Do We Underplay Our Power?

[handsofclay]

For the most part the story of Bristol City these past twenty plus years since SL's involvement has been 'where would we be without him? Aren't we fortunate.'

I recall twenty plus years ago being a fan and shareholder who felt part of the club. We had not early gone through the hoop in 1982, been bottom of the basement division for a short while a little later but within four years were playing and winning in our first Wembley final and by 1990 were back in the second tier and finishing in a creditable position in 1991 only bettered once in the thirty years since then. Thus from bottom of the pile to the high echelons of what is now the championship and two Wembley finals had been achieved in less than 9 years. We, the supporters of the club, deserve a great deal of credit for that. We turned up in the fourth division in numbers and gave our backing. With our numbers behind us we achieved things. We also felt like the club was ours and together we owned our stadium and felt like ultimately we could call the directors to task. There was no one supporter who thought he knew best and if things were done his way we would succeed though his way was skewered and wasn't the model for any other club.

I suppose what I am trying to convey is would we really be worse off had Steve Lansdown not taken over here? It's automatically assumed we would be a mid-table third tier side at most playing in an antiquated stadium. Really? I haven't access to a crystal ball but maybe, just maybe, we might have experienced premier league football this century as managers were appointed instead of head coaches tasked with participating in the running of this club in the manner Mr Lansdown wants. Managers with football nous not head coaches effectively controlled by the man at the top with a fantastic knowledge of finance and business models but a crap comprehension of what it takes to mould a team that will take to the field with a winning mentality. 

Surely too, with the fan base we have (nothing whatsoever to do with Steve Lansdown) we would have improved OUR stadium too. Maybe it might by now have involved foreign backers, but one rarely hears the media, or supporters of the Manchester clubs, or various championship clubs who have tasted promotion to the premier league complain about this. I'm pretty sure I have never heard a Leicester City fan wish he/she was still in the championship under the ownership of a local businessman made good like the lucky  Bristol City fans experience.

I don't wish to denigrate Steve Lansdown as he has put his money into the club (although not when it comes to appointing the most important role in the club that of manager). His heart is in the right place and he feels that he is doing the best for everyone by being a benevolent dictator. However, I truly believe he has done so by disenfranchising the supporters. We have to go along with his model for the club and doff our caps and be truly grateful. We deserve a voice too, Steve. You have taken the club from us. It's only your view that counts. Yet we are supporters too. Your ideas are not working. They have rarely worked in football and are unlikely to. Treat us with respect too. Why on earth were the likes of Cook and Hughton interviewed for the post when you, the great businessman, knew full well they would never work as your lapdog unable to 'manage' this football club. I fear it was simply a cosmetic exercise to placate the fans.

Mr Lansdown if someone treated you like a mug they'd be out on their ear. Please don't treat us with disrespect. In future when you make a head coach appointment just inform us of the candidates who are prepared to play the role you have scripted for them. It will be a very uninspiring list but at least we will know where we stand. Then we, as supporters of this proud football club, might actually think that if it comes to it we will be better off forming our own club and starting at the bottom of the pyramid then passing yours on the way up.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Well a very intersting read. 

I too can rember 82 and following the team in the bottom tier. And did enjoy watching our subsequent success since those dark days. And yes we now have SL at the helm with his ideology of the club and how it is run. And I do worry that Bristol Sport now own and control Bristol City fc and the club has lost its own identity. 

But what is the alternative.

We as fans and supporters can only hope our best interests are important to SL which I think they proberly are. But only if we agree with SL's vision. 

Things have been and could be a lot worse. We are 10th in the Championship. With a lot of players hopefully on the way back from injury. 

 

[Robin Wood]

5 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Well a very intersting read. 

I too can rember 82 and following the team in the bottom tier. And did enjoy watching our subsequent success since those dark days. And yes we now have SL at the helm with his ideology of the club and how it is run. And I do worry that Bristol Sport now own and control Bristol City fc and the club has lost its own identity. 

But what is the alternative.

We as fans and supporters can only hope our best interests are important to SL which I think they proberly are. But only if we agree with SL's vision. 

