Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

IGNORED

Better but so jealous....


Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, Fuber said:

I'd argue that comes under the Identity issue still tho Pop.

Less jobs for (Ashton's) the boys, and more jobs for actual achievements and people connected and with a passion for the club.

We never adequately replaced Rhys Carr, or that's what the surface evidence appears to show. Since he left we've been plagued by back pre seasons and fitness issues. Rolls having been at least present for similar blow ups at Watford and Arsenal before joining us. Mates with (you guessed it), Marky boy.

It's almost like a Mafia ring.

I can appreciate Ashton's negotiating. But not much else. A large portion of our lack of direction since his takeover as CEO can be laid at his feet. Only made worse with the farcical circumstances of Holden's appointment over the summer and communique from the club over the past 3 years.

Yeah, read bits about this on here- will be honest and say I don't know so much about behind the scenes.

Rhys Carr? Know little about but a quick search tells me that he is at Sheffield United- a club who have done a lot right in recent years. If it's good enough for them...wasn't there someone who went to Southampton as well, thinking on the recruitment side? Again if he's good enough for them...Sam Stanton another that springs to mind, why did he leave- Ashton striking again? Rolls as you say has form, based on what you say and what I've read on here.

Yeah that 6 weeks really was ridiculous- actually think in the circs Holden hasn't done so badly, ie a lot of the shit notably injuries isn't his fault and yet we're still midtableish, and a couple of moderate Cup runs, will even be our best FA Cup run since 1974 if we win our next one- would be interesting to see what he could do with most of the squad fit. Although his whole "Put 3 or 4 up front" as his go to tactic when chasing the game grates! Tonight a bit more variety but the general "Stick on a load of strikers"- that kind of setup is usually just ineffective, possibly even counterproductive.

The whole 3-4 up front when behind aside, yeah would be interesting to see what he could do if not having to firefight, improvise with consistent and rolling injuries.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brentford are an equally well run club but to say we are going backwards raises two questions in my mind. 1) Who is surprised when we had a successful coach (win record over 30%) and replaced LJ with a guy we are happy learns his trade during these covud times when we will be slashing budgets and using Academy kids in the first team

2) why reference just Brentford who are undoubtedly doing better than us this (and last season). We are not going backwards, we are standing still, cutting our cloth to the new Covud world of Championship football. There are many clubs going backwards: Cardiff, Derby, Sheff W, Forest, Bomo, to name but a few. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Red Cloud said:

Brentford are one of those annoying teams (and by "annoying" I mean spend no where near what we do), that regardless who they sell, get better and better

Their trick is, as the OP states, that they have picked a system and a way of playing, and then they recruit and organise accordingly.  The system remains the same, so as players come and go, then new ones that fit into that system of play are recruited.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       It's a simple and effective policy, which  is then dependent on quality coaching and rigorous research into which players are brought into  the team.  As an alternative, our system at City is the slapdash approach, with no real plan or long term strategy, just get some players in, and hope they   eventually gel together?  Quite often purchasing players, and playing them in a different position or within a set of tactics that is unfamiliar to them.           You only had to watch last nights match to understand which route is the most rewarding and entertaining?

Edited by maxjak
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Brentford P26 W14 D9 L3 F48 A26 GD22 PTS 51

 

Bristol City P27 W12 D3 L12 F29 A31 GD-2 PTS 39

 

Why the difference, we cannot score goals!

 

This has been a failing for years, we just cannot have the means to construct a formula for scoring. The defence record is not too bad, just over a goal per game let in, whereas Brentford is a goal per game let in.

Sort out a poacher, such as Zac did last night, and things would improve no end.

 

Bickering about staff will get you nowhere, its all in the mindset of the players!

 

Nuff said, back to my shielding.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Easy to say in hindsight but we should’ve gone all in for Toney. Looks fantastic. I know we’ve unearthed a few and the grass is always greener, but how do Brentford get transfers consistently right so often?

Basically, they use Opta like many other clubs and incorporate other analytics – and delve into it as deeply as possible. They look at complicated player tracking data and notify their scouts to follow up on that data, so they can work out the strengths of players in certain situations. For example, Brendan MacFarlane is their lead scout in France, responsible for unearthting the likes of Benrahma, Mbuemo and Maupay. He also alerted English clubs to Kodjia before MacFarlane joined Brentford.

