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Mark Ashton is taking the piss out of us.


DaveInSA

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4 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I don't  blame DH taking it on, giving the situation who would not. If it was just down to the results and bad run, with the injuries I would say he deserves more time, but and this is the real issue I see, DH does not seem to have a vision of how to set the team up, an identity of how we are trying to play or any tactical ability to change the game, therefore these are not down to unfortunate circumstance, but lack of ability which he can not be given time to try and learn and our expense.

I believe SL has put MA in charge to run the business and not to micro manage him but just give sign off to major decisions. SL will have discussed his vision and direction of the club and send him away to achieve within the parameters set. MA will have interviewed and for whatever reason has either decided to back DH to SL, or maybe MA went back to SL and said we are struggling as each candidate does not fulfill X,Y, Z criteria, therefore we should give DH an opportunity as he is aligned with our goals.

Either way I am sure MA is squirming to cover his ass and will chuck DH under the bus to save his skin, but in fairness that is what happens in large companies / corporate world all the time.

His biggest challenge is:

How do I save my arse without blaming the owner’s son?

This appointment of Holden was a task given to MA and JL to run.  I said back in August that MA is taking a huge risk, because if it goes wrong, Jon-boy won’t be the scapegoat.  Holden of course will be the one to go, but despite the poor football, most fans still see MA as the devil.

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In the long term the pandemic may well have done us a favour.  It's forced a pause in our long term recruitment as we are clearly waiting for the numbers under long term contracts to reduce.  The question the Lansdowns have to grapple with , is MA the man to lead this or do we entrust a proper manager again and cede some control. 

 

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44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:
56 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I don't  blame DH taking it on, giving the situation who would not. If it was just down to the results and bad run, with the injuries I would say he deserves more time, but and this is the real issue I see, DH does not seem to have a vision of how to set the team up, an identity of how we are trying to play or any tactical ability to change the game, therefore these are not down to unfortunate circumstance, but lack of ability which he can not be given time to try and learn and our expense.

I believe SL has put MA in charge to run the business and not to micro manage him but just give sign off to major decisions. SL will have discussed his vision and direction of the club and send him away to achieve within the parameters set. MA will have interviewed and for whatever reason has either decided to back DH to SL, or maybe MA went back to SL and said we are struggling as each candidate does not fulfill X,Y, Z criteria, therefore we should give DH an opportunity as he is aligned with our goals.

Either way I am sure MA is squirming to cover his ass and will chuck DH under the bus to save his skin, but in fairness that is what happens in large companies / corporate world all the time.

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His biggest challenge is:

How do I save my arse without blaming the owner’s son?

This appointment of Holden was a task given to MA and JL to run.  I said back in August that MA is taking a huge risk, because if it goes wrong, Jon-boy won’t be the scapegoat.  Holden of course will be the one to go, but despite the poor football, most fans still see MA as the devil.

The reality of the situation is, no one on here really knows how DH got the job and what SL or MA's actual involvement is in the playing squad. Its funny but if you go back a couple of years, there are plenty of threads on how lucky we are to have MA, in particular with regards to transfers. But as you say many see MA as the devil, because that is a populous view and maybe due to the corporate image that not many relate to and those in large companies don't like. I have no clue if MA is any good at his job or worth the very nice salary, but do know that SL needs someone of his type running the business, but maybe with a slightly different remit if needed to attract a top head coach / manager.

The thing which is not MA's fault other than his involvement in DH's appointment, is the problems on the pitch, no direction or style, tactically inept and I believe DH may have lost the dressing room. You can get away with a lot of younger players, but the honeymoon period is over and now has many older experienced players with some knowing him from being the assistant and will not be frighted to say their piece and undermine him.

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Apart from appearances on TV and the radio has anyone actually met MA however briefly?

If you have what was your impression?

So much of what is being written seems to be guess work. (See below).

For myself, I’ve always gone on my gut reaction on first impressions, and am in the thinks he’s clever because of the buzzzword speak group.

I can’t really get past the ‘BRISTOL’ comment on the GT show, tells me all I need to know.

When he leaves we won’t be in a better position than when he arrived (officially).

 

 

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11 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

The reality of the situation is, no one on here really knows how DH got the job and what SL or MA's actual involvement is in the playing squad. Its funny but if you go back a couple of years, there are plenty of threads on how lucky we are to have MA, in particular with regards to transfers.

