Dean Holden post Cardiff

[Phileas Fogg]

I felt it sounded like a man who’s out of ideas. Our failure to strengthen at LB is a total disaster, McCarthy even admitted they purposely exploited it - as you’d expect. It’ll happen every single week until one of our LBs gets fit.

[Kid in the Riot]

7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I felt it sounded like a man who’s out of ideas. Our failure to strengthen at LB is a total disaster, McCarthy even admitted they purposely exploited it - as you’d expect. It’ll happen every single week until one of our LBs gets fit.

Someone who would know told me DH had no ideas of his own. I think some were impressed when in his first press conference he identified the issues we had during the end of the LJ era, however it is one thing to be able to identify a problem, and quite another to solve it.

He's had over 30 games now to show us what his problem-solving skills look like, and frankly, and unsurprisingly given his level of ability and experience, they have been found wanting. 

We are still turgid to watch. We don't create anywhere near enough chances, our midfield is non-existent, it doesn't create and it doesn't protect the defence. We look badly coached and badly organised. Players are going backwards, our star player is still our goalkeeper.

DH simply doesn't have the answers. He is, entirely predictably, an LJ continuity candidate but is delivering even worse football with arguably a slightly better squad. 

His demise is inevitable, and whether it's in 8 games time, 8 weeks, or at the end of the season, we will once again be on the hunt for a new head coach in the not too distant future. 

Another failed managerial appointment to add to the Steve Lansdown CV. 

[Rob k]

8 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Someone who would know told me DH had no ideas of his own. I think some were impressed when in his first press conference he identified the issues we had during the end of the LJ era, however it is one thing to be able to identify a problem, and quite another to solve it.

He's had over 30 games now to show us what his problem-solving skills look like, and frankly, and unsurprisingly given his level of ability and experience, they have been found wanting. 

We are still turgid to watch. We don't create anywhere near enough chances, our midfield is non-existent, it doesn't create and it doesn't protect the defence. We look badly coached and badly organised. Players are going backwards, our star player is still our goalkeeper.

DH simply doesn't have the answers. He is, entirely predictably, an LJ continuity candidate but is delivering even worse football with arguably a slightly better squad. 

His demise is inevitable, and whether it's in 8 games time, 8 weeks, or at the end of the season, we will once again be on the hunt for a new head coach in the not too distant future. 

Another failed managerial appointment to add to the Steve Lansdown CV. 

I think it also shows that LJ and his coaching team were doing better than we thought with the players at his disposal.

God knows where we go from here, im not in to sacking managers etc but it’s clearly not and is never going to with this coaching team. It’s also imperative that Ashton is shown the door pronto or told he no longer has anything to do with recruitment or player identification.

‘If’ i was SL I’d go all out to sell the project to Howe, his coaching team are available and i think we have players who should be performing much better. I think the job would be attractive to a number of candidates who may be interested in more than just money....time will tell
 

 

[WarksRobin]

7 hours ago, Olé said:

Are these players he's torn into the same ones who all desperately wanted him as manager - and that's not a narrative, I remember for 48 hours they literally were all on social media liking and re-tweeting anything about the appointment, even Nahki Wells who barely mentions the club in those channels the rest of the time.

I had a horrible feeling at the time that it wasn't the best endorsement - of course it's great if players love their coach but ideally borne out of respect for their leadership and success like what Cotterill fostered as opposed to because he was a nice guy as a coach and you liked them as a person. We've all seen the story before.

If you've won the players endorsement by being a nice guy, then you're trading on that for continued loyalty, so probably not quite as easy to tear strips off them, and I don't think Holden is that kind of guy even if he says otherwise today. The story arc has gone full circle to 7 or 8 years ago with players holding the upper hand.

Maybe the players were optimistically hoping for a fresh approach when Dean was appointed. Unfortunately we now have two tombolas, one for formation and the other for the players.

I just can’t believe that if an experienced coach came into the club today, they would pick 4-5 young players in the side when there are experienced Championship players available. No disrespect to our academy products but the current approach is not doing them any favours.

[WarksRobin]

15 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I think it also shows that LJ and his coaching team were doing better than we thought with the players at his disposal.

God knows where we go from here, im not in to sacking managers etc but it’s clearly not and is never going to with this coaching team. It’s also imperative that Ashton is shown the door pronto or told he no longer has anything to do with recruitment or player identification.