Things have been and could be a lot worse. We are 10th in the Championship. With a lot of players hopefully on the way back from injury. 

 

Let's be fair the rugby side of Bristol sport franchise are now the top dogs and rightly so they have a top class manager/coach whereas Bristol City football club produce inept performance game after game due to the appointment of the cheap option 

[Lrrr]

The simple answer is its entirely dependant no who'd have been the alternative to Lansdown, would they have been willing to stick their hand in their pocket so much, you say we'd have redeveloped the stadium, no guarantee, again depends on who the alternative would have been, would we have a new training ground? Perhaps not, perhaps we'd have someone who'd have bought a different site with a much bigger area allowing for a £30m complex. Frankly its impossible to say, we could have ended up with someone with no intent on funding the club beyond the base amount, could have had another billionaire, could have had a foreign owner whose a basket case. All we can do is judge the situation we are in.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

3 minutes ago, Robin Wood said:

Let's be fair the rugby side of Bristol sport franchise are now the top dogs and rightly so they have a top class manager/coach whereas Bristol City football club produce inept performance game after game due to the appointment of the cheap option 

But within Rugby finance levels SL's budget allows the top players and coach's to be signed. 

Which is not the case by a long way in the finances of football 

[Lrrr]

3 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

But within Rugby finance levels SL's budget allows the top players and coach's to be signed. 

Which is not the case by a long way in the finances of football 

Football wages are about 6 times higher then that of rugby which indicates why. The losses Steve writes off for FFP each season is a good 30% higher than the rugby wage bill

[Robin Wood]

Just now, Rocking Red Cyril said:

But within Rugby finance levels SL's budget allows the top players and coach's to be signed. 

Which is not the case by a long way in the finances of football 

Not talking about the players I am talking about the last failing managers assistant now becoming the new failure we should be trying to appoint the best manager for the football side as possible which to be fair its Steve's club and if the fans don't like it tuff shat that's what he tells us

[spudski]

For all the moaning...they hold the Trump card.

The only way they will take notice, is if fans stop paying for season tickets and going to games.

We are customers...nothing more, nothing less these days.

Clubs are in a win, win situation. So many fans pay up regardless. It's in the blood for many. We go because it's a ritual. Many have said they don't go for the football...but for meeting up with mates and going through the same rituals each week.

Forums are also great for clubs...people rant on forums, get it out of their systems then are less vociferous when at the ground.

The only way they will take notice is if it hits the pocket.

In a world where everything is negative, we look for joy and entertainment. Give us something to be proud of regardless of result. 

It's dire to watch, depressing, cloaked in bullshit words from the club. 

Its not about winning anymore...many fans are losing the love for it. 

I'd rather we heard that we are going to blood as many academy products as we can, without Prem talk, know where we stand and get behind that. Not...we want Prem and expect it, and then employ people out of their depth to provide it.

That's why so many are frustrated.

[steveybadger]

24 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Well a very intersting read. 

I too can rember 82 and following the team in the bottom tier. And did enjoy watching our subsequent success since those dark days. And yes we now have SL at the helm with his ideology of the club and how it is run. And I do worry that Bristol Sport now own and control Bristol City fc and the club has lost its own identity. 

But what is the alternative.

We as fans and supporters can only hope our best interests are important to SL which I think they proberly are. But only if we agree with SL's vision. 

Things have been and could be a lot worse. We are 10th in the Championship. With a lot of players hopefully on the way back from injury. 

 

Re Steve’s vision, yes. I think it’s naive to think that A.N. Other owner also wouldn’t run the club the way they wish, with only limited regard to fans’ views. We might get somebody who throws cash at the club or we might not, but at least with SL we know his intentions are benevolent. To summarise, we can criticise his decision making but (I think) not his intentions.

[handsofclay]

14 minutes ago, spudski said:

For all the moaning...they hold the Trump card.

The only way they will take notice, is if fans stop paying for season tickets and going to games.

We are customers...nothing more, nothing less these days.

Clubs are in a win, win situation. So many fans pay up regardless. It's in the blood for many. We go because it's a ritual. Many have said they don't go for the football...but for meeting up with mates and going through the same rituals each week.

