TomThumb84 Posted February 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said: If we decide Holden isn't the man. Paul Cook would of course be a good shout- maybe a bit of contractual uncertainty but he says not. IF not him, Adkins? He's an undoubted free agent and his track record is not bad- decent with young players too. Cook will not come here in the current structure and alignment of responsibility. It took 6 weeks to find someone who would and then the mother of all spin campaigns to justify it, as the chosen one was the least likely based on the profile given of who they wanted. Face it, we are stuck, we have not just shot ourselves in the foot, we have taken out both legs because we loaded the gun wrong to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said: Cook will not come here in the current structure and alignment of responsibility. It took 6 weeks to find someone who would and then the mother of all spin campaigns to justify it, as the chosen one was the least likely based on the profile given of who they wanted. Face it, we are stuck, we have not just shot ourselves in the foot, we have taken out both legs because we loaded the gun wrong to begin with. Cook and other managers might have to move a bit too. Can out of work managers be too fussy in this climate? There is uncertainty as to whether Cook is truly a free agent, or if Wigan's administrators would pursue compensation as he may have had a clause on departure, but that aside he was offered 6 month deals at Cardiff and Sheffield Wednesday...he said no. Throw in an increasingly modern structure at a number of clubs and managers who like the older style might have a problem. Mick McCarthy's contract is only 6 months btw. If they stay down, will be interesting to see what happens there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, luke_bristol said: Good luck with the season ticket sales next season at Premier League prices for Holdenball. I feel sorry for DH mind. I don’t really feel that sorry for him. He didn’t have to apply. He could have realised that he wasn’t up to it, but that does take a lot of humility to accept. And he will get 12 months salary if he does get the chop, which knowing SL is at least a month away, if not the end of the season, if we don’t get relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said: Cook will not come here in the current structure and alignment of responsibility. It took 6 weeks to find someone who would and then the mother of all spin campaigns to justify it, as the chosen one was the least likely based on the profile given of who they wanted. Face it, we are stuck, we have not just shot ourselves in the foot, we have taken out both legs because we loaded the gun wrong to begin with. Absolutely. Unless the structure and personnel above the manager/head coach changes, then we will remain in this position, and seriously ****ed. No self-respecting manager is going to agree to acting as Ashton’s patsy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt-Hertz Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 50 minutes ago, City Rocker said: I definitely think it's way worse now. I have happy memories of the fourth division days, mercifully brief though they were. TC rebuilding from the bottom, including a 16 year old kid earning £25 a week YTS money, expectations were low and those of us who were still turning up were properly supportive. Ironically they were good times. I'm normally upbeat and optimistic about all things BCFC, but today I have no positives. None. That Div 4 team would smash these losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 34 minutes ago, BCFCGav said: FWIW, and I fully expect to be in a minority, I’m Holden in. I never want to see us be a revolving door and I really want him to succeed. If we’re in trouble mid March, I’ll probably turn. So who turns first? You or SL? I still have my money on you because SL will not want to admit that the club has got it so badly wrong again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 50 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said: The point is, there is not anyone with any experience, character, ideas around recruitment, input into club culture, that will take the job. In order for anyone to come in and “manage” there will need to be a relinquishment of responsibilities in other key roles that will not happen. In your opinion. I believe that there are hundreds of well qualified ‘ coaches ‘ who would jump at the chance to take this club on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: So let’s assume he bumbles along scraping a few points here and there and we stay up safely (Likely scenario) You'd stick with him moving forward would you ? He started the season with a fit squad, and we were top 6 for months. Earned another shot with a fully fit squad. If we aren’t on course to achieve play offs, with players at his disposal, make the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: So who turns first? You or SL? I still have my money on you because SL will not want to admit that the club has got it so badly wrong again. Ultimately it doesn’t matter who turns first, as I’m completely powerless! I do fear SL being over stubborn, and if I do turn and he’s still refusing, I know that’s gonna frustrate the s*** out of me. Guess we’ll see how it plays out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: SL will not want to admit that the club has got it so badly wrong again. Agreed. We are consistent, consistently getting it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, BCFCGav said: He started the season with a fit squad, and we were top 6 for months. Earned another shot with a fully fit squad. If we aren’t on course to achieve play offs, with players at his disposal, make the change. We were ‘Top’ for 6 months ? Ehhhhhh ? What ? Which ‘top’ , and which six months was this ? We stole some good points early in the season that’s true Any Two games during the season where we’ve played well back to back ? Any evidence of coaching , improvement in any department , or any hint of a plan at all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said: We were ‘Top’ for 6 months ? Ehhhhhh ? What ? Which ‘top’ , and which six months was this ? We stole some good points early in the season that’s true Any Two games during the season where we’ve played well back to back ? Any evidence of coaching , improvement in any department , or any hint of a plan at all ? Re-read it bud ‘we were top 6 for months’. Not ‘we were top for 6 months’. I may be optimistic but even I can’t go that far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Nothing will change for a while, the top end structure of the club will not accommodate a good manager/head coach. Accept this fact I'm afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, BCFCGav said: Re-read it bud ‘we were top 6 for months’. Not ‘we were top for 6 months’. I may be optimistic but even I can’t go that far! My apologies ‘Should have gone to specsavers’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said: My apologies ‘Should have gone to specsavers’ After the day we’ve had mate I really don’t blame you the joys of supporting city eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Cook and other managers might have to move a bit too. Can out of work managers be too fussy in this climate? There is uncertainty as to whether Cook is truly a free agent, or if Wigan's administrators would pursue compensation as he may have had a clause on departure, but that aside he was offered 6 month deals at Cardiff and Sheffield Wednesday...he said no. Throw in an increasingly modern structure at a number of clubs and managers who like the older style might have a problem. Mick McCarthy's contract is only 6 months btw. If they stay down, will be interesting