I, for one have never criticised the values he’s got for our players, and nor do I make him solely to blame for the current mess / cluster####.  But when you self-promote and tell people that you see yourself as the central person at the club (copy of Dan Ashworth’s wheel of importance) then you have to take the responsibility and accountability that goes with it...and the salary.

But as you say many see MA as the devil, because that is a populous view and maybe due to the corporate image that not many relate to and those in large companies don't like. I have no clue if MA is any good at his job or worth the very nice salary, but do know that SL needs someone of his type running the business, but maybe with a slightly different remit if needed to attract a top head coach / manager.

Many of us said pre appointment that you can’t appoint the “best” and it be 100% on your terms.  There has to be some compromise.  It is clear that MA and JL weren’t prepared to do that, guided by SL’s “we want to continue what Lee was doing”.

The thing which is not MA's fault other than his involvement in DH's appointment, is the problems on the pitch, no direction or style, tactically inept and I believe DH may have lost the dressing room.

That’s where we will probably disagree (that’s fine btw).  If you want to have such close involvement with the multiple departments of a football club, in particular recruitment, then you have to challenge why you sign each player.  Holden has been restricted, unlike Johnson, who he allowed / facilitated (you decide) to bring in countless players without fit to a plan.  That is where I lay a huge amount of blame.  From a playing style point of view, why isn’t he telling Holden to go back to 352, blah, blah, blah?  Because he hasn’t got the skills to do so.  So why not bring someone in with the skills to re-enforce the plan?  Because it would undermine him.  Good bosses bring in people to cover their own skills gaps, bring challenge etc.  Bad bosses fear good people who will ultimately expose them.

Not sure about “lost the dressing room”....it’s a crap term imho.

You can get away with a lot of younger players, but the honeymoon period is over and now has many older experienced players with some knowing him from being the assistant and will not be frighted to say their piece and undermine him.

I’m erring towards Dean needing to go, but I think he’s been badly let down too.  I feel huge sympathy for him.  Nor do I think replacing Holden is solving the problem.


comments above ⬆️⬆️⬆️

 

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4 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Apart from appearances on TV and the radio has anyone actually met MA however briefly?

If you have what was your impression?

So much of what is being written seems to be guess work. (See below).

For myself, I’ve always gone on my gut reaction on first impressions, and am in the thinks he’s clever because of the buzzzword speak group.

I can’t really get past the ‘BRISTOL’ comment on the GT show, tells me all I need to know.

When he leaves we won’t be in a better position than when he arrived (officially).

 

 

Yes, I have.

My impression was that he loves being around true-football people and wants to feel like he’s one of the footballers in the room.  Football-wannabe.

I honestly couldn’t care less about the words he uses.  In many respects, I kind of expect it.

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, I have.

My impression was that he loves being around true-football people and wants to feel like he’s one of the footballers in the room.  Football-wannabe.

I honestly couldn’t care less about the words he uses.  In many respects, I kind of expect it.

What do you mean by true-football people?

How do you judge him as a person other than on the way he speaks and conducts himself?

Was he on ‘duty’ so to speak?

 

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes, I have.

My impression was that he loves being around true-football people and wants to feel like he’s one of the footballers in the room.  Football-wannabe.

I honestly couldn’t care less about the words he uses.  In many respects, I kind of expect it.

Maybe that's part of the issue Dave, he gets too involved in the football stuff rather than concentrating on the business? 'Football-wannabe' doesn't surprise me TBH. 

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1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

Maybe that's part of the issue Dave, he gets too involved in the football stuff rather than concentrating on the business? 'Football-wannabe' doesn't surprise me TBH. 

He's bound to be too involved as he is in control of all day to day football operations. He fills multiple roles, most of which he is not qualified for.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I’m disappointed in Dean in many ways.  I accept injuries forced him away from his “preferred” system early season, but why hasn’t he gone back to it (I accept who is gonna play LWB, is a question to answer)?

This is where his inexperience has shown.

Agree but for me you can shoehorn far more players into the lwb role than you can the left back role, so for me the shorter we got on left backs the more easy the switch to 3 at the back should have been, which is why I cannot fathom why we have not gone back to it, its not a formation I particularly like but if its Holden preferred system then why aren't we playing it? 

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4 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He's bound to be too involved as he is in control of all day to day football operations. He fills multiple roles, most of which he is not qualified for.

Appreciated CP but maybe there's a line between the 'operations' and running of the team that he shouldn't cross? By all means keep a watching brief and question those that organise the team but stay detached and let those that are 'qualified' alone to do their job. 

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7 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

What do you mean by true-football people?