Forums are also great for clubs...people rant on forums, get it out of their systems then are less vociferous when at the ground.

The only way they will take notice is if it hits the pocket.

In a world where everything is negative, we look for joy and entertainment. Give us something to be proud of regardless of result. 

It's dire to watch, depressing, cloaked in bullshit words from the club. 

Its not about winning anymore...many fans are losing the love for it. 

I'd rather we heard that we are going to blood as many academy products as we can, without Prem talk, know where we stand and get behind that. Not...we want Prem and expect it, and then employ people out of their depth to provide it.

That's why so many are frustrated.

You have put it far better than my original post. As you state, if SL and MA stated that we would be mainly relying on Academy products for the first team and employed a head coach who totally bought into that, I could get my head around it and back it. It's the subterfuge that grates. As I stated in my OP surely they had no intention whatsoever of employing the likes of Cook or Hughton. It was an exercise in placating the fan base.

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

For all the moaning...they hold the Trump card.

The only way they will take notice, is if fans stop paying for season tickets and going to games.

We are customers...nothing more, nothing less these days.

Clubs are in a win, win situation. So many fans pay up regardless. It's in the blood for many. We go because it's a ritual. Many have said they don't go for the football...but for meeting up with mates and going through the same rituals each week.

Forums are also great for clubs...people rant on forums, get it out of their systems then are less vociferous when at the ground.

The only way they will take notice is if it hits the pocket.

In a world where everything is negative, we look for joy and entertainment. Give us something to be proud of regardless of result. 

It's dire to watch, depressing, cloaked in bullshit words from the club. 

Its not about winning anymore...many fans are losing the love for it. 

I'd rather we heard that we are going to blood as many academy products as we can, without Prem talk, know where we stand and get behind that. Not...we want Prem and expect it, and then employ people out of their depth to provide it.

That's why so many are frustrated.

We’ve always been paying customers - it’s never been any different and you’re absolutely right in that the only thing that will make the club take notice of us is if we withdrawal our support and that hits the clubs pocket.

However the club know that the majority of us will continue to support the club come what may and so will continue to take our support for granted - I’m pretty sure the same thing happens at plenty of other clubs.

[Mendip City]

Loved the original post. Thank you. I was there in 1982 and enjoyed it far more. We were a club, I was a shareholder. It wasn’t all about business. 
 

in 30+ years we’ve hovered between tier 2 and 3. That’s dull. 
 

in a funny way it doesn’t have to be all about success. In the time we’ve carefully stood still many teams have been on roller coaster journeys because sport is about taking chances, being willing to gamble on winning. Not fearing losing. 
 

Take Pompey. In those 30 years, all 4 divisions, nearly went to the wall. Plenty of premier league time, big name players, cup finals. And they’re still around. The fans are still there in an average stadium. 
 

For all SL’s investment. I’m still sat in the same Dolman stand. Watching the same level of football (but as un-entertaining as I can remember). The bogs are a bit better I suppose. 
 

I just wish someone would focus on the first team, roll the dice and go for it. 
 

Got a feeling this is as good as it’ll get under Bristol Sport. We might need new ownership and to leave the rugby stadium to gain tangible success and enjoyment. 

[MATT BCFC]

 

40 minutes ago, spudski said:

For all the moaning...they hold the Trump card.

The only way they will take notice, is if fans stop paying for season tickets and going to games.

We are customers...nothing more, nothing less these days.

Clubs are in a win, win situation. So many fans pay up regardless. It's in the blood for many. We go because it's a ritual. Many have said they don't go for the football...but for meeting up with mates and going through the same rituals each week.

Forums are also great for clubs...people rant on forums, get it out of their systems then are less vociferous when at the ground.

The only way they will take notice is if it hits the pocket.

In a world where everything is negative, we look for joy and entertainment. Give us something to be proud of regardless of result. 

It's dire to watch, depressing, cloaked in bullshit words from the club. 

Its not about winning anymore...many fans are losing the love for it. 