‘If’ i was SL I’d go all out to sell the project to Howe, his coaching team are available and i think we have players who should be performing much better. I think the job would be attractive to a number of candidates who may be interested in more than just money....time will tell
 

 

I’m still a bit wary of Howe. He had a lot of financial backing at Bournemouth and I’m not sure we could offer the same.

[EmissionImpossible]

10 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

It's not Holdens fault - it never was.

He knew he wasn't up to it - but this job sets him up for life.

 

Who here wouldn't have taken it.

 

It's Stephen 'my money' Lansdown's fault.

No one else's

Lansdown has zero interest in Football now - its the real estate and Bears.

 

This is a nonsense post. You have no clue with your comments about Steve Lansdown.

[Rob k]

4 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

I’m still a bit wary of Howe. He had a lot of financial backing at Bournemouth and I’m not sure we could offer the same.

Don’t get me wrong as with any appointment there would be an element of risk as we can’t go out and get the very best, but I’d be much more confident with a Howe and his team who have got out this division and know what it takes. 
I think this is part goes back to the frustrations we probably all share when we knew we should have done this when we appointed Holden, we had a good opportunity to move forwards with the right appointment but we didn’t and it shows. 

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

I’m still a bit wary of Howe. He had a lot of financial backing at Bournemouth and I’m not sure we could offer the same.

He did a good job there and they didn’t always have money at the beginning of his appointment. We also shouldn’t underestimate the top level experience he’s got and ability to attract players.

I do wonder though if we need a more rough round the edges type at the moment - a bit like when we appointed Gary Johnson in 05’ or Cotterill in 14’. We’ve spent the last 5 years (yes, yesterday was 5 years since LJ’s appointment!) on a ‘project’ type appointment - and I think that’s what a Howe appointment would be. I think though that right now we might need a more old school ‘no nonsense’ type to drag us to a better place. I am very sceptical whether that sort of manager would work under Ashton though. Same applies to Howe.

[Lew-T]

24 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Someone who would know told me DH had no ideas of his own. I think some were impressed when in his first press conference he identified the issues we had during the end of the LJ era, however it is one thing to be able to identify a problem, and quite another to solve it.

He's had over 30 games now to show us what his problem-solving skills look like, and frankly, and unsurprisingly given his level of ability and experience, they have been found wanting. 

We are still turgid to watch. We don't create anywhere near enough chances, our midfield is non-existent, it doesn't create and it doesn't protect the defence. We look badly coached and badly organised. Players are going backwards, our star player is still our goalkeeper.

DH simply doesn't have the answers. He is, entirely predictably, an LJ continuity candidate but is delivering even worse football with arguably a slightly better squad. 

His demise is inevitable, and whether it's in 8 games time, 8 weeks, or at the end of the season, we will once again be on the hunt for a new head coach in the not too distant future. 

Another failed managerial appointment to add to the Steve Lansdown CV. 

Well our next 6 league games are:

Watford, Reading, Barnsley, M’Boro, Swansea and Bournemouth. The sort of fixtures you don’t want to go into under pressure and in bad form. The hunt for a new coach could be sooner than we think, if we’re gonna perform like that yesterday against those sides!

[Jerseybean]

Update on OP final paragraph.

DH: As I said after yesterdays game our performance was nowhere near good enough. So after tea last night I sat down with Downing and Simpson and together we watched the game back. It was quite revealing, so we watched a few other recent games too. To be honest I wish we’d done this a bit more as it really helped.

Simo noticed that we only had one shot on target yesterday and that was a free kick from about 30 yards, when we reviewed our last few games we spotted that this has repeatedly been the case. We also discovered that we even went two games without getting a corner.

Downo pointed out that we let Cardiff get the ball into our box far too often and then failed to mark their forwards - meaning they had numerous scoring opportunities (unlike us).

We then looked at our passing and realised that lots of the time we pass to the opponents rather than one of our own players. Sometimes we couldn’t find anyone to pass to so we lofted the ball up front where time after time their defenders easily won the ball and we were then defending again.

We also spotted that we spend an awful lot of time in our own half passing the ball around between ourselves, which we thought was maybe marginally better than giving it to the other team, but then we noticed that after passing backwards or sideways with the ball in our half we then (as I mentioned) either lofted it forward or passed to an opponent.

