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Too High Unrealistic Expectations


Cardy

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As per the title really. I can’t help but think that most of the negativity on here is very heavily linked to the noises that consistently come from the very top of the club that Top 6 / Promotion is the target.

Our owner & CEO are very good at talking the talk when it comes to playing with the media & selling season tickets. However time & time again they fall well short when it comes to delivering a footballing strategy that matches that talk.

Perhaps if they had actually come out & said from the start that our aim is to be a stable mid-table team hoping for a good cup run every couple of years then perhaps the majority of fans would be more forgiving. At the same time it would take the weekly pressure of the Head Coach in terms of having to try & deliver winning football as opposed to entertaining football. Perhaps then we may be able to watch an unstifled team playing with a bit of freedom with smiles on their faces & enjoying their football. That is how I fell in love with Bristol City back in the 80’s & 90’s - we weren’t great but we tried to play in the right way.

Clearly a truly successful team produces both winning & entertaining play but how realistic is that for a club in our position - without parachute payments & continually selling our best players? Brentford have shown that it is possible by operating in a similar way - but realised many seasons ago that Top 6 / Promotion shouldn’t be a pressure driven target but rather the natural progression of producing exciting attacking football from a wider club strategy of setting realistic stepped objectives.

We are getting to the stage now that the ambitious words from the Owner in particular are going to be seen as just another hollow pipe dream which will have the exact opposite effect on the fan base than their original intention was meant to.

 

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11 minutes ago, Cardy said:

As per the title really. I can’t help but think that most of the negativity on here is very heavily linked to the noises that consistently come from the very top of the club that Top 6 / Promotion is the target.

Our owner & CEO are very good at talking the talk when it comes to playing with the media & selling season tickets. However time & time again they fall well short when it comes to delivering a footballing strategy that matches that talk.

Perhaps if they had actually come out & said from the start that our aim is to be a stable mid-table team hoping for a good cup run every couple of years then perhaps the majority of fans would be more forgiving. At the same time it would take the weekly pressure of the Head Coach in terms of having to try & deliver winning football as opposed to entertaining football. Perhaps then we may be able to watch an unstifled team playing with a bit of freedom with smiles on their faces & enjoying their football. That is how I fell in love with Bristol City back in the 80’s & 90’s - we weren’t great but we tried to play in the right way.

Clearly a truly successful team produces both winning & entertaining play but how realistic is that for a club in our position - without parachute payments & continually selling our best players? Brentford have shown that it is possible by operating in a similar way - but realised many seasons ago that Top 6 / Promotion shouldn’t be a pressure driven target but rather the natural progression of producing exciting attacking football from a wider club strategy of setting realistic stepped objectives.

We are getting to the stage now that the ambitious words from the Owner in particular are going to be seen as just another hollow pipe dream which will have the exact opposite effect on the fan base than their original intention was meant to.

 

Regardless the football disgusts me, who would seriously pay to watch this shit seriously!!

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41 minutes ago, KeepUpLino said:

Regardless the football disgusts me, who would seriously pay to watch this shit seriously!!

Well, the rhetoric will begin again in not so many weeks when they try to shift next years season cards. Will they try blackmailing us again by threatening to remove any ST benefits, if we dont renew by a certain date?

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We seem to be falling short of play off quality but not by miles. I don’t think stating that promotion is the aim from where we are but falling short makes it a pipe dream. If we were kicking around in div 1/2 with no investment and talking about the prem then fair enough.

I keep reading Brentford this and Brentford that. Clearly they have something good going. But in my view the people running clubs are likely to be fair bit smarter than those of us on this forum. It’s just not that simple and easy is it? If it was everyone would be doing it.

From where I am sat things are going in the right direction. Ok a hiccup this year in as much as the managerial recruitment didn’t go to plan and the football isn’t scintillating. But we are still competitive in a decent league.  In terms of the clubs owners I wouldn’t be looking to roll the dice given the choice.

For me wanting and aiming for promotion doesn’t mean it will / has to happen and then failing to deliver doesn’t make the owners and those involved with running the club clueless / unambitious / liars etc.

