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Sunderland fans loving POMO’s and USP’s


NickJ

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17 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

3 losses in 13 games and 3rd in the league. Very surprised he’s been sacked. Sunderland fans are an odd bunch. One minute they love him and when he loses one or two games they want him gone. 

Our fans can be like that. Loads would sack Pearson before he has been given any money to spend. Ludicrous!

I’m not surprised Johnson had been sacked though. He is the master of inexplicable results, thinks football is a science and bamboozles everyone with utter tactical nonsense and drivel, thinks possession and passing sideways for 80 minutes is important and gets out a tombola when it comes to substitutions. I give him credit for turning Bobby Reid into a striker but as far as game management was concerned he was totally clueless.

People harp on about beating Man United but we were fortunate to have some decent players at the time and it doesn’t take a lot for a team to get fired up to play Man United!

We’ve got the right appointment now, talks sense and I believe that if we had had Pearson in charge during that Carabao Cup season we wouldn’t have totally capitulated, we would have gone up.

If a team at the top of the league gets thrashed 6-0 then there is something seriously wrong with the way they are being managed. Johnson could do nothing to stop the flow of goals because he hasn’t got a clue when it comes to in-game management. He just stands there like a muppet.

Some people need to take off the rose-tinted specs when it comes to Johnson’s reign.

Edited by Gert Mare
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2 hours ago, IAmNick said:

Is it? It's all relative to the clubs stature in the league surely.

Sunderland fired their manager before last when they were in 6th, and he had over a 50% win rate as well.

Yeah, I think it is. You can argue they shouldn't have sacked Jack Ross. Even if you think they did the right thing, at least he had one entire pre-season and season. LJ didn't even get that. 

They went into Saturday top of the league.

They had lost one other league game since November.

The previous month, he was Manager of Month, taking 14pts from 18 and extending an unbeaten league run to nine games.

They have the division's top goalscorer who is a player LJ signed for peanuts. 

I disagree anything is relative to 'stature' of club. To team and squad strength, budget yeah. Maybe you could argue Sunderland have strongest first team squad but I think Wigan, Ipswich and Rotherham would probably have something to say about that. Sunderland's recent history suggests they are exactly in pyramid where they should be. So the measure he might have been doing badly in is 'relative to fan expectations'. But those expectations are insane. 

Relative to the other teams in league; relative to Sunderland's recent history, LJ was doing a good job. A sticky January of 2 losses, including one bad defeat, and he gets the boot. I still think its incredibly harsh. 

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2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

To those still not getting why Sunderland acted as they did, let's put in terms you may understand.

There are two types in life: those who pay to take their perfectly performing cars in for service and those who think it wiser to save money and act only when the warning lights appear. They're easy to distinguish, the former putting miles very quickly between themselves and the latter who await rescue on the hard shoulder.

There are two positions a light switch can be in. On or off.

This information tells me nothing about when to sack a football manager 

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42 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

At the same time, if we'd released Pearson after 6 months - as a number of fans were asking for - it would've been a big mistake. 

Generally I’d say these were extremely knee jerk posters who didn’t / wouldn’t understand the plight of the club despite it being spelled out to them. With LJ most people gave him a fair crack I’d say (of course there were always the ones who hated the appointment from the start given his perceived past in some quarters) but after a couple of seasons of the bluff and bluster and the tombola, and the throwing players under the bus and lack of personal responsibility,  people started to tire of him.  Then the further it went on the more toxic it became.  He should’ve gone well before he did and imho he was very lucky to get such a huge job as Sunderland, but he was never ever going to be afforded anywhere near the time he was here.  

Edited by lenred
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25 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

comparing spending from different eras is entirely irrelevant, if you compare our net spending with that of our rivals, it was never more than mid-table.

If you look at our perceived “rivals”, or in fact smaller clubs, one or more of them finished above us each season.  We never won the mini-group.  Of the Teams who got promoted around the time we did, one of them always finished above us.

Johnson did ok, good stuff, bad stuff.

The sacking at Sunderland is crazy from the outside looking in.  But maybe it was “top two” or you’re gone, and with the two team above them creating a little gap and with games in hand, they knee-jerked.  League One is incredibly competitive this season, you just need a run of 4/5 wins in 6 and you can position yourselves nicely.

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39 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

It got us four consecutive seasons of Championship league position improvement, and even when that run ended we still finished a very respectable 12th. Three top-half finishes in a row. So he helped establish us a Championship club and gave us a firm base from which to kick on.

His time here was far from disastrous, we enjoyed some great moments during his tenure (cup run in particular), and his win percentage - without the benefit of any time in the easier League One - compares favourably with any manager in our living memory. And before anyone says "but look how much money he was given" - comparing spending from different eras is entirely irrelevant, if you compare our net spending with that of our rivals, it was never more than mid-table.

I think LJ left at the right time. But personally I think he is worthy of a little more respect than he often gets.

