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1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

This Covid influenced season with our huge injury list is not a very fair backdrop to any balanced judgement of our head coach, CEO, owner, youth policy - or our club in general.  Everyone needs to calm down and see how things work out for the rest of the season and if we are actually going to be allowed to attend matches next season that will allow finances to start to be restored.  Our problems at left back gives competitors a weakness to exploit and we currently have no realistic answer.  There seems to be a curse on our left sided players - but these things will pass in time. They always do.  Patience is what we need.  Don't make Dean's job more difficult but give him wholehearted support - he needs it through this incredibly difficult passage of time.

Sorry this is way off, accept Covid and injuries have made life very difficult, but the problem is not about the last couple of games without a LB or even the losing run, its become very clear DH is out of his depth with no plan or style of playing and even less tactical know how. Change needs to be made before we end up in a fight at the bottom.

The players available should be doing much better but are starting to look drained of confidence and belief in the plan.

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44 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

We've got this structure in place so say to reduce the impact of the head coach leaving. But by doing so we have inadvertently moved the problem upwards to Ashton's role. He wont be leaving anytime soon because the whole structure of the club and our recruitment depends on him, cushty or what

The way he planned it!

Edited by Davefevs
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5 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

We did have part of a transfer window. Our training is no more restricted than anyone else's. We do have a bad injury situation, although many other teams have bad injury situations, maybe not as bad as ours though. I still don't see us beating anyone as we currently are and so many times when we have won have been victories by backs to the wall methods, even at the start of the season. We look weak, defend too deep, relying on last ditch blocks particularly by Kalas or terrific saves by DB on a regular basis. I hate to think what position we'd have been in if DB hadn't been in such great form.

I agree with all that but the fact remains that our lopsided injury list, that includes virtually all our left footed players leaves us hopelessly unbalanced. Players are playing far too much football and there is no sign that they can be rested because we do not have the players available.  Our fully fit squad would be very competitive - our hugely depleted squad much less so.

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3 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Sorry this is way off, accept Covid and injuries have made life very difficult, but the problem is not about the last couple of games without a LB or even the losing run, its become very clear DH is out of his depth with no plan or style of playing and even less tactical know how. Change needs to be made before we end up in a fight at the bottom.

The players available should be doing much better but are starting to look drained of confidence and belief in the plan.

Dean's options are dictated by the players that he has available.  He does not have the luxury of not picking out of form players because he does not currently have many to choose from - and many are kids.  Those coming back from long term injuries will need a fair bit of time to get up to speed - and we do not have the time to be too fussy. This puts those players at risk of further injury.  It must be a complete nightmare for Dean and Mark Ashton.

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7 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Sorry this is way off, accept Covid and injuries have made life very difficult, but the problem is not about the last couple of games without a LB or even the losing run, its become very clear DH is out of his depth with no plan or style of playing and even less tactical know how. Change needs to be made before we end up in a fight at the bottom.

The players available should be doing much better but are starting to look drained of confidence and belief in the plan.

They are drained because they are having to play too many games. Many are probably carrying minor injuries and have no chance of getting rested.  Teams will target our weaknesses and we have too many of those at present.  Hopefully we will come up against other teams playing scratch matchday squads and we will have sufficient resources to target their weaknesses.  Right now, midtable would look like a reasonable outcome for the season.

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Just now, Bat Fastard said:

Dean's options are dictated by the players that he has available.  He does not have the luxury of not picking out of form players because he does not currently have many to choose from - and many are kids.  Those coming back from long term injuries will need a fair bit of time to get up to speed - and we do not have the time to be too fussy. This puts those players at risk of further injury.  It must be a complete nightmare for Dean and Mark Ashton.

Don't disagree its difficult time and if it was just about losing run and could see the structure was OK when we get players back then agree, should have more time. But ATM DH looks clueless, does not know his best team or shape, randomly drops players after playing well, has no identity or system of how we play, team set up and subs that are bizarre.

Apart from a few short spells we have been dominated by every team we played and if not for Bents would have no where near the points we have.

Other teams also have injuries and playing the same number of games, but they still look organised and have half an idea of a game plan which we sadly lack.

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15 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Every other club are dealing with fatigue and a heavy congested season. 
Can you name these 12 first teamers or close to that are injured at the moment please? 
Can you explain why we’ve looked like a rabbit in headlights every game? The subs have been shocking. If Martin was fit yesterday we would of no doubt ended up with 4 strikers again yesterday. 
Or even better, how many games this season you seen that we’ve looked like we’ve deserved to win convincingly over 90 minutes? 

