BTRFTG Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, NickJ said: Where? Try starting with any of his ex-employers, those who've worked with him in any footballing capacity. It's no surprise the players at City who did well under him talk highly of him. Try the same at either Nottingham club, Pompey or Brum? Ask why when appointed he usually lasts only 18 months? Ask why his media work when out of work was limited. You'll also find a difference in the 'footballing opinion' of managers who get results. Lousy Pint is highly respected in the game for being effective. He's also, like Cotterill, disliked for being the bloke he is. You might also replay any post-match interview from his time with us in the Championship. Would you employ the bloke you see? Would you want him as a friend? At times he bordered on the deranged. Quick and aggressive to attack in deflecting his own failings. I spent two decades working in the Fourth Estate and the first rule of journalism is one never discloses sources without prior consent. That doesn't mean the information conveyed is any less valid. There's often public record (in this case Cotts employment history,) that informs beyond his managerial talents something else is at play, else he'd have stayed longer and seen out the contracts he was offered. He'd have enjoyed greater support from his employers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, BTRFTG said: Try starting with any of his ex-employers, those who've worked with him in any footballing capacity. It's no surprise the players at City who did well under him talk highly of him. Try the same at either Nottingham club, Pompey or Brum? Ask why when appointed he usually lasts only 18 months? Ask why his media work when out of work was limited. You'll also find a difference in the 'footballing opinion' of managers who get results. Lousy Pint is highly respected in the game for being effective. He's also, like Cotterill, disliked for being the bloke he is. You might also replay any post-match interview from his time with us in the Championship. Would you employ the bloke you see? Would you want him as a friend? At times he bordered on the deranged. Quick and aggressive to attack in deflecting his own failings. I spent two decades working in the Fourth Estate and the first rule of journalism is one never discloses sources without prior consent. That doesn't mean the information conveyed is any less valid. There's often public record (in this case Cotts employment history,) that informs beyond his managerial talents something else is at play, else he'd have stayed longer and seen out the contracts he was offered. He'd have enjoyed greater support from his employers. Sorry, but you said it is well documented. Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said: You can say that, but personally speaking the sacking of Cotterill, the absurd installation of SL's pet project, LJ, and now his out of his depth sidekick DH, has had a really damaging effect on my relationship with the club and also my respect for the owner. This. Exactly how I feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said: You can say that, but personally speaking the sacking of Cotterill, the absurd installation of SL's pet project, LJ, and now his out of his depth sidekick DH, has had a really damaging effect on my relationship with the club and also my respect for the owner. Hard to just forget it and move on - failing to build on that momentum and fantastic team spirit after promotion by backing SC to the hilt was a kick in the teeth not only to Cotterill himself but to thousands of fans who'd waited decades for such a moment, and were desperate for the club to grasp it. Cotterill told me at Millennium Square he genuinely wanted to go for a double promotion and the impression was players were already lined up. I can't forgive those who didn't share his ambition but instead pulled the rug from under his feet. That was our moment, that a our big opportunity - I don't see it happening at all now. What an excellent post Nailed a lot of fans thoughts IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Alessandro said: Absolutely fair enough and I respect that view - as I say, clearly mistakes were made, and continue to be. Just not sure for all the hype of the league one season and SC's bravado...I don't sit here thinking, god, that was our best chance and we f****d it right up. IMO. 2 hours ago, Red Exile said: You have summed up exactly how I sit here thinking about City! I think Alessandro was saying the opposite there RE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paignton red Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said: He’s definitely highly thought of amongst several players from the double winning side. I found it interesting he and Holden had chatted the other week too. Wonder if it was about a future loan? The nature of the job means you’ll rub people up the wrong way; just how it is. I think if I were to go for a pint with any City manager I’d be most interested to meet either SC or GJ. I can think of one person who wouldn't like to go for a pint with the 2nd mentioned person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: I think Alessandro was saying the opposite there RE! Oh I know. But the tail end of his post sums up my attitude to City up perfectly! As did yours. What a wasted opportunity. Not likely to come around again any time soon. I wish I could see it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 15 hours ago, Robbored said: Imagine what Danny Wilson could do with this squad. He’d bench our strikers for a play off final. Like it