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Mark Ashton is taking the piss out of us.


DaveInSA

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1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

Just seen the link to it yeah, still think its a dodgy piece for any writer to be putting out publicly without a firm basis of fact.

Oh totally. I’m not fan of Ashton by any stretch, but the lengths some people have gone to criticise him is just a bit weird imo.

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On 06/02/2021 at 17:38, Harry said:

He’s “in charge of all football matters”. 
 

We don’t have a 1st Team Manager. 
We don’t have a Head of Recruitment. 
We don’t have a Chief Scout. 
We don’t have a Director of Football. 
 

We have 1 person who is in control of everything. So, when footballing performances and results are poor, the person who is self confessed “in charge of all football matters”, is surely the one who is responsible. 

Yup 

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Odd one isn’t it?

There’s a line in that item that stands out as being totally out of character with the writers style. Almost as if the words have come from someone else and that someone is itk. How bizarre. 

The plot thickens. 

 

Anyhow, back to the football and I strongly predict we will turn over a disinterested Sheffield Utd this week in the Cup. That’ll give a stay of execution for a few I suspect. 

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1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

I don't see a lot wrong in that interview but didn't see what was taken down. can anyone tell us what was actually said?

EDIT: I think I've found it...

DEAN HOLDEN ISN’T THE PROBLEM FOR BRISTOL CITY, IT’S MARK ASHTON – OPINION

 
 
7th February 2021
 
 
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Bristol City raised questions when appointing former boss Lee Johnson’s assistant, Dean Holden, in August over well-established names like Chris Hughton, Mick McCarthy, and Paul Cook. It was a long process that spread over a month, in order to find ‘the right man to move this club forward.’ Now that sounds all well and good, but in reality, something seemed dodgy from the start.

According to reports, Chris Hughton thought he had the job within a few weeks of Johnson’s sacking, and just after the initial interviews. That obviously wasn’t the case, with Bristol City opting for further interviews that drew out the process even longer. Right from that very moment I knew there was something fishy going on, something that’s been evident for a while now, Mark Ashton’s the problem.

Whatever manager the club decides to bring in isn’t going to have control over signings, sales, and new contracts. And while that may work in some circumstances, in others it is an absolute mess. Ashton is the one in discussions, not the boss, and I’m not sure that’s right. If you were the manager of football club, would you want to be just kept in touch, or would you want to bring in your own players? It’s a no-brainer. Now, it is publically known that ‘Dean has the final say over dealings’, which is okay, but not ideal, you’d want to do it yourself, surely?

This situation seems to be getting out of hand at the moment as star striker Famara Diedhou’s contract has been an issue all season. If Ashton is telling the truth, then Bristol City have offered Famara a massive deal, one of, if not the biggest at the club. And if Holden is telling the truth, the Senegalese international loves the club and wants to stay. If that’s the case, why’ve we heard nothing?

That’s not all, there’s the worrying injury crisis, the fact there’s not a single left-back currently able to play, and then the ghosts of Joe Williams and Liam Walsh, the shoddy medical staff, and finally, the absolutely abysmal recruitment.

 

Mark Ashton’s transfer history

Now I have got to give the man credit, he’s a great negotiator, outstanding. He’s sold seven players for £75 million. Adam Webster and Josh Brownhill were bought for a combined £3.8 million, and sold to Brighton and Burnley for £20 million and £7 million. Excellent profit. But six of those seven weren’t signed by him, some not even signed at all in fact, hats off to the academy.

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£40 million of that was reinvested in the playing squad, with quite a few high profile signings. From that bunch, (Kalas £8m, Diedhiou £5m, Baker £4m, Wells £4m, Massengo £4m, Dasilva £3m, Palmer £3m, Bentley £2m, Weimann £2m) only Famara Diedhou, Daniel Bentley and Andreas Weimann have been worth the fee paid.

Nathan Baker, Tomas Kalas, and Jay Dasilva are class on their day, but since turning all three of those deals permanent they’ve been injury magnets. Kasey Palmer has fell out of favour twice, and has been loaned out in that period.

Nahki Wells was an interesting one from the start. He scored a tonne of goals by January 2020, which prompted City to sign him, but hasn’t shown the form he had at QPR. What makes the Wells signing look even worse was the fact the club chose to sign him over Ivan Toney. (Bristol Post)

Han-Noah Massengo is the future, he’s still only nineteen years old and will play at a higher level. I’m certain of that. That being said, he’s had his ups and downs in his first eighteen months of English football.