One final question, where did you buy these blinkers / rose tinted glasses from? 

Those I can think of are: Dasilva (L), Baker (L), Martin, Walsh, O'Dowda (L) Weimann, Pring (L), Nurse (L), Rowe (L), Adelukan,  - and we have the likes of Williams and Sessegnon on the brink of coming back into contention whilst winning back their match fitness.  Looking at the official team photos, Morton is on loan and three or four of the other squad members are very young and inexperienced - although they may well grow into excellent players in years to come, could they be expected to cover at left back?  Can you come up with and instant fix??

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1 minute ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Don't disagree its difficult time and if it was just about losing run and could see the structure was OK when we get players back then agree, should have more time. But ATM DH looks clueless, does not know his best team or shape, randomly drops players after playing well, has no identity or system of how we play, team set up and subs that are bizarre.

Apart from a few short spells we have been dominated by every team we played and if not for Bents would have no where near the points we have.

Other teams also have injuries and playing the same number of games, but they still look organised and have half an idea of a game plan which we sadly lack.

I agree about the odd selections and substitutions although I would put this down to Dean shuffling his much reduced pack and trying to manage fatigue, minor knocks and crushing the spirits of very young players and those returning from injury, who will struggle to give their best form of they are knackered and dispirited.  We will see some very young players blooded before this season is over and i just hope that they do not have the stuffing knocked out of them by the seasoned professionals in this very difficult league.  Things may get worse before they get better. There is the possibility of the odd win, but probably not as many as we would normally expect,

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38 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Those I can think of are: Dasilva (L), Baker (L), Martin, Walsh, O'Dowda (L) Weimann, Pring (L), Nurse (L), Rowe (L), Adelukan,  - and we have the likes of Williams and Sessegnon on the brink of coming back into contention whilst winning back their match fitness.  Looking at the official team photos, Morton is on loan and three or four of the other squad members are very young and inexperienced - although they may well grow into excellent players in years to come, could they be expected to cover at left back?  Can you come up with and instant fix??

Dasilva  and Weinmann I will give you. 
Baker plays in a position we have cover in Kalas and Mawson who I can’t see getting in. 
Martin in in competition with Diedhiou and Wells. When he plays it forces Wells out on the wing and Diedhiou has a better goal return. 
O’Dowda was lucky enough to be playing when we was in serious trouble with injuries and played well for 45 minutes v QPR.  
Rowe has only been injured for one and a bit games. The rest were all out on loan and returned due to Dasilva. 
So in theory that is not 12 players. Granted the injuries are left sided but we knew about these during January when we could of got a left back in. I’m sure a prem club had some we could of got. Especially after you’ve named players that we loaned out in your 12 first teamers. 
What about the other question as in how many games have you seen where we’ve won convincingly and dominated for 90 minutes? 

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13 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Dasilva  and Weinmann I will give you. 
Baker plays in a position we have cover in Kalas and Mawson who I can’t see getting in. 
Martin in in competition with Diedhiou and Wells. When he plays it forces Wells out on the wing and Diedhiou has a better goal return. 
O’Dowda was lucky enough to be playing when we was in serious trouble with injuries and played well for 45 minutes v QPR.  
Rowe has only been injured for one and a bit games. The rest were all out on loan and returned due to Dasilva. 
So in theory that is not 12 players. Granted the injuries are left sided but we knew about these during January when we could of got a left back in. I’m sure a prem club had some we could of got. Especially after you’ve named players that we loaned out in your 12 first teamers. 
What about the other question as in how many games have you seen where we’ve won convincingly and dominated for 90 minutes? 

Of course you could ad that the squad has suffered injuries to Hunt, Mawson, Paterson, Kalas and Bakinson in addition.  This all leaves little room for any players carrying knocks or suffering with lack of form. None of this is ideal in a covid shaped season where we have to play as many as ten games a month.  No rest, little recovery and a great deal of fatigue.  We have had the loss of maybe 5 players who could play at left back or left wing back - how many squads could cope with this loss?

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44 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Of course you could ad that the squad has suffered injuries to Hunt, Mawson, Paterson, Kalas and Bakinson in addition.  This all leaves little room for any players carrying knocks or suffering with lack of form. None of this is ideal in a covid shaped season where we have to play as many as ten games a month.  No rest, little recovery and a great deal of fatigue.  We have had the loss of maybe 5 players who could play at left back or left wing back - how many squads could cope with this loss?

