For the love of God, sack him!

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

What’s also glaringly obvious Dave is also the inconsistent and unreliable individual and team performances (Not helped it has to be said by constant formation changes and players playing out of position)

 

I don’t know whether you keep your ratings score anywhere but it would make an interesting read over the season and how many players we have that hit a 7 on any consistent basis , how many games in a row 

I do keep ratings, but on paper.

I normally mark in the range 5-7, until this season I’ve rarely gone below 5.  This season I have regularly.  I’ll always have the odd rose-tinted 8 or 9.

The inconsistency is alarming.

Individuals cannot raise their levels when playing badly.  Players can’t raise the levels of their teammates either.

The one standout has been Bentley.  Kalas to an extent too, Mawson also, but less games.  Generally defensive players.  Tells a story.

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I do keep ratings, but on paper.

I normally mark in the range 5-7, until this season I’ve rarely gone below 5.  This season I have regularly.  I’ll always have the odd rose-tinted 8 or 9.

The inconsistency is alarming.

Individuals cannot raise their levels when playing badly.  Players can’t raise the levels of their teammates either.

The one standout has been Bentley.  Kalas to an extent too, Mawson also, but less games.  Generally defensive players.  Tells a story.

I also think it’s telling that if everyone was fit , I hate to think how many formations and individuals would be seen as our best team 

If you are heading in the right direction , Id suggest those fan bases would largely agree on best formations and 7 or 8 of their best starting 11 

In our case how many players would be in everyone’s side 

Bentley 

Kalas 

Mawson (Loan) 

Not sure there’s another 

[2015]

Reading twitter last night made me realise a little bit, how easy we have got it, in context.
I read a lot of fans' from other clubs posts and they are as unhappy as we are many of them. Notably Swindon Town fans who have had an awful January by the looks of it and calling for their owners head. It was enjoyable reading indeed!

Lansbury is a decent signing.
 

Bit of context - we haven't got it that bad really!

[RedRock]

Not ‘Forever Bristol’, more ‘Forever Inconsistent’. 

 

if we are to break through this glass ceiling we have got to get rid of the reason for, and the apologists of, inconsistency. 

Whether the fault of player development, player acquisition, tactics and/or selection, inconsistency - with a (very) few notable exceptions - has become the norm. It has been accepted and is ingrained in the Club and some of its supporters. 

We will never get anywhere with players putting in 5/6 out of 10 performances. They have to hit 7/10 on a consistent basis. 

Listen to any Premier League Manager - consistency is the key to sustained success. 

 

It’s no good having ‘strap lines’ around the building like ‘continuous improvement’, ‘striving for excellence’ if you tolerate people putting in rank average performances on a regular basis. 

We’re soft to the very core. I thought it was a ‘Bristol Thing’ but what a revelation Pat Lam and the Rugby Academy has been in bringing through young Bristol talent. Don’t think Pat Lam or his coaching staff could be branded either ‘apologists’ or ‘soft’. 

It can be done then, but only if all associated with the Club become more demanding of themselves and others and don’t accept mediocre as being ‘ok’. 

Right... let’s start a new dawn against Brentford.

[robin_unreliant]

11 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Reading twitter last night made me realise a little bit, how easy we have got it, in context.
I read a lot of fans' from other clubs posts and they are as unhappy as we are many of them. Notably Swindon Town fans who have had an awful January by the looks of it and calling for their owners head. It was enjoyable reading indeed!

Lansbury is a decent signing.
 

Bit of context - we haven't got it that bad really!

Having watched a reasonable number of non-city championship games on Sky I agree that it isn't just us. 

Most of the games I've seen have been pretty poor entertainment. Norwich and Brentford notable exceptions but not every time. 

I do think the lack of fans has had a bigger impact than is perhaps acknowledged. 

[2015]

2 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Having watched a reasonable number of non-city championship games on Sky I agree that it isn't just us. 

Most of the games I've seen have been pretty poor entertainment. Norwich and Brentford notable exceptions but not every time. 

I do think the lack of fans has had a bigger impact than is perhaps acknowledged. 

Yeah I agree. We're poor to watch without question and have been for quite a long time now and that needs changing, but I haven't watched many games recently, even in the Premier League and been overly enthused by the entertainment on show.
We've had it quite easy over the last few years really, when I look at the likes of Ipswich, Sunderland, Bolton, Portsmouth which are all clubs I consider bigger than ourselves in League 1 and below. I'd rather be where we are, we just need to sort out performances on the pitch as they are not what I consider to be worth watching.
Reading other fans' comments from other clubs last night made me realise that we don't have it as bad as we think we do. 

I'm hoping Holden is just in charge for this season only, just to see where the finances are post covid-19 and for some continuity post-Johnson, for us to then eventually get a Manager that will kick us on.

