We Need To Talk About Tyreeq

[Silvio Dante]

Not the biggest culprit of us playing badly today, but way off the pace - and has been for some time.

My concern here is if anyone’s followed Tys loan spells, they’ve followed a similar pattern - on fire to start with at both Plymouth and Newport, and then dropped off - to the extent of not getting the game time you’d expect for a player of his ability.

Now, I like Ty - I think there is a real player there. But what concerns me is that there is a pattern here. I’m also mindful that he’s had COVID.

So, is it that it’s normal young player “consistency” thing (in which case I’d expect performances to be more in and out game by game) or is it an attitude thing - works hard, makes it, then drops off.

For me, there are clear red lights at the moment, and I think with Lansbury/Williams he’s dropping way down the pecking order very shortly unless he turns it around soon.

[Lenners]

Not up to it yet, hence signing Lansbury. Too careless at times on the ball.

[bcfc01]

He only had the last 25 minutes or so..

I think he's had a very good season so far - he'll have dips in form or lose concentration as its his first season at this level.

But he looks up to it imo.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

Not the biggest culprit of us playing badly today, but way off the pace - and has been for some time.

My concern here is if anyone’s followed Tys loan spells, they’ve followed a similar pattern - on fire to start with at both Plymouth and Newport, and then dropped off - to the extent of not getting the game time you’d expect for a player of his ability.

Now, I like Ty - I think there is a real player there. But what concerns me is that there is a pattern here. I’m also mindful that he’s had COVID.

So, is it that it’s normal young player “consistency” thing (in which case I’d expect performances to be more in and out game by game) or is it an attitude thing - works hard, makes it, then drops off.

For me, there are clear red lights at the moment, and I think with Lansbury/Williams he’s dropping way down the pecking order very shortly unless he turns it around soon.

Yes, been my view from watching his loan spells from afar.  Huge step up to Championship....and let’s not forget clever opposition managers and midfielders.  They suss you out.  They note that you always turn one way, they spot flaws....then they exploit them

Breakthrough season, then backwards....it happens.  It’s why I want going all-in on him earlier this season, because I’ve seen it happen too many times.

Just now, Lenners said:

Not up to it yet, hence signing Lansbury. Too careless at times on the ball.

I think you’re right....he’ll have the odd good game, but it’s a tough division to break through in.

Only got to look at Vyner in MF.  Only takes opponents 1 or 2 games to come up with plans to thwart.

Bakinson will come again, but he could also do with an experienced hand in there too.

[BLRed]

Should be mentioning vyner in the same breath. His performances the last couple of games haven’t been great. Today he was awful. Stray passes, not getting stuck in, not closing down and allowing balls to easily bypass midfield 

[Silvio Dante]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, been my view from watching his loan spells from afar.  Huge step up to Championship....and let’s not forget clever opposition managers and midfielders.  They suss you out.  They note that you always turn one way, they spot flaws....then they exploit them

Breakthrough season, then backwards....it happens.  It’s why I want going all-in on him earlier this season, because I’ve seen it happen too many times.

I think you’re right....he’ll have the odd good game, but it’s a tough division to break through in.

Only got to look at Vyner in MF.  Only takes opponents 1 or 2 games to come up with plans to thwart.

Bakinson will come again, but he could also do with an experienced hand in there too.

Good points Dave. The only thing I’d say with reference Ty is that players at a lower level are less likely to “figure you out” (or at base have less ability to do anything about it), which is where the pattern worries me more than it maybe would if it was just this was his first pro season.

Re talking up players - already I’m seeing posts saying we should throw Edwards in. It’s not just us, it’s a common football thing to go too big on players too early. I think you need a half season as a minimum to form a view unless it’s someone really exceptionally good or bad.

[TomThumb84]

2 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

Should be mentioning vyner in the same breath. His performances the last couple of games haven’t been great. Today he was awful. Stray passes, not getting stuck in, not closing down and allowing balls to easily bypass midfield 

Yes - anyone would think Vyner is primarily a defender, and has been one of our best performers in his preferred position this season.

Of course - as we have to play a 4 at the back due to central midfield injury issues, this means he cannot play there due to the undroppable Kalas and Mawson, this then means rather than make a difficult decision, we shoe-horn him in the centre of the park. Incredibly skewed management.