If Bristol City didn’t have such a plethora of homegrown talent, they’d be in an awful position. Zak Vyner and Antoine Semenyo are within the next crop of young players who will play in the Premier League, following in the footsteps of Joe Bryan, Bobby Decordova-Reid, and Lloyd Kelly. Looking at the talent the club has had it just makes you wonder what could have been with adequate recruitment.

Bristol City’s recent injury and contract issues

Moving towards the present day, there’s a growing sense that the past three injury-plagued seasons have been down to the medical staff that were brought in under Ashton’s watch. This covid-impacted season has only brought that to the forefront. Three weeks ago I published an article on the injury crisis at Bristol City, and since then the situation has got much worse. Although Joe Williams has now returned from the abyss and started his first game against Cardiff, Tommy Rowe is going to be out until about April and Chris Martin and Hakeeb Adelakun won’t play until next season with severe hamstring and back injuries.

walshedit.jpg

Liam Walsh hasn’t returned, and still isn’t in contract for next season, despite the club’s insistence that he will be offered a new deal. Will he really? I doubt it. Ashton confirmed on BBC Radio Bristol’s ‘Sound of the City’ that they haven’t formally offered any contract yet. And to be fair, I get that, he hasn’t set foot on the field this year, and has had some injuries in the past. That being said, he’s an excellent midfielder who at his best he could be one of the better midfielders in the Championship.

Dean Holden’s first half a season

On to Dean Holden, I think the injuries are really starting to hit home for Bristol City. That’s not his fault. The playing squad is incredibly limited right now and is affecting not only how the team plays, but what shape they play, and who plays in that shape. There are glaring holes such as the left of the defense which are being exploited by experienced managers like Mick McCarthy yesterday. Adrian Mariappa probably feels hard done by too, but there’s nothing City can do about it. And that’s on Ashton for not bringing in an emergency left back.

Six straight away defeats, and three losses on the bounce, isn’t good, but the whole situation is less than ideal. At the start of the season with the majority of the squad available Bristol City were looking like one of the best sides in the division. Andi Weimann then got struck down for the year and it’s not been the same since. I’ve got to give Dean credit. This side’s ability to grind out a result when you don’t expect it is pretty good. Much better than under Johnson IMO. The recent performances against Preston and Huddersfield are two of them, as well as Millwall in the FA Cup.

Would I say top 6 has gone now? Probably. Is Dean Holden the right man to ‘bring Bristol City forward’? I don’t know. Change is certainly needed at the club, starting with Ashton. But don’t blame Dean Holden, for now.

For more like this, please visit our dedicated football page which you can find right here. Meanwhile, follow us on Twitter for coverage of the Premier League, Bundesliga and much more.

The Athletic piece was from David Ornstein. This guy is not David Ornstein. 

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41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No disrespect to the guy who wrote it, because it’s a decent enough read for a fan / blog, but if The Athletic are publishing stuff like this, they are gonna get lawsuits all over the place, and their reputation will bomb..

Where's the bit that could bring about legal action? Apart from the "shoddy" reference I'd say there's not much for them to grumble about. 

Pretty flaky legal case I'd imagine. 

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Just now, CotswoldRed said:

Where's the bit that could bring about legal action? Apart from the "shoddy" reference I'd say there's not much for them to grumble about. 

Pretty flaky legal case I'd imagine. 

Not this article per se, but it’s not the kind of article they advertise what the publication is all about.

Is this seriously “the” article they published and then got taken down?

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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Not this article per se, but it’s not the kind of article they advertise what the publication is all about.

Is this seriously “the” article they published and then got taken down?

No it isn’t, the one that got taken down was by Ornstein. All very odd

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30 minutes ago, redordead1 said:

Has anyone reached out to Ornstein to ask why it was pulled? 


Concerning if the club is looking to censor the free press.
 

It’s a pretty shoddy article to be fair, not especially tarnished by facts.  Does the freedom of the press cover the right to say things that are patently untrue?  I’m not saying that this article necessarily includes information that is false, but the fact is the press’s freedom only goes as far as the right to tell the truth and give opinions.  The law of libel prevents the press from telling deliberate untruths, and the prevention of the telling of untruths can hardly be considered ‘censorship’.