Just trying to put a positive spin on it all. Yes, the football is dire at the moment and i haven't been entertained regularly by City in a long time and it doesn't help when the club come out saying they're looking at promotion when we're clearly no where near good enough. However, would you rather us be scrapping in the top half of the Championship or just being a big club in League 1?! I know which one I'd rather!

[RedHienz]

4 hours ago, Monkeh said:

I for one expect a Bristol City team with the best keeper in the championship, over 30 million pounds worth of talent in the back 4, full international players in midfield

2 5 million strikers up front to at least be competitive and register some ******* shots on goal more then 4 we've hand in the last 3 matchs

Stop using injuries as an excuse for failure,

We still had the most expensive squad in the entire history on the club out on that pitch against Huddersfield and Derby and we put in performances I'd be embarrassed to associate with an under 11's side

I did say the football is dire, you may have missed that. 

Injuries have more of an effect then people just not being able to play, systems change and teams need to adapt to that. It is no excuse for some tepid performances - like most I expect more but does impact somewhat and id love to see a more fluid and positive performance becoming the norm, sadly we are functional right now.

Its dross but I'm actually happy with the league position, imagine we will finish 10-15 and take stock ready for next season.

 

 

[Beatnik]

I have never seen City play such boring, unimaginative football. 

I have had the privilege to witness worse teams, but this current set up is excruciating to watch. 

However I don't think anything will change anytime soon. 

The intransigence of all involved is killing any enthusiasm. 

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

6 minutes ago, Beatnik said:

I have never seen City play such boring, unimaginative football. 

O’Driscoll 2014? McInnes 2013?  Millen 2012?  Tinnion 2005? Jordan 1995?

Lots of contenders, even in the last 25 years.  For me, this season still hasn’t reached the depths of the McInnes era.  Also, without crowds, and without being in the ground, all sport appears boring to some extent.  It’s taken me a long time to get used to tv football during lockdown and I wouldn’t be without it, but it’s a pale imitation of the usual game in almost all respects.

[BigTone]

1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

O’Driscoll 2014? McInnes 2013?  Millen 2012?  Tinnion 2005? Jordan 1995?

Lots of contenders, even in the last 25 years.  For me, this season still hasn’t reached the depths of the McInnes era.  Also, without crowds, and without being in the ground, all sport appears boring to some extent.  It’s taken me a long time to get used to tv football during lockdown and I wouldn’t be without it, but it’s a pale imitation of the usual game in almost all respects.

Much like you I am finding TV football a bit flat and more like a training game. Not the same without the atmosphere of a stadium with fans in it.

[slartibartfast]

The big trouble for me with DH is........he never appears in charge. Say what you like about Lee, no one (in interviews) has any doubt that he's the boss ! 

When DH is interviewed and asked questions, he reminds me of the guy on the phone that when you want answers you get " The person you  really need to talk to is on the other phone, can I help ? "       

[TonyTonyTony]

Ill make a prediction : Holden will get sacked.

So there you go - you heard it here first

[M.D]

5 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Ill make a prediction : Holden will get sacked.

So there you go - you heard it here first

Its 'when' is the question

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, 2015 said:

Yeah I agree. We're poor to watch without question and have been for quite a long time now and that needs changing, but I haven't watched many games recently, even in the Premier League and been overly enthused by the entertainment on show.
We've had it quite easy over the last few years really, when I look at the likes of Ipswich, Sunderland, Bolton, Portsmouth which are all clubs I consider bigger than ourselves in League 1 and below. I'd rather be where we are, we just need to sort out performances on the pitch as they are not what I consider to be worth watching.
Reading other fans' comments from other clubs last night made me realise that we don't have it as bad as we think we do. 

I'm hoping Holden is just in charge for this season only, just to see where the finances are post covid-19 and for some continuity post-Johnson, for us to then eventually get a Manager that will kick us on.

Just trying to put a positive spin on it all. Yes, the football is dire at the moment and i haven't been entertained regularly by City in a long time and it doesn't help when the club come out saying they're looking at promotion when we're clearly no where near good enough. However, would you rather us be scrapping in the top half of the Championship or just being a big club in League 1?! I know which one I'd rather!

Maybe not the best examples as all have either had sustained spells in the top flight, reached cup finals, been in Europe etc over the past 10/15 years. Yes we are in a better position today but I suspect their fans would rather have been on their particular journey over that time than ours. I also suspect at least one of them will reach the top flight again before we do. 

[steviestevieneville]

38 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Ill make a prediction : Holden will get sacked.

So there you go - you heard it here first

99% of managers will get sacked at some point 

[Beatnik]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

O’Driscoll 2014? McInnes 2013?  Millen 2012?  Tinnion 2005? Jordan 1995?

