove home thinking I was Zico.

It’s the age old “were they good or were they allowed to look good” question.

In 12 away games this season Huddersfield have only been “excellent” enough to win twice.

[Numero Uno]

27 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

It's hard to really work out how to get the best out of this team.

Today and Norwich was terrible, and if those kind of performances continue then I expect Holden to change the system again.

Maybe going back to 352. Desperately need Williams fit and Paterson nearly ready will be a big boost.

I know many won't agree, but I think we are really missing O'Dowda. His pressing, pace and drive. When in winning positions there's not many better than him in forcing us up the pitch a bit which we were completely incapable of for much of tonights game.

If Rowe is out I can see us going three at the back.

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

14 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah possibly. Maybe Nurse goes there.

To be fair I thought Mariappa played very well there. Very solid

Mariappa was ok, all of the problems were coming from Toffolo down the other side.

[Sheltons Army]

18 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Yeah possibly. Maybe Nurse goes there.

To be fair I thought Mariappa played very well there. Very solid

Nurse is ........shock.......injured

[Davefevs]

You could have Lampard and Gerrard in our midfield tonight, but if you leave 60 yards between you two CBs and your forwards, and then ask your midfield who are halfway between to compete for loose ball, you’re setting up to fail.  It resembled first half v Preston.  There literally is no need for Bentley to take a long goal-kick with Kalas and Mawson alongside him.  Wait 10 seconds, let them jog 45 yards up the pitch and then kick it and battle for a ball in a 20 yards space (not 60).

It just invites them on and allows pockets.

It wasn’t the only thing....Huddersfield also played some lovely stuff.  We did too in the opening 25-30, so not all bad, but we have to find ways to stop teams having dominant spells....especially spells of 15 minutes plus, or in today’s case 60 minutes.

Thats where leaders on the pitch and the coaches come onto their own....or should do.

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, TomThumb84 said:

In 12 away games this season Huddersfield have only been “excellent” enough to win twice.

...and they didn’t win this away game either - so they’ve still only won twice away from home ...

[TomThumb84]

10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

...and they didn’t win this away game either - so they’ve still only won twice away from home ...

My point is in the full context of my earlier post, teams who come to us, are “excellent”, muster 27 shots against us, and dominate the football as Huddersfield did, will rarely lose.

Last night was a complete anomaly.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I wonder if that is because of a lack of pressing in forward areas.

poor because we didn’t press as a team, not just the forwards.

I thought we pressed quite well first 25 mins and then as the intensity dropped we became deeper and deeper.

we did, because we pressed as a team.  As forwards pressed the splitting CBs, Vyner typically pressed the player on the ball, often the keeper. The defenders were on the half way line ready to tackle intercept a straight ball.  But as soon as the break the high press they turn you around and naturally we drop off.

Huddersfield didnt have a game on the weekend so were maybe fresher, and we had Vyner, Bakinson, Palmer, Diedhiou who all put in great shifts on the weekend, and do not seem like high stamina players.

Vyner has great stamina.  But when your midfield have to start doing 20 yard “doggies” to engage their man, you’re leaving yourself open to getting passed around.....credit to Huddersfield too.

Semenyo and Wells being the only players that seem to have great energy levels and could keep up the intensity.

If we had a couple of Weimann, O'Dowda, Paterson and Williams as options then maybe we press better and the defence would be a bit higher up the pitch.

possibly, but even then it’s got to be as a team.

I can't really blame the defence for sitting so deep last night, as I think a higher line would have seen Huddersfield players getting themselves in behind too easily.

but the issue becomes that when you can’t get close to engage the passer they can get their head up and pick a pass, runners make confident runs.  We have to be brave and set a high line, because it’s a vicious circle, if you drop off, you make it harder for yourself to press the passer.  But of course if w3 set a high line then your midfield have got to be committed to closing down too.  Look how easily we made a bad pass under a press.

Of course it’s not as easy as I make out, but we don’t help ourselves either by poor structure.