I'd rather we heard that we are going to blood as many academy products as we can, without Prem talk, know where we stand and get behind that. Not...we want Prem and expect it, and then employ people out of their depth to provide it.

That's why so many are frustrated.

I wonder in the current situation if our fans will actually stop paying to watch games. 

Normally I would happily pay to watch city no matter how crap we are or what league we are in but a lot of that I think is due to the match day experience. 

Now the match day experience has gone and I can watch a premier league game at the same time instead for free I just can't justify paying 10 pound to put myself in a bad mood to be honest. 

 

[handsofclay]

14 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Loved the original post. Thank you. I was there in 1982 and enjoyed it far more. We were a club, I was a shareholder. It wasn’t all about business. 
 

in 30+ years we’ve hovered between tier 2 and 3. That’s dull. 
 

in a funny way it doesn’t have to be all about success. In the time we’ve carefully stood still many teams have been on roller coaster journeys because sport is about taking chances, being willing to gamble on winning. Not fearing losing. 
 

Take Pompey. In those 30 years, all 4 divisions, nearly went to the wall. Plenty of premier league time, big name players, cup finals. And they’re still around. The fans are still there in an average stadium. 
 

For all SL’s investment. I’m still sat in the same Dolman stand. Watching the same level of football (but as un-entertaining as I can remember). The bogs are a bit better I suppose. 
 

I just wish someone would focus on the first team, roll the dice and go for it. 
 

Got a feeling this is as good as it’ll get under Bristol Sport. We might need new ownership and to leave the rugby stadium to gain tangible success and enjoyment. 

Brilliant Mendip City, quite agree. You state about Pompey that's a brilliant example. Something I have learned since 1982 when we nearly folded is that even if a club does fold if the fan base is there, and it is in abundance at Bristol City, it effectively means the club can reform and rise again due to its roll of loyal customers. I guess that's what I meant by us as fans underplaying our power. Too many make it seem that without Mr Lansdown we would be nothing. I am grateful for what he has done, but I don't buy into that argument. As when a product has 20-30,000 plus loyal subscribers it will never be nothing and chances are in the past twenty years we could well have achieved more on the pitch than we actually have.

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

15 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Loved the original post. Thank you. I was there in 1982 and enjoyed it far more. We were a club, I was a shareholder. It wasn’t all about business. 
 

in 30+ years we’ve hovered between tier 2 and 3. That’s dull. 
 

in a funny way it doesn’t have to be all about success. In the time we’ve carefully stood still many teams have been on roller coaster journeys because sport is about taking chances, being willing to gamble on winning. Not fearing losing. 
 

Take Pompey. In those 30 years, all 4 divisions, nearly went to the wall. Plenty of premier league time, big name players, cup finals. And they’re still around. The fans are still there in an average stadium. 
 

For all SL’s investment. I’m still sat in the same Dolman stand. Watching the same level of football (but as un-entertaining as I can remember). The bogs are a bit better I suppose. 
 

I just wish someone would focus on the first team, roll the dice and go for it. 
 

Got a feeling this is as good as it’ll get under Bristol Sport. We might need new ownership and to leave the rugby stadium to gain tangible success and enjoyment. 

Yes I agree I was felt I was much happier watching us in divs 3 and 4.

Abd bogs really had to get better 

But I feel in modern days society it is seen as not to be good to be a loser the pressure to be a winner is big. And that goes into football 

 Therefore less risks taken. In the board room or on the pitch 

Therefore we get what we have 

[Sheltons Army]

8 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

Brilliant Mendip City, quite agree. You state about Pompey that's a brilliant example. Something I have learned since 1982 when we nearly folded is that even if a club does fold if the fan base is there, and it is in abundance at Bristol City, it effectively means the club can reform and rise again due to its roll of loyal customers. I guess that's what I meant by us as fans underplaying our power. Too many make it seem that without Mr Lansdown we would be nothing. I am grateful for what he has done, but I don't buy into that argument. As when a product has 20-30,000 plus loyal subscribers it will never be nothing and chances are in the past twenty years we could well have achieved more on the pitch than we actually have.