Have you studied all the other clubs injuries? I haven’t but it would not surprise me if they’ve also got injuries list. 
And you’re still advoiding the question regarding our performance on how many games have you seen where we’ve dominated for 90 minutes.  

 

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Just now, RedorDead BCFC said:

Have you studied all the other clubs injuries? I haven’t but it would not surprise me if they’ve also got injuries list. 
And you’re still advoiding the question regarding our performance on how many games have you seen where we’ve dominated for 90 minutes.  

 

I agree about the performances but think this might have more to do with available players than lack of managerial ability.  We looked weak against Cardiff and frequently look off the pace against other teams.  Maybe if we had some of the injured players back and fit, it might be very different.

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3 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Have you studied all the other clubs injuries? I haven’t but it would not surprise me if they’ve also got injuries list. 
And you’re still advoiding the question regarding our performance on how many games have you seen where we’ve dominated for 90 minutes.  

 

Forget dominated for 90, how many gave even dominated for 45, the answer is probable the same

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4 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I agree about the performances but think this might have more to do with available players than lack of managerial ability.  We looked weak against Cardiff and frequently look off the pace against other teams.  Maybe if we had some of the injured players back and fit, it might be very different.

So out of the starting line up yesterday. Apart from LB who else would you have started with? 
Because yesterday the team looked confused and didn’t really know what system we were playing. 

Edited by RedorDead BCFC
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4 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

I empathise, and would be delighted for mark ashton to walk away immediately, but the fact that hes appointing lansdowns mate tells the story. Hes paid a fortune to do what hes told by the owner.

if lansdown had said get eddie howe at any cost, then there’s a pretty good chance that would have happened.

Would Howe's wishlist have been in accordance with a) The financial reality of the Covid situation and b) Our FFP position?

My guess is that one or both would be, would have been no. These aspects cannot be wished away.

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1 minute ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

So out of the starting line up yesterday. Apart from LB who else would you have started with? 

O'Dowda and Weimann would have added to the pace of Dasilva and a fully fit pairing of Williams and Walsh may have added skill and top class passing that would give us the potential to unlock defences.  Baker on the left of a back three would give strength and aerial domination against teams like Cardiff and give Mawson the opportunity to be more influential with forays from the back.  Other than that, if the squad could be rotated so that the key players are not so knackered, it may well help.  I may be wrong, but I do not think that Cardiff had a midweek match this week.  If they did - they had an extra day of rest.

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8 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Get rid of em all bad eggs 

If things were done properly, Ashton’s role would depend on the success of Holden. He took the gamble appointing him - it looks like it’s not going to work out. If Holden goes - Ashton should go too.

Somehow I can’t see that happening though..

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14 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I agree with all that but the fact remains that our lopsided injury list, that includes virtually all our left footed players leaves us hopelessly unbalanced. Players are playing far too much football and there is no sign that they can be rested because we do not have the players available.  Our fully fit squad would be very competitive - our hugely depleted squad much less so.

Every team in this league has to play roughly the same amount of games albeit some going further in Cup games, they are under the same strain as us and yet we can't go a couple of weeks without fresh injuries... 

There is an issue either with training causing these injuries or with the players we're signing being injury prone. The bottom line is that we don't have any handicap against us that all 23 other clubs don't have that isn't caused by how the club is being run. 

The truth of the matter is that players alone don't win matches, tactical plans and the ability to get said team playing them effectively does. Our biggest issue under LJ was not creating enough chances and him being unable to change that, we've got rid of him and Holden has us creating even less. I'm 40 this year and I can't remember the last time I've seen us look so lacklustre going forward. If Diedhiou goes we're in serious trouble because despite having some great attacking talents Holden isn't able to get the best out of our strikers. Wells should be scoring for fun but we don't play to his strengths at all, I can genuinely see him leaving us and scoring for fun if a team sign him that wants to play to his strength. 

I do agree with you that if our squad was fully fit they could be competitive but I don't see it under Holden, he's just not using players to their strengths, he's making awful decisions such as bringing in Williams and Lansbury in the same game when neither are match fit against a physical team who also happen to be our rivals! Holden is much like LJ, he likes to experiment too much rather than setting out a plan and sticking to it to create some consistency. 

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If things were done properly, Ashton’s role would depend on the success of Holden. He took the gamble appointing him - it looks like it’s not going to work out. If Holden goes - Ashton should go too.

Somehow I can’t see that happening though..

No lansdown  is stubborn he wont let the fans t him what to do however reading some peoples views long standing fans that wont be renewing should cause concern.