For all of Ashton's hot air about clubs coming to us for insights on how we do it, it's far easier to find out how Brentford do it so successfully. That tells its own story. As far as I understand, our analysts study data from Ashton's scouting company. For balance, I don't know whether or not we use other analytics. I don't think we have anything like the extensive scouting network as Brentford have on the ground. @Harrycan probably shed more light on that. 

Obviously, they got their ducks in a row with appointing managers who play an attractive style of football and recruited players to suit that. That vision seemingly comes from the top. We've been a rudderless ship, certainly since Cotts left, and arguably before that. 

As for Toney, does anyone genuinley believe he'd have 20 goals by now if he was playing for us? I certainly don't because we don't create chances. 

Edited by tin
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

We just came up against a better side, if i'm honest. I thought we actually played ok, and more than matched them first half.

Certainly not a game to be too disheartened with, Brentford will win the League in my opinion, and are ahead of us due to spot on recruitment, spot on planning and fantastic management appointments. 

Jealous? Absolutely not. I was of Bournemouth because they just chucked millions at it and got where they were because of that, but with Brentford it has been a well planned gradual rise, even before the last decade they had spells when they were knocking on the door of the Championship.
 

As far as City are concerned that was a much better display than Saturday, it couldn't have got much worse though. I do question Holden's subs, he always leaves it too late and for me taking Massengo and Nagy off was a mistake and leaving Fam on. I actually think a bit more quality in the final 3rd last night would have potentially got us a point. I think Fam is better in games where it's tight and we aren't given much room. Well Brentford gave us plenty of room going forward and for me I don't think Fam was mobile enough last night.

We have to beat Cardiff on Saturday, as I can't see us getting more than 5 points over the next Month when I look at the fixtures coming up

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Not sure I'd start Diedhiou tbh!

Hunt then, alright- Vyner- you can make a case for, he's certainly done better than expected and maybe wouldn't deserve dropping- Vyner-Kalas-Mawson. Nagy I generally think is decent- is it our best 11? It's a squad game, you can pick a variety of options- I'm not even sure 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 is my favourite but Weimann in a wide right- NOT WINGER- and Paterson wide left could offer some useful tactical balance.

At the start of last season [when we still retained some form of identity] Diedhiou wasn't even in the team then. It was Palmer & Afobe and THAT was the way forward. A more mobile and fluid way forward rather than the static "we know what's coming"  cross into the box.

We have lost our way completely. Short term I would expect performances and results to improve with key players to return which will only serve to mask the long term problem.

The club must realise this. They're fortunate that there's no crowds watching on to complain as there are plenty on here with real concerns for this club long term moving forward.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, tin said:

Basically, they use Opta like many other clubs and incorporate other analytics – and delve into it as deeply as possible. They look at complicated player tracking data and notify their scouts to follow up on that data, so they can work out the strengths of players in certain situations. For example, Brendan MacFarlane is their lead scout in France, responsible for unearthting the likes of Benrahma, Mbuemo and Maupay. He also alerted English clubs to Kodjia before MacFarlane joined Brentford.

For all of Ashton's hot air about clubs coming to us for insights on how we do it, it's far easier to find out how Brentford do it so successfully. That tells its own story. As far as I understand, our analysts study data from Ashton's scouting company. For balance, I don't know whether or not we use other analytics. I don't think we have anything like the extensive scouting network as Brentford have on the ground. @Harrycan probably shed more light on that. 

The answer to your question is very simple. 
Have a read of that article you linked re Brentford. They mention a couple of important roles - Head of Recruitment, Lead France Scout. 
Then ask yourself if we have any people currently filling those roles? The answer is no. 
We use Wyscout & Scout 7 as databases. Yes, of course they still physically watch players, but there isn’t a full time team of scouts out there watching the French Div 2 or the League of Ireland or the Scottish under 18’s etc etc. 
We have no Chief Scout. We have no Head of Recruitment. We have no Lead France Scout, let alone a Spanish, Dutch, German, Irish, Midlands Floodlit League, Northern Premier u18’s etc. You’re not gonna find that pacy winger in Halesowen Town’s under 18’s by sifting through Wyscout. 
Players can be found “off the radar” by physically scouting the country, because they are “off the radar”. Once their stats are on Wyscout, they’re no longer “off the radar”, they are now available to anyone. 
 