or not but he failed in the League below... I’m not sure why I responded to this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said: Cotts wouldn't have lasted long with Ashton interfering though? Even if he hadn't sulked… No, the day Ashton arrived “back” at AG unofficially in December 2015, Cotts knew he was back to sack him. Between SOD, Burt and Cotts, they’d thrown all of Ashton’s 2012 stuff which shafted McIness in the bin. Dec 15th 2015 MA - so Steve, I see your recruitment drive last summer went well, my analysis team and database must’ve been really useful. SC - no, Shaun and Keith binned that when they arrived. It was a pile of theoretical shit. We’ve gone back to watching players through a group of trusted scouts and our own eyes. Jan 14th 2016 Text from SL - Mark told me to tell you that your sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exAtyeoMax Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: No, the day Ashton arrived “back” at AG unofficially in December 2015, Cotts knew he was back to sack him. Between SOD, Burt and Cotts, they’d thrown all of Ashton’s 2012 stuff which shafted McIness in the bin. Dec 15th 2015 MA - so Steve, I see your recruitment drive last summer went well, my analysis team and database must’ve been really useful. SC - no, Shaun and Keith binned that when they arrived. It was a pile of theoretical shit. We’ve gone back to watching players through a group of trusted scouts and our own eyes. Jan 14th 2016 Text from SL - Mark told me to tell you that you're sacked. it's just shit. I think that's why I feel so strongly about the whole situation (rightly or wrongly). Well SL and MA are reaping the rewards now… good on ya both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, Red Exile said: Oh I know. But the tail end of his post sums up my attitude to City up perfectly! As did yours. What a wasted opportunity. Not likely to come around any time soon. I wish I could see it differently. I know. Being at Millennium Square that joyous day with Cotts and that triumphant City squad took me back to being outside the Council House in '76 to laud Alan Dicks and our great team of the day. More than our fair share of disappointments between but I had the same optimism walking around the harbourside afterwards as I did as a 17 year old roaring back up Park Street on my motor bike after celebrating that promotion. Loving being a Bristol City supporter, exciting days ahead. All gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: I know. Being at Millennium Square that joyous day with Cotts and that triumphant City squad took me back to being outside the Council House in '76 to laud Alan Dicks and our great team of the day. More than our fair share of disappointments between but I had the same optimism walking around the harbourside afterwards as I did as a 17 year old roaring back up Park Street on my motor bike after celebrating that promotion. Loving being a Bristol City supporter, exciting days ahead. All gone now. Nailed it perfectly again Nogs I was a massive, massive , fan of Gary Johnson and what he did here but even when he took us up I didn’t have the same excitement about momentum / opportunity / potential ahead Ironically He performed far better than I or anyone could have expected the following season ( probably in a minority For me another massive mistake in SLs reign - If I was SL I would have told Carey and the rest of any rebel group to start looking for another Club , and backed GJ - Was a time for the owner to stand strong and back a sucessful manager) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Both did good things here, and both did bad things here; Cotts saved us from L2 and left us a full division/24 or so places higher than when he arrived; LJ steered us to top half stable Championship reglers. Cotts gave us an historic double, but at a lower level; LJ gave us a great cup run and our third league cup semi, and a dazzling few months in 2017/18 at a level of football we have never really "dazzled" in. Both were only here a short time, Cotts a little over 2 years. While Steve Lansdown's been here a long time and is the constant in an overall record of largely underwhelming and unspectacular achievement on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 hours ago, pillred said: You said until December, the poster had quoted 2017 2018 for the best football he had seen, which was when Lee Johnson was in charge not Steve Cotterill who he was mistakenly referring to. I think he and you had been referring to Dec 2016. I took it to mean that he thought that season from Johnson was better than under Cotterill. It was my way of pointing out that it was only half a season. (And it wasn't better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said: Nailed it perfectly again Nogs I was a massive, massive , fan of Gary Johnson and what he did here but even when he took us up I didn’t have the same excitement about momentum / opportunity / potential ahead Ironically He performed far better than I or anyone could have expected the following season ( probably in a minority For me another massive mistake in SLs reign - If I was SL I would have told Carey and the rest of any rebel group to start looking for another Club , and backed GJ - Was a time for the owner to stand strong and back a sucessful manager) Couldn't agree more Shelts, I said the same on here at the time. I remember City fans at the game being appalled with the lackadaisical performance of many of the players and saying the players were lucky they couldn't get in the dressing room to show they were as furious as GJ. Another terrible