Better but so jealous....

[PolskRed]

1 hour ago, Wiltshire robin said:

No but its looking more likely in the future we’ll be in league one rather than the prem 

Seriously? Love to know how you come to that conclusion?

[Wiltshire robin]

1 minute ago, PolskRed said:

Seriously? Love to know how you come to that conclusion?

Basically we in the same scenario as last time we got relegated, sacked Gary Johnson and hired inexperience and it cost us 

[pillred]

3 hours ago, TomThumb84 said:

£5m + £5m in add ons and a resale value of already £15m+ at least.

Same cost as I said in original post as Diedhiou, Wells and Palmer, and you can throw in Fosu and Canos for that too.

What resale value do our 3 guys have off the £14.5m investment we made on them?

Sounds even worse when you put it like that, I reckon about half that back on a good day, we really have made some poor decisions of late in the transfer market not sure if I had made such a hash of my job I wouldn't be sent packing they seem bullet proof though. 

[Davefevs]

23 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Brentford are unbelievably good. 

Ivan Toney is by far the best striker at this level. He looked so good for Peterborough I thought he might even be worth a prem team signing. He certainly looks good enough for that level from that performance. Mawson bounced off him at one point. Literally got everything, strong, quick, great in the air and his touch is superb. The ball sticks to him. And of course scores all kinds of goals. Fantastic.

I'm hoping Semenyo becomes that kind of player through the middle in the future.

We needed to be able to press them at 2-1 like you say. And Wells, Palmer, Paterson coming on for Diedhiou, Edwards and Massengo would have been the right move.

Dunno if you listened to the Brentford Tactical podcast I did earlier this?  It was an hour long, so if you get fed up of my stuff in here, you won’t want to hear me talk one on one for an hour!

But was talking about Toney, and made that exact point.  When I’m “scouting” (not in an official sense) at players, especially forwards from Lg1 and below, one of the things I look at is what types of goals they score.  If they score lots from one on ones I tend to worry that they won’t get sane chances at the level up.  Toney, as you say, scored all types....and it was a pretty safe bet that he’d do “at least” ok at this level.  At Brentford, it was probably a safe bet he’d do very well.

[Robbored]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But was talking about Toney, and made that exact point.  When I’m “scouting” (not in an official sense) at players, especially forwards from Lg1 and below, one of the things I look at is what types of goals they score.  If they score lots from one on ones I tend to worry that they won’t get sane chances at the level up.  Toney, as you say, scored all types....and it was a pretty safe bet that he’d do “at least” ok at this level.  At Brentford, it was probably a safe bet he’d do very well.

Toney was definitely on Citys radar but the asking price was so say beyond our budget. Posh were very aware of what kind of money they could get and asked accordingly. We ended up losing out.

You could say that the financial restrictions imposed by SL denied MA from raising Citys offer and we saw last night what a top striker he is. His goal was superbly taken.

[TomThumb84]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

No not aware of the podcast. Think I've only ever listened to Stan's one and the old Gregor city ones.

Yeah looked at every Peterborough games highlights from last season in the summer to mainly see what he was capable of.

And even when he didn't score he did things that looked top quality like running onto a long ball running at full pace and controlling the ball first touch from the sky with one foot and blasting narrowly wide from an angle with the other foot.

Could see he looked strong, quick, can jump really high and like say, scores all kinds of goals. Reading the Peterborough fans saying how hard he works for the team too. And seeing him back defending corners. Can never beat really seeing a player properly of course but it looked very promising for whoever were to sign him in the championship.

Agree with all of this, and off the pitch too, based on interviews I have seen, and as a guest summariser on the Quest highlights show, looks a mature guy and talks well.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

No not aware of the podcast. Think I've only ever listened to Stan's one and the old Gregor city ones.

Yeah looked at every Peterborough games highlights from last season in the summer to mainly see what he was capable of.

And even when he didn't score he did things that looked top quality like running onto a long ball running at full pace and controlling the ball first touch from the sky with one foot and blasting narrowly wide from an angle with the other foot.

Could see he looked strong, quick, can jump really high and like say, scores all kinds of goals. Reading the Peterborough fans saying how hard he works for the team too. And seeing him back defending corners. Can never beat really seeing a player properly of course but it looked very promising for whoever were to sign him in the championship.