 

I think a lot of us on here are of a similar age group and watched 70s through , and some from even further back

For me it’s the intense frustration at the missed opportunities.

Through the 80s , 90s we dreamed of having a Board or owner with the money to push us on

We have , and have had for some time - an owner who without question has backed us in hard £ notes.

But still we fumble and stumble whilst sides push past us

Wrve only had real momentum a few times in my lifetime and I can’t help look particularly at SCs departure - leaving a talented slim squad that needed further nurturing , the odd tweak and addition with the luxury of not having to clear out lots of dead wood and a free hand to build on it 

As it stands , in all my years it’s been the period of missed opportunities 

I think that’s where a lot of the disillusion and frustration comes from l, it does for me.

 

[REDOXO]

I always laugh at the 82 nostalgia. I hated every god damn bit of it. A hopeless board with no clue put us on a precipice. 
 

A lot of people paid a high price. Yeah there were promotions and countless punch ips to look back on, but the only manager that was any good in the ensuing years was Steve (blessings be upon him) Cotterill. 
 

according to many IKTers that situation fell into a a fight over resources that LJ got an abundance of. 

[Bassomylord]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

For all the moaning...they hold the Trump card.

The only way they will take notice, is if fans stop paying for season tickets and going to games.

We are customers...nothing more, nothing less these days.

Clubs are in a win, win situation. So many fans pay up regardless. It's in the blood for many. We go because it's a ritual. Many have said they don't go for the football...but for meeting up with mates and going through the same rituals each week.

Forums are also great for clubs...people rant on forums, get it out of their systems then are less vociferous when at the ground.

The only way they will take notice is if it hits the pocket.

In a world where everything is negative, we look for joy and entertainment. Give us something to be proud of regardless of result. 

It's dire to watch, depressing, cloaked in bullshit words from the club. 

Its not about winning anymore...many fans are losing the love for it. 

I'd rather we heard that we are going to blood as many academy products as we can, without Prem talk, know where we stand and get behind that. Not...we want Prem and expect it, and then employ people out of their depth to provide it.

That's why so many are frustrated.

Why would anyone pay for a season ticket at the moment there is no sense of enjoyment in any shape or form.

[Davefevs]

@handsofclay with you on this one.

For all the “we are lucky to have a great owner” there’s a view from me that says (and ironic today) so what if we had a loon of an owner but tasted some success.

I think we have a “nice, safe owner”.  Great.

But I was reading a Benham article earlier in the week (Brentford) who was a man from Finance background, but who moved into gambling.  Did that gambling background allow him to take a risk?  I dunno, but your post prompted my thinking.

I do agree, that despite having a lovely ground, it might well have been possible to be successful a different way.  Just like there is no one-single way to play football, there is no one-single owner model either.

But I’ve never felt as distant from the club as I do now.  I’m sure that is both Covid related and recent results related.  But maybe not.

[Bassomylord]

Just now, Davefevs said:

@handsofclay with you on this one.

For all the “we are lucky to have a great owner” there’s a view from me that says (and ironic today) so what if we had a loon of an owner but tasted some success.

I think we have a “nice, safe owner”.  Great.

But I was reading a Benham article earlier in the week (Brentford) who was a man from Finance background, but who moved into gambling.  Did that gambling background allow him to take a risk?  I dunno, but your post prompted my thinking.

I do agree, that despite having a lovely ground, it might well have been possible to be successful a different way.  Just like there is no one-single way to play football, there is no one-single owner model either.

But I’ve never felt as distant from the club as I do now.  I’m sure that is both Covid related and recent results related.  But maybe not.

Same largely down to the fact we are now customers treated with contempt. 

[Robin-hugh-blind]

1 hour ago, handsofclay said:

For the most part the story of Bristol City these past twenty plus years since SL's involvement has been 'where would we be without him? Aren't we fortunate.'