It would be a brave individual that could tell me 8 months ago that in our brave new world, Zak Vyner would be occupying a centre midfield position in our quest for Premier League football.

[phantom]

10 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

Should be mentioning vyner in the same breath. His performances the last couple of games haven’t been great. Today he was awful. Stray passes, not getting stuck in, not closing down and allowing balls to easily bypass midfield 

I think playing him out of position was only going to work for so long.

Get the square peg back in the square hole 

[Kibs]

It would be interesting to see how he (or any of our players actually) performed in a decent side that wasn’t defending nearly every week. 

[Gazred]

He's done so well this season we probably take him for granted as a regular first team nember. He can't be analysed as such. I think i heard pre match he'd started 50% of our games. Pretty good for his 1st season at this level given his age and experience.

We've got other strong options becoming available. His seasons far from over but he's definitely got things to work on both good and bad. Sometimes you only find out what those are by being exposed to 1st team football as he has.

 

[Bassomylord]

A young kid who is playing at a level too high for him. At the moment. Done well considering his lack of experience.

[Alex_BCFC]

He isn’t good enough - maybe he will be but he’s league one quality and part of reason why we get over run every game. He isn’t alone in this though. 

[richyy66]

2 minutes ago, Bassomylord said:

A young kid who is playing at a level too high for him. At the moment. Done well considering his lack of experience.

Exactly this..Doesn't help when those around him aren't exactly inspiring him.

[Merrick's Marvels]

Bakinson and Vyner in central midfield and people wonder why we struggle!!

Add an inconsistent Palmer and the novice Semenyo and you have one of the weakest midfields in the division. 

[77 punk]

tim it is laughable our midfield , how they expect to dominate a championship game. hopefully soon joe williams and lansbury will make a difference.

[Son of Fred]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bakinson will come again, but he could also do with an experienced hand

 

[lenred]

Like him a lot and think there is a very decent player in there but he’s been chucked in at the deep end where in an ideal world he would’ve / should’ve been more of a squad player this season and eased into his first Championship stint. Will get there though IMO, just needs time. 

[RedM]

11 minutes ago, richyy66 said:

Exactly this..Doesn't help when those around him aren't exactly inspiring him.

Exactly. During the match I was wishing we had a Korey to talk these young players through the game. A captain who could lead and nurture.

Kalas is the Captain and he might lead by example, I can’t fault him for that, but not sure if he can help the youngsters in front of him from the heart of defence.

[Northern Red]

People got carried away at the start of the season. He's a kid in his first year at this level.

41 minutes ago, BOSRed said:

Should be mentioning vyner in the same breath. His performances the last couple of games haven’t been great. Today he was awful. Stray passes, not getting stuck in, not closing down and allowing balls to easily bypass midfield 

It's almost as if he's playing out of position....

[Shuffle]

I think I must be in a minority as just not having him.  Tall but not great in air, so slow and doesn’t tackle.  I appreciate that he has ability on the ball with passing but not enough to warrant the amount of starts he’s had.  Holden is hanging him out to dry as built him into something that he cannot deliver against.

[BLRed]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

People got carried away at the start of the season. He's a kid in his first year at this level.

It's almost as if he's playing out of position....

More than capable of playing there. Not taking out of position as an excuse. He’s not done the simple things right the last 2/3 games and in such an important position on the field, it’s not helping.

[RedRock]

Bakinson sums up the ‘Comfy Club’ that City have become. The culture desperately needs changing. 

I don’t want ‘good humans’ on my checklist of key attributes. I want ‘winners’. Winners at all costs. 

 

Pat Lam would have had a meltdown looking at our rabble. He knows what he wants and nothing less is acceptable. Sets high standards and doesn’t ask players to achieve them, he demands it. That rugby side and the whole set up  -Academy upwards - reflects his character. 

Compare and contrast...Semenyo on that first goal... body language to that Derby player was almost...’excuse me, I know you’re intending to cross, but would you mind awfully if I came and tried to stop you? Sorry to be bother and all that’.

We’re so soft, passive, limp-wristed in what we do and have allowed that culture to develop and become invasive throughout the Club ever since Cotts left. We’ve become a Club where putting in mediocre/ ok performances is acceptable. They’re not. Standing still is not an option. Standing still, whether as an individual or collectively as a team, means very quickly you start going backwards...fast. 