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If things were done properly, Ashton’s role would depend on the success of Holden. He took the gamble appointing him - it looks like it’s not going to work out. If Holden goes - Ashton should go too.

Somehow I can’t see that happening though..

No Lansdown is stubborn hes not gonna let fans tell him what to do but reading views on here fans not enjoying the football and wont be renewing he needs to listen .

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3 minutes ago, Spike said:

Every team in this league has to play roughly the same amount of games albeit some going further in Cup games, they are under the same strain as us and yet we can't go a couple of weeks without fresh injuries... 

There is an issue either with training causing these injuries or with the players we're signing being injury prone. The bottom line is that we don't have any handicap against us that all 23 other clubs don't have that isn't caused by how the club is being run. 

The truth of the matter is that players alone don't win matches, tactical plans and the ability to get said team playing them effectively does. Our biggest issue under LJ was not creating enough chances and him being unable to change that, we've got rid of him and Holden has us creating even less. I'm 40 this year and I can't remember the last time I've seen us look so lacklustre going forward. If Diedhiou goes we're in serious trouble because despite having some great attacking talents Holden isn't able to get the best out of our strikers. Wells should be scoring for fun but we don't play to his strengths at all, I can genuinely see him leaving us and scoring for fun if a team sign him that wants to play to his strength. 

I do agree with you that if our squad was fully fit they could be competitive but I don't see it under Holden, he's just not using players to their strengths, he's making awful decisions such as bringing in Williams and Lansbury in the same game when neither are match fit against a physical team who also happen to be our rivals! Holden is much like LJ, he likes to experiment too much rather than setting out a plan and sticking to it to create some consistency. 

On paper all teams have the potential to be equal. In reality some have parachute payments, some have defensive problems and other have attacking and midfield issues. Our huge injury list does not allow Dean to play a balanced team on the field and in order to change play and rest players he has to make decisions that he would not normally make if he had a fully fit squad to choose from.  If a club lose all its goalkeepers, it is allowed to make forays into the market to remedy the situation - maybe they should allow the same for left sided defenders?

It remains to be seen if our problems are simply bad luck or if there is a problem with training or fitness conditioning, but the problems facing Dean are pretty stark and I cannot see any rapid way to improve the situation.  Maybe as Williams, Pato and Henri get fitter and start to gel - or maybe George Nurse becomes available.  It is a big ask to expect a very young player to change the tide though.

 

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If things were done properly, Ashton’s role would depend on the success of Holden. He took the gamble appointing him - it looks like it’s not going to work out. If Holden goes - Ashton should go too.

Somehow I can’t see that happening though..

I think it would be interesting to do a bit of maths for Mr Ashton and Mr Lansdown. If you take the average family with average income and average mortgage etc and calculate their disposable income. (whats left over when they have paid all the bills) and compare that to the cost of a season ticket as a %. Do the reverse maths and calculate with the same % of disposable income for SL and MA. Perhaps then they would appreciate what many people go without to but a season ticket and stop taking them for granted.

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1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

On paper all teams have the potential to be equal. In reality some have parachute payments, some have defensive problems and other have attacking and midfield issues. Our huge injury list does not allow Dean to play a balanced team on the field and in order to change play and rest players he has to make decisions that he would not normally make if he had a fully fit squad to choose from.  If a club lose all its goalkeepers, it is allowed to make forays into the market to remedy the situation - maybe they should allow the same for left sided defenders?

It remains to be seen if our problems are simply bad luck or if there is a problem with training or fitness conditioning, but the problems facing Dean are pretty stark and I cannot see any rapid way to improve the situation.  Maybe as Williams, Pato and Henri get fitter and start to gel - or maybe George Nurse becomes available.  It is a big ask to expect a very young player to change the tide though.

 

Yes teams have parachute payments etc but the fact is that we've not settled in any formation, regardless of injuries we're still not showing any signs of being tactically competent.
Against Cardiff, we started two midfielders who are wildly lacking match sharpness and fitness, Cardiff are physically strong and like to bully their opponents and instead of addressing that he essentially picked the following midfield:

Williams - Just come back from a serious injury, not played nearly enough with his teammates to have any fluidity with them
Lansbury - Signed such a short time ago that has the same issues as Williams in fluidity with the team and has very little game time at all
Massengo - Been largely lacking until recently but needs players to rely on behind him in order to get the best out of him.