decision from SL imo - Carey and the others should have gone, not GJ. That he went on to supposedly break the truly great John Atyeo's appearance record (including 5 min. sub. apps. to help him limp over the line when he should have been given a free transfer at least 2 years previously) still rankles with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 I'm just thinking: What is Cotts doing all day, stuck in bed in hospital here in Bristol? For weeks. You wouldn't be browsing the interweb, would you Steve, still checking to see who loves ya, and who doesn't? Anyway, get well Steve. Get well soon. And start making notes for the biography, with fine detail covering the summer of 2015, and the months that followed, in particular. Or, you could register on here, just to kill time, while you recover. @Winner15 sounds good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Alessandro said: An era of missed opportunities, I agree with. Mistakes made, 100%. Same mistakes made, 100%. My personal opinion is that all of this didn't necessarily hinge on SC or LJ in the way some continue to go on about. The SC argument hinges on rumours, yes rumours (we've done it over and over) of a 2 missed quality signings - people talk of wasting this amazing league one squad with unbelievable spirit - well it was in the relegation zone at that point. Had SC gone on to manage say Brentford, Preston or Millwall and taken them up since, then hell yeah, you've got more power to your argument about what could he have done here. But in the last five years or so, it's been, what, 4 months managing basket case Brum and then back down to league one for 3 months.... Do I think mistakes were made, 100% - did SC have a fair crack of the whip? Well maybe some things went against him, but as I say, we were in the relegation zone, sticking with a failing 3-5-2 and he was increasingly 'losing the plot'. It's all speculation. Personally I prefer to discuss what is happening now and reflecting on what's not worked in the past in order to try and understand how we can improve - rather than forever speculating/fantasying about what could have been and bashing previous managers at any/every opportunity. A balanced view. "Lost the plot" is undoubtedly right. He gave Lansdown the ammunition that he so desperately wanted. That, in my opinion, is why he unfortunately had to go. Not because he couldn't have pushed us on if he had been backed. His treatment after what he had done for us was nothing short of disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 The squad of 2015 would give todays squad a beating that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolman_Stand Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just now, BobbyC said: The squad of 2015 would give todays squad a beating that's for sure. Not sure about that, as good as that team was we did struggle against bang average Championship teams which is exactly what we are at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said: Not sure about that, as good as that team was we did struggle against bang average Championship teams which is exactly what we are at present. We are far worse than a bang average Championship team at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLionLad Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Being a manager at Bristol City must be like being married into the Royal Family. The Queen doesn’t like you, but you must pretend she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 52 minutes ago, Superjack said: His treatment after what he had done for us was nothing short of disgusting. What was shocking exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: What was shocking exactly? I said disgusting. Sadly not shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Cotts was unfortunate in that we didn't get our act together in the summer transfer window after promotion and the squad was lacking in numbers and experience. However he was a bit of a one-trick pony in that the wing-back system was all he'd go with even when it was obvious other coaches in the Championship had sussed out our weaknesses and would score at will on the break after letting us have possession for long periods. Once Pembo, then LJ came in and switched to a back four that saved us from going down, Cotts could and should have done that but kept playing the same hand to his cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, BobbyC said: The squad of 2015 would give todays squad a beating that's for sure. I assume we're talking the 14/15 team from 2014/15 as opposed to the players they are today? Lets take the team we started this season with vs the team had that season Fielding vs Bentley - Bentley Little vs Hunt - Hunt edges (Little struggled to make the step up for me, destructive at L1 level though but Hunt has been a consistent champ performer) Vyner vs Ayling - Ayling edges (remember this isn't the Ayling playing FB for Leeds, and I'm taking this as Zak at the start of the season where he's getting better and better) Kalas vs Flint - Level (Flint's ability from set pieces is what makes this close as an out and out defender Kalas has him beat) Mawson vs Williams - Mawson Dasilva vs Bryan - Bryan edges CM's are a bit of a different story as I don't feel we have players who all play comparative roles so will compare as a 3 Freeman, Elliott and Smith vs Massengo, Weimann and Paterson (Cov 3, however could easily add Williams as he was here and Nagy) - Freeman struggled to step up in his role, Wade retired at the end of that season and Smith was the only one who stepped up to championship level with