I recall twenty plus years ago being a fan and shareholder who felt part of the club. We had not early gone through the hoop in 1982, been bottom of the basement division for a short while a little later but within four years were playing and winning in our first Wembley final and by 1990 were back in the second tier and finishing in a creditable position in 1991 only bettered once in the thirty years since then. Thus from bottom of the pile to the high echelons of what is now the championship and two Wembley finals had been achieved in less than 9 years. We, the supporters of the club, deserve a great deal of credit for that. We turned up in the fourth division in numbers and gave our backing. With our numbers behind us we achieved things. We also felt like the club was ours and together we owned our stadium and felt like ultimately we could call the directors to task. There was no one supporter who thought he knew best and if things were done his way we would succeed though his way was skewered and wasn't the model for any other club.

I suppose what I am trying to convey is would we really be worse off had Steve Lansdown not taken over here? It's automatically assumed we would be a mid-table third tier side at most playing in an antiquated stadium. Really? I haven't access to a crystal ball but maybe, just maybe, we might have experienced premier league football this century as managers were appointed instead of head coaches tasked with participating in the running of this club in the manner Mr Lansdown wants. Managers with football nous not head coaches effectively controlled by the man at the top with a fantastic knowledge of finance and business models but a crap comprehension of what it takes to mould a team that will take to the field with a winning mentality. 

Surely too, with the fan base we have (nothing whatsoever to do with Steve Lansdown) we would have improved OUR stadium too. Maybe it might by now have involved foreign backers, but one rarely hears the media, or supporters of the Manchester clubs, or various championship clubs who have tasted promotion to the premier league complain about this. I'm pretty sure I have never heard a Leicester City fan wish he/she was still in the championship under the ownership of a local businessman made good like the lucky  Bristol City fans experience.

I don't wish to denigrate Steve Lansdown as he has put his money into the club (although not when it comes to appointing the most important role in the club that of manager). His heart is in the right place and he feels that he is doing the best for everyone by being a benevolent dictator. However, I truly believe he has done so by disenfranchising the supporters. We have to go along with his model for the club and doff our caps and be truly grateful. We deserve a voice too, Steve. You have taken the club from us. It's only your view that counts. Yet we are supporters too. Your ideas are not working. They have rarely worked in football and are unlikely to. Treat us with respect too. Why on earth were the likes of Cook and Hughton interviewed for the post when you, the great businessman, knew full well they would never work as your lapdog unable to 'manage' this football club. I fear it was simply a cosmetic exercise to placate the fans.

Mr Lansdown if someone treated you like a mug they'd be out on their ear. Please don't treat us with disrespect. In future when you make a head coach appointment just inform us of the candidates who are prepared to play the role you have scripted for them. It will be a very uninspiring list but at least we will know where we stand. Then we, as supporters of this proud football club, might actually think that if it comes to it we will be better off forming our own club and starting at the bottom of the pyramid then passing yours on the way up.

Bit much, form a new club? We ain't doing that bad mucker. SL isn't a saint, but also hard to knock him. I honestly believe DH is part of a covid plan and we will push on when half the league have gone bust and covid has done it's financial damage. After all, we're surrounded by money men, they should know.

[spudski]

41 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We’ve always been paying customers - it’s never been any different and you’re absolutely right in that the only thing that will make the club take notice of us is if we withdrawal our support and that hits the clubs pocket.

However the club know that the majority of us will continue to support the club come what may and so will continue to take our support for granted - I’m pretty sure the same thing happens at plenty of other clubs.

True RR...but this is the first time since WW2 that fans haven't gone to games.

There has been a shift. A balance away from the Club's being able to just be nonchalant.

People have been away for a year. They have realised that football is an entertainment industry. They have had time to reflect...time to realise what's important in life. 

It's not the same anymore, and won't be ever again imo. 

The financial side of this year for everyone is yet to be fully felt. People won't have jobs to go back to... who's going to pay for all this furlough money that's been found miraculously? The knock on effects are going to be massive. People are reflecting and realising what's really important in life. We've got used to football being the norm, because it's always been accessible and easy to do. Take it away...and after a year you realise it's not really important. What's really important is the social side that comes with it. That's what people are missing. Social interaction. Feeling free and not in fear. Football is just a sideline. The more people I speak too aren't missing City...they miss the social aspect. In fact more people I know have found enjoyment in non league and the freedom you get with that.

