Savino Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Bristol Bears trampled Bath tonight and remain on course for the Premiership title and potentially top English club slot in Europe, or top club, who knows? How did this happen? The football club has been out of the top level for decades. Maybe the egg chasers recruited a top international rugby manager for starters, and subsequently also recruited or developed the right blend of players. Alright, I’ve only been supporting my beloved football club since the 60’s so what do I know? Seems we’re always destined to be the “nearly men” of the football league, but when, under the current ownership, do we finally, actually, get some serious, high profile, business attention and priority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Oh good, the weekly thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 In one word...money. It costs a hell of a lot less in Rugby to get to the top of the tree than Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savino Posted January 29, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 OK, fair point - but I can name a large proportion of, eg the Championship, who seem to have managed it - Bournemouth, Reading, Norwich, Cardiff ... and many more, it’s not an impressive list really is it? Just embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Hay just enjoy it for what it is. Been said so many times,no comparison. Bristol top of the league sounds good yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadredfred Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Completely different ball game. It’s just not possible to compare. Just enjoy it. They are great to watch, improving every season and they’re our city’s team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 *sigh* Cost of investing in top class talent on the pitch and off the pitch in rugby vs that in football? Rugby's wage bill £6.5m ish, our wage bill? £33m which is just under mid table Bristol were the big fish of the 2nd division, a little bit of funding all but guaranteed them promotion where upon reaching the top division they could really afford to bring in top talent. Competition, half the number of teams in the rugby second tier not all who have a realistic chance of promotion. Football any number of teams in our division are capable of competing Just for starters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Controller Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Isn't Pat Lam the highest paid coach in Rugby Union (£800k a year)? The average Championship manager is paid £878k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric04 Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Exeter Chiefs are currently Premiership and European Champions. That tells you all you need to know about the difference between football and rugby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 29, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 52 minutes ago, sinenomine said: Isn't Pat Lam the highest paid coach in Rugby Union (£800k a year)? The average Championship manager is paid £878k. Exactly, shows the gulf in difference. I never understand people who try to compare the two sides. Completely different wage structures and salary caps. I find it amusing how City supporters feel hard done by that a fraction of the investment brings more success for the Bears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 29, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Savino said: OK, fair point - but I can name a large proportion of, eg the Championship, who seem to have managed it - Bournemouth, Reading, Norwich, Cardiff ... and many more, it’s not an impressive list really is it? Just embarrassing. Managed what? I thought you were comparing two Bristol Sport sides? None of those you mentioned have a rugby side connected to them. I'm lost as to what point you are making Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 29, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Lrrr said: Competition, half the number of teams in the rugby second tier not all who have a realistic chance of promotion. Football any number of teams in our division are capable of competing Your points are spot on but you'll be lucky to find more than two sides in the rugby second tier with a realistic chance of promotion. Forgetting league position the majority of sides in that league have no financial clout to get promoted and most have grounds that make the minimal look like Wembley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, phantom said: Managed what? I thought you were comparing two Bristol Sport sides? None of those you mentioned have a rugby side connected to them. I'm lost as to what point you are making That Lansdown should be investing like he does with the rugby........ despite the fact he invests more each year into football..... Wonder if the bears fans are like 'wish Lansdown would invest as much in rugby as he does for football' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Just now, phantom said: Your points are spot on but you'll be lucky to find more than two sides in the rugby second tier with a realistic chance of promotion. Forgetting league position the majority of sides in that league have no financial clout to get promoted and most have grounds that make the minimal look like Wembley Yeah should really have phrased it more like that as its more what I meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slack Bladder Posted January 29, 2021 Report Share Posted January 29, 2021 Are you suggesting the Bears wouldn't be in the position they are if they had appointed a rookie coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Savino said: OK, fair point - but I can name a large proportion of, eg the Championship, who seem to have managed it - Bournemouth, Reading, Norwich, Cardiff ... and many more, it’s not an impressive list really is it? Just embarrassing. Embarrassing..? I think that says more about you, than it does anyone else. We have developed into a top half championship club, now we need to push on to the ne t level and become serious play off contenders. It takes a hell of alot more time and/or money to progress in football, than Rugby. If you need a quick fix, then you've probably chosen the wrong team to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, phantom said: Your points are spot on but you'll be lucky to find more than two sides in the rugby second tier with a realistic chance of promotion. Forgetting league position the majority of sides in that league have no financial clout to get promoted and most have grounds that make the minimal look like Wembley Is it not true that most wouldn't even be allowed promotion, if they earned it...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 30, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, Slack Bladder said: Are you suggesting the Bears wouldn't be in the position they are if they had appointed a rookie coach? Nobody could ever say for certain 13 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: Is it not true that most wouldn't even be allowed promotion, if they earned it...? Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted January 30, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: It takes a hell of alot more time and/or money to progress in football, than Rugby. Another factor, and this is more aimed at the OP, but references above. Even when Bristol were at their worst in recent times they were always in and around the top 4 in the second tier. That would make them the 16th best side in the country. Then they were around top two (14th best in country) You'll see how much smaller the gap is for top rugby clubs compared to football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 26 minutes ago, phantom said: Another factor, and this is more aimed at the OP, but references above. Even when Bristol were at their worst in recent times they were always in and around the top 4 in the second tier. That would make them the 16th best side in the country. Then they were around top two (14th best in country) You'll see how much smaller the gap is for top rugby clubs compared to football Good point. You could justify saying that there are probably 35..? Football clubs with hopes/expectation of being in the top flight (let alone challenging at that level) Wheres what are ther in Rugby..? 14 clubs..? Even leaving aside the whole format of Rugby, where nobody really gives a toss about finishing top, as long as they finish in the top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Whatever. Devastating win against Bath last night. A record tally against them as well as a record win in the Prem. if only we could’ve been there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 By and large you can't compare the two, for the reasons others have given. There are points of comparison though. For instance, Mark Tainton is actually qualified for his role but Mark Ashton isn't. Furthermore, the Bears have a philosophy, a plan and an established way of playing. On the football side it gets increasingly hard to see any of these. At best we say one thing then do the opposite. So there are things to learn from the Bears. I doubt we will learn them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savino Posted January 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 8 hours ago, phantom said: Managed what? I thought you were comparing two Bristol Sport sides? None of those you mentioned have a rugby side connected to them. I'm lost as to what point you are making This was in response to the point that it costs a lot of money to get to the top of the tree in football - that others (your regular clubs historically at our level) have managed it. What nobody on here seems to want to see is that, for the football side of Bristol Sport, there has to be a really good business case for Premier League football, with decent returns. But if they don’t want to eat at the big table then let’s all just sigh, shrug our shoulders and have a pop at anybody who dares to suggest that it ought to be possible for us. I just find it frustrating year after year like most of our fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, Savino said: This was in response to the point that it costs a lot of money to get to the top of the tree in football - that others (your regular clubs historically at our level) have managed it. What nobody on here seems to want to see is that, for the football side of Bristol Sport, there has to be a really good business case for Premier League football, with decent returns. But if they don’t want to eat at the big table then let’s all just sigh, shrug our shoulders and have a pop at anybody who dares to suggest that it ought to be possible for us. I just find it frustrating year after year like most of our fans. But we have to ignore the rules in place that stop the owner from just throwing more money in the pot? Are we to pretend that building a new ground and training facilities for the future, are only designed to keep us where we are at best, or are a vanity project at worst? The investment is there for all to see and yet, as is the case in many walks of society, people are only happy if it is spent the way they would have spent it. If anyone seriously considers that the Lansdowns are happier throwing in £30m+ a year just to keep us afloat, than they would be in reaching the level that actually generates income, then I don't think there is any reasoning with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFC II Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 30 minutes ago, Savino said: This was in response to the point that it costs a lot of money to get to the top of the tree in football - that others (your regular clubs historically at our level) have managed it. What nobody on here seems to want to see is that, for the football side of Bristol Sport, there has to be a really good business case for Premier League football, with decent returns. But if they don’t want to eat at the big table then let’s all just sigh, shrug our shoulders and have a pop at anybody who dares to suggest that it ought to be possible for us. I just find it frustrating year after year like most of our fans. What does any of that have to do with the rugby club though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savino Posted January 30, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 32 minutes ago, JBFC II said: What does any of that have to do with the rugby club though? It shows that they had the vision and ambition to get to the very top of an elite sport. We know that this is smaller scale financially, but what an achievement. Now please can we have the same vision and ambition for the football club, because the infrastructure (asset base) is in place, and it’s time to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Pat Lam came in and decided he was going to play a New Zealand style of rugby, he then recruited players that would fit that style of rugby. The English rugby top flight has been a bore fest for years, and other teams just can’t cope with playing against open expansive rugby. Unfortunately we haven’t employed a football coach with a strategy and plan that would see players signed to fit into how we would play. The rugby plan has been clear and concise, the football plan more like a car boot sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Pat Lam came in and decided he was going to play a New Zealand style of rugby, he then recruited players that would fit that style of rugby. The English rugby top flight has been a bore fest for years, and other teams just can’t cope with playing against open expansive rugby. Unfortunately we haven’t employed a football coach with a strategy and plan that would see players signed to fit into how we would play. The rugby plan has been clear and concise, the football plan more like a car boot sale. Exactly so, see my post above, though yours is more concise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 14 hours ago, Savino said: Bristol Bears trampled Bath tonight and remain on course for the Premiership title and potentially top English club slot in Europe, or top club, who knows? How did this happen? The football club has been out of the top level for decades. Maybe the egg chasers recruited a top international rugby manager for starters, and subsequently also recruited or developed the right blend of players. Alright, I’ve only been supporting my beloved football club since the 60’s so what do I know? Seems we’re always destined to be the “nearly men” of the football league, but when, under the current ownership, do we finally, actually, get some serious, high profile, business attention and priority? I saw you play, Ray ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1t_ref_again Posted January 30, 2021 Report Share Posted January 30, 2021 Don't normally watch the Bears even through used to play rugby not football. But just watched the highlights and very impressive display. A positive that can come from the Bears doing so well, apart from generating income and raising profile, it may eventually provide a road map and way to get the football club to the Prem https://www.bristolbearsrugby.com/news/highlights-bristol-bears-48-3-bath-rugby/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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