 

 

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In the current climate, and with the jumbled tripe, and disingenuous stench emanating from the club, when things return to some normality, a ST is currently less appealing than drinking/gardening/shopping in IKEA/rearranging my sock drawer/counting the blades of grass in my garden etc etc.

At the moment I refer to matchday experiences as “burn a tenner” day, so even considering a ST is mind-blowing.

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For me, it’s not even the position we are in in the table, although I actually find that acceptable currently. It’s the style of play or lack of it, the formations chosen, the inept attacking threat we carrry & actually that disappointment comes from what the manager said, not that I particularly got taken in by his declaration of attacking play etc etc. I saw enough in the 8 or so games last season to not be convinced by it. A City the size of Bristol, with one of the wealthiest English owners in all the leagues, a brand new stadium & regular attendances of over 20k should be capable of competing at the top end of the Championship imo. This squad/staff are underachieving performance wise, it’s as simple as that for me. COYR 

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1 minute ago, Simon79 said:

For me, it’s not even the position we are in in the table, although I actually find that acceptable currently. It’s the style of play or lack of it, the formations chosen, the inept attacking threat we carrry & actually that disappointment comes from what the manager said, not that I particularly got taken in by his declaration of attacking play etc etc. I saw enough in the 8 or so games last season to not be convinced by it. A City the size of Bristol, with one of the wealthiest English owners in all the leagues, a brand new stadium & regular attendances of over 20k should be capable of competing at the top end of the Championship imo. This squad/staff are underachieving performance wise, it’s as simple as that for me. COYR 

As no likes left Funk Likes GIF by Kölsche Funke rut-wiess vun 1823 e.V.

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18 minutes ago, Red0499 said:

Ok a hiccup this year in as much as the managerial recruitment didn’t go to plan and the football isn’t scintillating. 

By that logic and for those Eurovision fans out there we should start running out to the song Johnny Logan first sang when lifting the trophy.... 

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1 hour ago, Cardy said:

As per the title really. I can’t help but think that most of the negativity on here is very heavily linked to the noises that consistently come from the very top of the club that Top 6 / Promotion is the target.

Our owner & CEO are very good at talking the talk when it comes to playing with the media & selling season tickets. However time & time again they fall well short when it comes to delivering a footballing strategy that matches that talk.

Perhaps if they had actually come out & said from the start that our aim is to be a stable mid-table team hoping for a good cup run every couple of years then perhaps the majority of fans would be more forgiving. At the same time it would take the weekly pressure of the Head Coach in terms of having to try & deliver winning football as opposed to entertaining football. Perhaps then we may be able to watch an unstifled team playing with a bit of freedom with smiles on their faces & enjoying their football. That is how I fell in love with Bristol City back in the 80’s & 90’s - we weren’t great but we tried to play in the right way.

Clearly a truly successful team produces both winning & entertaining play but how realistic is that for a club in our position - without parachute payments & continually selling our best players? Brentford have shown that it is possible by operating in a similar way - but realised many seasons ago that Top 6 / Promotion shouldn’t be a pressure driven target but rather the natural progression of producing exciting attacking football from a wider club strategy of setting realistic stepped objectives.

We are getting to the stage now that the ambitious words from the Owner in particular are going to be seen as just another hollow pipe dream which will have the exact opposite effect on the fan base than their original intention was meant to.

 

I'm old enough to remember when Harry Dolman used to say the same sort of thing before the start of every season, I now regard those sort of announcement's for exactly what they are to as you say sell season tickets, the kind of managers we have employed over the years tells you all you need to know really doesn't it.

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1 hour ago, Cardy said:

As per the title really. I can’t help but think that most of the negativity on here is very heavily linked to the noises that consistently come from the very top of the club that Top 6 / Promotion is the target.

Perhaps if they had actually come out & said from the start that our aim is to be a stable mid-table team hoping for a good cup run every couple of years 

Most clubs ambition is to win / gain promotion. Having spent all that money on he stadium / new training ground do you expect them to say “yeah, happy to finish 12th”. What drivel

The fact we are falling short of it target doesn’t make the ambition wrong. 

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3 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Most clubs ambition is to win / gain promotion. Having spent all that money on he stadium / new training ground do you expect them to say “yeah, happy to finish 12th”. What drivel

The fact we are falling short of it target doesn’t make the ambition wrong. 