If we want better recruitment, we need to combine the analytics with real life graft. We need to employ a head Scout who needs a team of tens, nay scores of scouts nationwide and Europe wide. 
Not rely on Gilhespy and his team of computer based analysts to find us some gems for our meagre team of scouts to go and watch. 
 

Here’s an idea. We’ve got fans all over the country and indeed all over the world. 
Pay them to watch games in their local area. Give them an ID badge that allows them access to any match as an official BCFC Scout. Pay them for their time. Suddenly you’ve got football fans, with your clubs allegiance at heart, with eyes on hundreds of leagues, be it a youth league in Lincolnshire or a pro league in Estonia. Eyes on. Then get the ‘qualified’ scouts to go and follow up on any potential gems. 
It’s an investment in the clubs future, with the buy-in of the supporters. 
 

Edited by Harry
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
  • Flames 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 2015 said:

We just came up against a better side, if i'm honest. I thought we actually played ok, and more than matched them first half.

Certainly not a game to be too disheartened with, Brentford will win the League in my opinion, and are ahead of us due to spot on recruitment, spot on planning and fantastic management appointments. 

Jealous? Absolutely not. I was of Bournemouth because they just chucked millions at it and got where they were because of that, but with Brentford it has been a well planned gradual rise, even before the last decade they had spells when they were knocking on the door of the Championship.
 

As far as City are concerned that was a much better display than Saturday, it couldn't have got much worse though. I do question Holden's subs, he always leaves it too late and for me taking Massengo and Nagy off was a mistake and leaving Fam on. I actually think a bit more quality in the final 3rd last night would have potentially got us a point. I think Fam is better in games where it's tight and we aren't given much room. Well Brentford gave us plenty of room going forward and for me I don't think Fam was mobile enough last night.

We have to beat Cardiff on Saturday, as I can't see us getting more than 5 points over the next Month when I look at the fixtures coming up

Didn't Brentford spend £10,000,000 on Toney? if that isn't chucking money at it I don't know what is, apart from that yes they have gone about things a lot better than we have.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, pillred said:

Didn't Brentford spend £10,000,000 on Toney? if that isn't chucking money at it I don't know what is, apart from that yes they have gone about things a lot better than we have.

£5m up front, another £5m in add-ons - small change after receiving £25m for Benrahma and £28m for Watkins. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, pillred said:

Didn't Brentford spend £10,000,000 on Toney? if that isn't chucking money at it I don't know what is, apart from that yes they have gone about things a lot better than we have.

£5m + £5m in add ons and a resale value of already £15m+ at least.

Same cost as I said in original post as Diedhiou, Wells and Palmer, and you can throw in Fosu and Canos for that too.

What resale value do our 3 guys have off the £14.5m investment we made on them?

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Brentford are unbelievably good. 

Ivan Toney is by far the best striker at this level. He looked so good for Peterborough I thought he might even be worth a prem team signing. He certainly looks good enough for that level from that performance. Mawson bounced off him at one point. Literally got everything, strong, quick, great in the air and his touch is superb. The ball sticks to him. And of course scores all kinds of goals. Fantastic.

I'm hoping Semenyo becomes that kind of player through the middle in the future.

We needed to be able to press them at 2-1 like you say. And Wells, Palmer, Paterson coming on for Diedhiou, Edwards and Massengo would have been the right move.

I bet Ashton is already thinking the same as he lines him up for auction

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Brentford are unbelievably good. 

Ivan Toney is by far the best striker at this level. He looked so good for Peterborough I thought he might even be worth a prem team signing. He certainly looks good enough for that level from that performance. Mawson bounced off him at one point. Literally got everything, strong, quick, great in the air and his touch is superb. The ball sticks to him. And of course scores all kinds of goals. Fantastic.

I'm hoping Semenyo becomes that kind of player through the middle in the future.

We needed to be able to press them at 2-1 like you say. And Wells, Palmer, Paterson coming on for Diedhiou, Edwards and Massengo would have been the right move.

Interesting post.

Ivan Toney is now by far the number one centre-forward in this division.