So, as I said yesterday there is lots to work on. 

 

 

[City oz]

1 minute ago, Lew-T said:

Well our next 6 league games are:

Watford, Reading, Barnsley, M’Boro, Swansea and Bournemouth. The sort of fixtures you don’t want to go into under pressure and in bad form. The hunt for a new coach could be sooner than we think, if we’re gonna perform like that yesterday against those sides!

you never know though, i would expect if we are lucky one win against Swansea and a couple of draws giving us 5 points for a solid mid table position. After all we are only a mid table side while DH is the coach 

[City oz]

3 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

Update on OP final paragraph.

DH: As I said after yesterdays game our performance was nowhere near good enough. So after tea last night I sat down with Downing and Simpson and together we watched the game back. It was quite revealing, so we watched a few other recent games too. To be honest I wish we’d done this a bit more as it really helped.

Simo noticed that we only had one shot on target yesterday and that was a free kick from about 30 yards, when we reviewed our last few games we spotted that this has repeatedly been the case. We also discovered that we even went two games without getting a corner.

Downo pointed out that we let Cardiff get the ball into our box far too often and then failed to mark their forwards - meaning they had numerous scoring opportunities (unlike us).

We then looked at our passing and realised that lots of the time we pass to the opponents rather than one of our own players. Sometimes we couldn’t find anyone to pass to so we lofted the ball up front where time after time their defenders easily won the ball and we were then defending again.

We also spotted that we spend an awful lot of time in our own half passing the ball around between ourselves, which we thought was maybe marginally better than giving it to the other team, but then we noticed that after passing backwards or sideways with the ball in our half we then (as I mentioned) either lofted it forward or passed to an opponent.

So, as I said yesterday there is lots to work on. 

 

 

The priority is get rid of Holden then the better opportunities will develop. its not hard work jersey bean its common sense. 

[Swede]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Worse than Derby, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday?

Supposing we win Wednesday night- first manager since 1974 is it, to lead us to the Quarter finals of the FA Cup.

In response; Wayne Rooney has had a very long and successful career, playing International Football, and he will benefit from the experience and knowledge he naturally would've picked up. 

Aitor Karanka is an experienced manager at this level.

I'll give you Sheff Wednesday.

 

On your second point; what if we win next Saturday (never mind next Wednesday) against Watford? We could as its eleven v eleven? Unfortunately you also have to look at the performances and this is where you can plainly see the problems with generally 1 shot on target if at all. Players do not become poor players overnight. Tactically we are so niave and unprepared. There is a pattern to this and it points to the head coach that is simply way out of his depth. It also by definition, as its being proved to be such a bad appointment, points to the recruitment team who appointed him in the first place.

[Son of Fred]

13 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Today was a ‘turning point’ apparently , whatever he means by that

 

Does anybody have any questions?

[Nogbad the Bad]

13 hours ago, JonDolman said:

As a person he really does seem like a fantastic guy and probably the most likeable city manager I can ever remember. So so desperate for him to be the one that succeeds here.

 

Terry Cooper for me followed in more recent times by Steve Cotterill.

Cotts galvanised the players, the fans, the whole club.

If the players ever underperformed he'd face the after match interview like a furious beetroot after clearly giving them both barrels in the dressing room, but calmly refusing to criticise them in public.

But it didn't happen often because the players were left in no doubt how unacceptable it was and respected the manager too much to repeat it.

What a fantastic spirit there was in that squad, all down to Cotterill.

Too big a personality for Bristol City F.C. unfortunately.

[Loosey Boy]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Someone who would know told me DH had no ideas of his own. I think some were impressed when in his first press conference he identified the issues we had during the end of the LJ era, however it is one thing to be able to identify a problem, and quite another to solve it.

He's had over 30 games now to show us what his problem-solving skills look like, and frankly, and unsurprisingly given his level of ability and experience, they have been found wanting. 

We are still turgid to watch. We don't create anywhere near enough chances, our midfield is non-existent, it doesn't create and it doesn't protect the defence. We look badly coached and badly organised. Players are going backwards, our star player is still our goalkeeper.

DH simply doesn't have the answers. He is, entirely predictably, an LJ continuity candidate but is delivering even worse football with arguably a slightly better squad. 