If you want to listen:

 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Toney was definitely on Citys radar but the asking price was so say beyond our budget. Posh were very aware of what kind of money they could get and asked accordingly. We ended up losing out.

You could say that the financial restrictions imposed by SL denied MA from raising Citys offer and we saw last night what a top striker he is. His goal was superbly taken.

Or you could say - money wasted elsewhere restricted us from even being in the race

[TomThumb84]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Toney was definitely on Citys radar but the asking price was so say beyond our budget. Posh were very aware of what kind of money they could get and asked accordingly. We ended up losing out.

You could say that the financial restrictions imposed by SL denied MA from raising Citys offer and we saw last night what a top striker he is. His goal was superbly taken.

He cost £5m + £5m add ons by all accounts and is now being talked about as a £15-£20m asset.

So total cost is slightly less that one Diedhiou (£5.3m investment that we will not recoup a penny on), and one Nahki Wells (who we will lose money on). If your assumption that SL stopped Mark Ashton from upping his bid is correct (which I dont think it is), then thats demonstrated an awful lack of knowledge around player potential and poor business acumen.

More likely is that we made enquiries and were swatted away by Toney’s representatives as Brentford was a more appealing prospect for his career.

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

He cost £5m + £5m add ons by all accounts and is now being talked about as a £15-£20m asset.

So total cost is slightly less that one Diedhiou (£5.3m investment that we will not recoup a penny on), and one Nahki Wells (who we will lose money on). If your assumption that SL stopped Mark Ashton from upping his bid is correct (which I dont think it is), then thats demonstrated an awful lack of knowledge around player potential and poor business acumen.

More likely is that we made enquiries and were swatted away by Toney’s representatives as Brentford was a more appealing prospect for his career.

I’m sure there some truth in  some of what you say but the reality is that if MA had offered say...£6m then Toney would be playing for us.

None of us know what the details of what went down but from what I read Posh were asking more than what MA was prepared to pay.

Reinforces some of the points you made.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I’m sure there some truth in  some of what you say but the reality is that if MA had offered say...£6m then Toney would be playing for us.

None of us know what the details of what went down but from what I read Posh were asking more than what MA was prepared to pay.

Reinforces some of the points you made.

I genuinely don’t think it’s as black and white as that.  We allegedly offered more for Watkins than Brentford did, but player and Exeter still chose Brentford.  Exeter felt they had more likelihood of achieving future add-ons through Watkins at Brentford, than Watkins at City.  It proved correct when they netted £4m this summer, that basically covered more than a whole season’s costs.  Brentford also allegedly sold “Brentford and London” to him, and that swayed him too.

[BS4 on Tour...]

21 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They might well be, but Bournemouth did cheat FFP.

Burnley are a different case altogether. Very well run club and have been for years- though Parachute Payments did help post relegation in 2010, this absolutely helped. Full credit to them, very well run- but what Burnley did is they capitalised on strong momentum.

They beat a number of PL sides in 2008/09 Carabao Cup and ran Tottenham very close in the semi final- sounds familiar eh! The difference is, that they went up through the playoffs that same year.

This then set them up with PL cash, 4 years of Parachute Payments- and they went up in Year 4! Went straight back up in 2015/16, but a lot of good management on and off the pitch too- though their Eddie Howe experiment didn't work out.

Full credit to them, but they seized the momentum at the opportune time- struck when the iron was hot. This helped to set them up for years to come, especially as they only spent moderate amounts in the PL. Paid down debt, gradually improved over time.

Had they not struck when the iron was hot in 2008/09 though, one wonders how it might have panned out for them. Okay off the pitch of course, wouldn't expect anything else but on it?

By the very same token albeit with differences, had we capitalised on the momentum from our Cup run in 2017/18, how would we have panned out- indeed be panning out today? Well hopefully! Or even in 2007/08, had we won that final...?

Wow! Fair play Mr P - you have obviously put in some serious hours researching everything about FFP - I may be wrong but so many of your posts seem to be about clubs that have fallen foul of FFP and you jump on any mention of those clubs and lay out your FFP thoughts on any threads that mention them!

It must be exhausting but as I said, fair play to you, keep going, it’s great to have an expert on a subject that interests relatively few people on here - but keep going, cos you’re making a valuable contribution - cheers fella... 