The promised land of Prem, Var, more money etc, etc...it's a bit like being promised Kylie and getting Madge.

[Sheltons Army]

16 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I always laugh at the 82 nostalgia. I hated every god damn bit of it. A hopeless board with no clue put us on a precipice. 
 

A lot of people paid a high price. Yeah there were promotions and countless punch ips to look back on, but the only manager that was any good in the ensuing years was Steve (blessings be upon him) Cotterill. 
 

according to many IKTers that situation fell into a a fight over resources that LJ got an abundance of. 

unfair

Cooper did a excellent job with the resources he had

Jordan was very good, and what might have been if he hadn’t gone to Hearts

Ward did a good job but baulked at the next level

Gary Johnson did a fine job 

But none of those had the infrastructure or resources behind them , (That we allegedly have now) to build on , to help them that Lee Johnson had or Holden has

 

 

[handsofclay]

13 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

Bit much, form a new club? We ain't doing that bad mucker. SL isn't a saint, but also hard to knock him. I honestly believe DH is part of a covid plan and we will push on when half the league have gone bust and covid has done it's financial damage. After all, we're surrounded by money men, they should know.

Obviously it would only be an idea to form a new club if Mr Lansdown lost the majority of our present supporters with his business model. There would then exist a large group of disenchanted supporters who would rather support a club they felt a part of than one that in reality is the club of one person.

[Sheltons Army]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@handsofclay with you on this one.

For all the “we are lucky to have a great owner” there’s a view from me that says (and ironic today) so what if we had a loon of an owner but tasted some success.

I think we have a “nice, safe owner”.  Great.

But I was reading a Benham article earlier in the week (Brentford) who was a man from Finance background, but who moved into gambling.  Did that gambling background allow him to take a risk?  I dunno, but your post prompted my thinking.

I do agree, that despite having a lovely ground, it might well have been possible to be successful a different way.  Just like there is no one-single way to play football, there is no one-single owner model either.

But I’ve never felt as distant from the club as I do now.  I’m sure that is both Covid related and recent results related.  But maybe not.

Interestingly Dave Tony Bloom at Brighton made his money as a professional gambler / poker payer didn’t he 

I don’t know whether you can catch it anywhere but Steve Sidwell was on BT last night as one of the post match pundits

Jake a Humphreys was questioning him all about coaching young players in Brighton’s Academy and the thinking and philosipophy at Brighton

Most interesting - Dan Ashworths influence as DofF, age groups playing to a shape in and out of possession but coaching freedom within that

Lads having a DNA ‘passport’ that goes with them through the age groups with constant development plans for each player as they are developed to play in a particular position with a view to progression through to first team level, giving players the reassurance to ‘play’ , even if they make mistakes ,  etc etc

 

 

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

unfair

Cooper did a excellent job with the resources he had

Jordan was very good, and what might have been if he hadn’t gone to Hearts

Ward did a good job but baulked at the next level

Gary Johnson did a fine job 

But none of those had the infrastructure or resources behind them , (That we allegedly have now) to build on , to help them that Lee Johnson had or Holden has

 

 

Yes Cooper did a good job with little, in a different time, Jordan did a good job, jumped ship, came back and was not great, remind me thirty years ago, 

Ward I liked but somehow was undermined by the board, who had so much confidence in him they brought in someone else (do I remember the Leahnartson thing correctly?)

Gary Johnson was good until the players revolted, Louis Carey apparently went to the club I believe (again someone correct me if my recollection is wrong) because there was a huge row around Ivan Sproule and Basso leading to a player revolt

Eventually enter Cotterill. A first Championship in sixty years and a JPT. Having steadied the ship on a shoestring budget! Bringing in Ayling, Freeman, Wilbo etc  and attempting to sign Maguire 

Yes I take your point others did ok, the comment the only one that was any good is harsh But between them all, specifically the guys you mention,  there is no title and one JPT (maybe two) trophies. 
 

Yes Harsh but I would say this, Arron Wilbraham was recently quoted as saying that SC was always a bit annoyed he didnt get the backing Johnson did. So am I!
 