His demise is inevitable, and whether it's in 8 games time, 8 weeks, or at the end of the season, we will once again be on the hunt for a new head coach in the not too distant future. 

Another failed managerial appointment to add to the Steve Lansdown CV. 

How long before City replace DH do you reckon @Kid in the Riot?

[Bassomylord]

3 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

How long before City replace DH do you reckon @Kid in the Riot?

They will replace some of the backroom staff first in order to save him face....probably Pat Mountain.

[maxjak]

17 hours ago, daored said:

Pre match quote:

The Head Coach told Robins TV: “I can’t wait – this is what football is about, a local derby against your rivals in a big part of the season. It’s a big one for the supporters and the players are well aware of that. We’ll be looking to start fast, making sure we are strong in the tackle and get a tempo to our game.

“If you can’t be up for a battle with your neighbours from across the bridge then there’s something wrong.”

Theres's a spot available on the next episode of  "Live at the Apollo"......as I am certain once DH has given up football management (Clocks ticking DH) a career in Stand Up awaits.          

[steviestevieneville]

26 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

How long before City replace DH do you reckon @Kid in the Riot?

Michael Appleton it’ll be , Ashton’s mate . 

[Bazooka Joe]

17 hours ago, daored said:

Pre match quote:

The Head Coach told Robins TV: “If you can’t be up for a battle with your neighbours from across the bridge then there’s something wrong.”

Okay Holden, based on yesterday's performance, there's something clearly wrong.

So now what?

 

[Bazooka Joe]

17 hours ago, Lew-T said:

In his actual post match interview, he looked like a man who is close to being beaten.

Some awkward pauses there.

He's listening to the instructions Ashton is giving him through his earpiece.

[Bazooka Joe]

13 hours ago, CodeRed said:

Yatton girls under 7's reserves,. .... probably

Christ! Why bring up yet another team that could beat us at present?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

Update on OP final paragraph.

DH: As I said after yesterdays game our performance was nowhere near good enough. So after tea last night I sat down with Downing and Simpson and together we watched the game back. It was quite revealing, so we watched a few other recent games too. To be honest I wish we’d done this a bit more as it really helped.

Simo noticed that we only had one shot on target yesterday and that was a free kick from about 30 yards, when we reviewed our last few games we spotted that this has repeatedly been the case. We also discovered that we even went two games without getting a corner.

Downo pointed out that we let Cardiff get the ball into our box far too often and then failed to mark their forwards - meaning they had numerous scoring opportunities (unlike us).

We then looked at our passing and realised that lots of the time we pass to the opponents rather than one of our own players. Sometimes we couldn’t find anyone to pass to so we lofted the ball up front where time after time their defenders easily won the ball and we were then defending again.

We also spotted that we spend an awful lot of time in our own half passing the ball around between ourselves, which we thought was maybe marginally better than giving it to the other team, but then we noticed that after passing backwards or sideways with the ball in our half we then (as I mentioned) either lofted it forward or passed to an opponent.

So, as I said yesterday there is lots to work on. 

 

 

Simo, Downo, really?  

20 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Michael Appleton it’ll be , Ashton’s mate . 

Doing well at Lincoln but all the charisma of a turnip.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 hours ago, City oz said:

If so. And so what. 

If people consider us to be the laughing stock of the Championship, then I'd suggest they're somewhat OTT and not looking very hard.

As for the second bit, some kinda birthright is it? Fact we haven't reached the quarters of the FA Cup for nearly half a century really does say something.

We might go out in Round 5 again, see Leicester 2001 and Wolves in 2019 as examples, can't think of any others in my time (since 1998). However should we win, that'll be a notable landmark of sorts.

[shelts]

Yes but we’ve got a lovely stadium and  soon enough a state of the art training facility at Failand !!

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, Rob k said:

I think it also shows that LJ and his coaching team were doing better than we thought with the players at his disposal.

God knows where we go from here, im not in to sacking managers etc but it’s clearly not and is never going to with this coaching team. It’s also imperative that Ashton is shown the door pronto or told he no longer has anything to do with recruitment or player identification.