I'm not denying that, I sat there during all  those protracted losing runs in the vain hope that sooner or later, it'll be our turn to excell. Both Leeds and Sheffield United became the best sides in the championship without the Benefit of parachute payments, but hay what a crazy comparison, little old us expecting something more than being bang average..

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5 hours ago, Robbored said:

And exactly the same when he left.

Sure Sunderland are third but LJ was sacked after his team got stuffed 6-0 - now that kind of result is relatively commonplace throughout the leagues and managers don’t usually get sacked on the back of it.  LJ getting relived of his duties suggests to me that there were other behind the scenes going’s on. Maybe the players weren’t on board the LJ train and possibly his man management skills were the same as his dads and that what’s really lies behind him getting the elbow…………:dunno:

I have some sympathy for him tho - he’s still living in the shadow of his father and trying desperately to become a success on his own back and so far he’s failed miserably.

You have to ask the question where does he go from here? (no haircut 100 jokes please) as it's difficult to see that anyone would be beating down his door after this latest relative failure though their position in the league would at first glance make you think they were doing all right.

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1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

Didn't we only have something like 19 players when he took over - we were a mess. And saying "Oh, he had the double winning squad" - that's the League 1 double, the gap between L1 and the Championship is huge.

The squad comment is right, tho', yes, we were a mess - but I already acknowledged that this time had come here. And I'm not sure that he was entirely to blame for the squad - he was a young manager, with no experience of managing at this level, and possibly influenced too much by others.

I'm not saying he was a rip-roaring success here, but saying he was useless from day one is just nonsense.

The gap between the League 1 and the Championship is certainly big, but we didn’t just stumble across the line when we were promoted, we absolutely walked it and with quality football too.  It’s not unusual for teams with that momentum to do well when they get up, as GJ proved and with arguably an inferior squad.

As for squad size, yes the numbers were on the low side, but the quality was certainly there and many from that squad are still playing at a higher level.

He had the core of a great squad there, but rather than building on it, it was completely torn apart for no apparent reason (unless SL just decided to cash in) and were mainly replaced with mediocrity.

I don’t think people are claiming he’s useless, but I honestly believe he has a far higher opinion of his own ability than his record would suggest and some fans continue to believe he has more about him than he actually produces

Take out several months when we were flying and playing great football in 2017, I look back at his time at City as some of the least exciting dross I’ve had to endure in well over 50 years of following City.

For me, his time here will live on in my memory as a time of stagnation and massive waste and best wiped out of the memory as soon as possible, with the exception of the cup run.

 

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7 minutes ago, pillred said:

You have to ask the question where does he go from here? (no haircut 100 jokes please) as it's difficult to see that anyone would be beating down his door after this latest relative failure though their position in the league would at first glance make you think they were doing all right.

Exactly. So it’s not a failure, just a blip. Harshly treated and will soon be hired again, I’d guess.

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44 minutes ago, lenred said:

Generally I’d say these were extremely knee jerk posters who didn’t / wouldn’t understand the plight of the club despite it being spelled out to them. With LJ most people gave him a fair crack I’d say (of course there were always the ones who hated the appointment from the start given his perceived past in some quarters) but after a couple of seasons of the bluff and bluster and the tombola, and the throwing players under the bus and lack of personal responsibility,  people started to tire of him.  Then the further it went on the more toxic it became.  He should’ve gone well before he did and imho he was very lucky to get such a huge job as Sunderland, but he was never ever going to be afforded anywhere near the time he was here.  

 

Huge as in they have been big in the past and still have a decent fanbase - let's face it, what the **** else is there to do in Sunderland - but not huge in that they've not been successful for some time and if size of stadium determined your finish, we'd be above Fulham and Boro would win the Championship. 

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2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

To those still not getting why Sunderland acted as they did, let's put in terms you may understand.

There are two types in life: those who pay to take their perfectly performing cars in for service and those who think it wiser to save money and act only when the warning lights appear. They're easy to distinguish, the former putting miles very quickly between themselves and the latter who await rescue on the hard shoulder.

What about me - I don't drive?

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18 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

As for squad size, yes the numbers were on the low side, but the quality was certainly there and many from that squad are still playing at a higher level.

It's what - 6 years since LJ joined? Of the squad he inherited you could make a case, 6 years later, for all of the following to start in a City side next week:

Ayling, Flint, Korey, Luke Freeman, Marlon, Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan

That's not a bad inheritance is it?! 

As supporters we have been far too tolerant of mediocrity. Cotts approach wasn't and it worked in League One. If he needed to be replaced - and perhaps he did - it needed to be by someone with experience and the same ruthless approach. Not a friend of the family learning on the job.

Interesting to read the Sunderland forums in the context of tolerance of mediocrity. Some might call their attitude 'entitlement' but I'd say that most of the more vitriolic posters are calling out the mediocre and expecting something better - because they know what that looks like. Would be better if there was more of that at Ashton Gate.