Something is going wrong somewhere though isn't it, what is the point of ambition if you don't back it up with the right appointment manager wise, why do some teams continually manage to get back to the top flight after hiccups look at Reading again looking like they could be making yet another return, it's the manager that is making the difference with his choice of tactics and the personnel he chooses to buy and play we have consistently got that part of the equation wrong. 

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2 hours ago, Cardy said:

Clearly a truly successful team produces both winning & entertaining play but how realistic is that for a club in our position

Yet at the end of August City were riding high in this division, playing good football and there was discussion on this forum about the 90 goals this season target. Are the players who've replace injured players just not good enough, or have too many players simply decided we're not good enough to go up, we aren't bad enough to go down and given up trying?

As for those 90 goals; three rounds of the EFL Cup = 6 goals, 2/game. two rounds of the FA cup = 6 goals, 3 goals/game. But where & how did it go wrong in the League? We started off by scoring two goals / game in each of the first five games. Goals then dried up until January when we had two league wins and two defeats scoring twice in the wins, but not scoring in the defeats.

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Is it unrealistic to expect a play off challenge? Not at all, we have the parachute clubs to compete with and then a load of teams with less fans and less money like Blackburn. Why are we behind them again? Why do Reading manage a play off or promotion every three or four years and we dont? 

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2 hours ago, Red0499 said:

We seem to be falling short of play off quality but not by miles. I don’t think stating that promotion is the aim from where we are but falling short makes it a pipe dream. If we were kicking around in div 1/2 with no investment and talking about the prem then fair enough.

I keep reading Brentford this and Brentford that. Clearly they have something good going. But in my view the people running clubs are likely to be fair bit smarter than those of us on this forum. It’s just not that simple and easy is it? If it was everyone would be doing it.

From where I am sat things are going in the right direction. Ok a hiccup this year in as much as the managerial recruitment didn’t go to plan and the football isn’t scintillating. But we are still competitive in a decent league.  In terms of the clubs owners I wouldn’t be looking to roll the dice given the choice.

For me wanting and aiming for promotion doesn’t mean it will / has to happen and then failing to deliver doesn’t make the owners and those involved with running the club clueless / unambitious / liars etc.

 

 

....I think this article is worth a read.

https://breakingthelines.com/data-analysis/how-data-analysis-won-fc-midtjylland-a-title-and-more/

Benham and Bloom....sports / betting data men.  Benham schooled in finance.  SL could’ve used his skills in this way too.

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3 hours ago, Cardy said:

Perhaps if they had actually come out & said from the start that our aim is to be a stable mid-table team hoping for a good cup run every couple of years then perhaps the majority of fans would be more forgiving.

Do you reckon?  I think alot of fans would be beside themselves if they'd said that.

People just need to manage their own expectations rather than look around to be lead by others.  Regardless of what the club state as their ambition, it doesn't means gonna happen.

I'm with @Simon79.  Just want to see entertaining football with hopefully some local players involved.   No real desire for the premier League in particular.

It's been dire at times, but I'm enjoying watching Semenyo, Vyner and Bakinson play so far.  

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1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

Is it unrealistic to expect a play off challenge? Not at all, we have the parachute clubs to compete with and then a load of teams with less fans and less money like Blackburn. Why are we behind them again? Why do Reading manage a play off or promotion every three or four years and we dont? 

Having a wage bill £8m (£150,000 a week) higher than us may be a reason

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1 hour ago, Slack Bladder said:

The only reason why I would renew my season ticket is to meet the people I sit around on a Saturday afternoon.

But if they decided to all go down the pub and just watch the results programme on the TV instead, that would be a lot of beer money.

Peoples attitudes to football may have changed during the pandemic 

Good point.

At this time I am missing going to the football at AG, but am I missing the actual football ? No.

I miss the event not the football tbh. Especially given the football being served up at this time is crap.

Will I cough up a few hundred for a season ticket ? I don't know at this point, but I'm mindful to say no, could be I've been weaned off of it after all these months in lockdowns etc.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Slack Bladder said:

The only reason why I would renew my season ticket is to meet the people I sit around on a Saturday afternoon.