[Numero Uno]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You could have Lampard and Gerrard in our midfield tonight, but if you leave 60 yards between you two CBs and your forwards, and then ask your midfield who are halfway between to compete for loose ball, you’re setting up to fail.  It resembled first half v Preston.  There literally is no need for Bentley to take a long goal-kick with Kalas and Mawson alongside him.  Wait 10 seconds, let them jog 45 yards up the pitch and then kick it and battle for a ball in a 20 yards space (not 60).

It just invites them on and allows pockets.

It wasn’t the only thing....Huddersfield also played some lovely stuff.  We did too in the opening 25-30, so not all bad, but we have to find ways to stop teams having dominant spells....especially spells of 15 minutes plus, or in today’s case 60 minutes.

Thats where leaders on the pitch and the coaches come onto their own....or should do.

The biggest problem for us is we have no leader on that pitch who can make sure the Managers instructions are carried out. Not one single player. That can only be rectified by bringing a leader in unfortunately. That is easily our biggest issue and why we go 25 minute spells chasing shadows. Bakinson was unbelievably sloppy for a spell last night but where is the player alongside him telling him to sharpen up his act and wake the **** up?

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The biggest problem for us is we have no leader on that pitch who can make sure the Managers instructions are carried out. Not one single player. That can only be rectified by bringing a leader in unfortunately. That is easily our biggest issue and why we go 25 minute spells chasing shadows. Bakinson was unbelievably sloppy for a spell last night but where is the player alongside him telling him to sharpen up his act and wake the **** up?

Very, very true.

Im hoping Williams is that man.

In a bizarre way Tammy was that man.  He dragged up standards because nobody want to let down what was an incredible talent.

[Prinny]

There are 7 teams above us.

In the 7 games vs them so far we have 2 points. We play 6 games against them in the next ten. There's an FA cup match vs "Prem" opposition and Derby away who have turned it around a little. There's only Cardiff and Barnsley at home who we "should" beat.

We will see in the next ten games if the recent up turn in results is a) Good players coming back and playing worse teams, or b) Holden getting it right. You cannot let good teams who are playing well have 60 minutes of dominance against you and expect anything.

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, Prinny said:

There are 7 teams above us.

In the 7 games vs them so far we have 2 points. We play 6 games against them in the next ten. There's an FA cup match vs "Prem" opposition and Derby away who have turned it around a little. There's only Cardiff and Barnsley at home who we "should" beat.

We will see in the next ten games if the recent up turn in results is a) Good players coming back and playing worse teams, or b) Holden getting it right. You cannot let good teams who are playing well have 60 minutes of dominance against you and expect anything.

No, Norwich proved what happens when a quality team is given far too much of the ball. I think our recent upturn in results at least puts the silly relegation posts (by the negative posters who can only control their anger by writing bile) to bed but the performances should also put play off hopes to bed also. Points wise we are around it but quality wise nowhere near it. I know stranger things have happened but I'm not sure I would want us playing a decent side when it matters over two legs - we would get destroyed imo.

If, however, we are serious about trying to reach the play offs we could do with Kasey Palmer telling us which 20-30 minutes of each week he is going to turn up for BEFORE THE TEAM IS PICKED and we can make the required substitutions around him.............easy!!

[Numero Uno]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Very, very true.

Im hoping Williams is that man.

In a bizarre way Tammy was that man.  He dragged up standards because nobody want to let down what was an incredible talent.

Our whole obsession with DNA and stuff like that, in my opinion, actually means that we will never sign a true leader, someone who couldn't care less who he upsets along the way as long as everyone is pulling in the right direction and doing what they are paid to do...........meaning he picks up his win bonus more often than not!! Someone who will pull you up on the pitch and is prepared to ask you in front of the whole team and coaching staff at half time if you are able to pass a ball ten yards (or words to that effect) if two or three successive ten yard passes go astray. No, that type of player has the wrong DNA (for BRISTOL CITY FC)...............but many of the great sides have had that "ultra driven" type of individual pulling the strings..........players you wouldn't dare get on the wrong side of BUT also players who would argue with, kick or fight anybody on your behalf once you have their respect.