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Sunderland fans loving POMO’s and USP’s


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1 minute ago, Super said:

Because it was the good old days! You know the days when we used to attack, have shots on goal, score goals and win games.

Got to be honest, my memory of the first half of the 2015/16 season is slightly different to that

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5 minutes ago, Super said:

Because it was the good old days! You know the days when we used to attack, have shots on goal, score goals and win games.

Ah! the good old days under Danny Wilson...................:rofl2br:

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We were in terrible form and the fans were not happy- I'm conflicted on the end of Cotts, part of me thinks it was needed and part of me isn't sure. Seem to recall the row between fan and Cotts after the Preston game?

He was refusing to fill his bench, there were some reasonable loanees- I'm wondering if a season of consolidation until the income grew properly in 2016/17 might have been in order, and then Cotts might have benefited from that extra income in the transfer market.

One eyed revisionists such as NickJ though...

I very much suspect the unofficial arrival of Ashton in Dec 2015 (officially appointed in January), to prepare his sacking might’ve caused the flip / row.  Especially when SOD and Burt, then Cotts and Burt had chucked all Ashton’s 2012 Recruitment stuff in the bin.  Cotts knew he was a gonner.  One day I’m gonna stalk him at Millennium Square and ask him!!! 🤣🤣🤣

Pretty sly from SL to sack Cotts by text (allegedly).

Pretty sly from SL to sack Cotts the evening he’d done his afternoon pre-match presser.

Pretty sly from SL to appoint Ashton (officially) two days later.

There is still a 2012 Ashton recommendation in the Recruitment Analysis team, and a mate of Jon Lansdowns too, who I understand has had a variety of jobs until they found one they could hide him in.

Edited by Davefevs
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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

Define achievements? He saved us from relegation and turned us into a solid Championship side, challenging in and around the play offs.

He got us our best cup run in 30 years, beating the biggest club in the country and going toe to toe with the best team in the world at the time over 2 legs. We played some of the best football I've ever seen from City, especially when you consider the level we were at (Cotts team was fantastic, but it was L1 football)

The end was shit, and it was probably the right time for him to go, but it's nonsense to say he didn't achieve anything here.

The cup run was fantastic and we will remember for many years to come. I think Lee stayed too long to both the detriment to us and also to him. His stock was high and maybe that was the time for him to consider his next move / opportunity. I think him staying resulted in negative feelings towards him from sections of the crowd. Lee did a lot of good here , yes he was backed financially but we’ve turned into a stable championship club, unfortunately we’ve since gone backwards. I fear that Holden won’t help people remember the positives, we’ve replaced Lee with his assistant and the football hasn’t changed , in many ways the ghost of Johnson hangs over the club. If we’d replaced externally I think people may look on his tenure more positively 

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11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Cretin ?  Really?  Is that necessary? 

It's sad how people talk about him

He didn't do much wrong here except talk a bit of nonsense and ultimately the football went a bit stale, as it does with every manager at every club in the world at some point.

As a person, he's not done anything to make him a "cretin". He's a decent bloke who worked bloody hard to at least TRY and get success for this club. If he outstayed his welcome that's not his fault, it's the people above him

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25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The ‘breath of fresh air’ referred to meant to me not necessarily  the appointment of Deano but his two assistants in Simpson and Downing who are both experienced coaches with different ideas and methods. Under LJ coaching had become stale and lacked innovation.

I don’t think Deano will relegate us but mid table mediocrity is the best we can expect this season.

Reaching a bit there. In that context, there’s no way ‘breath of fresh air’ meant two obscure assistants.

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16 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The ‘breath of fresh air’ referred to meant to me not necessarily  the appointment of Deano but his two assistants in Simpson and Downing who are both experienced coaches with different ideas and methods. Under LJ coaching had become stale and lacked innovation.

I don’t think Deano will relegate us but mid table mediocrity is the best we can expect this season.