How do you judge him as a person other than on the way he speaks and conducts himself?

Was he on ‘duty’ so to speak?

 

Someone who’s been extensively involved with the football-playing side.  That could be as a former player, or someone who’s worked as a coach / assistant, etc, etc.  Basically not an “administrator”.

MA is inspired by Dan Ashworth.  But go and look at DA’s background.  It’s not just that he was a former player, it’s actually a short-lived playing career (at Norwich) but then as assistant manager, coach, etc.  He’s a true football person, but with a real aptitude for football-business.  MA is a football-business person, he lacks the other bit.

That’s how I see it anyway.

Yes, he was on duty when I met him, and I spoke with him and observed him with others too.

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6 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Agree but for me you can shoehorn far more players into the lwb role than you can the left back role, so for me the shorter we got on left backs the more easy the switch to 3 at the back should have been, which is why I cannot fathom why we have not gone back to it, its not a formation I particularly like but if its Holden preferred system then why aren't we playing it? 

I agree.  If you take different ways of playing WBs, you can play it with full-backs or wingers.  Problem is they’re either injured or we sold them!

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Just now, Ska Junkie said:

Appreciated CP but maybe there's a line between the 'operations' and running of the team that he shouldn't cross? By all means keep a watching brief and question those that organise the team but stay detached and let those that are 'qualified' alone to do their job. 

I'm not suggesting he gets involved in team selection but (and I am repeating myself again here!) we have no separate Head of Recruitment, Director of Football or Chief Scout because he effectively fills all those roles. None of which he is qualified for.

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2 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm not suggesting he gets involved in team selection but (and I am repeating myself again here!) we have no separate Head of Recruitment, Director of Football or Chief Scout because he effectively fills all those roles. None of which he is qualified for.

More NUTSHELLS than an eaten bag of monkey nuts.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m disappointed in Dean in many ways.  I accept injuries forced him away from his “preferred” system early season, but why hasn’t he gone back to it (I accept who is gonna play LWB, is a question to answer)?

This is where his inexperience has shown.

Sums it up for me. Inexperience is starting to show in a number of ways and what disappoints me is neither Laurel or Hardy working with him seem to pipe up.

Holden is learning on the job and making mistakes as EVERY SINGLE SUPPORTER, positive or negative, knew he would. Apart from a load of nondescript cliches Mark Ashton never explained the Boards reasoning for putting him in this position in any detail at any point.

But we all know Holden will be the very first to be told to sling his hook.

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47 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Apart from appearances on TV and the radio has anyone actually met MA however briefly?

If you have what was your impression?

So much of what is being written seems to be guess work. (See below).

For myself, I’ve always gone on my gut reaction on first impressions, and am in the thinks he’s clever because of the buzzzword speak group.

I can’t really get past the ‘BRISTOL’ comment on the GT show, tells me all I need to know.

When he leaves we won’t be in a better position than when he arrived (officially).

 

 

Yes, I’ve met him. And you know my opinion.  

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3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He’s not the director of BCH....he’s the Director of BCFC....a £16m Business.  That makes is worse!!!

Who is the Director for BCH then? Assumed it'd have been Ashton.

Reading however, excess of £1m in most recent accounts, Business of £20m.

Is ridiculous by normal Business POV but it's hard to find, to define like for like comparables in football. Non Parachute clubs, with a decent sized infrastructure based in the South.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Who is the Director for BCH then? Assumed it'd have been Ashton.

Reading however, excess of £1m in most recent accounts, Business of £20m.

Is ridiculous by normal Business POV but it's hard to find, to define like for like comparables in football. Non Parachute clubs, with a decent sized infrastructure based in the South.

Nope.

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AGLtd

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Marshall listed twice in case you thought I’d left off Ashton! ?

Jon-boy the Lansdown family member!!!

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:


comments above ⬆️⬆️⬆️

 

I now subscribe to the thinking that it would be better if Ashton left. This is not necessarily because of the so say corporate speak, etc., but basically for 5 years since he arrived things in the main are not working. Yes, we have received good fees for some players, but we have not achieved the goals in terms of the investment we have made from this activity. Quite simply the lack of coherent style of play and organisation of resources (team/players) are not good enough. Ultimately the accountability for this has to come down to the people/person who employ the coaches, staff responsible for the team performance, whether that is coaching, training or medical staff. If we compare our performances to clubs with lesser investment then I’m afraid that it has been pretty poor. MA may be good at his job, most of us just guess. But the bottom line is that the quality of the football most of the time has been consistently average, the fitness and injury situation has been the most alarming in the 54 seasons I’ve followed City, and the recruitment policy seems to have become increasingly ill focused. So in the final analysis ask yourself (or rather Stve Lansdown should be asking himself) who is accountable for this?

