Sunderland fans loving POMO’s and USP’s

[Rob k]

Just now, Davefevs said:

I’m sure it wasn’t quite as simple as that, but Pelling allegedly meddled, tried to go back to Brentford / Hull and tried to do a “better” deal, and both clubs thought City / Pelling was taking the pi$$.  In Hull’s case they upped the fee, basically saying if you want to take the pi$$, so will we.  In Brentford’s case it was let’s see if anyone else is interested and if we can get more by way of a bidding war….that’s when Burnley came in and the £4m went to £6m, and Gray could start asking for more wages too, £18k instead of £14k.  Things dragged on into the season.  With Burnley’s interest, he was only ever gonna go there, despite us still trying.  So, Cotts tried to get Gayle.  

Which sounds much more like the truth, i find it very difficult to believe that SC knew nothing about it though 

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Think that’s fair….they were bloody dangerous together!  Would’ve liked to see LJ with Keith Burt!

I’m not convinced we won’t see LJ here again at some point in the future….

[Phileas Fogg]

22 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I’d loved to have seen LJ here without Mark Ashton 

I'm looking out for Sunderlands results for this reason. He seems to have recruited well this summer and they're currently top, albeit after a handful of games.

Promotion will be expected in a competitive league so he needs to deliver this season. I think LJ, like his dad, might actually make better transfers when he doesn't have a big budget. 

[Alessandro]

42 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I'm looking out for Sunderlands results for this reason. He seems to have recruited well this summer and they're currently top, albeit after a handful of games.

Promotion will be expected in a competitive league so he needs to deliver this season. I think LJ, like his dad, might actually make better transfers when he doesn't have a big budget. 

Looking at what both LJ and MA are now up to at their new clubs, it certainly looks like it's MA who, with 18 odd new signings this summer, is the bigger "spender" of the two when there's money available.

[Rob k]

14 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Looking at what both LJ and MA are now up to at their new clubs, it certainly looks like it's MA who, with 18 odd new signings this summer, is the bigger "spender" of the two when there's money available.

And with a similar approach to what we saw here….

[CheddarReds]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

£2.5m Maguire, £4m Gray wasn’t it?

This is painful to think about!

[bcfcredandwhite]

I too watch Sunderland's results with interest. 

I supported LJ for most of his time at AG. I felt that there was a certain section of our fan base who had it in for him from day 1 and WANTED him to fail. Ultimately the football 'stagnated' and he ran out of ideas so it was right that he went - and I'm fully behind Pearson now, but I do think LJ took more than his fair share of criticism from some people.

I always wondered how LJ would do if he didn't have Ashton pulling his strings with one foot on LJ's head. His current management of Sunderland gives us that picture. I'm curious to see if Sunderland will go on 'streaks' like we did. 

I wish LJ all the very best. I truly believe that he loves our club, having both played and managed here and I really hope he gets a decent reception when/if he returns to the away dugout.

 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

1 hour ago, Selred said:

Actually if I remember rightly it was Alan Nixon in the Sun reporting it. 

If Alan Nixon subsequently reported it after it appeared on here...I don’t know?

The original rumour was made by a poster on here who ended up getting quite aggressive with anyone who questioned his information. Some posters quickly jumped to his defence and attacked anyone who called BS.

To this day Jesse Lingard has played zero minutes in a Bristol City shirt.

[Leveller]

16 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I too watch Sunderland's results with interest. 

I supported LJ for most of his time at AG. I felt that there was a certain section of our fan base who had it in for him from day 1 and WANTED him to fail. Ultimately the football 'stagnated' and he ran out of ideas so it was right that he went - and I'm fully behind Pearson now, but I do think LJ took more than his fair share of criticism from some people.

I always wondered how LJ would do if he didn't have Ashton pulling his strings with one foot on LJ's head. His current management of Sunderland gives us that picture. I'm curious to see if Sunderland will go on 'streaks' like we did. 

I wish LJ all the very best. I truly believe that he loves our club, having both played and managed here and I really hope he gets a decent reception when/if he returns to the away dugout.

 

There was a large group who loathed LJ as a player and he was never going to get any objective assessment from lots of those from day one. People may have forgotten how divisive his reputation was even in those days.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Leveller

[chinapig]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Think that’s fair….they were bloody dangerous together!  Would’ve liked to see LJ with Keith Burt!

Yes, LJ needed an experienced football man to guide and restrain him. Things might have turned out differently without Ashton reinforcing LJ's worst tendencies and vice versa.

[samo II]

Hard to argue with his record at Sunderland just now.