I don't think LJ coaching lacked innovation...it was more likely the opposite. He overcomplicated things, then got muddled, trying to incorporate different methods. In the process it got completely confusing...you could see it in the players...they were frozen, playing without freedom. Then after losses, pressure mounted. That made it even worse...they literally couldn't make a pass and many went hiding not wanting the ball. 

For me, it all started to go pear shape when we signed Famara. He looked to become more physical with more presence. It had a knock on effect...he tried to play the same way with a high press and energy, but didn't work. 

Then the experimenting started...buying 'clubs in the bag' for every scenario. 

We became a confused mis mash of different methods. Neither here nor there.

And we are still that way. 

I can see shape and organisation when defending...although we don't carry it out very well.

Going forward...it's all over the place. Its a guessing game. No clear direction.

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27 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

I worked in Tyneside for a while, and the Mackams know there football, trust me.

They won’t be taken in by all his bullsh*t for long from that cretin. How the heck did he last so long at City. Oh yeh, the CEO and owner loved all the bullsh*t. Quite a few on here did also.

If my memory is right, Cotts wanted some £££s for transfer targets he ID’d and got a NO, so Cotts played politics with SL and the rest is history.

Poor old DH has inherited the mess. Major clear out coming this summer IMO.

Excuse me for not being overly excited about the major clear out and new set of players on three year contracts who are desperate to learn from DH. Give it a year and we'll be stuck with a further bunch of not-good-enough players with years left on their contract playing under, I suspect, a new manager desperate to be rid of them.

14 minutes ago, Super said:

Because it was the good old days! You know the days when we used to attack, have shots on goal, score goals and win games.

And, in the championship, consistently lose!

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11 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

It's sad how people talk about him

He didn't do much wrong here except talk a bit of nonsense and ultimately the football went a bit stale, as it does with every manager at every club in the world at some point.

As a person, he's not done anything to make him a "cretin". He's a decent bloke who worked bloody hard to at least TRY and get success for this club. If he outstayed his welcome that's not his fault, it's the people above him

A bit of nonsense ?

Buckets of Bluff I’d suggest

Might have helped if he had stuck to basics, not constantly promoted himself , not talked to fans like they couldn’t ever hope to understand the game, yet he was the font of all knowledge and thinking  , not thrown players under the bus on tv or radio....

And not sneered at other managers who achieved more at a level than he could ever dream of ....

 

 

Might have made him a bit more palatable

Edited by Sheltons Army
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1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

Define achievements? He saved us from relegation and turned us into a solid Championship side, challenging in and around the play offs.

He got us our best cup run in 30 years, beating the biggest club in the country and going toe to toe with the best team in the world at the time over 2 legs. We played some of the best football I've ever seen from City, especially when you consider the level we were at (Cotts team was fantastic, but it was L1 football)

The end was shit, and it was probably the right time for him to go, but it's nonsense to say he didn't achieve anything here.

To be fair, you’d struggle to find *any* manager who couldn’t achieve a mid table finish if he was allowed to increase the wage bill from 13m to 37m. When you look at it like that, I’m not sure establishing us as a mid table side is quite so impressive. 

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1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

To be fair, you’d struggle to find *any* manager who couldn’t achieve a mid table finish if he was allowed to increase the wage bill from 13m to 37m. When you look at it like that, I’m not sure establishing us as a mid table side is quite so impressive. 

Ben Garner "Hold my beer"......

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27 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

It's sad how people talk about him

He didn't do much wrong here except talk a bit of nonsense and ultimately the football went a bit stale, as it does with every manager at every club in the world at some point.

As a person, he's not done anything to make him a "cretin". He's a decent bloke who worked bloody hard to at least TRY and get success for this club. If he outstayed his welcome that's not his fault, it's the people above him

Maybe this is why no decent manager wants to come here?!

