Sunderland fans loving POMO’s and USP’s

[fgrsimon]

I think his luck just ran out this time. When he was on that record breaking run of losses here, he got almost a gimme against Rotherham at Ashton Gate and they were the worst Championship side for years that season. 

Sunderland's next game is Donny at home and they're bottom

Only 2 points off top 2 but Wigan have 4 games in hand and Rotherham 2, so in reality could be 8 points or so. 

Edited January 30, 2022 by fgrsimon

[Fordy62]

8 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

To those querying why Sunderland acted as they did tonight, (acted as we should have 18 months before he eventually went,) when in management it's never about where you are but where you aspire to be and how you plan to get there. A quick scan of the Sunderland forums leads one to the inevitable conclusion that one can't kid a kidder. Doubtless the Sunderland board also sounded out elements of the playing staff. From the gibberish he came out with post-match yesterday, would you stand up and back him? De Facto managers delegate to players on the pitch but any manager worth their salt will tell you you always ensure your charges know that when tasks are delegated and should they fail, you're the backstop. You stand up and carry the can 100%, never ones charges.  If it isn't your fault your bosses will know, those you deal with will understand, your humility will be acknowledged and accommodated. That's the whole point of delegation. Yesterday, rather than highlight all that went right in his planning he should have focussed on what went wrong, even if it wasn't his fault, but fully accepting responsibility for the drubbing. Every pun intended but Johnson isn't big enough to do that.

For all the stories Johnson had to tell there was always the nagging doubt that he'd never be able to back them up. As when he was on speed dial to some of Europe's finest managers whilst delivering his best managerial performances and did they place their trust their him? Like Ryan Kent they did. Sporadically playing a kid out of position, in a system nobody other than Johnson thought worth playing. Those actually on speed dial weren't shy in calling each other with dire warnings of how best to protect their talent.

Again, the basics of management, whatever sector one occupies, is ones most important assets are the folks who work within and interact with ones organisation. Johnson's fundamental problem is he isn't a people person. It's easy to cast him with Napoleon Complex but that's because the prerequisite for stereotype is a deeply engrained element of truth. As many times before, the Sunderland board must have reviewed his antics against Lincoln, his posturing, his short-lived fuse, his running as quick for cover behind the nearest lump he can find when realising he's out of his depth. Biggest problem for him is he's probably never in his life been on the receiving end of a lamping. Nothing so useful as to focus ones actions and strategy.

Does his going change my attitude toward him? Not one bit. He ruined this club, that's his legacy, that isn't for changing.

Goodness me. Have yourself a high five!

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, tin said:

Spot on. I’ll add to the fact that he arrived on the back of an 8-game losing streak at Barnsley, and had achieved nothing there or at Oldham. He was still a novice learning his trade and IMO was a significant downgrade on Cotterill.

If SC was to go, a proven manager should’ve been brought in to get the best out of our young, hungry squad. For what it’s worth, I doubt any proven manager would work under Ashton and him selling the family silver sometimes against LJ’s will. Maybe that goes some way to explaining his appointment here.

But, to me, we needed one or two quality additions to add to that squad and SC would’ve been fine. Instead, Ashton undermined him and the rest is history. 

He achieved at Oldham FYI. At some clubs, achievement doesn’t just mean promotion 

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, chinapig said:

My point is he needed a mentor when he joined us not a bad influence like Ashton. An experienced Director of Football might have been ideal. The die is now cast so it's too late to change him now.

That’s long been my thought too.  Who was his football philosopher too, all the good ones have had someone to base their style on, e.g. Wenger had Platini’s dad.  

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s long been my thought too.  Who was his football philosopher too, all the good ones have had someone to base their style on, e.g. Wenger had Platini’s dad.  

Surely his dad and his uncle were his mentors? In his eyes at least?  Not officially of course but I’d imagine that’s what his answer may be if asked (along with direct lines to Pep etc!)

Edited January 30, 2022 by lenred

[the1stknowle]

29 minutes ago, Taz said:

To be fair, an iffy run and a hammering was never going to end well at somewhere like Sunderland. "Too good to be in league 1" is what they think.

He was extremely lucky here in the respect that Lansdown has never been one to quickly pull the trigger, as well as the fact that the Johnsons and Lansdowns have a very good relationship. He was never going to last there (or anywhere else probably) for as long as he was here, without winning things.

One year in a job, winning over half your games. That is a good job at Sunderland. And he just got manager of the month a few weeks ago. 

I agree that a big chunk of their fans seem entitled like few others outside traditional top 4. 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

A Mate has just text to tell me that apparently the decision to leave was mutual and LJ is off to join Pep at Man City. 