[Cidre Monita]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Toney was definitely on Citys radar but the asking price was so say beyond our budget. Posh were very aware of what kind of money they could get and asked accordingly. We ended up losing out.

You could say that the financial restrictions imposed by SL denied MA from raising Citys offer and we saw last night what a top striker he is. His goal was superbly taken.

Because we spent our money on Wells. 

[maxjak]

22 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Or you could say - money wasted elsewhere restricted us from even being in the race

Exactly...........Brentford sell Watkins, and immediately bring in Toney for less than half the money they received from Villa.  They had obviously scouted him intensively. and knew he was a safe bet as a replacement?  We sell Webster, and `Kelly, and most of that money is squandered.  We already had a relationship with Peterboro through Eisa and Szomdics, so how hard did we try to sell ourselves to him.....if at all?   I believe we need a Chief Scout and a network of scouts if we are ever to unearth some talent that we can afford?    It would just take one Kelly or Webster to pay for the scouting team a few times over?  Or am I being Naive?

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 04/02/2021 at 22:58, BS4 on Tour... said:

Wow! Fair play Mr P - you have obviously put in some serious hours researching everything about FFP - I may be wrong but so many of your posts seem to be about clubs that have fallen foul of FFP and you jump on any mention of those clubs and lay out your FFP thoughts on any threads that mention them!

It must be exhausting but as I said, fair play to you, keep going, it’s great to have an expert on a subject that interests relatively few people on here - but keep going, cos you’re making a valuable contribution - cheers fella... 

Overall- won't say much other than replicating the way Bournemouth did it is off the table now- Bournemouth, Brentford and Burnley- and not just FFP but generally, three quite different Business models. Would say the last two would be a much better template to follow...

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 04/02/2021 at 14:22, Harry said:

The answer to your question is very simple. 
Have a read of that article you linked re Brentford. They mention a couple of important roles - Head of Recruitment, Lead France Scout. 
Then ask yourself if we have any people currently filling those roles? The answer is no. 
We use Wyscout & Scout 7 as databases. Yes, of course they still physically watch players, but there isn’t a full time team of scouts out there watching the French Div 2 or the League of Ireland or the Scottish under 18’s etc etc. 
We have no Chief Scout. We have no Head of Recruitment. We have no Lead France Scout, let alone a Spanish, Dutch, German, Irish, Midlands Floodlit League, Northern Premier u18’s etc. You’re not gonna find that pacy winger in Halesowen Town’s under 18’s by sifting through Wyscout. 
Players can be found “off the radar” by physically scouting the country, because they are “off the radar”. Once their stats are on Wyscout, they’re no longer “off the radar”, they are now available to anyone. 
 

If we want better recruitment, we need to combine the analytics with real life graft. We need to employ a head Scout who needs a team of tens, nay scores of scouts nationwide and Europe wide. 
Not rely on Gilhespy and his team of computer based analysts to find us some gems for our meagre team of scouts to go and watch. 
 

Here’s an idea. We’ve got fans all over the country and indeed all over the world. 
Pay them to watch games in their local area. Give them an ID badge that allows them access to any match as an official BCFC Scout. Pay them for their time. Suddenly you’ve got football fans, with your clubs allegiance at heart, with eyes on hundreds of leagues, be it a youth league in Lincolnshire or a pro league in Estonia. Eyes on. Then get the ‘qualified’ scouts to go and follow up on any potential gems. 
It’s an investment in the clubs future, with the buy-in of the supporters. 
 

On that note- I have to say it sounds like our Scouting Team is undermanned a bit? Having said that, Brentford do seem to have used Analytics to a high level, ie used a lot of it.

On that one specific note I highlighted however- could Louis-Jean or an equivalent, let alone upgraded replacement have been useful in this respect? Read somewhere that he had a role with Kodjia- left in 2016 I think...and no equivalent has been replaced. Plus all the other stuff you say- do agree though, off the radar requires getting ahead of the curve- once they hit a certain level or a certain amount of exposure, it's too late as they're known!

Googled him briefly, he's Head of Recruitment at Nice now- granted the French market is difficult or would be tricky what with Brexit, but it does feel undermanned for sure. Like there is a gap between aspects of the Infrastructure vs what we want to be, what we think will cut it.