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18 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't think LJ coaching lacked innovation...it was more likely the opposite. He overcomplicated things, then got muddled, trying to incorporate different methods. In the process it got completely confusing...you could see it in the players...they were frozen, playing without freedom. Then after losses, pressure mounted. That made it even worse...they literally couldn't make a pass and many went hiding not wanting the ball. 

For me, it all started to go pear shape when we signed Famara. He looked to become more physical with more presence. It had a knock on effect...he tried to play the same way with a high press and energy, but didn't work. 

Then the experimenting started...buying 'clubs in the bag' for every scenario. 

We became a confused mis mash of different methods. Neither here nor there.

And we are still that way. 

I can see shape and organisation when defending...although we don't carry it out very well.

Going forward...it's all over the place. Its a guessing game. No clear direction.

Nailed it for me Spudski.

Like many, many people I was underwhelmed when Johnson came in. But, after a while and reading a few things , I was impressed with his eagerness to study and learn other tactics and styles. I thought he doing the right thing with his 1% and all that looking at everything trying to improve. The problem came when he was unable to pick out the few bits, the best bits, the things he could use to make an effective side. He got confused and tried to throw everything at it and passed that confusion onto the players. Totally agree with you that they ended up hiding. We are struggling to put that right still. 
This is where I was hoping for an experienced man to come in, shake it up but with simple straight forward ideas. What we have (seemingly) is LJ 2.0.
The Club head to toe , 2 assistants apart, is the same as it was 18 months ago, but the coach has 2/3 years less experience and knowledge.

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12 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

To be fair, you’d struggle to find *any* manager who couldn’t achieve a mid table finish if he was allowed to increase the wage bill from 13m to 37m. When you look at it like that, I’m not sure establishing us as a mid table side is quite so impressive. 

Well no-one else managed it in 40 years. And whilst football income and expenditure is very relative, previous incumbents weren’t unable to splash cash when necessary.

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9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We were in terrible form and the fans were not happy- I'm conflicted on the end of Cotts, part of me thinks it was needed and part of me isn't sure. Seem to recall the row between fan and Cotts after the Preston game?

He was refusing to fill his bench, there were some reasonable loanees- I'm wondering if a season of consolidation until the income grew properly in 2016/17 might have been in order, and then Cotts might have benefited from that extra income in the transfer market.

One eyed revisionists such as NickJ though...

Wasn't that because the fan was giving Mark Little abuse and Cotts was standing up for him? I have heard that mentioned somewhere, I could be wrong.

I suspect Cotts knew the writing was on the wall from the summer onwards… It's difficult to glean absolute perspective as an outsider but I think both SL and SC could have behaved differently/better. Perhaps SL was intent on bringing in MA anyway…?

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Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

Wasn't that because the fan was giving Mark Little abuse and Cotts was standing up for him? I have heard that mentioned somewhere, I could be wrong.

I suspect Cotts knew the writing was on the wall from the summer onwards… It's difficult to glean absolute perspective as an outsider but I think both SL and SC could have behaved differently/better. Perhaps SL was intent on bringing in MA anyway…?

That was as I understood it too.  Think some fans were telling the fan to not be a knob.

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2 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Well no-one else managed it in 40 years. And whilst football income and expenditure is very relative, previous incumbents weren’t unable to splash cash when necessary.

Are you suggesting anyone else had even half the spending power that LJ had? Apples and Oranges. 

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 Cotterill gave us a fantastic season and promotion. Johnson gave us an unforgettable cup run and established us as a respected Championship club. Both had their strengths. Both had their weaknesses. It unravelled for both, in different ways, towards the end. 
I don’t get why for so many people liking one seems to require belittling the achievements of the other. Between the two of them the club progressed in a way no other did and in a way we certainly didn’t manage when we were chopping and changing managers every year with Pulis, SOD, McInnes etc etc

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That was as I understood it too.  Think some fans were telling the fan to not be a knob.