Pack coming in who took time to adapt. Vs the 3 of this season where they started well, think you'd have to edge that this squads way. Wilbraham and Agard vs Diedhiou and Wells - On pure ability its Wells and Diedhiou as Wilbs and Agard wouldn't (and didn't) come close to 14 in a season in the championship The team morale when you look from the outside was certainly better with 14/15 and as title winners thats natural, however the quality gap is (for me at least) just a step too far. It would essentially be a cup game (kinda like tonight) 'oooo we might be able to cause an upset here' where in reality it would be more than likely for the 20/21 side to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 I really don't see what the problem is and viewing things through rose tinted retro-spectacles hard makes things any better. Cotts - delivered us a double, but went somewhat odd, insisting in playing a system we didn't have the players for and leaving gaps on the bench, and was sacked after a run of bad results. I'm sure we all heard rumours about preferred agents and other superstitions that probably didn't help. So, yeah. Was great at the time, but it didn't last and his achievements since leaving us haven't been anything to shout about. LJ - Surprsing choice given his lack of managerial successes, and given more than enough time and transfer windows to build a top 6 side, financed in part due to player sales, but more than adequately supported. Had a number of faults, clubs in the bag, improving the 1%, throwing young players under the bus for individual mistakes, random selection policy etc.. but in amongst that, he did improve his final league position year after year (except the last one) and whilst the football was stale toward the end, there were some highlights. End of the day, neither are employed by City for the right reasons now, and the current manager is yet to convince, despite a fairly healthy league position and still being in the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: I really don't see what the problem is and viewing things through rose tinted retro-spectacles hard makes things any better. Cotts - delivered us a double, but went somewhat odd, insisting in playing a system we didn't have the players for and leaving gaps on the bench, and was sacked after a run of bad results. I'm sure we all heard rumours about preferred agents and other superstitions that probably didn't help. So, yeah. Was great at the time, but it didn't last and his achievements since leaving us haven't been anything to shout about. LJ - Surprsing choice given his lack of managerial successes, and given more than enough time and transfer windows to build a top 6 side, financed in part due to player sales, but more than adequately supported. Had a number of faults, clubs in the bag, improving the 1%, throwing young players under the bus for individual mistakes, random selection policy etc.. but in amongst that, he did improve his final league position year after year (except the last one) and whilst the football was stale toward the end, there were some highlights. End of the day, neither are employed by City for the right reasons now, and the current manager is yet to convince, despite a fairly healthy league position and still being in the cup. Is a fair summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoystonFoote'snephew Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Forget Cotts, no new manager including Guardiola, Klopp or the Special One would get us into the top 2 now, or even guarantee the play offs, which we wouldn't win anyway. Injuries have ensured we cant compete at the top of this division this season. As it stands we are nowhere near on a par with Norwich, Brentford or Swansea but might compete with Bournemouth, Watford and Reading if the squad was fully fit. And if the squad was fully fit I'd take it to beat the 2015 squad no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Still conflicted on Cotts sacking, arguments for and against- but the way he was sacked was disgraceful- as Dave reminded me, by text and having done his press conference in particular. Those two bits- he deserved much better than that. Still wonder if he might have been better served parking his ambitions for a year, and then benefiting from the increase in crowds, commercial income, matchday income etc. Downside of a thinner squad as we might have needed- again FFP- had we signed Maguire and Gray is what if we get a lot of injuries? Well and truly snookered- though we didn't seem to get that many and certainly not that many long term, or recurring ones under Cotts. Unsure if he helped himself- but otoh we arguably had a weaker squad than we got promoted with. I remember thinking that at the time...making Tavernier permanent would have been desirable, keeping Cunningham as a Plan B for depth or the occasional back 4 too. Elliott retired- hole in the midfield. Q for @NickJ though- if Cotts is/was such a magician, where are the Championship clubs beating a path to his door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdliketoRogerMoore Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 09/02/2021 at 21:50, Sheltons Army said: You , and others still can’t see through him after 4 1/2 years The Sunderland fans meanwhile have him sussed in 2 months and many did within 2 or 3 weeks Where in my post did I say Johnson was the messiah? I said he saved us with Pemberton that season which he did! Not sure where you get I think Johnson is the greatest manager ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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