Pep as his no2 I assume…uncle Brian has sorted it

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Warnock to Sunderland is a rumour!

That would be the ultimate kick in the gonads for LJ, firstly being replaced by his assistant here, then being replaced by a “dinosaur” (not my view) when he’s a bright, modern coach.

[Portland Bill]

2 hours ago, One Team said:

Their forum is quite a read. 

Lots of “enough was enough” type comments. 

Enough of what? One point off promotion, two points off the title? 

If they were outside the play offs or way off automatic and they had that defeat they perhaps I’d see the point. 

I’m not much of a LJ fan but it seems very harsh. 

Fans of other clubs had the thoughts that he was doing a good job when he was here, but they never had to sit and watch drab, boring, negative football, and then get told we won the game on “box entries” after losing for the ninth time in a row!. 

In my view he is a fraud, one cup run in 8-9 seasons  as a manager is no track record, basically he has done absolutely zilch in his management career.

He took away my love of watching my club play, for that I will never forgive him. 
Sunderland have done what SL should have done 2-3 years earlier, in fact, he should never have been appointed here in the first place. 

[Frenchay Red]

If it wasn't for the fact that SL appointed his dad as manager he would never have played for us nor have been ridiculously given the head coach job.

Lansdown's folly.

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, lenred said:

Surely his dad and his uncle were his mentors? In his eyes at least?  Not officially of course but I’d imagine that’s what his answer may be if asked (along with direct lines to Pep etc!)

Yet, he slagged off his dad to a forum member (at a Q&A session) along the lines of “my dad is just a good man-manager of lower league players”.  That’s pretty dismissive, and lack of recognition of his own weaknesses in man-management.  He might’ve had a better tactical brain than his dad, but you need more than that.

[SydneyCity]

Chucking it out there… is there a proportion of this that could be linked to his reported "Covid rant"?

 

[Lrrr]

Random shout for his next job, England age group stuff, think the U20’s are without a coach atm. Takes him out of the league spotlight for now.

[BUTOR]

2 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Fans of other clubs had the thoughts that he was doing a good job when he was here, but they never had to sit and watch drab, boring, negative football, and then get told we won the game on “box entries” after losing for the ninth time in a row!. 

In my view he is a fraud, one cup run in 8-9 seasons  as a manager is no track record, basically he has done absolutely zilch in his management career.

He took away my love of watching my club play, for that I will never forgive him. 
Sunderland have done what SL should have done 2-3 years earlier, in fact, he should never have been appointed here in the first place. 

If cotts is going to be lauded as a ‘double winner’, then Johnson deserves credit for an EFL trophy. 

Some of the replies on this thread are oddly personal. The Lee Johnson years didn’t come close to other, genuine horrors of the past. Yes, he was given time and money, and at our worst we were drab, but at our best we could be scintillating. 

His era had excitement and some of the loftiest heights we experienced in the previous decade. Compare this to other managers of the last 10-20 years who barely even left with a memorable win on their city CV. 
 

The truth is, there is, was, and always will be, some kind of strange personal vendetta against Lee Johnson from sections of our fan base. I don’t understand it, you don’t know the man. He was the manager of your football team, but some of you have such deeply personal character assessments that you can’t possibly be basing solely on that? 
 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Bouncearoundtheground

[RedLionLad]

Johnson lost just 18 games out of 78 at Sunderland. 
 

As a comparison, Pearson has lost 23 out of 45.

Edited January 31, 2022 by RedLionLad

[BCFC Grim]

5 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

Johnson lost just 18 games out of 78 at Sunderland. 
 

As a comparison, Pearson has lost 23 out of 45.

After having to pick up the complete mess that Ashton and Johnson left us in. I've seen more identity in how we play in the last month that anything LJ produced in his last two years. 

Add in the what LJ was allowed to bring in, while Pearson is having to make do with what was left to him I'd say that was a pointless comparison.

[SecretSam]

I'm baffled by two things: the decision by Sunderland (they're THIRD), and the (continued) hatred for LJ on here.

Yes, things went wrong towards the end, but was that all down to him? We had some tremendous results and let's not forget, we were in a real mess when he took over.

It was the right time to let him go from AG, but this decision by Sunderland is nuts.

[RedLionLad]

18 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

After having to pick up the complete mess that Ashton and Johnson left us in. I've seen more identity in how we play in the last month that anything LJ produced in his last two years. 

Add in the what LJ was allowed to bring in, while Pearson is having to make do with what was left to him I'd say that was a pointless comparison.

If you’re telling me that facts are pointless but your opinion trumps it, then that’s ok.

[Numero Uno]

5 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

Johnson lost just 18 games out of 78 at Sunderland. 
 