It seems that people are trying to make something out of nothing here, as they are with the structure of the club, which doesn’t strike me as particularly unusual.  Whether it’s working or not is another question, but the notion that its structure is fundamentally designed for some untold sinister and crooked purposes is quite ridiculous.  As far as I can see the fact is that there is a structure at the club which is not unusual in football.  Whether it works is another matter.

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12 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s a pretty shoddy article to be fair, not especially tarnished by facts.  Does the freedom of the press cover the right to say things that are patently untrue?  I’m not saying that this article necessarily includes information that is false, but the fact is the press’s freedom only goes as far as the right to tell the truth and give opinions.  The law of libel prevents the press from telling deliberate untruths, and the prevention of the telling of untruths can hardly be considered ‘censorship’.

It seems that people are trying to make something out of nothing here, as they are with the structure of the club, which doesn’t strike me as particularly unusual.  Whether it’s working or not is another question, but the notion that its structure is fundamentally designed for some untold sinister and crooked purposes is quite ridiculous.  As far as I can see the fact is that there is a structure at the club which is not unusual in football.  Whether it works is another matter.

The cut and pasted article on here appears to be from some random person writing on the same subject, from the site seems like someone trying to start a career in journalism. It doesn't appear to be the Ornstein article.

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s a pretty shoddy article to be fair, not especially tarnished by facts.  Does the freedom of the press cover the right to say things that are patently untrue?  I’m not saying that this article necessarily includes information that is false, but the fact is the press’s freedom only goes as far as the right to tell the truth and give opinions.  The law of libel prevents the press from telling deliberate untruths, and the prevention of the telling of untruths can hardly be considered ‘censorship’.

It seems that people are trying to make something out of nothing here, as they are with the structure of the club, which doesn’t strike me as particularly unusual.  Whether it’s working or not is another question, but the notion that its structure is fundamentally designed for some untold sinister and crooked purposes is quite ridiculous.  As far as I can see the fact is that there is a structure at the club which is not unusual in football.  Whether it works is another matter.

Well said. I've no comment on the supposed article, but the utter dangerous garbage that is routinely spouted in this country, all on the say-so of a few media moguls is a travesty. Our media is pure gutter. 

If we can champion the truth, as much as free speech, then I'm happy. 

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2 hours ago, redordead1 said:

Has anyone reached out to Ornstein to ask why it was pulled? 


Concerning if the club is looking to censor the free press.
 

You can’t be censored by a football club if you are telling the truth and/or not breaking libel and defamation laws. You just tell the FC to F OFF in that instance. The fact that the article was pulled should indicate there was something very dodgy in it.

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1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

The cut and pasted article on here appears to be from some random person writing on the same subject, from the site seems like someone trying to start a career in journalism. It doesn't appear to be the Ornstein article.

This has been pointed out on numerous occasions in this thread now - there are 2 articles, one from a random fan, another the article that got pulled...but some seem to be "choosing" to ignore that fact so they can continue to criticise critics of the club. 

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3 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s a pretty shoddy article to be fair, not especially tarnished by facts.  Does the freedom of the press cover the right to say things that are patently untrue?  I’m not saying that this article necessarily includes information that is false, but the fact is the press’s freedom only goes as far as the right to tell the truth and give opinions.  The law of libel prevents the press from telling deliberate untruths, and the prevention of the telling of untruths can hardly be considered ‘censorship’.

It seems that people are trying to make something out of nothing here, as they are with the structure of the club, which doesn’t strike me as particularly unusual.  Whether it’s working or not is another question, but the notion that its structure is fundamentally designed for some untold sinister and crooked purposes is quite ridiculous.  As far as I can see the fact is that there is a structure at the club which is not unusual in football.  Whether it works is another matter.

Where did you see the article? Think you’re getting confused with another article that’s appeared on this thread.

I’m referring to the article written by Ornstein, a very experienced former BBC and current Athletic journalist who’s employers editors and legal departments clearly understand libel better than you or I. 

Hope this clears things up for you.

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On 07/02/2021 at 01:24, The Constant Rabbit said:

Hey Mr P

You have the same issue that a lot of us have.

We love Bristol City Football Club.

People won't be buying the club, they will be buying the stadium, offices, houses and undeveloped land.

The football is an attraction along with Rugby and Basketball. Concerts and Comic-Cons. Weddings and Conventions.