He looks twice the player he did at PBoro, and for the cost, there should have been more in for him.

Brentford took him on because they looked at him, looked what he could bring, decided they had a system that would compliment his strengths and brought him in. They are confident they can make good players better.

Are we? Case in point would be Nahki Wells, you can count on one hand the number of times we have played him in the way Huddersfield and QPR did and then we wonder why he looks a shadow of himself.

We sign players who are well coached and happy elsewhere and then decide to try and change them. This either comes from a series of “big name vanity” signings, or a lack of depth in the quality and range of our scouting network. Hence my original post.

Edited by TomThumb84
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The dolman pragmatist's ideal team includes 5 players who are currently out injured and 2 Mawson and Kalas , who have missed a large chunk

of this season.  That has bound to have affected our season and hopefully will get better soon as they all return for selection,

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Interesting post.

Ivan Toney is now by far the number one centre-forward in this division.

He looks twice the player he did at PBoro, and for the cost, there should have been more in for him.

Brentford took him on because they looked at him, looked what he could bring, decided they had a system that would compliment his strengths and brought him in. They are confident they can make good players better.

Are we? Case in point would be Nahki Wells, you can count on one hand the number of times we have played him in the way Huddersfield and QPR did and then we wonder why he looks a shadow of himself.

We sign players who are well coached and happy elsewhere and then decide to try and change them. This either comes from a series of “big name vanity” signings, or a lack of depth in the quality and range of our scouting network. Hence my original post.

I don't think we have played him in his best role once. Not even in one minute of a game! 

Probably the closest to being played in a role that suits him would have been in the Cheltenham preseason friendly where he played alongside Weimann and Wells scored a hat trick. 

Not seen that game of course but just going on what I think would suit Wells. Being the main number 9 looking at getting in behind the defence. 

Now Martin is out for a while and Fam looking pretty shattered, surely Wells can finally be given a go up top with Palmer in behind or even Wells alongside Semenyo with Semenyo dropping deeper or running wide. 

It was a bad signing but there's still time to make it a good one.

 

  • Hmmm 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Sniper said:

we always seem to be the team that miss out. Canos, Pukki, Ollie Watkins something is not right

Believe we scouted Watkins extensively...

The Scout's report was glowing,, came with the highest recommendation & passed to the 'powers that be...we had the drop in the situation...

A twiddleing of thumbs ensued,,,possibly one up an ass with the mind in neutral 😀..

Edited by Son of Fred
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brentford use analytics far superior to anything any other club use. 

It really is in a field of its own. Cultivated away from football. But incorporated into football analytics. 

I do feel though, that Thomas Frank's doesn't get enough credit.

You can have the best analysis in the world, but if the coaching isn't any good it will fail.

His playing style/philosophy is clever and his use of full backs as wide players, and midfielders dropping to cover, incorporated with high press is impressive.

Their weakness is winning headers and crosses. I feel we could have done better at that yesterday. Vyners opener was a prime example of their biggest weakness. 

I did notice we were playing higher floated crosses from corners yesterday....however...it was negated because none of our players ran and attacked the ball. Most were from a standing position....easily defended.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Brentford use analytics far superior to anything any other club use. 

It really is in a field of its own. Cultivated away from football. But incorporated into football analytics. 

I do feel though, that Thomas Frank's doesn't get enough credit.

You can have the best analysis in the world, but if the coaching isn't any good it will fail.

His playing style/philosophy is clever and his use of full backs as wide players, and midfielders dropping to cover, incorporated with high press is impressive.

Their weakness is winning headers and crosses. I feel we could have done better at that yesterday. Vyners opener was a prime example of their biggest weakness. 

I did notice we were playing higher floated crosses from corners yesterday....however...it was negated because none of our players ran and attacked the ball. Most were from a standing position....easily defended.

 

 

Interesting re: corners, I noticed that too. We scored are goal from a whipped flat delivery but then every corner we had we floated in up in a strange “come and get me keeper” way.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

I mean the funny thing about all this is that Brentford still have failed to get promoted. I agree they have came close still not cigar. As I said previously we don't know how much they are actually spending on wages etc. They managed to take Leeds best centre half at the time and he must have been on decent wages there.

Stand more of a chance and are closer to getting promoted than we are, unfortunately 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...