 

BTW no idea why Semenyo was ‘pressing’ an opposition player on the edge of our own box with no defensive supporting City player anywhere near him. 

 

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Good points Dave. The only thing I’d say with reference Ty is that players at a lower level are less likely to “figure you out” (or at base have less ability to do anything about it), which is where the pattern worries me more than it maybe would if it was just this was his first pro season.

Re talking up players - already I’m seeing posts saying we should throw Edwards in. It’s not just us, it’s a common football thing to go too big on players too early. I think you need a half season as a minimum to form a view unless it’s someone really exceptionally good or bad.

Yeah, having not seen tonnes of him other than highlights and stuff at Newport and Plymouth I put possible causes of him dropping levels as teams bypassing midfield and therefore he spends a lot of time watching the ball go over his head.  But having seen him for City I do think he partially suffering from players around him too.

in the 352 he was kind of on his own, with Weimann and Paterson dragging opposition midfielders back towards their defence meaning he had a bit more space when we had the ball.

But at the end of day, I’m finding it hard to evaluate any performance at the mo.  It’s a bit of a shambles.  Some encouraging signs a flashes, but results have exceeded performances for a good while now.  This is not a “team” I saw in the opening 6-8 games.  Far from it, and I think individuals are up and down too.

[Bar BS3]

He made a huge impact initially and has fellen away from those standards. 

He's a young talent, so not expected. Probably had to play too much initially, due to absentees. 

He's got it all in his locker but needs careful nurturing. 

[Sleepy1968]

Didn't Ty get Covid before christmas? Would that have anything to do with his lack of energy? Today he came on and within a minute he'd made such a tired attempt to get to a ball ahead of a derby player I would have burst out laughing if he'd played for anyone else. And it's not the first time either. So maybe he's suffering from long-Covid effects?

[Merrick's Marvels]

25 minutes ago, 77 punk said:

tim it is laughable our midfield , how they expect to dominate a championship game. hopefully soon joe williams and lansbury will make a difference.

Yep a lot riding on Williams and Lansbury, Gary. Probably too much. 

[Prinny]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

in the 352 he was kind of on his own, with Weimann and Paterson dragging opposition midfielders back towards their defence meaning he had a bit more space when we had the ball.

I remember the start of the season I was discussing that it would only be a matter of time until someone put a man on him and he had to adapt. This compact 4 in midfield with no movement ahead totally goes against his strengths and basically does this for the opposition.

I think he has things you can't teach, size and vision/bravery to play forwards. so, up to the coaches and his desire to improve. Maybe watching Lansbury will help, maybe leaving him in is the best idea to make him work it out on his own.

[mightyreds89]

21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

It is interesting that Bakinson and Nagy are rotated and Vyner is the one that keeps his place.

I think Bakinson does look class at times. But was not so good today when he came on and struggled midweek.

Nagy was very good today. Williams back should be a big boost. We have good players, but Holden needs to get the right blend to make it work

Naggy was very good? We on about today? He was dreadful one of if not his worst appearances in a city shirt! 

[Lrrr]

At 22 he's got at least a couple of seasons to find the consistency, he's shown he can have good games so its just bringing that ability to have good games (as opposed to average) every few games now or to reduce the poor games to become a consistent performer.

[1960maaan]

I think it was fair enough people getting excited when he burst onto the scene this year, everyone loves a young player making waves in the first team. Football fans being what they are, some tended to go over the top, but that's what we do.

I think he has a lot of talent , he can thread passes like Palmer, he gets forward well and has vision. He has also only played 40 odd games on loan before this year, he's still learning. He has had moments where his flick & first time passes come off, he sees a pass quickly and lays the ball off, then he has those moments.... passes are lazy or slack, he hesitates and looks like a rabbit in the headlights and gets caught. As I said though, he's still learning. Bobby Reid ( I can't spell Decordova ) was still a year away from a real run in the Championship at the same stage.
Add to that he's playing in a weak midfield, I would have liked to see him in a more forward role with 2 other players to give cover. He could be a very good player, as always a lot depends on attitude, but I thought some of the same things about Vyner earlier this year, he's improved massively and so can TB. At the moment we are trying to make a playoff push with two Academy players in their first yer in the Championship, makes it hard.

I hope Lansbury means we can be more selective with minutes, Williams too come to that. Holden needs to change shape though, we do not have the personal to play 2 in midfield.