Lots of contenders, even in the last 25 years.  For me, this season still hasn’t reached the depths of the McInnes era.  Also, without crowds, and without being in the ground, all sport appears boring to some extent.  It’s taken me a long time to get used to tv football during lockdown and I wouldn’t be without it, but it’s a pale imitation of the usual game in almost all respects.

Perhaps I am being forgetful, but I cannot remember a time when shots at goal were so few and far between. 

Sideways passes & backwards passes seem to be the order of the day. 

Rather heroic second best, than unimaginative, negativity 

[bristolmoose]

54 minutes ago, M.D said:

Its 'when' is the question

Going out on a limb here...when the board decide to dispense with his services. 

[M.D]

Just now, bristolmoose said:

Going out on a limb here...when the board decide to dispense with his services. 

Think your onto something

[old_eastender]

1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Ill make a prediction : Holden will get sacked.

So there you go - you heard it here first

 

1 hour ago, M.D said:

Its 'when' is the question

Perhaps if we get done 7-1 by Brentford, it will be Holden's time like it was for Tins when we lost 7-1 to Swansea.

[Numero Uno]

19 hours ago, BigTone said:

I wonder given what's happening in the world, how many will gamble on buying a season ticket. It won't be the football being dished up that will be the deciding factor.

It was only a few weeks back that all was rosy and fans would be allowed back into stadiums. Within about 48 hours that all went tits up.

Will it happen again ..... yes is my bet regrettably.

 

I do agree with your general point but you always get some that waver and what we are dishing up at the moment won’t help those decide to buy a ticket imo.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Beatnik said:

Perhaps I am being forgetful, but I cannot remember a time when shots at goal were so few and far between. 

Sideways passes & backwards passes seem to be the order of the day. 

Rather heroic second best, than unimaginative, negativity 

It’s not the sideways and backwards passing that’s the issue it’s the fact that when we go forwards we often give the ball away!!

[LondonBristolian]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Agree.  It’s not like we’ve had to pick players that are really not up to it (some posters might not agree with that).  Every player has at some point played a part in good performances, results, etc.  I don’t doubt that it’s not always been our strongest eleven, but there is still a base level of expectation that has not been achieved several times, even if only for a half on some occasions.  I pull my hair out at some of the games, and I’m generally pretty forgiving.

I think what's most frustrating for me, which is a continuation from the Johnson area, is that we are two thirds of the way into the season and it's still not very clear to me how we want to play. Of course the injuries haven't helped and most Championship clubs experience a degree of inconsistency but there have been several games this season where I've not even understood what it is that we are trying to do tactically and what the gameplan was supposed to be. 

I think @Sheltons Armyis bang on about the fact that there is no clarity at all on our best team or best formation but I don't think I have a clue what sort of football we'd be playing if everyone was fit or what Holden's vision for our football is.

I don't necessarily think we should sack him. I don't think he should have been given the role in the first place but, having done so, I don't think he has done badly enough to convince me he deserves to be sacked. But I've not seen anything that convinces me he was the right appointment and I'd need to see a lot more to think he deserves a second season. 

[Sheltons Army]

17 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think what's most frustrating for me, which is a continuation from the Johnson area, is that we are two thirds of the way into the season and it's still not very clear to me how we want to play. Of course the injuries haven't helped and most Championship clubs experience a degree of inconsistency but there have been several games this season where I've not even understood what it is that we are trying to do tactically and what the gameplan was supposed to be. 

I think @Sheltons Armyis bang on about the fact that there is no clarity at all on our best team or best formation but I don't think I have a clue what sort of football we'd be playing if everyone was fit or what Holden's vision for our football is.

I don't necessarily think we should sack him. I don't think he should have been given the role in the first place but, having done so, I don't think he has done badly enough to convince me he deserves to be sacked. But I've not seen anything that convinces me he was the right appointment and I'd need to see a lot more to think he deserves a second season. 

It’s even more baffling when they are constantly talking (MA)  about lack of time on training ground and thus our ‘England Youth Coaches’ haven't had hardly any time to work on 11 v 11 

Exactly the time we should have a system , and formation that we work to , with the odd tweak if necessary 

Accepting that injuries may interfere with this at times but I’d suggest that playing the odd player out of ideal position to maintain our base plan , would be more productive / consistent than constantly changing systems and personnel.
 

(IMHO)

 

Not easy , I accept

As I did under Johnson , I don’t believe you can coach multiple systems to any form of maximum , nor do I believe that there are many players that can absorb all the information required to do so , and then apply it.

