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Dean Holden Post Match


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15 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

There was one really touching bit where he says about how he has responded to challenges in his life. And we all know what he refers to.

There are two ways you can go. You can go under or you can find a way.

I really feel for the guy. Should never have been put in this position in the first place.

 

Spotted that too. Heart over head, give him a week. 4 points from Reading and Barnsley, build on it. Hard to see it happening I know, but I’d be buzzing for him and us.

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Genuinely sad for the guy. He’s decent, passionate and articulate. He’s prepared to take the criticism in an open and honest way.

 

However, he knew the monster that Ashton had created when he took the job. If he hadn’t taken the job under Ashton’s conditions, I’m pretty confident no one else would have. Ashton would then have needed to relinquish some of his power. So, Holden accepting the position maintained Ashton’s empire untouched., indeed, strengthend. We are where we are because of this.

The Club is a disaster, of a magnitude approaching the dark days. Forget the league position - that’ll soon change- we are in perilous state. 

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Its good to hear that he's a fighter and we'll come out of this by trying harder and that each player needs to be looking at themselves and trying harder, but...

...I wanted to hear more, I wanted him to say, we need to get back to basics, we need to be solid, we need to hold our shape, we need to be difficult to break down. Basically everything that we didn't do today.

So, how do we do that?

We do it by playing a formation that the players understand the most, isn't too gung ho, and plays as many players in their best positions. If we're missing a position i.e. left back, then we play one of our most experienced players there, providing we're not moving them out of their strongest position in the team. We play as many round pegs in round holes as we possibly can, and we look to protect the weaker areas of our team.

We've got to stop the rot this week, and we need stop it by being horrible to play against, and difficult to get through.

The proof of the pudding will be if the players do actually want to play for him this week.

As I said to friends before the kick off today, these next four games is potentially the beginning of the end, and after todays performance, it may be the end in less than 4 games!

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I actually felt sorry for Holden watching that post match interview; and that’s not a good thing to feel.

He looked like a rabbit in headlights; like some junior member of staff asked to give a presentation to the board on a subject they no little about, it was painful to watch.

He has always seemed like a really decent man and I think he really cares, but that isn’t the sole set of attributes needed to be a success.

I don’t blame him taking the job, who wouldn’t in that position, but I certainly blame Ashton, SL and JL. 

Clearly it will be an interesting few days now to see what happens. 

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24 minutes ago, chinapig said:

On the "honest Dean" point, he claimed we would play aggressive, front foot football and get in the opposition's faces. That appears to have been, shall we say, a less than honest claim.

Tbf that doesn’t make him dishonest. That’s clearly what he wants but he’s incapable of translating that to the players and getting them to do it

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22 minutes ago, Harry said:

Holden’s post match interviews are like something straight out of the Russel Osman “we can win this lads” playbook. 
 

There doesn’t appear to be any idea of how to tactically correct and effect a change. He’s from the school which says “if I tell the players to look in the mirror and show more passion” that should fire them up. 
 

He gives no thought to how his actual tactical actions affect players. Poor old Massengo was used in 4 different midfield roles today. He played Lansbury at DM inspite of him saying he hates playing there. Even when he brought Nagy & Baks on (2 players more naturally aligned to the DM role) he still played Lansbury behind them. 
He played a rookie who was until recently a CM, now a CB, at left wing back and offered him zero support - playing a 19 year old infront for protection and a league 1 (at best) defender inside him. That was Towler completely hung out to dry on debut. He’s our 7th choice left back. You simply can’t expose him like that. 
 

Dean would be better focussing on how he should manage his players better rather than telling them to “look in the mirror”. 
 

He is showing is exactly who he is - someone who is completely out of his depth. 

He strikes me as an English coach of the (very) old school. Never mind this namby pamby tactics stuff, passion is what matters.

And if LJ had told players to look in the mirror wouldn't he have been accused of throwing them under the bus?

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10 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I'm not a quitter is football speak for I want my pay off. Can't say I blame him, not his fault Ashton appointed him over candidates who were actually qualified for the job.

Totally agree ... no managers will walk anymore, knowing they’ll get £££ ... the only people who didn’t see this happening from the minute he was appointed was The owners and Ashton .... even Dean must have thought it was Win Win ... 

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56 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

If he goes I wish him well and hope he finds a job as a number 2, likely league  1 to gain some experience.

He's got 3 years experience already as a number 2 in the Championship already. Ultimately he either needs to go way down the ladder and prove himself as a manager from scratch or accept a career as part of a backroom team. From what we were told last summer - which I've no reason to think is wrong - he's got a good rapport with the players and seems to be well-thought of in the game so I see no reason why he won't find a new coaching role easily enough. But he's not going to get the experience to be a manager unless he takes another opportunity elsewhere, and I can't see him being offered another one above League Two at present. 

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27 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

There was one really touching bit where he says about how he has responded to challenges in his life. And we all know what he refers to.

There are two ways you can go. You can go under or you can find a way.