Might be their times with their respective clubs will give us a better understanding of who out of Ashton and Johnson was more responsible for the negatives from their time here.

As it stands; LJ is doing far, far better at his new location than Ashton is at his.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, samo II said:

Hard to argue with his record at Sunderland just now.

Might be their times with their respective clubs will give us a better understanding of who out of Ashton and Johnson was more responsible for the negatives from their time here.

As it stands; LJ is doing far, far better at his new location than Ashton is at his.

I think he also deserves plenty of credit for taking the Sunderland role.

One of the criticisms of LJ during his time here was that throughout his career he's played it safe - either playing for his dad or under SL here.

Sunderland is nothing like that - success will be demanded given the stature of the club and he will have to deliver. It was a very brave choice of club.

[Alessandro]

11 minutes ago, Leveller said:

There was a large group who loathed LJ as a player and he was never going to get any objective assessment from lots of those from day one. People may have forgotten how divisive his reputation was even when we got to the play off final.

I would add to that the fact that he replaced SC who was/is rightly a well respected manager for many City fans, and virtually God like for a handful. A few of SC’s biggest fans were LJ’s biggest critics.

[Bris Red]

I have nothing against LJ. As others said it was only ever plainly obvious that the man was trying his best for our club and that is all you can ever ask from a manager or player.

The combination of him and Ashton become toxic and it was poor inept stewardship from the Lansdown family to allow it to stagnate to the point that it did. I was and am still of the opinion that LJ and Ashton should have gone at the end of the 2018 season. It was clear to many that after that Wolves game it wasn’t working and fresh impetus was needed. The 17/18 season at times was a great season what with getting to the league cup semi final and beating Man U but we needed to be ruthless as a club.. ultimately  the blame for me always will lay at the door of the owner - nobody can blame LJ for wanting to stay on at the club he clearly cares a lot about.

[exAtyeoMax]

2 hours ago, Rob k said:

Which sounds much more like the truth, i find it very difficult to believe that SC knew nothing about it though 

I’m not convinced we won’t see LJ here again at some point in the future….

It's perfectly plausible knowing the shithousery involved in big business

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, Rob k said:

I’d loved to have seen LJ here without Mark Ashton 

This is where we come back, yet again, to poor old Steve, and his dubious decisions and choices. As @samo II, a quick look at the L1 table makes you wonder what would've happened if Steve had bombed Ashton out before he got rid of LJ.

"Hindsight!" many will protest. But Steve is on the inside, with all the facts and the information at his disposal, the ability to speak directly to everyone involved, and it his task to make the right calls at the right time (like the owners at Brighton, Brentford etc) but when we look back, we can see that Steve makes decisions that are at best questionable.

We had Bristol City with LJ and Ashton here, and the outcome was good and bad; then we had Bristol City with Ashton but not LJ, and the result was poor; what we never had was Bristol City with LJ but not Ashton. We'll never know what that could've been like.

And that's down to Steve.

[Phileas Fogg]

18 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I would add to that the fact that he replaced SC who was/is rightly a well respected manager for many City fans, and virtually God like for a handful. A few of SC’s biggest fans were LJ’s biggest critics.

True. I don't really understand the strength of dislike towards LJ. You just know that if Sunderland were 21st with 4 points this thread would've been bumped and heavily commented on by those that dislike Johnson. There'd be quotes taken from the Sunderland forum etc. 

If/when Sunderland hit bad form it'll happen for certain.

I don't see why people can't just wish both managers well - they both tried their best and helped the club. 

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

One thing`s almost for sure, if SC or LJ ever write autobiographies there will be some shit hitting various fans!

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

was a very brave choice of club.

Or a club the size of Sunderland have a great chance of signing the best players in that division and offer a higher chance of a promotion on the CV than a club like Shrewsbury for example.

The pressure for results is there whichever club a manager is employed but certain clubs offer more potential  for  success than others. 
 

Sunderland will always be amongst the favourites for promotion when they are in the third tier. 
 

I hope LJ gets promoted with them and then we will perhaps see him fulfilling his potential.

 

[Major Isewater]

18 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

One thing`s almost for sure, if SC or LJ ever write autobiographies there will be some shit hitting various fans!

Incoming ! 

[Selred]

2 hours ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

If Alan Nixon subsequently reported it after it appeared on here...I don’t know?

 

I doubt that's the case. We may of been interest in him though? 

[Unan]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I'm looking out for Sunderlands results for this reason. He seems to have recruited well this summer and they're currently top, albeit after a handful of games.