The incentive comes from Premiership football money + marketing the brand. Shiny shirts, massive mugs, over-priced Easter-Eggs.

To have the Prem as a carrot, Lansdown needs us in the Championship. He is now spending as little as possible to do so (see the old players now signing) and off-loading all assets with value.

The infrastructure is 75% - 80% complete.

Still some PP outstanding, and to be submitted as i understand it. Plus 'change of use' permission for the Arena.

Consortiums I was told about are from USA and China. No Middle-eastern as yet.

It's all word of mouth, business contacts, no 'done deals'.

Don't forget, we are talking £1.5 Billion minimum, I'd have thought. Probably more. Hence the PP outcomes, and ones yet to be submitted.

All allegedly of course.

Don't want to club hassling Tom again.

Hi TCR.

Didn't get round to this particular post until remembering it earlier.

Yep, that's why we're all here!

Consortium would buy Stadium, officers, houses, undeveloped land? The old players signing- not averse to some, or short term as we do get a lot of injuries or simply a punt for a couple of months- see Rodri- but the number we've signed of late really is striking! Thinking last couple of seasons. Upside of it might see promotion become more likely with a lot of nous and know-how and there's still scope for a decently aged side when fit- that second bit is also a problem as older players may get injured more, may need managing and rotating more.

I digress, so Consortium would buy all that- what might become of the Club? Rent AG off Consortium at a "Fair Value"- ie a lot? Probably more than we pay now anyway as you do mention Rent in a few posts but not sure how high it is- could be included in AGL Ground Rent maybe? Sure some of that is Rugby but could a good chunk be the club? Certainly not reflected in Operating leases.

£1.5bn is the value of all that Real Estate and land? Would these- mooted let's say- Consortiums be up for investing in the side (within FFP limits obvs) or would that be a bit of a lower priority for them?

One thing I can't quite reconcile tbh is the exit strategy vs the recent loan secured against AG. There's probably more I can't reconcile but this one springs to mind most readily.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/05450440/filing-history/MzI4MDkzNjY3M2FkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

Feels like one of a few scenarios to me:

  1. Loan is a sign of medium to long term commitment.
  2. Loan repayment remains binding the club in order to keep playing at AG irrespective of SL's ownership status/control. Charge over assets- repay or else.
  3. Loan is a way of formalising transfer from Bristol City Holdings- on shore- to Pula- which isn't. Whether he's still in charge of the club or not, repayments as outlined in 2) still continue or AG goes to Pula- even after other assets sold up, and as soon as it goes to Pula he can sell on his terms.

Sure there are a few more but these 3 certainly spring to mind. One more quite optimistic one- or theoretically anyway- is if it is a way to secure the Stadium and yes take some rent and commercial income, but secure it for Sport as any club sale would have him as owner and prevent asset stripping/loans secured against it from Commercial Property companies etc. As SL's loan would take primacy.

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On 06/02/2021 at 17:38, Harry said:

He’s “in charge of all football matters”. 
 

We don’t have a 1st Team Manager. 
We don’t have a Head of Recruitment. 
We don’t have a Chief Scout. 
We don’t have a Director of Football. 
 

We have 1 person who is in control of everything. So, when footballing performances and results are poor, the person who is self confessed “in charge of all football matters”, is surely the one who is responsible. 

OK, so ...  now that the owner has stepped in and found us a 1st Team Manager, but we saw today against very poor opposition what a complete mess Mark Ashton has made.

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1 hour ago, Daniro said:

OK, so ...  now that the owner has stepped in and found us a 1st Team Manager, but we saw today against very poor opposition what a complete mess Mark Ashton has made.

has he even appeared since NP came in? ive not seen any slimy vids of "ive got this,that or the other"  almost like hes on the gardening duty?

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34 minutes ago, Banjo Red said:

Hopefully he will **** off to Ipswich.

Might not be the case. from NP. From OS

.’ I’ve had tremendous support from everyone at the football club. I’ve spoken with Steve and Jon (Lansdown) on a few occasions, Mark Ashton has been absolutely fantastic - the support he has given me has been outstanding.’

So, it seems the ‘team’ are going to get on like a house on fire’. Good oh.  The MA agenda will be consigned to the history book soon and next season  the effort will be concentrated on getting a side to challenge fit for purpose, 

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