Edited by Red Exile
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8 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

It's what - 6 years since LJ joined? Of the squad he inherited you could make a case, 6 years later, for all of the following to start in a City side next week:

Ayling, Flint, Korey, Luke Freeman, Marlon, Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan

That's not a bad inheritance is it?! 

Completely agree RE and even after 6 years they could certainly still do a job and have more than proven their ability.

Our problems certainly weren’t all down to LJ that’s for sure,  but I still can’t fathom how he’s still held in such high regard by some people, with how ordinary his managerial career has actually been.  

I can’t help thinking of the Emporer’s new clothes when I think of LJ!

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"People harp on about beating Man United but we were fortunate to have some decent players at the time and it doesn’t take a lot for a team to get fired up to play Man United!"

 

Fail Oh No GIF by The Great British Bake Off

**** me I've heard it all now

 

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24 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

It's what - 6 years since LJ joined? Of the squad he inherited you could make a case, 6 years later, for all of the following to start in a City side next week:

Ayling, Flint, Korey, Luke Freeman, Marlon, Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan

That's not a bad inheritance is it?! 

As supporters we have been far too tolerant of mediocrity. Cotts approach wasn't and it worked in League One. If he needed to be replaced - and perhaps he did - it needed to be by someone with experience and the same ruthless approach. Not a friend of the family learning on the job.

Interesting to read the Sunderland forums in the context of tolerance of mediocrity. Some might call their attitude 'entitlement' but I'd say that most of the more vitriolic posters are calling out the mediocre and expecting something better - because they know what that looks like. Would be better if there was more of that at Ashton Gate.

….. oh and yes, I agree we are way too tolerent of mediocrity at the Gate, which is most likely why we settle for it far too easily and regularly

The mindset of being satisfied to finish ubove the Sags really isn’t going to see us kick on and definitely won’t encourage a genuine push for the Prem.  Hopefully under NP, we’ll be aiming higher ?

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2 hours ago, B1ackbird said:

People could argue we gave him more than enough time, and where did it get us???

I'm not interested in the "Lets all bad mouth LJ bandwagon"  it's so easy?   I thought he did an ok job, including a Cup semi final and some great games.........he also brought in some brilliant players in like Webster, Brownhill etc, and also established us as a Chanpionship side?    The financial mess was mostly Ashton IMHO.  PS.  And thanks LJ for having the foresight for recruiting one of the best young players in the Championship in HNM, before you left.....the massive fee we eventually get for him will be a great help?   .     

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At least I don’t feel City are the biggest joke in The EFL anymore. 
 

Top six touching distance of top two. And he’s fired! Nuts!

Thats messed up my Saturday evening checking to see if Sunderland had lost.  I’ll just have to go back to not giving a toss about the third division rubbish!

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48 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

At least I don’t feel City are the biggest joke in The EFL anymore. 
 

Top six touching distance of top two. And he’s fired! Nuts!

Thats messed up my Saturday evening checking to see if Sunderland had lost.  I’ll just have to go back to not giving a toss about the third division rubbish!

Yeah I was beginning to hope they’d go up. Be funny if they slid down the table now.

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4 hours ago, Selred said:

I thought actually that was one of Gary's strong points! Let's be honest we weren't tactically Brazil, we had a lot of grifters fighting for the shirt under GJ.

So that explains why GJ was sacked after senior players went to SL refusing to play for him any longer after the shocking brawl at Argyle?

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15 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

If cotts is going to be lauded as a ‘double winner’, then Johnson deserves credit for an EFL trophy. 

Some of the replies on this thread are oddly personal. The Lee Johnson years didn’t come close to other, genuine horrors of the past. Yes, he was given time and money, and at our worst we were drab, but at our best we could be scintillating. 

His era had excitement and some of the loftiest heights we experienced in the previous decade. Compare this to other managers of the last 10-20 years who barely even left with a memorable win on their city CV. 
 

The truth is, there is, was, and always will be, some kind of strange personal vendetta against Lee Johnson from sections of our fan base. I don’t understand it, you don’t know the man. He was the manager of your football team, but some of you have such deeply personal character assessments that you can’t possibly be basing solely on that? 
 

It became personal to me when he destroyed my love of watching us play, when he claimed his love for my club, after saying the same about Oldham and Barnsley, when he thought he was the high and mighty, and none of us watching were worthy of understanding the game.

The strange thing is that I quite liked him as a player, always playing it simple, keeping the ball, giving it to players who were far more talented than him. 

But as a coach/manager he thinks he is some kind of inimitable expert, that must be looked up too. His after match interviews are farcical and pathetic, talking down to people who just watched 90 minutes of sheer shite, by trying to tell them they didn’t understand what they were watching.

No other Championship club would have gone anywhere near him ( someone give me one reason why they would of? ) when SL hired him. He had done nothing to warrant coming here, except being a mate of the owners son.

Yes, it’s personal, i and many others have been involved with football for 50 years plus, one thing I don’t need is someone who isn’t very good at his job, trying to tell me what I’m watching. 

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