That was merely a convenient point to pull the trigger Dave

Cotts was already marked for the firing squad by then, and 

He hadn’t done himself any favours in the preceding weeks and the outcome was inevitable , Like you (And probably as a similar personality ) I can’t blame him for feeling let down after what he’d done, but it was only going to rapidly end one way.

 

Its what we did next that really irks me

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10 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Are you suggesting anyone else had even half the spending power that LJ had? Apples and Oranges. 

To be fair, nobody in our history had had the spending power Cotts had with us. 
 

We could use the spending argument with Cotts and O’Driscoll as well. Footballs changed massively over the last 5 years, with transfer fees rising massively. That increase coincided with LJs reign, it’s not really a stick to beat him with

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7 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Are you suggesting anyone else had even half the spending power that LJ had? Apples and Oranges. 

Not on ££s, of course not, and I’ve made that point. But previous incumbents were able to go out and sign the likes of Akinbiyi, Thorpe, Anderson, Andy Cole, Dziekanowski, David James, and so on. All relatively big signings for the time. You’d have to go back to the days of Des Williams and Terry Cooper to say that we were a ‘poor’ relation to most other sides in our league. (and ironically in those days made some fantastic signings cheaply and had some great times!)

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52 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Reaching a bit there. In that context, there’s no way ‘breath of fresh air’ meant two obscure assistants.

They were working with U19 England I think so not exactly mugs the their profession.

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4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

To be fair, nobody in our history had had the spending power Cotts had with us. 
 

We could use the spending argument with Cotts and O’Driscoll as well. Footballs changed massively over the last 5 years, with transfer fees rising massively. That increase coincided with LJs reign, it’s not really a stick to beat him with

Exactly this. In the third tier, we used to be able to go out every summer and sign the best players from the league that season. Nowadays in the Championship we couldn’t even dream of that. 

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Both LJ and SC did good jobs at City. I think if you forget LJ's personality, you'd have to say he did an 'ok' job over 4 years, made us steady in the League, but without being spectacular. 

Some think our fans are fickle and nasty to Managers, i'd say we're quite pleasant compared to many many other clubs, seems Sunderland fans have figured LJ out, already and I can't say I'm not surprised. Like they have said, he has achieved nothing and speaks a lot without saying much but utter drivel

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54 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't think LJ coaching lacked innovation...it was more likely the opposite. He overcomplicated things, then got muddled, trying to incorporate different methods. In the process it got completely confusing...you could see it in the players...they were frozen, playing without freedom. Then after losses, pressure mounted. That made it even worse...they literally couldn't make a pass and many went hiding not wanting the ball. 

For me, it all started to go pear shape when we signed Famara. He looked to become more physical with more presence. It had a knock on effect...he tried to play the same way with a high press and energy, but didn't work. 

Then the experimenting started...buying 'clubs in the bag' for every scenario. 

We became a confused mis mash of different methods. Neither here nor there.

And we are still that way. 

I can see shape and organisation when defending...although we don't carry it out very well.

Going forward...it's all over the place. Its a guessing game. No clear direction.

Insightful as always spudski. A top post.

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29 minutes ago, Robbored said:

They were working with U19 England I think so not exactly mugs the their profession.

Sure, but in the context of the interview being quoted it was clear Lansdown wasn’t implying the assistants bring the ‘breath of fresh air’. Would be very bizarre.

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Ah! the good old days under Danny Wilson...................:rofl2br:

Yep the days when we where on the edge of our seats the days we had atmosphere at the gate The days we got to finals seeing younger players in the team seeing tin mans left foot Murray banging in the goals etc etc ok we did miss out but it was certainly better than the dross that's been on show the last 3.5 years and how much have we spent..Quite frankly what's on show now is utter garbage.

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I don't think LJ coaching lacked innovation...it was more likely the opposite.

That's true he measured the bleedin grass and i was there at Sunderland when he did it.

Innovator? Tosser more like.

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