 

[handsofclay]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@handsofclay with you on this one.

For all the “we are lucky to have a great owner” there’s a view from me that says (and ironic today) so what if we had a loon of an owner but tasted some success.

I think we have a “nice, safe owner”.  Great.

But I was reading a Benham article earlier in the week (Brentford) who was a man from Finance background, but who moved into gambling.  Did that gambling background allow him to take a risk?  I dunno, but your post prompted my thinking.

I do agree, that despite having a lovely ground, it might well have been possible to be successful a different way.  Just like there is no one-single way to play football, there is no one-single owner model either.

But I’ve never felt as distant from the club as I do now.  I’m sure that is both Covid related and recent results related.  But maybe not.

Brilliant post, Davefevs, I too have never felt as distant from the club as I do now. We are constantly fed spin and part of it is how fortunate we are to have a safe owner. I don't buy it. We would still be in existence if Steve Lansdown had never joined the board. We don't know if the alternatives would have been good or bad, but it seems to be automatically assumed by most that the alternative to SL would be a basket case and therefore how lucky we are. Yet, the majority of owners of clubs of the size of Bristol City are not basket cases.

 

[Ring]

11 minutes ago, handsofclay said:

Obviously it would only be an idea to form a new club if Mr Lansdown lost the majority of our present supporters with his business model. There would then exist a large group of disenchanted supporters who would rather support a club they felt a part of than one that in reality is the club of one person.

As I see it, the business model risks the post COVID recovery. As others have mentioned, it’s about the social side, sometimes more so than the game.

Now that both have been taken away, many will be tempted to go to the pub to see friends, once we can do that again. It’s cheaper and more convenient for most. The main thing that would persuade people to come back the AG is if they saw the club playing attractive, expansive, free flowing (etc etc) football on TV. As it stands, I think many will quite rightly prefer Saturdays on their sofa with a few cans, than going out to watch 90 mins of tediousness, having probably spent £50+ on the day.

so it seems to me that the best recovery strategy is to show an attractive product in TV. But this isn’t happening, so I fear for the financial future of the club.

[Sheltons Army]

8 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yes Cooper did a good job with little, in a different time, Jordan did a good job, jumped ship, came back and was not great, remind me thirty years ago, 

Ward I liked but somehow was undermined by the board, who had so much confidence in him they brought in someone else (do I remember the Leahnartson thing correctly?)

Gary Johnson was good until the players revolted, Louis Carey apparently went to the club I believe (again someone correct me if my recollection is wrong) because there was a huge row around Ivan Sproule and Basso leading to a player revolt

Eventually enter Cotterill. A first Championship in sixty years and a JPT. Having steadied the ship on a shoestring budget! Bringing in Ayling, Freeman, Wilbo etc  and attempting to sign Maguire 

Yes I take your point others did ok, the comment the only one that was any good is harsh But between them all, specifically the guys you mention,  there is no title and one JPT (maybe two) trophies. 
 

Yes Harsh but I would say this, Arron Wilbraham was recently quoted as saying that SC was always a bit annoyed he didnt get the backing Johnson did. So am I!
 

 

Jordan had started to make us more professional in a few areas away from the pitch as well as on it , such as setting up coaching schools / youth development (We had none when he came in) 

The Club had only just stabilised post 82 (Thanks to TC and the board) and had no infrastructure at all

- with a decent set up I think Jordan may have stayed and been very sucessfull

Denis Smith encountered a difficult dressing room but I think would have done well with some time nad backing 

Ward wanted Ray Harford to come in and help as he had no Championship experience but the board saw that as a weakness and got rid of him and brought in Benny

[JBFC II]

1 hour ago, Robin Wood said:

Not talking about the players I am talking about the last failing managers assistant now becoming the new failure we should be trying to appoint the best manager for the football side as possible which to be fair its Steve's club and if the fans don't like it tuff shat that's what he tells us

Pat Lam is reportedly the best paid club manager in the world on 800k a year. The average managers salary in the championship is 878k a year (as of last April). You really can’t compare the two