‘If’ i was SL I’d go all out to sell the project to Howe, his coaching team are available and i think we have players who should be performing much better. I think the job would be attractive to a number of candidates who may be interested in more than just money....time will tell
 

 

But he had just over 4 years, 8 transfer Windows too.  I think he did well initially, but as he gradually lost the core of the SOD, Cotts, Burt players he was found wanting.  He did an okay job overall, but the trend was backwards.  Together with Ashton, they recruited an expensive but unbalanced squad...that Holden has tried to work with.  He started brightly but is ultimately going backwards too.  I don’t think Holden’s situation is in any way an opportunity to reflect on LJ’s time in a better light.  Happy for you to disagree.

The legacy of the last 5 years is that we shouldn’t be in a position where fans think the squad needs tearing apart and starting again.  The forming, storming, norming and performing (Tuckman) rarely got to performing and when it did it quickly went through a phase of storming again!

The contract situations of countless players shows (sorry, bringing it back to MA) how effed we are.  The fact that fans are just saying “let them all go” is pretty damming, albeit not with true cognisance of what that leaves behind and how you replace.

[Rob k]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

But he had just over 4 years, 8 transfer Windows too.  I think he did well initially, but as he gradually lost the core of the SOD, Cotts, Burt players he was found wanting.  He did an okay job overall, but the trend was backwards.  Together with Ashton, they recruited an expensive but unbalanced squad...that Holden has tried to work with.  He started brightly but is ultimately going backwards too.  I don’t think Holden’s situation is in any way an opportunity to reflect on LJ’s time in a better light.  Happy for you to disagree.

The legacy of the last 5 years is that we shouldn’t be in a position where fans think the squad needs tearing apart and starting again.  The forming, storming, norming and performing (Tuckman) rarely got to performing and when it did it quickly went through a phase of storming again!

The contract situations of countless players shows (sorry, bringing it back to MA) how effed we are.  The fact that fans are just saying “let them all go” is pretty damming, albeit not with true cognisance of what that leaves behind and how you replace.

I think under LJ we bought in players, improved them and sold them, i can’t see that happening at the minute under the current regime so i think it’s a fair assessment. 

However for the point of this thread i think that’s a secondary point and maybe one i didn’t need to raise as Will take us off the subject which is for me is Holden up for it and i don’t think he is. I’d get rid now but ultimately i don’t think it matters who is in charge if Ashton is here and he’s the one who i ultimately think is the problem  

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I think under LJ we bought in players, improved them and sold them, i can’t see that happening at the minute under the current regime so i think it’s a fair assessment. 

However for the point of this thread i think that’s a secondary point and maybe one i didn’t need to raise as Will take us off the subject which is for me is Holden up for it and i don’t think he is. I’d get rid now but ultimately i don’t think it matters who is in charge if Ashton is here and he’s the one who i ultimately think is the problem  

 

I don’t think Dean has been the opportunity to bring in much has he? One player for a fee.  The Brunt signing will haunt him.

 

Heres LJ’s last season, thank god Bentley improved.  LJ did improve some, but there are plenty of others that didn’t improve.

I do think in hindsight the job is too big for Holden.  It needs a better quality manager.  

[Rob k]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think Dean has been the opportunity to bring in much has he? One player for a fee.  The Brunt signing will haunt him.

 

Heres LJ’s last season, thank god Bentley improved.  LJ did improve some, but there are plenty of others that didn’t improve.

I do think in hindsight the job is too big for Holden.  It needs a better quality manager.  

Who would you be looking at? Are You a fan of Howe? My thinking is that he could currently bring his whole set up with him and i think we have good enough players to work with. The project would need to be sold but it’s a huge opportunity for someone. People will say in dreamland and i accept that but these out of work managers are already financially secure and they would be given time - i only think Holden won’t as it was a mistake in the first place. I feel sorry for the bloke, i like him But he’s out his depth 

Im regards to the ones that didn’t work under LJ  we also didn’t lose much on them bar Engvall have we? My main problem with the ones we let go was that they were never given a chance at all. Out of the ones that DH has been given 2 are not good enough and one remains to be seen. 

[Lew-T]

3 hours ago, shelts said:

Yes but we’ve got a lovely stadium and  soon enough a state of the art training facility at Failand !!

All counts for sweet FA when you’ve got incompetent people in charge. Here’s Mark Ashton, Steve and Jon Lansdown driving a brand new Rolls Royce....