to see what happens there. The structure is not unusual, though I'm not sure it's normal for the CEO to be Head of Recruitment, Director of Football and Chief Scout rolled into one. I suspect most coaches would be ok working with a DoF, provided the person involved was actually qualified for the job and those in the other key roles were likewise. That is not currently the case though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, BCFCGav said: After the day we’ve had mate I really don’t blame you the joys of supporting city eh? Yes Genuinely need new glasses and popping blood vessels doesn’t help ! Its not the results as all the surrounding , worrying signs Johnson unravelled relatively gradually , Holden is doing so at a sprint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, BCFCGav said: He started the season with a fit squad, and we were top 6 for months. Earned another shot with a fully fit squad. If we aren’t on course to achieve play offs, with players at his disposal, make the change. True to that and I would love him to succeed, he seems a top and honest bloke (dare I say a "decent human being") I'm of the opinion that the injury crisis we've had would of been a nightmare for anyone in charge, but Holden doesn't seem to know how to adjust the game plan to suit the players available. Hence the clueless performances now. Say he gets a squad back and is on course for the playoffs, what happens when we get more injuries? You can't just be a good manager when the sun is shining. FWIW today was the final straw for me with Holden. Hope he proves me wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Just now, chinapig said: The structure is not unusual, though I'm not sure it's normal for the CEO to be Head of Recruitment, Director of Football and Chief Scout rolled into one. I suspect most coaches would be ok working with a DoF, provided the person involved was actually qualified for the job and those in the other key roles were likewise. That is not currently the case though. Ashton has a lot to answer China But he doesnt pick the team or choose the random and totally bemusing tactical approach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Just now, Sheltons Army said: Ashton has a lot to answer China But he doesnt pick the team or choose the random and totally bemusing tactical approach Of course, and I am deeply unimpressed with our coaches. But we won't get better ones without structural changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said: Bull5hit or wishful thinking? We'll get frank spencer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted February 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 31 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: In your opinion. I believe that there are hundreds of well qualified ‘ coaches ‘ who would jump at the chance to take this club on. Who? And why were they not appointed? Coach is the key word. Manager - no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 25 minutes ago, M.D said: Nothing will change for a while, the top end structure of the club will not accommodate a good manager/head coach. Accept this fact I'm afraid Which is where I’m at. Ashton has built his empire, with Steve having retreated to Guernsey. It’s the ‘absent manager/Danny Wilson’ syndrome in reverse. The only problem is what Ashton has done is far, far more damaging than the impact of a bad manager. It is also far harder to resolve. The entire structure of the football club has Ashton’s paws all over it. No one dare speak out - only the players who effectively down tools and under-perform. The warning signs are there on that. Said for a while, we’re in trouble. The ‘fix’ needs to be implemented now. Steve. We’re waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted February 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, RedRock said: Which is where I’m at. Ashton has built his empire, with Steve having retreated to Guernsey. It’s the ‘absent manager/Danny Wilson’ syndrome in reverse. The only problem is what Ashton has done is far, far more damaging than the impact of a bad manager. It is also far harder to resolve. The entire structure of the football club has Ashton’s paws all over it. No one dare speak out - only the players who effectively down tools and under-perform. The warning signs are there on that. Said for a while, we’re in trouble. The ‘fix’ needs to be implemented now. Steve. We’re waiting. Warning signs were there before we “officially” employed Ashton in his current role. Have a look what they think of him at Watford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, TomThumb84 said: Who? And why were they not appointed? Coach is the key word. Manager - no chance. The old fashioned ‘ manager ‘ is obsolete in the game today at the higher levels. No man can do it all effectively with the constraints of time and the huge amounts of money involved. The days of a ‘ Terry Cooper ‘ cutting the turf and ferrying the players about in a transit are gone . On the continent it is the norm to have a ‘ head coach ‘ who is responsible for the first team and only the first team. He works with what he gets and sinks or swims . We should have no problem getting a top ‘ coach ‘ if and when we decide the time is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ska Junkie Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 For those that are having a bad weekend, I'm just glad Somerset aren't playing. All the teams I support / follow: BRIS LOST CITY LOST ENGLAND LOST and now to finish my perfect weekend.. DORTMUND LOST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted February 6, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: We should have no problem getting a top ‘ coach ‘ if and when we decide the time is right What - like we did 6 months ago? Do you think we had no problem getting a top coach then? After 6 weeks of looking and ending up with our Assistant Manager who’s previous and only experience was a short spell in charge of Oldham?? Sorry, the role of manager is not obsolete, especially one that relinquishes all control over appointment of medical and recruitment and in turn recruitment of players. To suggest otherwise is incorrect and there are many examples outside of our club where the “manager” or “head coach” has far more influence than Dean Holden at Bristol City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Sniper said: I didn't bother wasting another £10 today as I had a gut feeling that we'd lose. 2 Players who haven't really kicked a ball all season both starting was a bad idea. Maybe one of them, then take them off for the other. Season over IMO, and looking forward I don't think we'll ever get it right on or off the pitch, which is a depressing thought! What do you mean? We've got a soulless new stadium and world-class training facilities that help us to play turgid football - what more do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Dr Balls said: I don’t really feel that sorry for him. He didn’t have to apply. He could have realised that he wasn’t up to it, but that does take a lot of humility to accept. And he will get 12 months salary if he does get the chop, which knowing SL is at least a month away, if not the end of the season, if we don’t get relegated. Why wouldn’t he apply , never had a full time managers job then a championship club offers you one you take it the blame should be purely on the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobintheRed Red Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 3 hours ago, cidered abroad said: This is worse than being in the Fourth Division! Yes il say he needs to go and take the othet two clowns with him coach"s i mean . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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