I actually believe we have some decent players at this level. Our problem is to find the right management team to effectively organise, galvanise the players to show the ability to play to the sum of its parts, indeed to over achieve. I’m no great fan of McCarthy, Warnock and the Allardyces of this world in terms of their football, but respect what they have generally achieved out of the players at their disposal at the very least in organising a team to compete. I wouldn’t advocate taking on these managers for a long term plan, but would at least expect appointments that can organise, and motivate players. In fact what has frustrated me most is that for all our superior philosophy to have a modern, forward thinking approach to our football playing philosophy, we often look wanting and inferior in technique and entertainment to some of these so-called direct sides.  

If we do wish to be a forward thinking  progressive club, can we start again by getting a management team and structure from top down, that can implement a plan taht everyone might get behind and try to make it work. Rant over I’m going to get a beer now.

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3 hours ago, Countryfile said:

Apart from appearances on TV and the radio has anyone actually met MA however briefly?

If you have what was your impression?

So much of what is being written seems to be guess work. (See below).

For myself, I’ve always gone on my gut reaction on first impressions, and am in the thinks he’s clever because of the buzzzword speak group.

I can’t really get past the ‘BRISTOL’ comment on the GT show, tells me all I need to know.

When he leaves we won’t be in a better position than when he arrived (officially)

Can’t say I’ve met him, but he interviewed a good mate’s ex when looking for a PA in 2018. Suffice to say, he spent most of the interview trying to crack onto her. In her words, he was a total sleaze bag. She had no axe to grind with him either. 

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40 minutes ago, ray savino said:

I now subscribe to the thinking that it would be better if Ashton left. This is not necessarily because of the so say corporate speak, etc., but basically for 5 years since he arrived things in the main are not working. Yes, we have received good fees for some players, but we have not achieved the goals in terms of the investment we have made from this activity. Quite simply the lack of coherent style of play and organisation of resources (team/players) are not good enough. Ultimately the accountability for this has to come down to the people/person who employ the coaches, staff responsible for the team performance, whether that is coaching, training or medical staff. If we compare our performances to clubs with lesser investment then I’m afraid that it has been pretty poor. MA may be good at his job, most of us just guess. But the bottom line is that the quality of the football most of the time has been consistently average, the fitness and injury situation has been the most alarming in the 54 seasons I’ve followed City, and the recruitment policy seems to have become increasingly ill focused. So in the final analysis ask yourself (or rather Stve Lansdown should be asking himself) who is accountable for this?

I actually believe we have some decent players at this level. Our problem is to find the right management team to effectively organise, galvanise the players to show the ability to play to the sum of its parts, indeed to over achieve. I’m no great fan of McCarthy, Warnock and the Allardyces of this world in terms of their football, but respect what they have generally achieved out of the players at their disposal at the very least in organising a team to compete. I wouldn’t advocate taking on these managers for a long term plan, but would at least expect appointments that can organise, and motivate players. In fact what has frustrated me most is that for all our superior philosophy to have a modern, forward thinking approach to our football playing philosophy, we often look wanting and inferior in technique and entertainment to some of these so-called direct sides.  

If we do wish to be a forward thinking  progressive club, can we start again by getting a management team and structure from top down, that can implement a plan taht everyone might get behind and try to make it work. Rant over I’m going to get a beer now.

Another “in a nutshell” post this weekend.

For the record, a certain Gary Rowett, yes the one who said his game plan for City was his simplest ever, was a player under John Beck and Gary Johnson. Perhaps he listened to the right bits.

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6 hours ago, maxjak said:

We all Hope..............but Holden will NOT turn it round.  The outcome will be just as many of us predicted at the very beginning of his reign, he will be let  go.  If they had only looked at the history of similar appointments, they would have seen, that those who ignore previous history.............are doomed to repeat it.    This whole "yes man" saga is embarassing and  so, so predictable.

I totally get your point, I'm afraid that's just me "The Eternal Optimist", like all of us all I want is for City to be successful, which is becoming very clear that under the present hierarchy will not happen. Lets not forget that injuries (that's another story) have been a huge burden but it doesn't forgive the lack of direction.

I still like DH a lot as a straight talking no nonsense type (will not use the term Human) but he just doesn't have the experience needed for the top job..............  Yet !

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