Port Said Red Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 What happened to this rule? I thought it was the case that the penalty was considered punishment enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Port Said Red said: What happened to this rule? I thought it was the case that the penalty was considered punishment enough. Double jeaporady?? Eh ? Absolutely no relevance to their penalty It’s with regards to a foul and whether the offender attempted to win the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Port Said Red said: What happened to this rule? I thought it was the case that the penalty was considered punishment enough. It still is a rule, if you commit a foul and deny a clear goalscoring opportunity, but are making a genuine attempt to play the ball. In this case, a hand cannot be a genuine attempt to play the ball. In the Luiz and Bednarek cases in the Premier league, the referees deemed them also not to be making a genuine attempt for the ball. Basically, its subjective, sometimes. Not for handball though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 It's just refreshing to see one of our players come off because of a red card rather than another injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 I’d like to defend the OP here because they’ve made a bit of a point here. Handball? Yes. Penalty? Yes. But it’s about intent. For me it’s not like he’s just on the line and stuck his arm out. He’s almost thrown whatever he can at it and it’s hit his hand. With VAR having the ability to slow it down you can see it hits his hand, cool, fine, pen, but should he really be sent off when this is being decided not at real time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 **** VAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie andrews Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 No way is that deliberate handball.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted February 10, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, archie andrews said: No way is that deliberate handball.... Doesn't have to be, but stopped the ball going in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexukhc Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Thing that gets me is no one was screaming handball and everyone just got on with it, knew it was accidental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Just checked the FA website as wasn't sure myself and it says; SENDING-OFF OFFENCES A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area) So was a red card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 I don’t think VAR should be used unless all participants have it equally, and in the FA cup they don’t. Therefore it should only be used at Semi Final stage at Wembley and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrob Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 No, as a referee you have to ask yourself if the player has deliberately handled the ball in an effort to prevent a goal or goal scoring opportunity. There was clearly no attempt to deliberately prevent a goal. Mawson threw himself across the goal and the ball struck his hand. So should not have been a red card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Jeopardy you say...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, redrob said: No, as a referee you have to ask yourself if the player has deliberately handled the ball in an effort to prevent a goal or goal scoring opportunity. There was clearly no attempt to deliberately prevent a goal. Mawson threw himself across the goal and the ball struck his hand. So should not have been a red card. That is not the law though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAman08 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, redrob said: No, as a referee you have to ask yourself if the player has deliberately handled the ball in an effort to prevent a goal or goal scoring opportunity. There was clearly no attempt to deliberately prevent a goal. Mawson threw himself across the goal and the ball struck his hand. So should not have been a red card. I don’t think deliberate comes into play anymore. I said in another thread that its tough times for defenders and the handball rule is another way it is a bit unfair on them. By the letter of the law it is probably a sending off but you will Never convince me a defender should be sent off for that. His arm has to go somewhere. He is lunging so his arm will be out a bit for balance. He is 4-5 yards away and you won’t see many more powerful strikers than that. It may have deflected off his thigh onto his hand. So yea not sure what he can really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 See above my previous comment but let me add: by rule, red card With var and the concept of intention combined with the benefit of slowing things down to fractions of a second? CHANGE THE RULE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dREDful Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, RobArnold10 said: See above my previous comment but let me add: by rule, red card With var and the concept of intention combined with the benefit of slowing things down to fractions of a second? CHANGE THE RULE Intention is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Double jeopardy more applied to things like being last man didn't it? For fouls inside the edge of the box where a penalty is deemed enough. Mawson's being basically on the line blocking it from going in. Personal opinion its incredibly harsh if not deemed deliberate as a penalty and yellow should be enough punishment but that's the law, if deliberate then yes a red but it should be like a Suarez handball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCGav Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Does the red carry into the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 How far up the arm constitutes hand ball. Up to the elbow, between elbow and shoulder? Martial in the match last night quite clearly controlled the ball with his upper arm (outside the box) but the officials took no notice. I'm sure that penalties have been given for using the upper arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, grifty said: Just checked the FA website as wasn't sure myself and it says; SENDING-OFF OFFENCES A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area) So was a red card. It's the most ridiculous rule in the game. It's now nigh on impossible to defend properly in the 18 yard box without giving away a penalty. I can understand a penalty...but a sending off is never justified for an accidental hand ball. I've not understood why coaches haven't adopted a more direct tactic of getting the ball in the box as much as possible. At some point you'll get a handball. Probably more likely than build up play trying to find an opening and goal scoring opportunity. The rule in theory promotes more direct football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobArnold10 Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 27 minutes ago, dREDful said: Intention is irrelevant. Congratulations, you missed the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, RobArnold10 said: I’d like to defend the OP here because they’ve made a bit of a point here. Handball? Yes. Penalty? Yes. But it’s about intent. For me it’s not like he’s just on the line and stuck his arm out. He’s almost thrown whatever he can at it and it’s hit his hand. With VAR having the ability to slow it down you can see it hits his hand, cool, fine, pen, but should he really be sent off when this is being decided not at real time? Penalty yes. Red never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wybmadwity Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 ... and banned for the next match, to the random advantage of whoever that happens to be and to the disadvantage to all other teams. It's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megansdad Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 am sure I saw a Sheffield hand push the ball away in the 1st half from a corner.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrob Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 28 minutes ago, spudski said: It's the most ridiculous rule in the game. It's now nigh on impossible to defend properly in the 18 yard box without giving away a penalty. I can understand a penalty...but a sending off is never justified for an accidental hand ball. I've not understood why coaches haven't adopted a more direct tactic of getting the ball in the box as much as possible. At some point you'll get a handball. Probably more likely than build up play trying to find an opening and goal scoring opportunity. The rule in theory promotes more direct football. Intersring that in the first half Ampadu handled the ball allowing, him to then clear their lines, but that was not deemed to be a handball offence, despite it preventing Dhiedhou a chance to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, RedM said: I don’t think VAR should be used unless all participants have it equally, and in the FA cup they don’t. Therefore it should only be used at Semi Final stage at Wembley and beyond. I think that is only the case if it is a 2 legged tie - e.g. League Cup Semi Final. Otherwise it just depends on where the tie is played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, redrob said: Intersring that in the first half Ampadu handled the ball allowing, him to then clear their lines, but that was not deemed to be a handball offence, despite it preventing Dhiedhou a chance to shoot. at first,i thought it hit his arm twice,still not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 It was the correct decision. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrob Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 56 minutes ago, grifty said: That is not the law though... The rule book says it sending off offence when a player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off: denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area) The rule book defines a handball offence as being when a player does any of the following: deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball - definitely not scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper - definitely not after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately: scores in the opponents’ goal - definitely not creates a goal-scoring opportunity - definitely not touches the ball with their hand/arm when: the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger - questionable the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm - definitely not So the questionable aspect is the interpretation of what is meant hy 'unnaturally makes the body bigger.' My understanding of that from qualified referees is that this is not as clear cut as 'if it hits the arm its outside the cylinder of the body it is making the body bigger' but that the official has to consider what is a natural body position. Its why if a player was falling and put their arm down to break their fall a referee is guided to consider this as a natural body position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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