Promotion will be expected in a competitive league so he needs to deliver this season. I think LJ, like his dad, might actually make better transfers when he doesn't have a big budget. 

I thought I was the one obsessed with LJ  

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Or a club the size of Sunderland have a great chance of signing the best players in that division and offer a higher chance of a promotion on the CV than a club like Shrewsbury for example.

The pressure for results is there whichever club a manager is employed but certain clubs offer more potential  for  success than others. 
 

Sunderland will always be amongst the favourites for promotion when they are in the third tier. 
 

I hope LJ gets promoted with them and then we will perhaps see him fulfilling his potential.

 

To an extent, but I used the word brave because Sunderland will be unforgiving. There were far safer options he could've picked that would give him more time if things go bad. 

14 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

I thought I was the one obsessed with LJ  

Not sure if looking out for results of another club makes you 'obsessed' - I also look out for Shrewsbury's results for the same reason and Bristol Rovers results for another reason.

I just thought you started lots of threads to try and restart old debates about Johnson, something I haven't done. 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

55 minutes ago, Selred said:

I doubt that's the case. We may of been interest in him though? 

Then I doubt Nixon reported it at all otherwise the poster who put it on here would’ve said so, which they didn’t.
In fact, if I remember correctly, when I asked them if they could put any meat on the bones the response was along the lines of “I don’t really give a **** if you believe me or not, I know what I know”.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan

[Bristol Oil Services]

42 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

To an extent, but I used the word brave because Sunderland will be unforgiving. There were far safer options he could've picked that would give him more time if things go bad. 

Who would that be, then? 

[Phileas Fogg]

21 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Who would that be, then? 

I'd say any other side in League 1 for a start. Sunderland are a massive club and their fanbase expect much better than L1. 

[Daniro]

5 hours ago, Rob k said:

I’d loved to have seen LJ here without Mark Ashton 

The more distance we've got from Mark Ashton, the clearer it is what a bad influence he was.     LJ ran out of road with us but he's as true a Red as you'll find, if you think about it.   HIs dad was manager, he was a player and then Head Coach etc...     He was a promising young manager and he didn't do a bad job for us overall given how little experience he had.      We really needed someone with serious football experience in that director of football role to support him  ... not a flash ego in a fancy suit.    

With Pearson and Gould we do now have a nice mix of football and commercial experience.     The future's bright.  

Just the present that's still a bit sh!t

 

[Selred]

43 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

Then I doubt Nixon reported it at all otherwise the poster who put it on here would’ve said so, which they didn’t.
In fact, if I remember correctly, when I asked them if they could put any meat on the bones the response was along the lines of “I don’t really give a **** if you believe me or not, I know what I know”.

It was in the Sun. Know I'm not going mental! 

[Ska Junkie]

I do like the comparison between the fortunes of LJ and the car salesman now they're in competition.

LJ has an undoubted love / affinity for this club and I wish him well at Sunderland. He worked extremely hard but the change was probably overdue. The car salesman loves one thing, himself.

LJ without Ashton? I would be content with that in the future.

As said above, I too think he will be back at some point.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ska Junkie

[TMWANG50]

Interestingly although early days Sunderland have only played teams in the top 9 of the table so an even better start than it looks on paper for LJ

Edited September 17, 2021 by TMWANG50

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, Rob k said:

Which sounds much more like the truth, i find it very difficult to believe that SC knew nothing about it though 

I’m not convinced we won’t see LJ here again at some point in the future….

Ashton got rid of Burt pretty quickly then Des Taylor after that.  It’s a shame Burt went, because he wasn’t a Cotts man, SOD had brought him in, so had proved he could work with different managers…and his talent ID was pretty good.  I think it’s exactly what Lee needed.

Of course, what is obvious (to me) is that Ashton had a plan.  Come in as COO, get rid of the HOR (Burt), then Taylor, get his feet firmly under the table and “advise” SL that he could do COO and HOR, with a promotion to CEO.  All whilst employing his Nephew / Brother-in-Law (Werhun) as Club Secretary then making up his role to be Head of Football Operations to replace the admin he did as COO.

Werhun is now COO at Ipswich….another little promotion based on nepotism.

Money for Effin old rope!!! Grifters!!!

That all happened a year after (2017) he joined (2015/16)….and that was where my suspicions first surfaced about him.  My finances / accounts analysis joined the dots together.

I have my criticisms of LJ, but I never disliked him like I did Ashton.

5 hours ago, CheddarReds said:

This is painful to think about!

Maguire might’ve been £2m and Gray £4.5m….but together that kind of ball-park.