Add this to the continual changes in selection under both (Holden has some mitigation here - Johnson did not)

As under Johnson , Players are constantly having to adapt to systems with someone different playing in front of them , to their left / right ..... that can never be efficient - making adaptations extra hard 

and IMHO you are asking the virtual impossible for players - Good sides are built on partnerships , and units all over the pitch 

CB / CB

CB/ FB

RFB / RM

etc etc
 

Klopp doesn’t mess around with a system , and nor does Pep , tweaks , not constant change of system 

 

Was one of my biggest bugbears with Johnson , Holden has some mitigation , but time is beginning to tick for me - as injured players Return , he and his lieutenants need to start showing a plan 

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

It’s even more baffling when they are constantly talking (MA)  about lack of time on training ground and thus our ‘England Youth Coaches’ haven't had hardly any time to work on 11 v 11 

Exactly the time we should have a system , and formation that we work to , with the odd tweak if necessary 

Accepting that injuries may interfere with this at times but I’d suggest that playing the odd player out of ideal position to maintain our base plan , would be more productive / consistent than constantly changing systems and personnel.
 

(IMHO)

 

Not easy , I accept

As I did under Johnson , I don’t believe you can coach multiple systems to any form of maximum , nor do I believe that there are many players that can absorb all the information required to do so , and then apply it.

Add this to the continual changes in selection under both (Holden has some mitigation here - Johnson did not)

As under Johnson , Players are constantly having to adapt to systems with someone different playing in front of them , to their left / right ..... that can never be efficient - making adaptations extra hard 

and IMHO you are asking the virtual impossible for players - Good sides are built on partnerships , and units all over the pitch 

CB / CB

CB/ FB

RFB / RM

etc etc
 

Klopp doesn’t mess around with a system , and nor does Pep , tweaks , not constant change of system 

 

Was one of my biggest bugbears with Johnson , Holden has some mitigation , but time is beginning to tick for me - as injured players Return , he and his lieutenants need to start showing a plan 

Fully in agreement with all of that.

[LondonBristolian]

5 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

It’s even more baffling when they are constantly talking (MA)  about lack of time on training ground and thus our ‘England Youth Coaches’ haven't had hardly any time to work on 11 v 11 

Exactly the time we should have a system , and formation that we work to , with the odd tweak if necessary 

Accepting that injuries may interfere with this at times but I’d suggest that playing the odd player out of ideal position to maintain our base plan , would be more productive / consistent than constantly changing systems and personnel.
 

(IMHO)

 

Not easy , I accept

As I did under Johnson , I don’t believe you can coach multiple systems to any form of maximum , nor do I believe that there are many players that can absorb all the information required to do so , and then apply it.

Add this to the continual changes in selection under both (Holden has some mitigation here - Johnson did not)

As under Johnson , Players are constantly having to adapt to systems with someone different playing in front of them , to their left / right ..... that can never be efficient - making adaptations extra hard 

and IMHO you are asking the virtual impossible for players - Good sides are built on partnerships , and units all over the pitch 

CB / CB

CB/ FB

RFB / RM

etc etc
 

Klopp doesn’t mess around with a system , and nor does Pep , tweaks , not constant change of system 

 

Was one of my biggest bugbears with Johnson , Holden has some mitigation , but time is beginning to tick for me - as injured players Return , he and his lieutenants need to start showing a plan 

Agree with all this.

What is really frustrating to me is the whole idea of having someone in a Director of Football role - which is what Mark Ashton essentially does, even if his title and role is not that - is to ensure there is a consistent long-term strategy at the club and that the long term strategy informs everything from the youth team to the signings to the coaching to the choice of manager. That's not to say every manager needs to play the exact same formation but there should be a clear idea of the style of football we want to play, the youth players should be coached that style and approach, the signings should be made because they suit that style and approach and the manager should be appointed because he is someone who works within that philosophy. 

But that does not seem to be in place at all. And my issue is not just that Holden doesn't seem to have a plan, and it was never clear if Johnson had one either. It is also that the question of whether they had a plan - and, if so, how that planned fitted into the style of football the club wanted to play an how that plan suited the signings the club had made and wanted to make in the future - should literally have been the most important hiring criteria when the appointments were made.

[dREDful]

How about now? It's getting worse by the game. 

[Bassomylord]

Completely out of his depth.

[Scrumpylegs]

Can’t see any escape for Dean after this. Would expect the axe to fall now. They will HAVE to appoint an external candidate now as promotion from within has now proven, beyond any question, to be a failure!!!

[NOTBLUE]

A breath of fresh air

[Bris Red]

Just now, Scrumpylegs said:

Can’t see any escape for Dean after this. Would expect the axe to fall now. They will HAVE to appoint an external candidate now as promotion from within has now proven, beyond any question, to be a failure!!!

Indeed. I have very little confidence in the current boardroom set up at the club but surely there will be no chance of another internal appointment - SL would genuinely have to be brain dead to do it for a fourth time..