I really feel for the guy. Should never have been put in this position in the first place.

 

Brilliant post mate, read it just the same way and feel just the same.

A very sad state of affairs in a number of ways. 

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11 minutes ago, RedRock said:

The Club is a disaster, of a magnitude approaching the dark days. Forget the league position - that’ll soon change- we are in perilous state. 

No, not true.  The difference now is that we have a very rich owner and a lot of good young players, really good in some cases, and therefore something to build on for the future.  The problem is in the present, but don’t kid yourself that the club is in a perilous state.  What we need now is leadership, which seems to be sadly lacking.  The present structure clearly is not working, and what we need is a manager, but if we can get the club back up and running again, there is a lot to build on.

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5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Tbf that doesn’t make him dishonest. That’s clearly what he wants but he’s incapable of translating that to the players and getting them to do it

Which leaves a choice between dishonesty and incompetence. I agree it may be the latter. Perhaps he needs to learn to under promise and over deliver and to be honest with himself about his limitations.

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30 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

The general consensus is he’s a genuine top bloke, if he’s got any thing about him he’d walk, it was obvious today the players have downed tools ,he’d of seen this.

He's doing this for a living. If he gets sacked then he gets a year's pay, if he walks he gets nowt. Would you give away a year's money when you've got a family to keep going and no idea where your next job's coming from?

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4 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

It's a tough watch, if you've got any bit of compassion for a decent man.

Indeed...but he's not being paid to be a 'decent man'. There are any number of decent men in the world...he's paid to be a football manager...and he's not up to it at this level. Anyone with compassion for him would wish him to step away asap. He's been out of his depth from the day he was handed the responsibility. Sadly for him...and anyone who cares for the club.

6-0 is a pasting. We were awful today. A historic low.

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13 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He strikes me as an English coach of the (very) old school. Never mind this namby pamby tactics stuff, passion is what matters.

And if LJ had told players to look in the mirror wouldn't he have been accused of throwing them under the bus?

LJ wouldn’t have said the players, he’d have said “Taylor Moore/Zac Vyner needs to look himself in the mirror.” - even if Kalas had had a worse game. 

Don’t you recall when Magnússon was subbed on at 3-0 down and LJ singled him out for us losing 4-0?

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3 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Indeed...but he's not being paid to be a 'decent man'. There are any number of decent men in the world...he's paid to be a football manager...and he's not up to it at this level. Anyone with compassion for him would wish him to step away asap. He's been out of his depth from the day he was handed the responsibility. Sadly for him...and anyone who cares for the club.

6-0 is a pasting. We were awful today. A historic low.

He is, but that isn't really the point I was making. I was referring only to the bit where he talks about adversity in his own life. I found it really moving.

The rest, I'm with you on.

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Just now, Fordy62 said:

LJ wouldn’t have said the players, he’d have said “Taylor Moore/Zac Vyner needs to look himself in the mirror.” - even if Kalas had had a worse game. 

Don’t you recall when Magnússon was subbed on at 3-0 down and LJ singled him out for us losing 4-0?

Wasn’t that Ipswich in 2016/2017? I remember it. I really didn’t like that about Johnson. 

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53 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So does every other team!! 

They have little time, they have injuries, maybe not trying play as many inadequate youngsters as us - but whose fault is that??

All the other teams have little time to coach between games, just like us.

Difference is, what little coaching other teams do is done by people who know what they're doing

Not in numbers or games missed comparable to us they don't.

Agree with varied parts of your post but that section- not comparable to us. Even recalled loanees seemed to have got injured- and though it's not necessarily an excuse, when you do have injuries you have to restructure the team a bit and you lose that little more cohesion- and it's cumulative.

Mawson and Kalas could have been a fine partnership...

DaSilva and Paterson could have been a passable left side.

Hunt and Weimann  could have been a reasonable right side.

Martin and Weimann- for some games- could have been a useful partnership.

Could go on...sure there are many more examples.

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19 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Four rookies down the left hand side (Moore, Towler, Massengo, Semenyo) and two attacking midfielders in defensive midfield roles. Totally clueless and got the result the selection deserved....and I have haven't even mentioned Fam who is now on his 4th poor game on the spin.

Exactly this. He is tactically clueless.

Riley Towler has been in the squad for several weeks and only plays because reluctant left back Mariappa is total dogs in that position. Nothing of a master stroke at all.

How Diedhiou plays is beyond me.

He hasn't signed a contract. Can't trap wind and his tracking back is so woefull

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2 minutes ago, Swede said:

Exactly this. He is tactically clueless.

Riley Towler has been in the squad for several weeks and only plays because reluctant left back Mariappa is total dogs in that position. Nothing of a master stroke at all.

How Diedhiou plays is beyond me.

He hasn't signed a contract. Can't trap wind and his tracking back is so woefull

Fam’s performance since it became clear that he wasn’t going to get a big money move by the end of Jan have been awful.....let’s play Semenyo and Wells .... Fam was simply awful today and looks like he couldn’t care less 

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