But if they decided to all go down the pub and just watch the results programme on the TV instead, that would be a lot of beer money.

Peoples attitudes to football may have changed during the pandemic 

I agree, I honestly think they’ll struggle to get 10 thousand through the door after the initial rush

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4 hours ago, pillred said:

I'm old enough to remember when Harry Dolman used to say the same sort of thing before the start of every season, I now regard those sort of announcement's for exactly what they are to as you say sell season tickets, the kind of managers we have employed over the years tells you all you need to know really doesn't it.

Why sack LJ then? Was he having it away with the physio's missus? (Might explain the injury crisis this, thinking about it).

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6 hours ago, Cardy said:

As per the title really. I can’t help but think that most of the negativity on here is very heavily linked to the noises that consistently come from the very top of the club that Top 6 / Promotion is the target.

Our owner & CEO are very good at talking the talk when it comes to playing with the media & selling season tickets. However time & time again they fall well short when it comes to delivering a footballing strategy that matches that talk.

Perhaps if they had actually come out & said from the start that our aim is to be a stable mid-table team hoping for a good cup run every couple of years then perhaps the majority of fans would be more forgiving. At the same time it would take the weekly pressure of the Head Coach in terms of having to try & deliver winning football as opposed to entertaining football. Perhaps then we may be able to watch an unstifled team playing with a bit of freedom with smiles on their faces & enjoying their football. That is how I fell in love with Bristol City back in the 80’s & 90’s - we weren’t great but we tried to play in the right way.

Clearly a truly successful team produces both winning & entertaining play but how realistic is that for a club in our position - without parachute payments & continually selling our best players? Brentford have shown that it is possible by operating in a similar way - but realised many seasons ago that Top 6 / Promotion shouldn’t be a pressure driven target but rather the natural progression of producing exciting attacking football from a wider club strategy of setting realistic stepped objectives.

We are getting to the stage now that the ambitious words from the Owner in particular are going to be seen as just another hollow pipe dream which will have the exact opposite effect on the fan base than their original intention was meant to.

 

Don't listen to the bluster that comes out of the Boardroom. Steve Lansdown, Mark Ashton, Jon Lansdown have all got one thing in common - they can speak bullshit with the best of them AND keep a straight face at the same time. The trick is to use your own knowledge and work out for yourself what is realistic. Totally disregard the crap that comes out of their gobs around season ticket selling time. They are full of shit and always have been. Realistic for me this season was somewhere around top half and a half decent improvement over the last couple of seasons of dreadful football that Johnson served up. We are just about achieving one and spectacularly failing on the other as it stands.

I can tell you now that I will be renewing my season ticket BUT as others have said it has nothing whatsoever to do with the football on offer. If that was the only selling point for me then you wouldn't see me at Ashton Gate for dust because I could just pop the internet on at about five to five on a Saturday and not have to sit through the 96 minutes of tedium that is the hallmark of Steve Lansdown's Bristol City FC these days. Or I could go and watch a local non-league game (which I often do when City are away) and keep abreast of the game and enjoy the fun of the Matchday meltdown on my mobile. I respect anyone who feels that they really cannot handle the football on offer compared to the outlay - it doesn't make you disloyal at all. In fact in current times it is inevitable that many people will be having to make lots of these difficult and cut-throat choices on how to spend their significantly diminishing disposable family income.

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2 hours ago, markcarter said:

For total novice Holden keeping his mediocre squad in the division would count as an achievement.  He’s still got a decent chance of that, although more by luck than judgement.

I just don’t get that opinion. Did you agree with LJ getting sacked for not reaching his playoff target? ( genuine question ). Because in my mind, this squad is stronger than last season’s squad, considerably I would say & it’s more experienced. Staying in this division with this squad shouldnt even be a minimum requirement. COYR 

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I don't expect promotion or even the playoffs. 

I want to see a team who look like they've played together before. A team who look like they have a direction, a philosophy for how they want to play the game. 

Our team can barely pass the ball or execute the basics of the game. 

Eventually it becomes about results and nothing else when the entertainment factor is close to nil. That being the case we could just grab the results after the game and do something else instead. 

This team is, normally, the least competent at the basics in my time of watching. Endless mistakes. It's laughable. And embarrassing. 

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