Massengo was never going to be allowed to do what he does best with two midfielders who haven't played together and are both lacking match fitness. Say what you like about Holden but no experienced manager is starting with those 3 along with having Wells (a central attacking striker who needs supply) on the wing.
You look at that team that started and there is no surprise that McCarthy targeted our left side

Mariappa - Not a left back at all, was never going to be able to hold that left side
Lansbury - No match fitness, no match sharpness, new to the squad
Semenyo - hardly going to cover for the other weak players behind him.

Holden got everything wrong and still persists on playing players out of position even when he has better options.

Bakinson is hungry, he has a few issues but he's played with Massengo, he's played in this squad, and he's composed, he's instantly a better option in such a tough match, Flint we know all so well, and although he's strong in the air and can carry the ball he struggles against aggressive strikers who like to attack low passes, so essentially he struggles against players such as Nhaki Wells. We should have has Diedhiou and Wells up front, put Wells in to cause issues for Flint, have Diedhiou in for his physicality to cause problems too, instead we put Wells out wide where he's got to beat two big center backs to be able to get a shot off and where he can be doubled up against by Bennett and Nelson with Ralls as back up cover for any kind of overlap if necessary.

This is my issue, we have the players, we have strengths even with the injuries, but Holden is inexperienced with using players to their strengths, something most high profile managers all have in their resume, hence they continue to get jobs at Championship level.

In regard to the injuries, we should not be getting as many injuries as we are, there is something wrong in that situation and that comes down to something within the club. If we had a few injuries, fair enough, that happens, if we had six or seven, maybe that's bad luck, but at one point we could field an entire starting 11 of injuries! That' has to be down to either training too much with so many games or the medical staff are not doing a good enough job with recovery. I don't accept that level of injuries without there being a reason behind it.

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37 minutes ago, Spike said:

Yes teams have parachute payments etc but the fact is that we've not settled in any formation, regardless of injuries we're still not showing any signs of being tactically competent.
Against Cardiff, we started two midfielders who are wildly lacking match sharpness and fitness, Cardiff are physically strong and like to bully their opponents and instead of addressing that he essentially picked the following midfield:

Williams - Just come back from a serious injury, not played nearly enough with his teammates to have any fluidity with them
Lansbury - Signed such a short time ago that has the same issues as Williams in fluidity with the team and has very little game time at all
Massengo - Been largely lacking until recently but needs players to rely on behind him in order to get the best out of him.

Massengo was never going to be allowed to do what he does best with two midfielders who haven't played together and are both lacking match fitness. Say what you like about Holden but no experienced manager is starting with those 3 along with having Wells (a central attacking striker who needs supply) on the wing.
You look at that team that started and there is no surprise that McCarthy targeted our left side

Mariappa - Not a left back at all, was never going to be able to hold that left side
Lansbury - No match fitness, no match sharpness, new to the squad
Semenyo - hardly going to cover for the other weak players behind him.

Holden got everything wrong and still persists on playing players out of position even when he has better options.

Bakinson is hungry, he has a few issues but he's played with Massengo, he's played in this squad, and he's composed, he's instantly a better option in such a tough match, Flint we know all so well, and although he's strong in the air and can carry the ball he struggles against aggressive strikers who like to attack low passes, so essentially he struggles against players such as Nhaki Wells. We should have has Diedhiou and Wells up front, put Wells in to cause issues for Flint, have Diedhiou in for his physicality to cause problems too, instead we put Wells out wide where he's got to beat two big center backs to be able to get a shot off and where he can be doubled up against by Bennett and Nelson with Ralls as back up cover for any kind of overlap if necessary.

This is my issue, we have the players, we have strengths even with the injuries, but Holden is inexperienced with using players to their strengths, something most high profile managers all have in their resume, hence they continue to get jobs at Championship level.

In regard to the injuries, we should not be getting as many injuries as we are, there is something wrong in that situation and that comes down to something within the club. If we had a few injuries, fair enough, that happens, if we had six or seven, maybe that's bad luck, but at one point we could field an entire starting 11 of injuries! That' has to be down to either training too much with so many games or the medical staff are not doing a good enough job with recovery. I don't accept that level of injuries without there being a reason behind it.

I agree with much of this - but the problem remains that key players are very tired and returning players have to get minutes in order to regain match fitness.  All this has to be performed with a residual squad that lacks left footed players and traditional strong players. We look weak and do not currently have the player resources to compete in every match.  If players like Bakinson, who is very promising, are overplayed - then there is a risk to their progress.  Tired players carrying knocks are more likely to get injuries, as we recently saw with Rowe. Pace and strength are not available in sufficient measure right now.

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