As a comparison, Pearson has lost 23 out of 45.

Wonderful perspective there

[Ecko]

5 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

Johnson lost just 18 games out of 78 at Sunderland. 
 

As a comparison, Pearson has lost 23 out of 45.

The difference between league 1 and championship is huge. Pointless comparison.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Ecko said:

The difference between league 1 and championship is huge. Pointless comparison.

Not to mention no consideration of the completely different circumstances in each situation. Joke comparison not pointless tbh……

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I'm baffled by two things: the decision by Sunderland (they're THIRD), and the (continued) hatred for LJ on here.

Yes, things went wrong towards the end, but was that all down to him? We had some tremendous results and let's not forget, we were in a real mess when he took over.

It was the right time to let him go from AG, but this decision by Sunderland is nuts.

And exactly the same when he left.

Sure Sunderland are third but LJ was sacked after his team got stuffed 6-0 - now that kind of result is relatively commonplace throughout the leagues and managers don’t usually get sacked on the back of it.  LJ getting relived of his duties suggests to me that there were other behind the scenes going’s on. Maybe the players weren’t on board the LJ train and possibly his man management skills were the same as his dads and that what’s really lies behind him getting the elbow…………

I have some sympathy for him tho - he’s still living in the shadow of his father and trying desperately to become a success on his own back and so far he’s failed miserably.

[Fordy62]

5 hours ago, RedLionLad said:

Johnson lost just 18 games out of 78 at Sunderland. 
 

As a comparison, Pearson has lost 23 out of 45.

Wayne Rooney has won 8 league games this season. 
 

As a comparison, Joey Barton has won 10. 
 

It’s good this game isn’t it?

[Major Isewater]

8 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Wayne Rooney has won 8 league games this season. 
 

As a comparison, Joey Barton has won 10. 
 

It’s good this game isn’t it?

Joey Barton to Sunderland ? 
 

[RedLionLad]

20 minutes ago, Ecko said:

The difference between league 1 and championship is huge. Pointless comparison.

The point is, without the 3 or 4 poor results, Johnson’s record at Sunderland (losing 18 out of 78 and winning a trophy) was pretty good…….and would have been the exactly the same had they been narrowly beaten in those 3 or 4 games.

[Monkeh]

No surprise he was sacked,

While he can turn around a clubs fortune he doesn't have what it takes to take the club to the next level or get promotion,.expect him to be Ipswich manager next season so ashton can get his yes man

[RedRoss]

I think one of LJ's biggest downfalls is his connection to fans. I'm not sure why maybe its the 'Brent' like phrases ect but it seems wherever he goes he rubs up some fans the wrong way with him just being himself. Even opposition fans seemed to dislike him too.

I think Sunderland was a very bad choice as their fans have got a sense of entitlement whenever I look on their forum. They may well be punching below their apparent club size and have for a while but they're expectation is very high so the chances of appeasing that fanbase was always going to be difficult.

 

[BrizzleRed]

34 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I'm baffled by two things: the decision by Sunderland (they're THIRD), and the (continued) hatred for LJ on here.

Yes, things went wrong towards the end, but was that all down to him? We had some tremendous results and let's not forget, we were in a real mess when he took over.

It was the right time to let him go from AG, but this decision by Sunderland is nuts.

Were we really??  Granted, Cotts threw his toys out of the pram when he felt he wasn’t being backed and results took a dive, but there was a very good, if small squad there.

Do you honestly believe that double winning squad LJ inherited was more of a mess than the bloated squad of overpaid misfits and dross he left us with and we’re still trying to clear out?

 

[RedLionLad]

4 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

I think one of LJ's biggest downfalls is his connection to fans. I'm not sure why maybe its the 'Brent' like phrases ect but it seems wherever he goes he rubs up some fans the wrong way with him just being himself. Even opposition fans seemed to dislike him too.

I think Sunderland was a very bad choice as their fans have got a sense of entitlement whenever I look on their forum. They may well be punching below their apparent club size and have for a while but they're expectation is very high so the chances of appeasing that fanbase was always going to be difficult.

 

A few poor results under a new manager will make for some decent ‘content’ on their forums.

[dREDful]

Confused by the whole "they're third" and "I hope they stay down now" shouts. 

If they stuck with LJ they were staying down and they're clinging onto third at the moment. 

7 league wins in 17 league games - that is not promotion form - Sunderland have looked at the last 17 games of LJ's career and the rest of it to correctly identify that they would remain a League One side under him. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they can find their way back into the top two should they appoint someone with knowledge on promotion. 

LJ is, as he always was, a failure again. 

[sglosbcfc]

At least they have given the new manager plenty of opportunity to operate in the transfer window!